Interesting sat view: A train of 5 tropical cyclones in the Central and Eastern Pacific

From NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center and “Earth’s thermostat”

A train of developing tropical low pressure areas stretch from the Eastern Pacific Ocean into the Central Pacific and they were captured in an image from NOAA’s GOES-West satellite on August 1. The train of five tropical lows include the remnants of Tropical Storm Genevieve and newly developed Tropical Storm Iselle.

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This NOAA GOES-West satellite image from Aug. 1 shows a train of 5 developing tropical systems in the Eastern and Central Pacific (l to r): System 91C, Genevieve, System 96E, Iselle, and a tropical wave. Credit: NASA/NOAA GOES Project

NOAA’s GOES-West satellite captured an image of the Pacific Ocean on August 1 at 1200 UTC (8 a.m. EDT) that showed post-tropical cyclone Genevieve’s remnants between three other systems. The GOES-West image shows the train of storms with a well-developed Iselle near the end of the train.

NOAA manages the GOES-West and GOES-East satellites. Data from the satellites are used to create images and animations from NASA/NOAA’s GOES Project at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.

System 91C

The western-most tropical low pressure area lies to the west of Genevieve’s remnants. That low is designated as System 91C. At 0600 UTC (2 a.m. EDT), the center of System 91C was located near 12.0 north latitude and 167.3 west longitude, about 850 miles southwest of Honolulu, Hawaii. 91C has a low chance of developing into a tropical depression over the next couple of days.

East of System 91C lie Genevieve’s remnants. NOAA’s Central Pacific Hurricane Center (CPHC) issued the final warning on Post-tropical cyclone Genevieve on July 31 at 1500 UTC (11 a.m. EDT). At that time it was centered near 13.0 north latitude and 151.1 west longitude, about 1,255 miles east of Johnston Island. It was moving west.

Genevieve’s Remnants

At 8 a.m. EDT on August 1, Genevieve’s remnant low center was located about 500 miles south-southeast of Hilo, Hawaii. CPHC noted the atmospheric conditions are only marginally favorable for its redevelopment over the next few days as it moves westward near 10 mph.

System 96E

Continuing east, System 96E is tracking behind Genevieve’s remnants. System 96E is another developing low pressure area with a minimal chance for becoming a tropical depression. The CPHC gives System 96E a 10 percent chance of development over the next two days. It is located in the Eastern Pacific Ocean, about 1,275 miles east-southeast of the Big Island of Hawaii. Satellite imagery shows the low is producing minimal shower activity. CPHC noted that upper-level winds are currently not conducive for development, but they could become a little more favorable in a few days while the low moves westward at around 10 mph.

Tropical Storm Iselle

Behind System 96E is the only developed tropical cyclone, Tropical Storm Iselle. Iselle is located east-northeast of System 96E. Tropical storm Iselle was born on July 31 at 2100 UTC (5 p.m. EDT). On August 1, Iselle’s maximum sustained winds were already up to 60 mph (95 kph). At 5 a.m. EDT (2 a.m. PDT/0900 UTC).the center of Tropical Storm Iselle was located near latitude 13.5 north and longitude 124.6 west. Iselle is centered about 1,160 miles (1,870 km) west-southwest of the southern tip of Baja California, Mexico.

Fifth Area of Low Pressure

The fifth tropical low pressure area is east-southeast of Iselle. That area is a tropical wave that is producing disorganized showers and thunderstorms. That wave is located several hundred miles south-southwest of Manzanillo, Mexico. The National Hurricane Center noted that environmental conditions are conducive for gradual development of this system during the next several days while it moves westward at 10 mph. NHC gives this low a 30 percent chance of becoming a tropical depression over the next two days.

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ThinAir

How much heat does a “typical” pacific cyclone move into the upper atmosphere to assist in cooling the earth? Significant or not?

Latitude

that’ll certainly cool things off…..
I wish they wouldn’t try to scare people and just say a “low”….instead of CYCLONE!!!

