CO2 data might fit the IPCC hypothesis, but it doesn't fit reality

Opinion by Dr. Tim Ball

I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. – Arthur Conan Doyle. (Sherlock Holmes)

Create The Facts You Want.

In a comment about the WUWT article “The Record of recent Man-made CO2 emissions: 1965-2013”, Pamela Gray, graphically but pointedly, summarized the situation.

When will we finally truly do the math? The anthropogenic only portion of atmospheric CO2, let alone China’s portion, does not have the cojones necessary to make one single bit of “weather” do a damn thing different. Take out just the anthropogenic CO2 and rerun the past 30 years of weather. The exact same weather pattern variations would have occurred. Or maybe because of the random nature of weather we would have had it worse. Or it could have been much better. Now do something really ridiculous and take out just China’s portion. I know, the post isn’t meant to paint China as the bad guy. But. Really? Really? All this for something so tiny you can’t find it? Not even in a child’s balloon?

The only quibble I have is that the amount illustrates the futility of the claims, as Gray notes, but the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are focused on trends and attribution. It must have a human cause and be steadily increasing, or, as they prefer – getting worse.

Narrowing the Focus

It’s necessary to revisit criticisms of CO2 levels created by the IPCC over the last several years. Nowadays, a measure of the accuracy of the criticisms, are the vehemence of the personal attacks designed to divert from the science and evidence.

From its inception, the IPCC focused on human production of CO2. It began with the definition of climate change, provided by the UNFCCC, as only those caused by humans. The goal was to prove their hypothesis that increase of atmospheric CO2 would cause warming. This required evidence that the level increased from pre-Industrial times, and would increase each year because of human industrial activity. How long before they start reducing the rate of CO2 increase to make it fit the declining temperatures? They are running out of guesses, 30 at latest count, to explain the continued lack of temperature increase now at 17 years and 10 months.

The IPCC makes the bizarre claim that up until 1950 human addition of CO2 was a minor driver of global temperature. After that over 90 percent of temperature increase is due to human CO2.

Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic GHG concentrations.

 

The claim that a fractional increase in CO2 from human sources, which is naturally only 4 percent of all greenhouse gases, become the dominant factor in just a couple of years is incredulous. This claim comes from computer models, which are the only place in the world where a CO2 increase causes a temperature increase. It depends on human production and atmospheric levels increasing. It assumes temperature continues to increase, as all three of IPCC scenario projections imply.

Their frustration is they control the CO2 data, but after the University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) began satellite global temperature data, control of temperature data was curtailed. It didn’t stop them completely, as disclosures by McIntyre, Watts, Goddard, the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition among others, illustrated. They all showed adjustments designed to enhance and emphasize higher modern temperatures.

Now they’re confronted with T. H. Huxley’s challenge,

The Great Tragedy of Science – the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.

This article examines how the modern levels of atmospheric CO2 were determined and controlled to fit the hypothesis. They may fit a political agenda, but they don’t fit nature’s agenda.

New Deductive Method; Create the Facts to Fit the Theory

Farhad Manjoo asked in True Enough: Learning To Live In A Post-fact Society,

“Why has punditry lately overtaken news? Why do lies seem to linger so long in the cultural subconscious even after they’ve been thoroughly discredited? And why, when more people than ever before are documenting the truth with laptops and digital cameras, does fact-free spin and propaganda seem to work so well?”

Manjoo’s comments apply to society in general, but are enhanced about climate science because of differing public abilities with regard to scientific issues. A large majority is more easily deceived.

Manjoo argues that people create facts themselves or find someone to produce them. Creating data is the only option in climate science because, as the 1999 NRC Report found, there is virtually none. A response to February 3, 1999 US National Research Council (NRC) Report on Climate Data said,

“Deficiencies in the accuracy, quality and continuity of the records place serious limitations on the confidence that can be placed in the research results.

The situation is worse today. The number of stations used is dramatically reduced and records adjusted to lower historic temperature data, which increases the gradient of the record. Lack of data for the oceans was recently identified.

“Two of the world’s premiere ocean scientists from Harvard and MIT have addressed the data limitations that currently prevent the oceanographic community from resolving the differences among various estimates of changing ocean heat content.”

