Opinion by Dr. Tim Ball
I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. – Arthur Conan Doyle. (Sherlock Holmes)
Create The Facts You Want.
In a comment about the WUWT article “The Record of recent Man-made CO2 emissions: 1965-2013”, Pamela Gray, graphically but pointedly, summarized the situation.
When will we finally truly do the math? The anthropogenic only portion of atmospheric CO2, let alone China’s portion, does not have the cojones necessary to make one single bit of “weather” do a damn thing different. Take out just the anthropogenic CO2 and rerun the past 30 years of weather. The exact same weather pattern variations would have occurred. Or maybe because of the random nature of weather we would have had it worse. Or it could have been much better. Now do something really ridiculous and take out just China’s portion. I know, the post isn’t meant to paint China as the bad guy. But. Really? Really? All this for something so tiny you can’t find it? Not even in a child’s balloon?
The only quibble I have is that the amount illustrates the futility of the claims, as Gray notes, but the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are focused on trends and attribution. It must have a human cause and be steadily increasing, or, as they prefer – getting worse.
Narrowing the Focus
It’s necessary to revisit criticisms of CO2 levels created by the IPCC over the last several years. Nowadays, a measure of the accuracy of the criticisms, are the vehemence of the personal attacks designed to divert from the science and evidence.
From its inception, the IPCC focused on human production of CO2. It began with the definition of climate change, provided by the UNFCCC, as only those caused by humans. The goal was to prove their hypothesis that increase of atmospheric CO2 would cause warming. This required evidence that the level increased from pre-Industrial times, and would increase each year because of human industrial activity. How long before they start reducing the rate of CO2 increase to make it fit the declining temperatures? They are running out of guesses, 30 at latest count, to explain the continued lack of temperature increase now at 17 years and 10 months.
The IPCC makes the bizarre claim that up until 1950 human addition of CO2 was a minor driver of global temperature. After that over 90 percent of temperature increase is due to human CO2.
Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic GHG concentrations.
The claim that a fractional increase in CO2 from human sources, which is naturally only 4 percent of all greenhouse gases, become the dominant factor in just a couple of years is incredulous. This claim comes from computer models, which are the only place in the world where a CO2 increase causes a temperature increase. It depends on human production and atmospheric levels increasing. It assumes temperature continues to increase, as all three of IPCC scenario projections imply.
Their frustration is they control the CO2 data, but after the University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) began satellite global temperature data, control of temperature data was curtailed. It didn’t stop them completely, as disclosures by McIntyre, Watts, Goddard, the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition among others, illustrated. They all showed adjustments designed to enhance and emphasize higher modern temperatures.
Now they’re confronted with T. H. Huxley’s challenge,
The Great Tragedy of Science – the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.
This article examines how the modern levels of atmospheric CO2 were determined and controlled to fit the hypothesis. They may fit a political agenda, but they don’t fit nature’s agenda.
New Deductive Method; Create the Facts to Fit the Theory
Farhad Manjoo asked in True Enough: Learning To Live In A Post-fact Society,
“Why has punditry lately overtaken news? Why do lies seem to linger so long in the cultural subconscious even after they’ve been thoroughly discredited? And why, when more people than ever before are documenting the truth with laptops and digital cameras, does fact-free spin and propaganda seem to work so well?”
Manjoo’s comments apply to society in general, but are enhanced about climate science because of differing public abilities with regard to scientific issues. A large majority is more easily deceived.
Manjoo argues that people create facts themselves or find someone to produce them. Creating data is the only option in climate science because, as the 1999 NRC Report found, there is virtually none. A response to February 3, 1999 US National Research Council (NRC) Report on Climate Data said,
“Deficiencies in the accuracy, quality and continuity of the records place serious limitations on the confidence that can be placed in the research results.
The situation is worse today. The number of stations used is dramatically reduced and records adjusted to lower historic temperature data, which increases the gradient of the record. Lack of data for the oceans was recently identified.
“Two of the world’s premiere ocean scientists from Harvard and MIT have addressed the data limitations that currently prevent the oceanographic community from resolving the differences among various estimates of changing ocean heat content.”
Oceans are critical to CO2 levels because of their large sink or source capacity.
