Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I thought I was done with sunspots … but as the well-known climate scientist Michael Corleone once remarked, “Just when I thought I was out … they pull me back in”. In this case Marcel Crok, the well-known Dutch climate writer, asked me if I’d seen the paper from Nir Shaviv called “Using the Oceans as a Calorimeter to Quantify the Solar Radiative Forcing”, available here. Dr. Shaviv’s paper claims that both the ocean heat content and the ocean sea surface temperature (SST) vary in step with the ~11 year solar cycle. Although it’s not clear what “we” means when he uses it, he says:
“We find that the total radiative forcing associated with solar cycles variations is about 5 to 7 times larger than just those associated with the TSI variations, thus implying the necessary existence of an amplification mechanism, though without pointing to which one.” Since the ocean heat content data is both spotty and incomplete, I looked to see if the much more extensive SST data actually showed signs of the claimed solar-related variation.
To start with, here’s what Shaviv2008 says about the treatment of the data:
Before deriving the global heat flux from the observed ocean heat content, it is worth while to study in more detail the different data sets we used, and in particular, to better understand their limitations. Since we wish to compare them to each other, we begin by creating comparable data sets, with the same resolution and time range. Thus, we down sample higher resolution data into one year bins and truncate all data sets to the range of 1955 to 2003.
I assume the 1955 start of their data is because the ocean heat content data starts in 1955. Their study uses the HadISST dataset, the “Ice and Sea Surface Temperature” data, so I went to the marvelous KNMI site and got that data to compare to the sunspot data. Here are the untruncated versions of the SIDC sunspot and the HadISST sea surface temperature data.
Figure 1. Sunspot numbers (upper panel) and sea surface temperatures (lower panel).
So … is there a solar component to the SST data? Well, looking at Figure 1, for starters we can say that if there is a solar component to SST, it’s pretty small. How small? Well, for that we need the math. I often start with a cross-correlation. A cross-correlation looks not only at how well correlated two datasets might be. It also shows how well correlated the two datasets are with a lag between the two. Figure 2 shows the cross-correlation between the sunspots and the SST:
Figure 2. Cross-correlation, sunspots and sea surface temperatures. Note that they are not significant at any lag, and that’s without accounting for autocorrelation.
So … I’m not seeing anything significant in the cross-correlation over full overlap of the two datasets, which is the period 1870-2013. However, they haven’t used the full dataset, only the part from 1955 to 2003. That’s only 49 years … and right then I start getting nervous. Remember, we’re looking for an 11-year cycle. So results from that particular half-century of data only represent three complete solar cycles, and that’s skinny … but in any case, here’s cross-correlation on the truncated datasets 1955-2003:
Figure 3. Cross-correlation, truncated sunspots and sea surface temperatures 1955-2003. Note that while they are larger than for the full dataset, they are still not significant at any lag, and that’s without accounting for autocorrelation.
Well, I can see how if all you looked at was the shortened datasets you might believe that there is a correlation between SST and sunspots. Figure 3 at least shows a positive correlation with no lag, one which is almost statistically significant if you ignore autocorrelation.
But remember, in the cross-correlation of the complete dataset shown back in Figure 2, the no-lag correlation is … well … zero. The apparent correlation shown in the half-century dataset disappears entirely when we look at the full 140-year dataset.
This highlights a huge recurring problem with analyzing natural datasets and looking for regular cycles. Regular cycles which are apparently real appear, last for a half century or even a century, and then disappear for a century …
Now, in Shaviv2008, the author suggests a way around this conundrum, viz:
Another way of visualizing the results, is to fold the data over the 11-year solar cycle and average. This reduces the relative contribution of sources uncorrelated with the solar activity as they will tend to average out (whether they are real or noise).
In support of this claim, he shows the following figure:
Figure 4. This shows Figure 5 from the Shaviv2008 paper. Of interest to this post is the top panel, showing the ostensible variation in the averaged cycles.
