Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Recently there have been a number of accusations and bad blood involving myself, David Evans, Joanne Nova, Lord Christopher Monckton, and Leif Svalgaard. Now, I cannot speak for any of them, but on my part, my own blood ended up mightily angrified, and I fear I waxed wroth.
However, I see no point in rehashing the past. What I want to do is to return to the underlying scientific questions. In that spirit, I apologize sincerely and completely for wherever I put in “something extra” in the previous discussion. In Buddhism, there’s a concept called “something extra”, and one is enjoined to avoid putting in “something extra”.
It is explained in the following way:
If I say “I am angry” that is simply a true statement.
But if I say “You made me angry”, that is something extra.
So I ask any and all of you to please accept my sincere apologies for whatever what I said that was something extra, so that we can move past this difficult time and get back to discussing the science. Both sides have legitimate grievances, and I am happy to make the first move to get past all of them by apologizing to all of you for whatever my part was in the bad blood. I hope that the other participants accept my apology in the spirit of reconciliation in which it is offered, and that we can move forwards without rancor or recriminations.
Regarding the science, let me go back to the original question, and see what I can do in the way of making my claims in a more Canadian manner. I’ll start by looking at the recent record of the “TSI”, the total solar irradiance:
Figure 1. Monthly total solar irradiance as measured by the CERES satellite. Vertical blue line shows mid-2004.
Now, if you don’t like the data from the CERES satellite, here’s the SORCE satellite data:
Figure 2. Daily total solar irradiance as measured by the SORCE satellite. Vertical red line indicates mid-2004. SOURCE
Note what is happening in both graphs after mid-2004 (vertical lines in both plots). As in every solar cycle, the TSI declines somewhat, and bottoms out. Then, it starts to rise again. And by the end of the datasets, in both cases the TSI is higher that it was in 2004.
So what was the scientific dispute all about, the discussion that underlies all of the bad feelings?
It revolved around the following graph from David Evans, referenced by both Leif Svalgaard and Lord Monckton, showing the basis of his predicted upcoming global cooling :
Figure 3. David Evan’s graph of TSI (gold line), along with a centered 11-year moving average of the TSI data (red, with dotted blue extension), and a 25 year unspecified smooth of temperature, presumably a trailing average (blue line). (Click to enlarge)
Now, as you can see, the bright red line basically falls off the edge of the earth around 2004. The note says “The recent falloff in solar radiation started somewhere in 2003-2005″.
However, a look at both the SORCE and the CERES data shows no such “falloff in solar radiation”, neither precipitous nor otherwise. In fact, both datasets agree that by 2013 the TSI was well above the level in mid-2004.
Since there is no fall in the underlying data of any kind, why does the red 11-year average line show abrupt cooling starting around 2004?
The answer lies in the various problems with the graph.
• The TSI data is a splice of three datasets, with two of them showing the post-2000 period. This is a huge source of potential error in itself. However, it gets worse.
• One of the spliced datasets is the Lean TSI reconstruction, an outdated dataset that the authors of the reconstruction themselves admit is inaccurate.
• Another is the PMOD dataset. It is known to be reading low by 0.2 W/ms at the solar minimum, introducing a spurious apparently strong recent “cooling” where none exists.
• The 11-year centered average is an extremely bad choice for a filter for sunspot/TSI data. Because the solar cycle varies both longer and shorter than 11 years, at times the 11-year average actually reverses the sense of the data, converting peaks into valleys and valleys into peaks. Look at the period from 1760-1800 in Figure 3, for example. What is happening is that the frequency data is getting strongly aliased into the amplitude data. As a result, the average can end up far from the reality, particularly at the ends of the dataset.
For another example, look at the period just after 1740 in Figure 3. The 11-year average takes a huge vertical jump … but meanwhile back in the real word, the TSI itself is not rising at all. It is falling. Clearly, the large vertical jump in the red line is totally spurious.
• The TSI data has had about 900 days of “data” added to it using an arbitrarily chosen value. This is shown by the blue dots which indicate a continuing drop in the temperature.
So regarding the question of why the red line is acting so strangely, the answer is that we have a perfect storm of spliced data, bad data, arbitrary “data” added to the spliced bad data, and an extremely poor filter choice.
And as a result, the red line doesn’t represent reality in any shape or form. There is no precipitous drop in TSI starting around 2004. It doesn’t exist. Sure, the 11-year average says clearly that there is a huge drop starting around that time … but the actual data says something entirely different, as shown in Figures 1 and 2.
Now, in the heat of the moment Leif described the red line as being “almost fraudulent”. I think this was an over-reaction, but perhaps an understandable one. After all, if the red line were flipped over vertically it would make a lovely hockeystick, and if someone claimed warming was coming based on that hockeystick, people would call them alarmists … and calling someone an alarmist is certainly a close relative of calling them “almost fraudulent”.
However, my guideline is, never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by error and misunderstanding. So I do not call their red line fraudulent, nor did I do so in the original discussion. Instead, I say that it is an error resulting from a misunderstanding. In any case, let me suggest that we leave out all ascription of motive and intent, that goes nowhere, and that we return to the science.