Oceans are critical to CO2 levels because of their large sink or source capacity.

Data necessary to create a viable determination of climate mechanisms and thereby climate change, is completely inadequate. This applies especially to the structure of climate models. There is no data for at least 80 percent of the grids covering the globe, so they guess; it’s called parameterization. The 2007 IPCC Report notes,

Due to the limited resolutions of the models, many of these processes are not resolved adequately by the model grid and must therefore be parameterized. The differences between parameterizations are an important reason why climate model results differ.

Variable results occur because of inadequate data at the most basic level and subjective choices by the people involved.

The IPCC Produce The Human Production Numbers

In the 2001, IPCC Report identified 6.5 GtC (gigatons of carbon) from human sources. The figure rose to 7.5 GtC in the 2007 report and by 2010 it was 9.5 GtC. Where did they get these numbers? The answer is the IPCC has them produced and then vet them. In the FAQ section they ask, “How does the IPCC produce its Inventory Guidelines?”

Utilizing IPCC procedures, nominated experts from around the world draft the reports that are then extensively reviewed twice before approval by the IPCC.

They were called Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (SRES) until the 2013 Report, when they became Representative Concentration Pathways (RCP). In March 2001, John Daly reports Richard Lindzen referring to the SRES and the entire IPCC process including SRES as follows,

In a recent interview with James Glassman, Dr. Lindzen said that the latest report of the UN-IPCC (that he helped author), “was very much a children’s exercise of what might possibly happen” prepared by a “peculiar group” with “no technical competence.”

William Kininmonth, author of the insightful book “Climate Change: A Natural Hazard”, was former head of Australia’s National Climate Centre and their delegate to the WMO Commission for Climatology. He wrote the following in an email on the ClimateSceptics group page.

I was at first confused to see the RCP concept emerge in AR5. I have come to the conclusion that RCP is no more than a sleight of hand to confuse readers and hide absurdities in the previous approach.

You will recall that the previous carbon emission scenarios were supposed to be based on solid economic models. However, this basis was challenged by reputable economists and the IPCC economic modelling was left rather ragged and a huge question mark hanging over it.

I sense the RCP approach is to bypass the fraught economic modelling: prescribed radiation forcing pathways are fed into the climate models to give future temperature rise—if the radiation forcing plateaus at 8.5W/m2 sometime after 2100 then the global temperature rise will be 3C. But what does 8.5 W/m2 mean? Previously it was suggested that a doubling of CO2 would give a radiation forcing of 3.7 W/m2. To reach a radiation forcing of 7.4 W/m2 would thus require a doubling again—4 times CO2 concentration. Thus to follow RCP8.5 it is necessary for the atmospheric CO2 concentration equivalent to exceed 1120ppm after 2100.

We are left questioning the realism of a RCP 8.5 scenario. Is there any likelihood of the atmospheric CO2 reaching about 1120 ppm by 2100? IPCC has raised a straw man scenario to give a ‘dangerous’ global temperature rise of about 3C early in the 22nd century knowing full well that such a concentration has an extremely low probability of being achieved. But, of course, this is not explained to the politicians and policymakers. They are told of the dangerous outcome if the RCP8.5 is followed without being told of the low probability of it occurring.

One absurdity is replaced by another! Or have I missed something fundamental?[1]

No, nothing is missed! However, in reality, it doesn’t matter whether it changes anything; it achieves the goal of increasing CO2 and its supposed impact of global warming. Underpinning of IPCC climate science and the economics depends on accurate data and knowledge of mechanisms and that is not available.

We know there was insufficient weather data on which to construct climate models and the situation deteriorated as they eliminated weather stations, ‘adjusted’ them and then cherry-picked data. We know knowledge of mechanisms is inadequate because the IPCC WGI Science Report says so.

Unfortunately, the total surface heat and water fluxes (see Supplementary Material, Figure S8.14) are not well observed.

or

For models to simulate accurately the seasonally varying pattern of precipitation, they must correctly simulate a number of processes (e.g., evapotranspiration, condensation, transport) that are difficult to evaluate at a global scale.