Gary Meyers

Lots of cooling clouds out there!

James Strom

Bob Tisdale talks about this sort of stuff a lot. Are these systems close enough to the equator to give a boost to El Nino?

Patrick B

Reminds me of the Atlantic the year we ran through the alphabet

joelobryan

Like the ocean heat parasites they are, these systems are feeding off the dying remnants of Trenberth’s once-hoped-for Super ElNino. They transport the upper Sea surface heat via latent heat of evaporation and via convection transport and eject it as IR into space from the cloud tops in the stratosphere.
Sayonara ElNino 2014-15. We hardly knew ya’.

Alan Robertson

Gary Meyers says:
August 1, 2014 at 3:16 pm
Lots of cooling clouds out there!
________________
They’re much more than that. Each storm is effectively a heat escalator, transporting tropic heat skyward to be radiated quickly to space.

cheapsmack

Check out the view of the pacific winds on the following link. They were much more impressive yesterday, I have been watching to see if the winds shift to help kick in the possible El Nino. http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-98.38,47.48,302

Alan Robertson

Sorry, Gary Meyers,.My response to you was very poorly, sent accidentally while under construction and didn’t convey what I wanted to say.
You are right, those are cooling clouds.

Alan Robertson

… poorly worded… dang, did it again. i hate this “new” small footprint keyboard.

joelobryan

also this is an example of a wavelet set on a large scale. just like the surfer learns to read much smaller wave sets coming in to shore in order to pick and position on a good one for a brief ride.
their formation needed the right ocean atmosphere interacting conditions, a warmer than average SST and the atmospheric kickup. the SST kick may be a ElNino upwelling remnant, and the atmospheric kick would be an Easterly trade wind strengthening. The latter is not favorable for more ElNino strengthening.

Gary Meyers

Alan, I’ve had those moments before as well. Keep laughing!

Pamela Gray

Have you sent this to Al? He would love it. With just a little bit of touch up, he could turn this into the spawning ground for his new and improved hurrmagedon! This could be just what he needs to resurrect his inconvenient truth.

melinspain

If you look carefully thru http://earth.nullschool.net you can see about 12 low pressure systems streching all the way westward from the coast off Senegal to the Sea of Japan, almost 230 degrees of Earth circle!!!

Thin Air said:
“How much heat does a “typical” pacific cyclone move into the upper atmosphere to assist in cooling the earth? Significant or not?”
Not
Joel O’Brian said:
“[Storms] transport the upper Sea surface heat via latent heat of evaporation and via convection transport and eject it as IR into space from the cloud tops in the stratosphere.”
Ummm, if I may…-40F to -60F is not alot of heat to “eject it as IR into space” compared to what is at the surface. The tops of thunderstorms, especially tropical types (taller tropopause) are *COLD* not hot. The main thing these clouds do is wring out moisture and block the 80-90F heat at the surface from escaping to space. All the latent heat does is help the cloud to grow & wring out more moisture to fall as rain.
Jeff

jones

Ahaaa!
So that’s where all the hurricanes were hiding………
We’re for it now….

Steve Oregon

Willis is there right now getting hammered and diggin it.
Willis, do you have internet? How’s it going?
Send pics.

Paul 767

Willis is far North of there! Vancouver to Oregon.

Rud Istvan

Beautiful image of the classic summer ITCZ releasing latent ocean heat atbthe tops of those storm clouds. A visualQQ reason this year will be an El Nada. All these storms are processing west with the prevailing trades, which have obviously neither weakened nor reversed, freeing ocean heat to escape as OLR as they go.

Joel O’Bryan says:
August 1, 2014 at 3:47 pm
Like the ocean heat parasites they are, these systems are feeding off the dying remnants of Trenberth’s once-hoped-for Super ElNino.