A more scientifically neutral description of the red line is that it is highly inaccurate and potentially misleading, because the apparent drop starting in 2003-2005 is simply an artifact of a combination of bad data and bad filtering.
Finally, to the degree that David Evans’ model predicts future cooling based on the red line, it is already falsified.
That is what I was trying to say, and I believe (subject to correction) that was what Leif was pointing out as well.
In closing, I will endeavor in this thread to keep my comments on as scientific a basis as possible, to avoid any personal references, and to not ascribe motive or intent. I request that everyone do the same. Many toes have already been stepped on in this discussion. Let’s see if we can simply discuss the science.
My best to all,
w.
VERY IMPORTANT: It is important in general, and in this discussion in particular, that you QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH. Note that this doesn’t mean just referencing their entire comment. Quote the exact words of their comment that you think are in error, and tell us why you think those words are wrong. If you do not quote the exact words that you disagree with, none of us will know what you are referring to … and out of such misunderstandings grows animosity and misunderstanding.
Finally, please don’t delve into the rights and wrongs of what has happened in the previous discussions. I am not interested in the slightest in ascribing blame or responsibility. I have accepted my own responsibility for my own actions and apologized for wherever I was over the line. What I or the others did in the past is a blind alley, so please confine your comments to the science, and as the saying goes, “Let the dead past bury its dead”.
Bob Weber says:
July 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm
The quote you mentioned isn’t on the link you provided (http://joannenova.com.au/page/2/),
Well, you just had to scroll down far enough.
If DE had been a little more careful
Sloppiness seems to be a hallmark.
Isn’t it time to change the subject?
To stop nitpicking, perhaps. If you agree that F10.7 is the real representation of solar activity, then you must also agree that Evans’ depiction of solar activity is not valid. That is the critical issue.
Mark Bofill says:
July 19, 2014 at 2:29 pm
So, why don’t these ‘ephemeral regions’ end up modulate cosmic rays the same way that sunspots do? Is it that the magnetic forces involved are smaller relative to sunspots?
Actually the total magnetic flux from the ephemeral regions is larger than that from the sunspots. The reason the ERs have no effect on cosmic ray modulation is that the ERs are very small bipolar regions with equal amount of north and south magnetic polarity which cancel out very close to the surface and leave no net flux to be carried out with solar wind. The magnetic field from sunspots [and especially decaying spots] cover a much larger area and can open up [as they get weaker as they spread out] to be carried out into space and modulate cosmic rays.
Dr. Svalgaard,
Thank you.
Bob Weber says:
July 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm
If DE had been a little more careful
He would then have done his homework. He claims that there is a sharp drop in TSI on the decreasing branch of a solar cycle and the the serious cooling will be an effect of that, but TSI declines in every solar cycle from maximum down to minimum and usually more than from the not so high maximum of cycle 23, so rapid cooling should happen in every cycle, contrary to evidence. This is the fundamental flaw in DEs claim.
For anyone interested:
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/cfa/excerpts.pdf
lsvalgaard says: July 19, 2014 at 2:34 pm
To stop nitpicking, perhaps.
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Well, it’s a start. At least you’re no longer mendaciously trolling Monckton’s threads. Then again there is mending fences, which is the inane title of this thread
Richard D says:
July 19, 2014 at 3:14 pm
At least you’re no longer mendaciously trolling Monckton’s threads.
like you are trolling this one. Have you no shame?
DE could be flawed and still end up being right about the upcoming temp drop, as I and many others here talk about based on our own research. Criticism of DE does not invalidate the solar-temperature connection. He may yet improve his stuff to the point of perfection, who knows.
What this has been for me is an education in preparation for the release of my own simpler solar model based on my “beloved” F10.7. But heck, very few here seem to want to know how the sun causes warming, cooling, and extreme weather events. Or do you?
Bob Weber says:
July 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm
DE could be flawed
You still evading the question:
If you agree that F10.7 is the real representation of solar activity, then you must also agree that Evans’ depiction of solar activity is not valid. That is the critical issue.
and still end up being right about the upcoming temp drop
Right for the wrong reason. He claims that there is a sharp drop in TSI on the decreasing branch of a solar cycle and that serious cooling will be an effect of that, but TSI declines in every solar cycle from maximum down to minimum and usually more than from the not so high maximum of cycle 23, so rapid cooling should happen in every cycle, contrary to evidence. This is the fundamental flaw in DEs claim.
lsvalgaard says: July 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm
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You made hundreds of stupid trolling posts on Moncton’s last thread. And hundreds of self serving posts here and none one on topic. All bow down to omnipotent lsvalgaard, ROFLMAO.
Bob Weber says:
July 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm
But heck, very few here seem to want to know how the sun causes warming, cooling, and extreme weather events. Or do you?
‘Want to know’? The question is ‘whether’. I have studied this problem for 4 solar cycles and published several papers on the subject [which are still cited today, http://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=qFdb2fIAAAAJ&pagesize=100&view_op=list_works ] and there is no good evidence that the sun has a measurable effect, let alone be solely responsible.