Data necessary to create a viable determination of climate mechanisms and thereby climate change, is completely inadequate. This applies especially to the structure of climate models. There is no data for at least 80 percent of the grids covering the globe, so they guess; it’s called parameterization. The 2007 IPCC Report notes,
Due to the limited resolutions of the models, many of these processes are not resolved adequately by the model grid and must therefore be parameterized. The differences between parameterizations are an important reason why climate model results differ.
Variable results occur because of inadequate data at the most basic level and subjective choices by the people involved.
The IPCC Produce The Human Production Numbers
In the 2001, IPCC Report identified 6.5 GtC (gigatons of carbon) from human sources. The figure rose to 7.5 GtC in the 2007 report and by 2010 it was 9.5 GtC. Where did they get these numbers? The answer is the IPCC has them produced and then vet them. In the FAQ section they ask, “How does the IPCC produce its Inventory Guidelines?”
Utilizing IPCC procedures, nominated experts from around the world draft the reports that are then extensively reviewed twice before approval by the IPCC.
They were called Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (SRES) until the 2013 Report, when they became Representative Concentration Pathways (RCP). In March 2001, John Daly reports Richard Lindzen referring to the SRES and the entire IPCC process including SRES as follows,
In a recent interview with James Glassman, Dr. Lindzen said that the latest report of the UN-IPCC (that he helped author), “was very much a children’s exercise of what might possibly happen” prepared by a “peculiar group” with “no technical competence.”
William Kininmonth, author of the insightful book “Climate Change: A Natural Hazard”, was former head of Australia’s National Climate Centre and their delegate to the WMO Commission for Climatology. He wrote the following in an email on the ClimateSceptics group page.
I was at first confused to see the RCP concept emerge in AR5. I have come to the conclusion that RCP is no more than a sleight of hand to confuse readers and hide absurdities in the previous approach.
You will recall that the previous carbon emission scenarios were supposed to be based on solid economic models. However, this basis was challenged by reputable economists and the IPCC economic modelling was left rather ragged and a huge question mark hanging over it.
I sense the RCP approach is to bypass the fraught economic modelling: prescribed radiation forcing pathways are fed into the climate models to give future temperature rise—if the radiation forcing plateaus at 8.5W/m2 sometime after 2100 then the global temperature rise will be 3C. But what does 8.5 W/m2 mean? Previously it was suggested that a doubling of CO2 would give a radiation forcing of 3.7 W/m2. To reach a radiation forcing of 7.4 W/m2 would thus require a doubling again—4 times CO2 concentration. Thus to follow RCP8.5 it is necessary for the atmospheric CO2 concentration equivalent to exceed 1120ppm after 2100.
We are left questioning the realism of a RCP 8.5 scenario. Is there any likelihood of the atmospheric CO2 reaching about 1120 ppm by 2100? IPCC has raised a straw man scenario to give a ‘dangerous’ global temperature rise of about 3C early in the 22nd century knowing full well that such a concentration has an extremely low probability of being achieved. But, of course, this is not explained to the politicians and policymakers. They are told of the dangerous outcome if the RCP8.5 is followed without being told of the low probability of it occurring.
One absurdity is replaced by another! Or have I missed something fundamental?[1]
No, nothing is missed! However, in reality, it doesn’t matter whether it changes anything; it achieves the goal of increasing CO2 and its supposed impact of global warming. Underpinning of IPCC climate science and the economics depends on accurate data and knowledge of mechanisms and that is not available.
We know there was insufficient weather data on which to construct climate models and the situation deteriorated as they eliminated weather stations, ‘adjusted’ them and then cherry-picked data. We know knowledge of mechanisms is inadequate because the IPCC WGI Science Report says so.
Unfortunately, the total surface heat and water fluxes (see Supplementary Material, Figure S8.14) are not well observed.
or
For models to simulate accurately the seasonally varying pattern of precipitation, they must correctly simulate a number of processes (e.g., evapotranspiration, condensation, transport) that are difficult to evaluate at a global scale.
Two critical situations were central to control of atmospheric CO2 levels. We know Guy Stewart Callendar, A British steam engineer, cherry-picked the low readings from 90,000 19th century atmospheric CO2 measures. This not only established a low pre-industrial level, but also altered the trend of atmospheric levels. (Figure 1)
Figure 1 (After Jaworowski; Trend lines added)
Callendar’s work was influential in the Gore generated claims of human induced CO2 increases. However, the most influential paper in the climate community, especially at CRU and the IPCC, was Tom Wigley’s 1983 paper “The pre-industrial carbon dioxide level.” (Climatic Change. 5, 315-320). I held seminars in my graduate level climate course about its validity and selectivity to establish a pre-industrial base line.