 

Two critical situations were central to control of atmospheric CO2 levels. We know Guy Stewart Callendar, A British steam engineer, cherry-picked the low readings from 90,000 19th century atmospheric CO2 measures. This not only established a low pre-industrial level, but also altered the trend of atmospheric levels. (Figure 1)

clip_image002

Figure 1 (After Jaworowski; Trend lines added)

Callendar’s work was influential in the Gore generated claims of human induced CO2 increases. However, the most influential paper in the climate community, especially at CRU and the IPCC, was Tom Wigley’s 1983 paper “The pre-industrial carbon dioxide level.” (Climatic Change. 5, 315-320). I held seminars in my graduate level climate course about its validity and selectivity to establish a pre-industrial base line.

I wrote an obituary on learning of Becks untimely death.

I was flattered when he asked me to review one of his early papers on the historic pattern of atmospheric CO2 and its relationship to global warming. I was struck by the precision, detail and perceptiveness of his work and urged its publication. I also warned him about the personal attacks and unscientific challenges he could expect. On 6 November 2009 he wrote to me,In Germany the situation is comparable to the times of medieval inquisition.” Fortunately, he was not deterred. His friend Edgar Gartner explained Ernst’s contribution in his obituary. “Due to his immense specialized knowledge and his methodical severity Ernst very promptly noticed numerous inconsistencies in the statements of the Intergovernmental Penal on Climate Change IPCC. He considered the warming of the earth’s atmosphere as a result of a rise of the carbon dioxide content of the air of approximately 0.03 to 0.04 percent as impossible. And it doubted that the curve of the CO2 increase noted on the Hawaii volcano Mauna Loa since 1957/58 could be extrapolated linear back to the 19th century.” (This is a translation from the German)

Beck was the first to analyze in detail the 19th century data. It was data collected for scientific attempts to measure precisely the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. It began in 1812, triggered by Priestly’s work on atmospheric oxygen, and was part of the scientific effort to quantify all atmospheric gases. There was no immediate political motive. Beck did not cherry-pick the results, but examined the method, location and as much detail as possible for each measure, in complete contrast to what Callendar and Wigley did.

The IPCC had to show that,

· Increases in atmospheric CO2 caused temperature increase in the historic record.

· Current levels are unusually high relative to the historic record.

· Current levels are much higher than pre-industrial levels.

· The differences between pre-industrial and current atmospheric levels are due to human additions of CO2 to the atmosphere.

Beck’s work showed the fallacy of these claims and in so doing put a big target on his back.

Again from my obituary;

Ernst Georg Beck was a scholar and gentleman in every sense of the term. His friend wrote, “They tried to denounce Ernst Georg Beck in the Internet as naive amateur and data counterfeiter. Unfortunately, Ernst could hardly defend himself in the last months because of its progressive illness.” His work, determination and ethics were all directed at answering questions in the skeptical method that is true science; the antithesis of the efforts of all those who challenged and tried to block or denigrate him.

The 19th-century CO2 measures are no less accurate than those for temperature; indeed, I would argue that Beck shows they are superior. So why, for example, are his assessments any less valid than those made for the early portions of the Central England Temperatures (CET)? I spoke at length with Hubert Lamb about the early portion of Manley’s CET reconstruction because the instruments, locations, measures, records and knowledge of the observers were comparable to those in the Hudson’s Bay Company record I was dealing with.

Once the pre-industrial level was created it became necessary to ensure the new CO2 post-industrial trend continued. It was achieved when C.D.Keeling established the Mauna Loa CO2 measuring station. As Beck notes,

Modern greenhouse hypothesis is based on the work of G.S. Callendar and C.D. Keeling, following S. Arrhenius, as latterly popularized by the IPCC.

Keeling’s son operates Mauna Loa and as Beck notes, “owns the global monopoly of calibration of all CO2 measurements.” He is also a co-author of the IPCC reports, which accept Mauna Loa and all other readings as representative of global levels. So the IPCC control the human production figures and the atmospheric CO2 levels and both are constantly and consistently increasing.

This diverts from the real problem with the measures and claims. The fundamental IPCC objective is to identify human causes of global warming. You can only determine the human portion and contribution if you know natural levels and how much they vary and we have only very crude estimates.

What Values Are Used for Each Component of the Carbon Cycle?

Dr. Dietrich Koelle is one of the few scientists to assess estimates of natural annual CO2 emissions.