I’m not so sure – the centers of all the cyclones are above 10°N. The Niño box fits within ±5°
See map at http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/teleconnections/enso/indicators/sst.php

Rud Istvan said:
“[convection]…freeing ocean heat to escape as OLR as they go.”
no…convection *blocks* ocean heat from escaping as OLR. convection are areas of *low* OLR not *high* OLR. The cloud tops are COLD (-40F to -60F). Refer to my post just above.
All these ideas of latent heat and thunderstorms being ‘magical’ outlets of Earth’s heat needs to stop. It’s wrong and can be understood with a little critical thinking, basic knowledge of the atmosphere structure & understanding of Skew-T charts. Don’t let the colors of IR satellite pix fool you – the yellow/red of thunderstorm tops are COLD not hot.
Jeff

mellyrn

JKrob said, “Ummm, if I may…-40F to -60F is not alot of heat to “eject it as IR into space” compared to what is at the surface.”
Maybe not, but compared to space, it certainly is. Lots of heat at the surface of the ocean; almost no heat at the surface of the atmosphere — that’s one helluva temperature gradient for heat to roll “down”.

Steve Oregon says:
August 1, 2014 at 5:27 pm
> Willis is there right now getting hammered and diggin it.
He better not be – “I’m going north to be first mate delivering a fishing boat from northern Vancouver Island to southern Oregon.”

Mike McMillan

I recall that hurricanes leave a surface trail of cold water in their wake. If these things are doing a convoy across the Pacific, shouldn’t that take the steam out of the following systems?

Paul

Bye bye El Nino, really? Don’t these cyclones spin against the trade winds, thereby directly contributing to El Nino (pushing warm water east in the equatorial Pacific)?

mellyrn says:
“Maybe not, but compared to space, it certainly is.”
Maybe so, but compared to the surface (as I stated), there is alot LESS (loss of around 130F presuming surface around 80-85F & cloud top around -50F) due to expansion of the rising gas.
“…almost no heat at the surface of the atmosphere”
I have no idea what you mean…the atmosphere has no ‘surface’. However…at the top of the effective atmosphere (the tropopause), which is where thunderstorms max out at, is exactly what I said – “…-40F to -60F is not alot of heat” …which is exactly what you said -“…almost no heat at the surface of the atmosphere” in your argument against me. (!?!?!)
The you state “…temperature gradient for heat to roll “down”.”
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean either. My point was that latent heat has almost no role in “releasing heat to space” and the process of condensing water vapor to a liquid/solid is more effective at blocking the large amount of heat at the surface from reaching space.
Jeff

Alan Robertson

JKrob says:
August 1, 2014 at 7:23 pm
_______________
I thought that daytime clouds provided a cooling effect and that tropical storms vented a lot of heat in the upper atmosphere, but what do I know.
I’m very interested in what you are saying, primarily because it seems backwards from what I thought and I’m interested in the way the heat transport really works, so please do tell us more- you seem to be a meteorologist, or similarly educated.

noaaprogrammer

@JKrob: I have no idea what the temperature differential is, or how deep the cooling is, but if cooler surface temperatures are “seen” in the wake of a hurricane, then to where is it distributed?

noaaprogrammer

“I should have included: “heat” -i.e. “then to where is the heat distributed?”

Greg Goodman

ThinAir says: “How much heat does a “typical” pacific cyclone move into the upper atmosphere to assist in cooling the earth? Significant or not?”
I recall seeing effect of this kind of storm in temperature anomaly animations. I made some extensive notes on these “balls” of temp anomaly firing out from the mexican coast and the tongues of warm SST firing from west to east across the equatorial zone.
I can’t recall the animation link but it was in one of Bob Tisdale’s articles. Two notable series were seen around sept-oct 2005 and may 2007. My intention was to see whether this was linked to ENSO and El Nino events.
ENSO meter is dropping rapidly towards zero right now.

SIGINT EX

No worry. Just the “drunkards” marching along a drunkards path … ha ha.
Like Obama and his oligarchs these days.