I wrote an obituary on learning of Becks untimely death.
I was flattered when he asked me to review one of his early papers on the historic pattern of atmospheric CO2 and its relationship to global warming. I was struck by the precision, detail and perceptiveness of his work and urged its publication. I also warned him about the personal attacks and unscientific challenges he could expect. On 6 November 2009 he wrote to me, “In Germany the situation is comparable to the times of medieval inquisition.” Fortunately, he was not deterred. His friend Edgar Gartner explained Ernst’s contribution in his obituary. “Due to his immense specialized knowledge and his methodical severity Ernst very promptly noticed numerous inconsistencies in the statements of the Intergovernmental Penal on Climate Change IPCC. He considered the warming of the earth’s atmosphere as a result of a rise of the carbon dioxide content of the air of approximately 0.03 to 0.04 percent as impossible. And it doubted that the curve of the CO2 increase noted on the Hawaii volcano Mauna Loa since 1957/58 could be extrapolated linear back to the 19th century.” (This is a translation from the German)
Beck was the first to analyze in detail the 19th century data. It was data collected for scientific attempts to measure precisely the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. It began in 1812, triggered by Priestly’s work on atmospheric oxygen, and was part of the scientific effort to quantify all atmospheric gases. There was no immediate political motive. Beck did not cherry-pick the results, but examined the method, location and as much detail as possible for each measure, in complete contrast to what Callendar and Wigley did.
The IPCC had to show that,
· Increases in atmospheric CO2 caused temperature increase in the historic record.
· Current levels are unusually high relative to the historic record.
· Current levels are much higher than pre-industrial levels.
· The differences between pre-industrial and current atmospheric levels are due to human additions of CO2 to the atmosphere.
Beck’s work showed the fallacy of these claims and in so doing put a big target on his back.
Again from my obituary;
Ernst Georg Beck was a scholar and gentleman in every sense of the term. His friend wrote, “They tried to denounce Ernst Georg Beck in the Internet as naive amateur and data counterfeiter. Unfortunately, Ernst could hardly defend himself in the last months because of its progressive illness.” His work, determination and ethics were all directed at answering questions in the skeptical method that is true science; the antithesis of the efforts of all those who challenged and tried to block or denigrate him.
The 19th-century CO2 measures are no less accurate than those for temperature; indeed, I would argue that Beck shows they are superior. So why, for example, are his assessments any less valid than those made for the early portions of the Central England Temperatures (CET)? I spoke at length with Hubert Lamb about the early portion of Manley’s CET reconstruction because the instruments, locations, measures, records and knowledge of the observers were comparable to those in the Hudson’s Bay Company record I was dealing with.
Once the pre-industrial level was created it became necessary to ensure the new CO2 post-industrial trend continued. It was achieved when C.D.Keeling established the Mauna Loa CO2 measuring station. As Beck notes,
Modern greenhouse hypothesis is based on the work of G.S. Callendar and C.D. Keeling, following S. Arrhenius, as latterly popularized by the IPCC.
Keeling’s son operates Mauna Loa and as Beck notes, “owns the global monopoly of calibration of all CO2 measurements.” He is also a co-author of the IPCC reports, which accept Mauna Loa and all other readings as representative of global levels. So the IPCC control the human production figures and the atmospheric CO2 levels and both are constantly and consistently increasing.
This diverts from the real problem with the measures and claims. The fundamental IPCC objective is to identify human causes of global warming. You can only determine the human portion and contribution if you know natural levels and how much they vary and we have only very crude estimates.
What Values Are Used for Each Component of the Carbon Cycle?
Dr. Dietrich Koelle is one of the few scientists to assess estimates of natural annual CO2 emissions.