Annual Carbon Dioxide Emissions GtC per annum

1.Respiration (Humans, animals, phytoplankton) 45 to 52

2. Ocean out-gassing (tropical areas) 90 to 100

3. Volcanic and other ground sources 0.5 to 2

4. Ground bacteria, rotting and decay 50 to 60

5. Forest cutting, forest fires 1 to 3

6. Anthropogenic emissions Fossil Fuels (2010) 9.5

TOTAL 196 to 226.5

Source: Dr. Dietrich Koelle

The IPCC estimate of human production (6) for 2010 was 9.5 GtC, but that is total production. One of the early issues in the push to ratify the Kyoto Protocol was an attempt to get US ratification. The US asked for carbon credits, primarily for CO2 removed through reforestation, so a net figure would apply to their assessment as a developed nation. It was denied. The reality is the net figure better represents human impact. If we use human net production (6) at 5 GtC for 2010, then it falls within the range of the estimate for three natural sources, (1), (2), and (4).

The Truth Will Out.

How much longer will the IPCC continue to produce CO2 data with trends to fit their hypothesis that temperature will continue to rise? How much longer before the public become aware of Gray’s colorful observation that, “The anthropogenic only portion of atmospheric CO2, let alone China’s portion, does not have the cojones necessary to make one single bit of “weather” do a damn thing different.” The almost 18-year leveling and slight reduction in global temperature is essentially impossible based on IPCC assumptions. One claim is already made that the hiatus doesn’t negate their science or projections, instead of acknowledging it, along with failed predictions completely rejects their fear mongering.

IPCC and EPA have already shown that being wrong or being caught doesn’t matter. The objective is the scary headline, enhanced by the constant claim it is getting worse at an increasing rate, and time is running out. Aldous Huxley said, “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” We must make sure they are real and not ignored.


[1] Reproduced with permission of William Kininmonth.

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Bart
August 6, 2014 6:54 pm

out = ought

August 6, 2014 7:36 pm

Bart says:
August 6, 2014 at 6:53 pm
Yes, but the standard first order assumption would be that it would increase proportionately. Here, we have to assume it is increasing not in tandem with emissions, but by a greater factor than the emissions, that it is soaking up the emissions with accelerating vigor as time goes on. That is really reaching out on a limb, especially when it suggests a self-perpetuating dynamic which would, if left to its own, completely suck every last molecule of CO2 out of the atmosphere. Especially, when there is an alternative explanation which requires no such speculation.

Only from someone who has no clue about the physical chemistry involved, Henry’s law for example!

Bart
August 6, 2014 8:02 pm

Phil. says:
August 6, 2014 at 7:36 pm
Oh, boy… Think, Phil, think! you’re only helping my case, not hurting it.

August 6, 2014 8:50 pm

Bart says:
August 6, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Phil. says:
August 6, 2014 at 7:36 pm
Oh, boy… Think, Phil, think! you’re only helping my case, not hurting it.

Good advice, take it, you have no case.

August 7, 2014 12:10 am

Eli Rabett says:
August 6, 2014 at 2:18 pm
Ferdinand, MODTRAN fixes the temperature of the surface, so at best you are modeling the immediate change if a pulse of CO2 were emitted suddenly, not the climate response which occurs throughout the atmosphere, up to the level at which the atmosphere is no longer opaque at line center.
Thanks Eli, I used Modtran with as initial conditions standard global atmosphere, 400 ppmv and looking down at 1 km height. That gives the outgoing radiation at that height. If you increase CO2 to 1000 ppmv, that shows a small reduction in outgoing energy, which can be compensated with a 0.1°C offset at ground level. As the outgoing radiation at 1 km height with 0.1°C is restored, the rest of the 70 km column doesn’t make a change…