Now, I’ve used this technique myself. However, if I were to do it, I wouldn’t do it the way he has. He has aligned the solar minimum at time t=0, and then averaged the data for the 11 years after that. If I were doing it, I think I’d align them at the peak, and then take the averages for say six years on either side of the peak.
But in any case, rather than do it my way, I figured I’d see if I could emulate his results. Unfortunately, I ran into some issues right away when I started to do the actual calculations. Here’s the first issue:
Figure 5. The data used in Shaviv2008 to show the putative sunspot-SST relationship.
I’m sure you can see the problem. Because the dataset is so short (n = 49 years), there are only four solar minima—1964, 1976, 1986, and 1996. And since the truncated data ends in 2003, that means that we only have three complete solar cycles during the period.
This leads directly to a second problem, which is the size of the uncertainty of the results of the “folded” data. With only three full cycles to analyze, the uncertainty gets quite large. Here are the three folded datasets, along with the mean and the 95% confidence interval on the mean.
Figure 6. Sea surface temperatures from three full solar cycles, “folded” over the 11-year solar cycle as described in Shaviv2008
Now, when I’m looking for a repetitive cycle, I look at the 95% confidence interval of the mean. If the 95%CI includes the zero line, it means the variation is not significant. The problem in Figure 6, of course, is the fact that there are only three cycles in the dataset. As a result, the 95%CI goes “from the floor to the ceiling”, as the saying goes, and the results are not significant in the slightest.
So why does the Shaviv2008 result shown in Figure 4 look so convincing? Well … it’s because he’s only showing one standard error as the uncertainty in his results, when what is relevant is the 95%CI. If he showed the 95%CI, it would be obvious that the results are not significant.
However, none of that matters. Why not? Well, because the claimed effect disappears when we use the full SST and sunspot datasets. Their common period goes from 1870 through 2013, so there are many more cycles to average. Figure 7 shows the same type of “folded” analysis, except this time for the full period 1870-2013:
Figure 7. Sea surface temperatures from all solar cycles from 1870-2013, “folded” over the 11-year solar cycle as described in Shaviv2008
Here, we see the same thing that was revealed by the cross-correlation. The apparent cycle that seemed to be present in the most recent half-century of the data, the apparent cycle that is shown in Shaviv2008, that cycle disappears entirely when we look at the full dataset. And despite having a much narrower 95%CI because we have more data, once again there is no statistically significant departure from zero. At no time do we see anything unexplainable or unusual at all
And so once again, I find that the claims of a connection between the sun and climate evaporate when they are examined closely.
Let me be clear about what I am saying and not saying here. I am NOT saying that the sun doesn’t affect the climate.
What I am saying is that I still haven’t found any convincing sign of the ~11-year sunspot cycle in any climate dataset, nor has anyone pointed out such a dataset. And without that, it’s very hard to believe that even smaller secular variations in solar strength can have a significant effect on the climate.
So, for what I hope will be the final time, let me put out the challenge once again. Where is the climate dataset that shows the ~11-year sunspot/magnetism/cosmic rays/solar wind cycle? Shaviv echoes many others when he claims that there is some unknown amplification mechanism that makes the effects “about 5 to 7 times larger than just those associated with the TSI variations” … however, I’m not seeing it. So where can we find this mystery ~11-year cycle?
Please use whatever kind of analysis you prefer to demonstrate the putative 11-year cycle—”folded” analysis as above, cross-correlation, wavelet analysis, whatever.
Regards,
w.
My Usual Request: If you disagree with someone, myself included, please QUOTE THE EXACT WORDS YOU DISAGREE WITH. This prevents many flavors of misunderstanding, and lets us all see just what it is that you think is incorrect.
Subject: This post is about the quest for the 11-year solar cycle. It is not about your pet theory about 19.8 year Jupiter/Saturn synoptic cycles. If you wish to write about them, this is not the place. Take it to Tallbloke’s Talkshop, they enjoy discussing those kinds of cycles. Here, I’m looking for the 11-year sunspot cycles in weather data, so let me ask you kindly to restrict your comments to subjects involving those cycles.