Annual Carbon Dioxide Emissions GtC per annum
1.Respiration (Humans, animals, phytoplankton) 45 to 52
2. Ocean out-gassing (tropical areas) 90 to 100
3. Volcanic and other ground sources 0.5 to 2
4. Ground bacteria, rotting and decay 50 to 60
5. Forest cutting, forest fires 1 to 3
6. Anthropogenic emissions Fossil Fuels (2010) 9.5
TOTAL 196 to 226.5
Source: Dr. Dietrich Koelle
The IPCC estimate of human production (6) for 2010 was 9.5 GtC, but that is total production. One of the early issues in the push to ratify the Kyoto Protocol was an attempt to get US ratification. The US asked for carbon credits, primarily for CO2 removed through reforestation, so a net figure would apply to their assessment as a developed nation. It was denied. The reality is the net figure better represents human impact. If we use human net production (6) at 5 GtC for 2010, then it falls within the range of the estimate for three natural sources, (1), (2), and (4).
The Truth Will Out.
How much longer will the IPCC continue to produce CO2 data with trends to fit their hypothesis that temperature will continue to rise? How much longer before the public become aware of Gray’s colorful observation that, “The anthropogenic only portion of atmospheric CO2, let alone China’s portion, does not have the cojones necessary to make one single bit of “weather” do a damn thing different.” The almost 18-year leveling and slight reduction in global temperature is essentially impossible based on IPCC assumptions. One claim is already made that the hiatus doesn’t negate their science or projections, instead of acknowledging it, along with failed predictions completely rejects their fear mongering.
IPCC and EPA have already shown that being wrong or being caught doesn’t matter. The objective is the scary headline, enhanced by the constant claim it is getting worse at an increasing rate, and time is running out. Aldous Huxley said, “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” We must make sure they are real and not ignored.
[1] Reproduced with permission of William Kininmonth.
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Phil. says:
August 7, 2014 at 11:06 am
We’re not talking “homosphere”. We’re talking boundary layer. The stacks are, at most, some tens of meters high.
This isn’t some idealized, average behavior of well-mixed gases over large vertical columns you find in your basic textbooks. This is specific, localized behavior, in a location with relatively large gravity gradient, and additionally, a great big roaring sink for CO2 right below.
Really, Phil, this is tedious. Your thinking is undergraduate level. And, it’s not really the main thrust of my argument, anyway. I don’t have anymore time for your sophomoric rants. Go away.
Alan –
Stop cherry picking. If you want to see the curvature, you need to look over a long interval, where the signal-to-noise ratio becomes large.
You want to see the curvature, look here.
I have to go. You folks carry on without me.
Bart says:
August 7, 2014 at 8:33 am
In steady proportion, not in increasing proportion.
and
There is no reason to expect it to increase more than proportionately.
Depends of the processes involved: the oceans react directly proportionally on pressure (differences) and are less influenced by temperature.
Vegetation is influenced by a lot of other items than CO2 alone: temperature, precipitation, nutrients, fertilizers,…
From the oxygen and 13C/12C balances it is known that vegetation was a small net emitter for CO2 before 1990 and an increasing absorber of CO2 after 1990 and largely responsible for the year-by-year variability over the past 55 years. The difference between pre-1990 and today is about 1.5 GtC/year, large enough to explain the increase in uptake from 40% to 60%, if the oceans remained proportional.
That implies three coincidences:
That were three coincidences from the same process(or), which may happen seldom, but not really unbelievable. Three non-related events, of which two natural and one human, all working synchronous seems a real miracle…
And, CO2 is a heavy molecule.
Even point sources are readily dispersed into the bulk of the atmosphere with a minimum of wind speed.
Phil.:
Your post at August 7, 2014 at 11:35 am says in total
Phil., I don’t know why you post at this or any other thread, but your every post demonstrates you are a bozo and the one I have quoted is no exception.
Ferdinand and Nick asserted that anthropogenic (i.e. man-made) CO2 emissions could not be being sequestered locally because the effects would be noticed. My post pointed out that it would not be noticed because – as Ferdinand had admitted earlier in the thread – local carbon transfers and CO2 emissions can be very large and I pointed out what he had said and its implication.
Phil., I fully understand that these issues are hard for ignorant little trolls like you to understand, but when you get as confused as in this case it is better for you to avoid the issue instead of both proclaiming and demonstrating that you are a bozo.
Richard
Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
August 7, 2014 at 12:03 pm
“Even point sources are readily dispersed into the bulk of the atmosphere with a minimum of wind speed.”
No, they aren’t. Provide data, not words, data, to prove me wrong.