August 7, 2014 1:54 am

climatereason says:
August 6, 2014 at 5:02 pm
The CO2 versus wind-speed plot seems to be a good first level validation tool for historical data.
It could be, if there were a lot of datapoints at high wind speed (over 4 m/s). For Giessen that are only some 20 points with a range similar to the range at low wind speed.
Compare the ranges at Diekirch, which is a small town in a valley with the historical site of Giessen which is a similar small town, and despite that shows hardly any convergence at high wind speeds. Even the authors agree:
but the high wind speed data suggest a possible CO2 range between 466 and 326 ppm, a range too large to be of much use
The same problems at Liège, hardly any datapoints at > 4 m/s and Vienna, which has a lot of datapoints but again a non-convergence range which in this case is narrower than at Giessen, thus borderline of value…

climatereason
Editor
August 7, 2014 2:10 am

Ferdinand
Although I know your position I would trust you as an independent observer to audit the more reliable of the old figures.
If I can just organise around 20 million Euros of funding for a two year project will you take it on? 🙂
tonyb

August 7, 2014 2:27 am

Bart says:
August 6, 2014 at 6:53 pm
If emissions are driving atmospheric concentration, then it out at least to accelerate when emissions accelerate, and decelerate when they decelerate.
They do over the full 55 years of Mauna Loa and beyond:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/acc_co2_1960_cur.jpg
They don’t for the year-by year rate of change or even not for periods of a few decades, as some natural sinks increased in capacity beyond the increased CO2 pressure in the atmosphere: land vegetation was a (small) source of CO2 before 1990 and is an increasing sink since then, based on the oxygen balance, thus slightly increasing the sink ratio compared to earlier decades, which were and still are mainly dominated by the oceans.
That is really reaching out on a limb, especially when it suggests a self-perpetuating dynamic which would, if left to its own, completely suck every last molecule of CO2 out of the atmosphere.
Sorry Bart, the carbon cycle as a whole is a system in dynamic equilibrium, which setpoint is dictated by temperature. Any change in temperature will change the setpoint: + 17 ppmv/K for the oceans (Henry’s Law), – x ppmv for the biosphere. The average change over 800 kyears is 8 ppmv/K for a combination of all partial processes involved.
Any disturbance of that cycle will be met with an increase or decrease in uptake/release in ratio to the disturbance (Le Châtelier’s principle). Until now that is met for the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere (whatever the source):
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/dco2_em4.jpg
where the red line is the residual CO2 as result of human emissions minus a function of the pressure difference between what is in the atmosphere and what the temperature dictated setpoint shows. The latter is where the CO2 levels are going over time if humans stop emissions (half life time ~40 years), not zero.
If you enlarge the scales, as you have done, it looks like that in the second halve the ratio decreased, while 60% or 40% doesn’t make any substantial difference. If temperature was the driving force, even a small change in temperature trend as is seen in the last decade would give a dramatic drop in rate of change of CO2…

August 7, 2014 2:38 am

climatereason says:
August 7, 2014 at 2:10 am
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the offer, I would spend that money at travelling around the world (good excuse to do that) and measure the local CO2 variability at all the historical places… And a accuracy check of the old wet methods would be interesting too…
But I fear that nobody is interested in providing that money…

August 7, 2014 3:21 am

Bart says:
August 6, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Moreover, there has always been a better fit with Southern hemispheric temperatures, which may suggest this is primarily an oceanic phenomenon.
What Bart suggests is that a more or less linear increase in temperature will give a slightly quadratic increase of CO2 in the atmosphere.
There is some possibility, if e.g. there was an increase in deep ocean upwelling (either amount or concentration). That gives an increase in CO2 upwelling near the tropics. If the temperature linear increases at the same time, the combination of both has a very small quadratic term (too small, but nevertheless…).
That implies three coincidences in a row:
– increase in temperature
– increase in upwelling
– in exact lockstep with human emissions: timing and ratio of the quantities emitted
But there is not any indication in any observation that there was an increase in upwelling (or in fact circulation):
– no decrease in residence time of CO2, even a slight increase in recent estimates
– no increase in 13C/12C ratio, only a firm decrease in ratio with human emissions
– no increased decay rate of the nuclear bomb test 14C spike
– the land biosphere is an increasing net sink for CO2
– the oceans are increasing net sinks for CO2
And he totally forgets the negative feedback of the carbon cycle: increased pressure in the atmosphere will increase the uptake by oceans and vegetation. Here for the oceans only: a step change of 10% more C concentration at year 5 and a step change of 1 K at year 10. Both work out as a combined asymptote to a higher CO2 level and increased in/out fluxes, but not to an unabated increase of CO2 for a step change in temperature and/or concentration.