Data and Code: I’ve put the sunspot and HadISST annual data online, along with the R computer code, in a single zipped folder called “Shaviv Folder.zip“
Catherine Ronconi says:
June 15, 2014 at 5:40 pm
Dang … she drove that bus right straight over the edge and down the precipice … that’s an impressive stunt. I did like some of the more subtle touches, too, like how it’s my fault that she has stooped to insults.
Been there … explained that …
Catherine, you’re not paying attention. I already looked at one of the Chilean tree-ring studies and reported my findings way upthread. Their results showed that the solar variations they referred to are scarcely visible down in the weeds. And their huge dataset consists of one single tree … However, there is a larger problem—their data isn’t archived, so no analysis is possible. And because it can neither be analyzed nor falsified, this of course means that their study is not science in any sense of the word.

Just for completeness, I looked at the other analysis just now. Their data isn’t archived either. What is it with these anecdotal studies? If the data isn’t archived, the study can’t be falsified, and as a result it’s not science of any kind. Far too many of these studies reference such unobtainable or “gray” datasets.
And their conclusions simply don’t agree with their graphics. Here’s their wavelet analysis of the tree rings:
Now, take a look at that analysis. There is a short period of time around 1650-1700 where there is a bit of power in the 11-year band. For the other 90% of the time there is NO POWER IN THE 11-YEAR RANGE.
So how do they describe this situation? Read’m and weep … emphasis mine:
That’s a load of bollocks, or at least it’s stretching the truth like boardwalk taffy … a “signal associated to the 11-year solar cycle”? Yeah, weakly for a few years, and it disappears entirely after that. That’s your evidence? Really?
So there you have it, Catherine. Both of the studies you reference are totally un-falsifiable, because they have not archived their data. And neither of them shows any significant strength in the ~11-year range.
In any case … suppose that the researchers in the first paper are correct and they actually did, after a couple of centuries of searching, find one single solitary tree that shows a solar signature … do you find that significant? Two centuries searching, and the searchers are impressed enough by one pathetic tree enough to publish it? Are you that impressed?
And if you do find it significant … do you understand what “significant” means?
Finally, I’ve never said that the sun has no effect on the climate.
What I am saying is that people have been searching for the ~11-year signal for a couple of centuries, and if your best shot at proof is a single freakin’ tree in Chile … well, to me that means that if the signal is there, it’s damn near invisible, or people wouldn’t be publishing results about one pathetic tree. And the single tree agrees—it says the solar-lengh cycles are tiny, way down in the noise, with LOTS of larger cycles.
To summarize, Catherine, I’ve given you the opportunity to tell me what you see as the best evidence for the solar-climate connection. I’ve looked at your best evidence, and it’s a joke—the data isn’t even archived, and the claimed results are not borne out by the graphics and other information. Nice try, though, and thanks for playing.
So … does anyone else have evidence that they think supports the existence of an 11-year cycle in the climate? Where is the dataset that actually contains such a signal, and how can we reveal it?
The world wonders …
w.
“So … does anyone else have evidence that they think supports the existence of an 11-year cycle in the climate? Where is the dataset that actually contains such a signal, and how can we reveal it?”
Nope, no amount of 11 year cycle threads will do it. Not looking for an 11 year cycle. Just 0.8C in 150 years. (good thing too, looks like David Evans is about to blow the whole “I can’t find an 11 year cycle so solar variation doesn’t effect climate” game out of the water).
“The world wonders …”
Well, some may be wondering when that “DWLWIR slows the cooling of the oceans” hole is going to be deep enough. The JCB here at WUWT has been working tirelessly since 2011 😉
Willis,
Here’s a free clue.
Q. Why did the climasstrologists just try to dismiss SST as a metric of global warming?
WUWT is at the bottom of a hole you dug.
A. !ohw sseuG
And who was it supposed to be? Who did I want it to be?
No matter, now it looks like it’s going to be David.
[The mods note that it is the bottom of a hole that does the work … You dig the hole to make the bottom deep enough! .mod]
[The mods note that it is the bottom of a hole that does the work … You dig the hole to make the bottom deep enough! .mod]
Might I suggest a construction hold before WUWT reaches China? They have real and immediate atmospheric pollution problems. (none of which involve CO2).