Bart says:
August 7, 2014 at 11:50 am
Phil. says:
August 7, 2014 at 11:06 am
We’re not talking “homosphere”. We’re talking boundary layer. The stacks are, at most, some tens of meters high.
And the molecular mass of CO2 has nothing to do with it, your comment “And, CO2 is a heavy molecule” was idiotic.
This isn’t some idealized, average behavior of well-mixed gases over large vertical columns you find in your basic textbooks. This is specific, localized behavior, in a location with relatively large gravity gradient, and additionally, a great big roaring sink for CO2 right below.
The soil below is a source of CO2 not a sink, a fact that both you and courtney seem unaware of!
The balance equation for CO2 is as follows:
d[CO2]/dt = emissions + Source(T, CO2) – Sink(T, CO2)
Neither of your simplified ‘affine’ relationships make any sense.
Unfortunately your thinking is barely high school, thank goodness you’re going so that we don’t have to listen to your twaddle any more.
[snip – ad homs says the man hiding behind a persona from a university -mod]
richardscourtney says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:52 am
The isotope ratio proves nothing (as Ferdinand knows) and the local sequestration is very possible according to Ferdinand’s refutation of Beck’s data in this thread.
The isotope ratio proves a lot of items, like that vegetation is the main cause of the year by year variability in CO2 sequestering and that humans are the cause of the decrease in 13C/12C ratio and that the oceans are not responsible for the increase in CO2,…
Local sequestration is possible, it is even locally measured in plants around point sources (around volcanic vents: the origin of the CO2 the plants used: volcanic or bulk), but it doesn’t matter that much.
Some 60 GtC/year is emitted locally by plants at night (respiration), some 60 GtC/year is added by soil bacteria, molds, etc… from the decaying of old leaves etc… continuously over the year(s), more in summer, less in winter. Some 120 GtC per year is absorbed by plants during daylight. The net balance of that cycle is ~1 GtC/year more uptake than decay.
Humans emit some 9 GtC/year as CO2. Even if all of that was absorbed by the next available trees, that only means that 1 GtC was absorbed, but that there still is a 8 GtC increase in the atmosphere natural CO2 which wasn’t captured, thanks to the extra human CO2 capturing, due to the limited uptake capacity of vegetation.
Thus direct capturing by nearby plants doesn’t help much in preventing an extra increase in the atmosphere…
That is not credible because the world is a big place and it takes time to dissipate the local concentrations.
If I look at the wind speed at my own small weather station, I often see that there is no or little wind at evening/night. It starts again in daylight and is maximal in the afternoon. Thus while the levels get high near ground at night, CO2 is readily dispersed during the day. Something that Keeling Sr. did discover when he measured CO2 in the early years even within forests: the heat/sun in the afternoon did give more turbulence and showed CO2 levels at similar low levels as in deserts and over the oceans…
And it takes only a few tens of meters to get the extra CO2 out of the reach of plants…
Bart says:
August 7, 2014 at 12:23 pm
No, they aren’t. Provide data, not words, data, to prove me wrong.
Bart, there are programs on the market which calculate the dispersion of chemical leaks into the rest of the atmosphere, depending of wind speed, buildings and other objects (trees,…) in the wind direction.
I was personally involved in such a program for a possible chlorine leak and a circle of detectors to calculate the risk of poisoning of our neighbors (fortunately never happened). The dispersion of chlorine (molar weight 71, near 5 times heavier than air) was between the second and third power of the distance. Not completely third power, up to the bulk of the atmosphere, but by far not only creeping over the soil except if there was no wind.
Smoke stack contains at maximum 20% CO2 (by volume) if they consume all available oxygen and no water is formed (which is never the case, not even for coal) and 80% N2, average molar weight 20, some 40% higher than the rest of the atmosphere. Need not much wind to disperse in the bulk of the atmosphere and hardly will come down even from low house stacks. I haven’t see much smoke (mostly water) coming down out of the stacks…
Ferdinand Engelbeen:
At August 7, 2014 at 12:41 pm you make the untrue assertion
Ferdinand, you know that the isotope ratio change proves none of that.
The isotope ratio change is in the direction expected if the anthropogenic (i.e. man-made) CO2 were causing the observed rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration, but there is a 50:50 chance that the direction would be that or the other. Importantly, the magnitude of the isotope ratio change is wrong by a factor of 3 if it is caused by the anthropogenic CO2. Also, the discrimination between ocean and biota CO2 is poor because the ocean surface layer cycles all CO2 in and out.