AJB

Mr Blobby departed … isolated son of blobby coming next as the southern high (now very elongated) folds and splits temporarily. Will likely spawn another [bigger] hoover at the head of that chain in a few days, depending on how big son of blobby gets before going the way of dad. Meanwhile keep navel gazing at SSTs in the 3.4 region … phhht.

Greg Goodman

This is the kind of animation I was thinking of, it should be possible to link the swirling patterns moving across the equator to the could photos but the times scale is a bit course on the animaitons.
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/Products/ocean/sst/anomaly/anim_2mw.html

MIssed the comment above. Here is a good look at the rotations. They have been there for most of this week…http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/overlay=total_precipitable_water/orthographic=-137.93,19.23,497

phlogiston

What could be more interesting than tropical cyclones?
When you get them it means global warming.
When you don’t get them it also means global warming.

joelobryan

krob wrote “All these ideas of latent heat and thunderstorms being ‘magical’ outlets of Earth’s heat needs to stop. It’s wrong and can be understood with a little critical thinking, basic knowledge of the atmosphere structure & understanding of Skew-T charts. ”
My comments to you Jeff,
Please go educate yourself on thermodynamics of tropical cyclones as Carnot 2T heat engines before you embarrass yourself further. You obviously didn’t get taught in college the thermodynamics of what drives a TC (not your fault). You are being fooled by NOAA’s standard OLR anomalies dogma, i.e -tive OLR anom = convection (clouds), +tive OLR anom = suppressed convection (clear sky radiative release from troposphere, i.e night time cooling).
The relevant temps of a TC are ~303 K sea surface waters and ~203 K at the tops of the clouds of a developed TC. That delta 100 K drives a lot of heat release into space when that water is eventually condensed high in those cloud tops, becasue as you mentioned, it is cold at those altitudes (230 K to 200K). They run at about 33% efficiency at those temps. That rising moisture on the way up, coriolis effect spins-up the cloud bands and the winds increase, all driven by latent heat release. Rain falls. Lots of it.
Some simple calculations from college textbooks have calculations showing that a typical Cat 1 Hurricane (on the Saffir-Simpson scale) releases/dissipates about 150 Megatons TNT equivalent energy every 1000 seconds. Typical sea surface temp drops in the top 10 meters after the storm passes is in the range of ~2 K for Cat 1-2 Hurricanes (about a 60 km wide core track) and >3 K in some of the Major TCs. Where does that tremendous amount of heat go? It goes to space under convection transport and condensation release. It is a 2T heat engine.
On the issue that this TC band is at about 10N to 15N. Of course that is above NOAA-defined areas for ENSO SST anomaly analysis. But the warm water upwelling from the Kelvin Wave gets transported wherever nature takes it. In June the bulk of that wave upwelled to the surface off Ecuador, and it now in the last 30 days been transported northward and back west. From NOAA Weekly ENSO update 28 July slide 7 and slide 8 shows it is moving northward in the NH ITCZ while the SH ITCZ is rapidly cooling.

eyesonu

JKrob says:
August 1, 2014 at 6:20 pm
=======
Perhaps you should explain your understanding of the process of convection over the oceans. I interpret your understanding being that convection transports no heat energy to space while at the same time creates a “greenhouse effect” causing warming of the surface.
Reading a Skew-T chart seems pretty basic from my viewpoint.

eyesonu

Willis had a good post a couple of months back that included a graphic od the (annual I believe) IR loss to space. It showed a large concentrated loss to space focused along the ~10N that these systems are following. That was interesting and this system following the same general path (~10N) arouses my curiosity again. Why not the equator or 10S? Hummmm.

I have noticed that typhoons can leave tracks in the daily sst frame. Watching typhoon Neoguri develop is when I first clearly saw it,s footprint develop day by day in the sst record. Neoguri was a good sized event.

Looks like the Sun is at its highest, at the moment, for that latitude?