Richard D says:
July 19, 2014 at 3:38 pm
You made hundreds of stupid trolling posts on Moncton’s last thread
Jedem das Seine. And your contumelious comments are beneath contempt.
Monckton of Brenchley says: July 17, 2014 at 2:34 pm He is now in serious danger of finding himself on the wrong end of a libel suit that – on the evidence of his extraordinary conduct in this affair – he would be certain to lose.
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Mr. Monckton please advise where to send funds to support your efforts regarding these serially mendacious blowhards. It would be my pleasure to support your endeavors with cash.
lsvalgaard says: July 19, 2014 at 3:45 pm
Jedem das Seine
“”””””””””””””””””
Sorezore jibun jishin ni
at
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/07/the-solar-model-finds-a-big-fall-in-tsi-data-that-few-seem-to-know-about/
we see: “The Solar Model finds a big fall in TSI data that few seem to know about”
The reason that few seem to know about this is quite simple: they made it up. There is no big fall in TSI.
Reply to Mosher ==>
Re yours “There is no obligation to ask, or to ask nicely, or to say pretty please with sugar on it.
the obligation belongs to EVANS to show his work. he hasnt. end of story.
Evans has an obligation to produce. There is no obligation for willis to ask, to ask nicely, to ask by mail by phone by morse code, by smoke signal, to ask at all. Evans hasnt shown his work. fail.”
Dr. Evans stated from the first moment how he was going to proceed with his presentation of his work and data behind it. He promised to release the underlying work after he finished his multi-post presentation and is no obligation to change is course just because you and willis “demand” that he do so.
You may complain and stamp your feet all you like, it just makes you looks childish, truthfully. When Dr. Evans is done with his presentation, if you then still feel their is something underlying his work that you’d like to see, then you can ask him politely for it. If you just can’t wait for the whole presentation to be over, and for Dr. Evans to get to the point where he wishes to release different parts of his work, then you’ll have to ask him for it.
To go on and on with this kind of rude sniping is sophomoric.
You are free to hold your opinion “no code – no science” but what you really mean is “no one may do science his way and release results in a manner or order or speed they chose — they all must do it the Mosher way.”
lsvalgaard says: July 19, 2014 at 4:27 pm http://joannenova.com.au/2014/07/the-solar-model-finds-a-big-fall-in-tsi-data-that-few-seem-to-know-about/
_________________
“Leif Svalgaard said it was “almost fraudulent” that we claimed there was a fall in TSI since 2003 since there wasn’t a fall in this dataset. He says: “There is no such drop.” I say, look at the graph below, it’s even in your own data. Svalgaard provided the link to his TSI set, and we’ve included that line in the graph below. It’s the light-purple line. (Has he paid attention for the last ten years?)”
…………………………………………..
All off topic, yet lsvalgaard is suffering from Monckton, Evans, Jonova derangement syndrome. He really ought to run along to watch his sun spots, me thinks LOL…
Mr Eschenbach continues to be entirely unreasonable. I shall not reply to him further.
Mr Svalgaard will likewise not tempt me to make any replies here. The matter of his conduct is now with my lawyers for their advice and will in due course be drawn to the attention of his university.
Both these two have unjustifiably maligned Dr Evans in the most unpleasant and unjustifiable terms. That is a shame.
Kip Hansen says:
July 19, 2014 at 4:41 pm
Dr. Evans stated from the first moment how he was going to proceed with his presentation of his work and data behind it. He promised to release the underlying work after he finished his multi-post presentation and is no obligation to change is course just because you and willis “demand” that he do so.
To a certain extent none of this really matters, as his ‘model’ is already falsified: garbage in => garbage out.
Monckton of Brenchley says:
July 19, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Mr Eschenbach continues to be entirely unreasonable. I shall not reply to him further.
It seems you have found a willing stooge in the unpleasant ‘Richard D’.
Monckton of Brenchley says: July 19, 2014 at 4:51 pm
The matter of his conduct is now with my lawyers for their advice and will in due course be drawn to the attention of his university.
__________________________
Excellent
Richard D says:
July 19, 2014 at 5:27 pm
Excellent
The stooge speaks.
Monckton of Brenchley says:
July 19, 2014 at 4:51 pm
“Both these two have unjustifiably maligned Dr Evans in the most unpleasant and unjustifiable terms. That is a shame.”
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Of course that is your opinion, which in reality means nothing. You have stated this opinion numerous times, it is getting old and tiresome. Perhaps it is time for you to move on to something more substantial such as actively supporting Anthony when he arrives in the UK.
Bob Weber says:
July 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm
DE could be flawed
You are still evading the question:
If you agree that F10.7 is the real representation of solar activity, then you must also agree that Evans’ depiction of solar activity is not valid. That is the critical issue.
lsvalgaard says: July 19, 2014 at 6:18 pm
You are still evading ……..
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No, it’s you that is evading. According to the link you just posted, Jonova says “both men owe David Evans an apology.”