Therefore, the direct indication of the isotope ratio change is to DISprove the things you say it proves. However, there are possible explanations for all the discrepancies and, therefore, the correct interpretation is – as I said “The isotope ratio proves nothing (as Ferdinand knows)“.
Richard
Ferdinand Engelbeen:
re your post addressed to Bart at August 7, 2014 at 1:14 pm.
The issue is “local” compared to “global”. “Local” CO2 absorbtion can be within hundreds of miles of the emission source when the claim is that the emitted CO2 becomes globally well mixed in the atmosphere.
Richard
Richard
What was your opinion of masses 2007 paper I referenced here?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/05/co2-data-might-fit-the-ipcc-hypothesis-but-it-doesnt-fit-reality/#comment-1703353
Tonyb
“So where are the soil bacteria supposed to obtain their carbon, by mail order?”
Snail mail.
Thanks a lot! Now I have to clean my monitor! LOL
Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
August 7, 2014 at 1:14 pm
The dispersion of chlorine (molar weight 71, near 5 times heavier than air)
N2, average molar weight 20, some 40% higher than the rest of the atmosphere.
The atmosphere has about 78% N2 which has a molar mass of 28 and 21% O2 which has a molar mass of 32. The other 1% make little difference to the resulting average of about 29.
So N2 is about the same, but very slightly less than the average. And 71 is about 2.45 times heavier.
Hey guys, I’m NOT going to hold my breath till you guys agree!
climatereason says:
August 6, 2014 at 5:02 pm
Phil
Thanks for that.
You’re welcome. I thought it was a rather good review by Bray, the analysis of the methods and sampling was thorough.
Werner Brozek says:
August 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm
You can see that it was a long time ago… Counted N and O, not N2 and O2… But Cl2 still a lot heavier than air, while smoke stack is hardly heavier, despite the extra CO2…
richardscourtney says:
August 7, 2014 at 1:45 pm
The isotope ratio change is in the direction expected if the anthropogenic (i.e. man-made) CO2 were causing the observed rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration, but there is a 50:50 chance that the direction would be that or the other.
Richard, that is pure nonsense: if you add some acid to a solution, there is no 50:50 chance that the pH goes down, it is 100% sure that it will go down, even buffered, there will be a change in the right direction.
If you add low-13C CO2 to the atmosphere from fossil fuels, the atmospheric 13C/12C ratio will go down in that direction, except if other sources supply a lot of high-13 C CO2. Which is partly the case for the biosphere, which is a moderate sink for CO2 and preferably 12CO2, thus leaving relative more 13CO2 in the atmosphere.
The oceans (and near all other CO2 sources) are anyway higher in 13C/12C ratio, even after fractionation at the water-air border (and back). Thus the oceans are not the cause of the 13CO2 decline, but they do reduce the 13CO2 decline caused by human emissions. The difference even can be used to estimate the deep ocean – air carbon cycle:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/deep_ocean_air_zero.jpg
which points to an about 40 GtC/year deep ocean – atmosphere carbon cycle. A similar 40 GtC/year exchange rate was deduced from the nuclear bomb test 14C peak decline.
richardscourtney says:
August 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm
The issue is “local” compared to “global”. “Local” CO2 absorbtion can be within hundreds of miles of the emission source when the claim is that the emitted CO2 becomes globally well mixed in the atmosphere.
As said before, it hardly matters if the human emissions are absorbed locally or get into the bulk of the atmosphere: they are additional. If they are absorbed locally, they simply replace a “natural” CO2 molecule that then not is absorbed and remains in the atmosphere, thus giving the same increase in total CO2.
The only difference would be that the local CO2 levels would be enhanced a lot by human CO2, therefore increasing the uptake by plants (and waters). But even in (small) towns under inversion the difference between Sunday and Monday rush hours is hardly measurable and fades out in a few hours of sunlight and/or higher wind speeds:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/diekirch_diurnal.jpg
Ferdinand Engelbeen: “As said before, it hardly matters if the human emissions are absorbed locally or get into the bulk of the atmosphere: they are additional. If they are absorbed locally, they simply replace a “natural” CO2 molecule that then not is absorbed and remains in the atmosphere, thus giving the same increase in total CO2.”