Steve Oregon

Paul 767 & Rick Werme,
I was kidding about Willis.
But from reading many of his tales of adventure I could imagined that seafaring guy taking on the string of typhoons and living to share his wild ride.
Good luck with the delivery.
.

eyesonu

goldminor says:
August 1, 2014 at 9:54 pm
===========
Thanks for the link to earth.nullschool.net in your earlier post. Haven’t been there in a while.
As for viewing the surface temps in the wake of a hurricane, I’ve been doing that for a few years now. Obviously there is a LOT of heat removed by convection in a relative short period of time and the cool wake remains for quite a while.

joelobryan

eyesonu wrote, :That was interesting and this system following the same general path (~10N) arouses my curiosity again. Why not the equator or 10S? Hummmm.”
The prevailing NH easterly trade winds provide the kick (disturbance) to initiate a strong rotation in the natural convection (the Coriolis effect can be thought of in the context of Conservation of Angular Momentum).
Those easterly trade winds at 10-15N drive the TC across the Pacific.
The winds at the equator are slack and irregular. 18th and 19th Century mariners who depended on wind power avoided the equator for this reason. The waters of 10 S in the E. Pacific are too cool to allow TC formation. Hence Chilean fishermen normally fish for anchovies in the cold, nutrient rich upwelling Pacific waters off their coast. When it gets “warm” during an El Nino, that is relative, warm meaning not as cold, but still way too cold for TC development.
Indeed, we can see TS Genevieve is falling apart. The conditions, likely cooler water, could not sustain it, and forecasters see cool waters in front of it. In other words, it likely got out in front of the warm June Kelvin Wave remnants that is feeding this band. By mid-August, it will be done as there is no warm water in the Kelvin Wave pipeline coming to backfill and keep it going.

Greg Goodman

eyesonu says:
Willis had a good post a couple of months back that included a graphic od the (annual I believe) IR loss to space. It showed a large concentrated loss to space focused along the ~10N that these systems are following. That was interesting and this system following the same general path (~10N) arouses my curiosity again. Why not the equator or 10S? Hummmm.
ITCZ 😉

joelobryan

I wrote, “From NOAA Weekly ENSO update 28 July slide 7 and slide 8 shows it is moving northward in the NH ITCZ while the SH ITCZ is rapidly cooling.”
I should clarify that: Slides 7 and 8 shows shifting SST anomalies. Those positive SST anomalies are moving into the surface areas UNDERNEATH the NH ITCZ at around 10-15N. This of course is the “petrol on the fire” that is helping to fire up these tropical storms. The sea surface area UNDERNEATH the SH ITCZ is cooling (negative anomalies) over the past 30 days.

Greg Goodman

Ah , it wasn’t SST it was sea height anomalies:

I’m guessing those red blogs firing out of central America are storm surge bulges but I have not checked.

eyesonu

Thank you to Greg and Joel.
I searched ITCZ and read through several sources. There’s much to learn when directed in the right direction. Repeated references to late morning through late afternoon storms resulting in increased convection that would support Willis’ research in the previously mentioned lead post.
If anyone knows the link to that post it may benefit some who are new to discussions involving convection and energy transfer to space.

mikewaite

With ref to the comments on outgoing long wave IR I wondered whether information from the Chinese met satellites (FY series, since 1988) might be useful or relevant.
As a nation China has suffered more than most from natural disasters such as floods and cyclones and has a need for reliable, accurate atmospheric and land and ocean data- data not adulterated by ideological intrigue as suspected with US and EU data.
China’s national meteorological website seems to have a considerable amount of data available and the following link refers to the measurement of outgoing longwave TOA (top of the atmosphere) IR. It is lower, at 220W/m^2 for cloudy scenes than for clear skies , 260W/m^2, which seems instinctively in the right order.
http://www.nsmc.cma.gov.cn/NSMC_EN/Contents/100469.html
There is a lot more information available , but I do not know how useful it is to the general themes of the threads on this site.