richardscourtney
August 7, 2014 3:24 am

rgbatduke:
Thankyou for your post at August 6, 2014 at 8:42 am which I consider to be a valuable ‘follow on’ from your earlier post at August 5, 2014 at 5:39 am.
I draw attention to your point that says

The increasing divergence between SSTs, LTTs, and LSTs suggest that a lot of what is being interpreted as global warming is really local warming — basically HHE (human habitation effect) warming in the vicinity of human habitations of all sorts — warming due to agriculture or land use changes, UHI warming, warming due to alterations in local GHG concentrations a factor of 2-3 larger than the average atmospheric concentration in an easily optically thick layer (but one that GCMs cannot resolve or explicitly treat, assuming that we had any way of tracking CO_2 sources at the required spatiotemporal granularity).

Yes, and the human contribution to atmospheric CO2 may be part of what you call HHE (human habitation effect) which is very localised.
If (as I have been pointing out for many years) the CO2 from human activities is absorbed very near to its sources then it does not contribute to the observed rise in ‘background’ CO2 and cannot make significant contribution to global warming. This possibility is supported by the observed large, rapid fluctuations in atmospheric CO2 near sources of CO2 emission from human activites.
And more information is needed to reject or to confirm this possibility.
Richard

August 7, 2014 4:09 am

richardscourtney says:
August 7, 2014 at 3:24 am
If … the CO2 from human activities is absorbed very near to its sources then it does not contribute to the observed rise in ‘background’ CO2 and cannot make significant contribution to global warming.
Hardly possible: human emissions are mainly from three sources: industry, towns and traffic. Traffic, as far as near vegetation, some part may be absorbed locally, towns already a lot less and industry emissions are mostly via stacks far above any vegetation.
Moreover, if the uptake is limited in capacity (as is the case for the bulk of the uptake) the capturing of a “human” CO2 molecule is instead of the capturing of a “natural” CO2 molecule which adds the same amount to the total increase of CO2. The increase in total uptake of the biosphere is not more than 1 GtC/year out of the 9 GtC/year human emissions…
Further, the 13C/12C ratio decline shows that at least 1/3rd of human CO2 remains in the atmosphere over time, including the (deep) ocean exchanges which reduce the 13C/12C decline because they have a higher ratio…

Nick Stokes
August 7, 2014 5:32 am

Ferdinand Engelbeen says: August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am
“Hardly possible:”

Indeed so – just the sheer quantity of emissions. In the West, 10-20 tons CO2 per person per year. About 200 x our mass. If that was somehow being retained in solid or dissolved form near where it was emitted, we’d notice.

Alan Robertson
August 7, 2014 6:04 am

Nick Stokes says:
August 7, 2014 at 5:32 am
Ferdinand Engelbeen says: August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am
“Hardly possible:”
Indeed so – just the sheer quantity of emissions. In the West, 10-20 tons CO2 per person per year. About 200 x our mass. If that was somehow being retained in solid or dissolved form near where it was emitted, we’d notice.
_______________
You just haven’t been aware of the apparently accelerating* rate at which birds have been assisting woody growth C sequestration in my property fence line, which is at rate greater than the aggravation point, which is a factor derived from the energy/time required to remove such woody growth.
* May only be aspect of grey hair circumstance

Alan Robertson
August 7, 2014 6:31 am

Bart says:
August 6, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Alan Robertson says:
August 6, 2014 at 2:21 pm
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/esrl-co2/normalise/mean:48/from:1959/to:1979/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1959/to:1979/mean:48/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1959/to:1979/trend
—————-
You are over-smoothing, and not using the best data set. The “curvature” you see is actually more like a step down, and then back up again. The fit isn’t bad. Moreover, there has always been a better fit with Southern hemispheric temperatures, which may suggest this is primarily an oceanic phenomenon.
____________________
Oversmoothing? Ok, change the Mean samples rate from ’48’ to ’12’. Would that change the outcome, or would any sample rate between those points change the outcome? No. The result is the same. The assertion fails. Not using the best data set for what? To prove your assertion?
The WFT tools are of limited usefulness. Curve fitting to prove hypothesis is an invalid technique.