You’re no doubt correct, since you’ve been thinking about this stuff a lot, but to me that conclusion falls short of self-evident. I can’t say I know the mechanisms, but couldn’t high-concentration “artificial” sources spawn local sinks that would not have been there if only “natural” CO2 had been present?
Joe Born says:
August 8, 2014 at 1:59 am
It would make a difference if the local human CO2 concentrations were much higher near plants, but as several local measurements show, local CO2 concentrations are hardly influenced by humans compared to the huge diurnal changes caused by vegetation. The levels are elevated in towns, but these are sparsely “green”. Besides traffic, the bulk from industry and house heating is dispersed above the catch area of plants and already reduced a lot when these reach them…
Tonyb:
Your post at August 7, 2014 at 1:59 pm asks me
Clearly, I cannot give a full review of the paper here. But I provide this answer.
The paper is available at
http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/CO2_versus_windspeed-review-1-FM.pdf
It is titled
‘Accurate estimation of CO2 background level from near ground measurements at non-mixed environments’
and its authors are Dr. Francis Massen and Dipl. Biol. Ernst-Georg Beck.
The paper by Massen & Beck relates atmospheric CO2 concentration data from individual sites to data from Mauna Loa and, therefore, it is a significant contribution to understanding of the historical data collated by Beck. It provides much useful information which may be considered to be confirmatory of Beck’s conclusions but – in my opinion – its findings cannot be considered conclusive because they are capable of more than one interpretation. In this respect the findings of Massen & Beck are similar to all other information concerning the carbon cycle; i.e. so little is known, and so little is understood, of the carbon cycle that the little available information on the carbon cycle can be understood to support any one of a variety of interpretations.
As this thread demonstrates, assessment of the carbon cycle is bedevilled by people who champion different interpretations instead of recognising that the data is consistent with all their interpretations.
In my opinion, these are the most important statements in the paper.
So, the authors accept that there is a ‘background level’ and they claim the regional CO2 background level is seen as being mostly represented by the daily minimum level.
They continue saying that to determine the regional CO2 background level relative to the Mauna Loa data
They then fit this curve to data from different individual sites.
It should be noted that they say this is a “simple dilution formula” but there is no evidence that it is a function of dilution: it could be a function of sequestration with distance from source. This possibility is not stated in the paper but is emphasised by their equations 3a and 3b which they say often give a better fit.
This is problematic. Different curve fitting exercises are appropriate for different sites. But any two time series can be equated if one of them can be adjusted in any possible way. A proper, empirically derived theory of their corrections is required. It seems to me that the different equations are probably evaluating how dispersion being varied by windspeed affects different local sequestration regimes and not mixing, but that cannot be known.
Massen & Beck illustrate their point saying
Thus, the paper demonstrates that – for very limited data – by use of curve fitting the values obtained at each latitude can be related to the values obtained at Mauna Loa.
The limited data cover 17 years.
Furthermore, by using the obtained relationship for a site then – if it is assumed that the relationship has not altered at that site – historical data from the site can be related to CO2 which existed at the Mauna Loa site. This is done for Giessen weather station, for Liege, and for Vienna. Their conclusion is
These conclusions are valid in terms of the reported work but that work includes some very questionable assumptions: all other conclusions by others concerning carbon cycle work also contain questionable assumptions because so little is known and understood about the carbon cycle that no conclusions can be obtained without use of assumptions.
I hope these views are adequate and what you wanted.
Richard
Nick Stokes:
Thanks for your witticism at August 7, 2014 at 2:46 pm.
It is the best post in the thread.
Richard
Ferdinand Engelbeen:
At August 8, 2014 at 1:15 am you quote my accurately having said at August 7, 2014 at 1:45 pm
And you begin your reply by saying
You should know that it is not reasonable to say something is “pure nonsense” when your reason has no relation to the statement you dispute.
The isotope ratio changing does not alter the pH and I did not mention the pH.
Richard
Ferdinand Engelbeen:
At August 8, 2014 at 3:19 am you write
Ferdinand, you are almost there and only need to think it through a little more.
If “local CO2 concentrations are hardly influenced by humans compared to the huge diurnal changes caused by vegetation” then why don’t the nearby sequestration processes sequester the small increase to CO2 from humans?
Richard