Bart
August 7, 2014 8:33 am

Phil. says:
August 6, 2014 at 8:50 pm
Earth to Phil: Bart isn’t arguing that every molecule gets sucked out – he is arguing that the open ended increase in sink vigor would produce such a dynamic, and that is potty. You are agreeing with him.
Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
August 7, 2014 at 2:27 am
“Any disturbance of that cycle will be met with an increase or decrease in uptake/release in ratio to the disturbance…”
In steady proportion, not in increasing proportion.
“…while 60% or 40% doesn’t make any substantial difference.”
There is a substantial difference between 40% and 60%. You are making epicycles.
“…even a small change in temperature trend as is seen in the last decade would give a dramatic drop in rate of change of CO2…”
No, it would stabilize it. As it has.
Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
August 7, 2014 at 3:21 am
Thank you for graciously conceding the possibility.
“That implies three coincidences in a row”
Ex post facto probability waveforms collapse. I am sitting at my desk at 3:10 GMT. That implies three coincidences:
– I am at home
– I have a moment to spare
– It is 3:10 PM
Miracles happen every moment.
“…increased pressure in the atmosphere will increase the uptake by oceans and vegetation.”
There is no reason to expect it to increase more than proportionately.
Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am
“…industry emissions are mostly via stacks far above any vegetation.”
And, CO2 is a heavy molecule.
“…if the uptake is limited in capacity (as is the case for the bulk of the uptake)…”
But, your argument above is that it isn’t, as it has increased from 40% to 60%. You are contradicting yourself.
Nick Stokes says:
August 7, 2014 at 5:32 am
“… just the sheer quantity of emissions…”
A tiny proportion of natural emissions. Estimates are in the range of 3%.
Alan Robertson says:
August 7, 2014 at 6:31 am
You are oversmoothing, the least squares fit of the curve obscures local behavior and is very sensitive to end points, and you have a very low SNR making it even more sensitive.
Look, the curves match. The data are not perfect, but even with these bulk measurements, they match very closely. Emissions do not. They are diverging. If I could plot them on WFT, you would see them currently taking off super-linearly, while atmospheric concentration is rising only linearly.

August 7, 2014 9:50 am

Bart says:
August 7, 2014 at 8:33 am
Ferdinand Engelbeen says:
August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am
“…industry emissions are mostly via stacks far above any vegetation.”
And, CO2 is a heavy molecule.

That remark alone indicates that you can’t be taken seriously in a scientific discussion.
Try reading a textbook on physics of gases or physical chemistry.

Alan Robertson
August 7, 2014 10:06 am

Bart says:
August 7, 2014 at 8:33 am
“Look, the curves match. ”
______________
No, they don’t. Temperatures and T trend are decreasing amplitude, averaged over the time frame, while the curve of CO2 atm is increasing slope. According to your assertions, If the curve matched, it would curve in the opposite direction, displaying decreasing slope.

Bart
August 7, 2014 10:25 am

Alan Robertson says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:06 am
The curve of CO2 is NOT increasing slope. Look again. Where is the steady curvature you speak of? It’s not there. It’s just bobbling about the trend.
This curve matches!!!

Bart
August 7, 2014 10:27 am

Phil. says:
August 7, 2014 at 9:50 am
“That remark alone indicates that you can’t be taken seriously in a scientific discussion.”
Right back atcha’. It seems your physics are confined to local laboratory settings.

Alan Robertson
August 7, 2014 10:48 am

Bart says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:25 am
Alan Robertson says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:06 am
The curve of CO2 is NOT increasing slope. Look again. Where is the steady curvature you speak of? It’s not there. It’s just bobbling about the trend.
This curve matches!!!
________________
The curve certainly does increase slope and that is even shown in your graph used as response. I was plotting just raw data, while you plot integrals, etc to achieve a curve fit. In the following graph, I remove the fit, using your same applied integral, with just a tiny change in one parameter.
An artist could draw a rooster on a boxtop, but that rooster couldn’t crow, while these graphical manipulations certainly do lay an egg.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/esrl-co2/from:1959/mean:12/plot/hadcrut4sh/from:1959/scale:0..15/offset:0.10/integral/offset:315

richardscourtney
August 7, 2014 10:52 am

Ferdinand Engelbeen and Nick Stokes:
I am making this single reply to your posts at August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am and August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am, respectively.
Ferdinand’s post says

richardscourtney says:
August 7, 2014 at 3:24 am

If … the CO2 from human activities is absorbed very near to its sources then it does not contribute to the observed rise in ‘background’ CO2 and cannot make significant contribution to global warming.

Hardly possible: human emissions are mainly from three sources: industry, towns and traffic. Traffic, as far as near vegetation, some part may be absorbed locally, towns already a lot less and industry emissions are mostly via stacks far above any vegetation.
Moreover, if the uptake is limited in capacity (as is the case for the bulk of the uptake) the capturing of a “human” CO2 molecule is instead of the capturing of a “natural” CO2 molecule which adds the same amount to the total increase of CO2. The increase in total uptake of the biosphere is not more than 1 GtC/year out of the 9 GtC/year human emissions…
Further, the 13C/12C ratio decline shows that at least 1/3rd of human CO2 remains in the atmosphere over time, including the (deep) ocean exchanges which reduce the 13C/12C decline because they have a higher ratio…

And Nick Stokes says in total:

Ferdinand Engelbeen says: August 7, 2014 at 4:09 am

“Hardly possible:”

Indeed so – just the sheer quantity of emissions. In the West, 10-20 tons CO2 per person per year. About 200 x our mass. If that was somehow being retained in solid or dissolved form near where it was emitted, we’d notice.

The isotope ratio proves nothing (as Ferdinand knows) and the local sequestration is very possible according to Ferdinand’s refutation of Beck’s data in this thread.
The main assertion the two of your make is that high local concentrations which appear and vanish in a few hours become well mixed through the entire atmosphere. That is not credible because the world is a big place and it takes time to dissipate the local concentrations.
The new satellites may enable CO2 emissions to be tracked to determine where they go which – at present – is not known.
For example, Ferdinand claimed the high CO2 reported by Beck at Poonah was over crops and I replied saying at August 5, 2014 at 2:45 pm

Growing crops consume CO2 so their net effect would be to draw down CO2 and not to emit it.

And at August 6, 2014 at 12:28 am Ferdinand said to that

Several measurements at Poonah were taken below the growing leaves: these easily show levels of 1,000 ppmv and more. Make a pocket hole in the ground and measure CO2: the soil bacteria provide levels of CO2 which may be in the thousands…

”In the thousands”. But it is not possible for CO2 to be sequestered locally and not be noticed? So where are the soil bacteria supposed to obtain their carbon, by mail order?
Richard

August 7, 2014 11:06 am

Bart says:
AugBart says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:27 am
Phil. says:
August 7, 2014 at 9:50 am
“That remark alone indicates that you can’t be taken seriously in a scientific discussion.”
Right back atcha’. It seems your physics are confined to local laboratory settings.

What utter rubbish, you really don’t have a clue. Try checking up on the ‘homosphere’:
“The homosphere and heterosphere are defined by whether the atmospheric gases are well mixed. The surfaced-based homosphere includes the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, and the lowest part of the thermosphere, where the chemical composition of the atmosphere does not depend on molecular weight because the gases are mixed by turbulence.[14] This relatively homogeneous layer ends at the turbopause which is found at about 100 km (62 mi; 330,000 ft), which places it about 20 km (12 mi; 66,000 ft) above the mesopause.”
The first law of holes comes to mind in connection with your posts: ‘when in a hole stop digging’.

August 7, 2014 11:35 am

richardscourtney says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:52 am
And at August 6, 2014 at 12:28 am Ferdinand said to that
Several measurements at Poonah were taken below the growing leaves: these easily show levels of 1,000 ppmv and more. Make a pocket hole in the ground and measure CO2: the soil bacteria provide levels of CO2 which may be in the thousands…
”In the thousands”. But it is not possible for CO2 to be sequestered locally and not be noticed? So where are the soil bacteria supposed to obtain their carbon, by mail order?

What is it about this topic that brings out all the bozos?
They get it the same way you get yours, it’s called respiration!

Bart
August 7, 2014 11:40 am

Alan Robertson says:
August 7, 2014 at 10:48 am
“The curve certainly does increase slope…”
No, it does not. Did you look at the plot? Why didn’t you look at the plot? Look at the plot!

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