Konrad,
Saw you at Jo Nova. Nice.
Konrad. says:
June 16, 2014 at 6:15 am
You may not be looking … but Nir Shaviv was, and he claimed he found it. As have lots of other folks. I’m just trying to see if their claims are right, and so far without success.
Thanks, Konrad. I’ve responded to David over at Jo Novas. Short answer? There is no evidence of a “notch filter” as he claims.
I fear that your love for acronyms has led you into obscurity … what on earth is “the JCB here at WUWT”?
w.
Konrad. says:
June 16, 2014 at 6:53 am
Konrad, here’s a free clue. That bit of bizarre babbling and backwards writing makes no sense at all from this side of the screen. For example, you say “Who did I want it to be” … who did you want what to be?
That comment makes as little sense as your previous comment.
w.
Willis,
But you found the evidence of the “notch filter” yourself. The absence of the 11 year signal. And you know that the Maunder minimum shows up in the temperature record. So “low” frequency signals (in the case of Maunder several decades of low SSNs) get through. The question then is what causes the 11 year “notch” ?
Jo and David claim to have found a mechanism to explain it. We shall see in due time if they have.
In fact it was your analysis here that got me excited about what David/Jo have claimed to have found.
Berrnie!!! Funny!!!! “…no ham radio…during the Maunder Minimum…” She said a day later while sipping coffee finally getting the joke.
M. Simon, remember to rule out the first encountered pathology before digging passed the wax in the ear canal looking for a reason for the hearing loss. The Maunder Minimum does not track well at all with SSN. It tracks closely with known pulses of sulfate (and even pieces of ash) in ice cores. Between the two, an aerosol-caused diminution of solar surface insolation is the most likely cause of such a radical change in temperature versus the tiny change at the TOA. Two reasons, there is ample evidence of this aerosol load that tracks well with temperature proxies, and that kind of aerosol load is quite adequate to the task of directly (and with additional aerosol pulses, continuously) decreasing solar insolation, no amplification required. The evidence of changes at the Sun’s surface affecting on the ground temperatures is not evident at all without a tremendous amount of data massaging and using skating-on-thin-ice selective subjects.
Willis,
Here is the feedback signal: The answer lies in the changes in the height of the water vapor emissions layer…
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/06/big-news-part-i-historic-development-new-solar-climate-model-coming/
Pamela,
So does that also explain Dalton?
Pamela Gray says:
June 16, 2014 at 10:33 am
Except that the Maunder Minimum was named after the dearth of sunspots observed during the decades c. 1645 to 1715. Spörer noted this lack of sunspots in the observational record during his solar studies in the 1880s. Here is Eddy’s classic 1976 paper on the Maunder Minimum:
http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/people/guido/PHY2502/articles/solar-activity/Maunder_Minimum.pdf
That year also saw the landmark paper of Hays, Imbrie and Shackleton on the Milankovitch Cycle:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/194/4270/1121
Tragic that real climate science soon ground to halt after such a banner year, detoured by the noxious cult of CO2 modeling. Perhaps no accident that the PDO switched in 1977.
BTW FWIW Monckton who is privy to the results thinks there is something there.
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/06/big-news-part-i-historic-development-new-solar-climate-model-coming/#comment-1486213
M Simon says:
June 16, 2014 at 10:57 am
Pamela may cite volcanism during the Dalton as well, but then there are also the Spörer, Wolf & Oort Minima, which preceded the Maunder.
Eddy discussed the Spörer in his paper in Science on the Maunder, linked above.
sturgis,
Thanks for repeating your point. It convinced me to take the time and have a look.
M Simon says:
June 16, 2014 at 11:31 am
Glad you didn’t find repetition redundant. Thanks for link to Monckton’s comment.
From comments in another recent blog post:
IMO this curve-fitting exercise by retired environmental scientist Fred H. Haynie based upon CO2 data has captured important signals in the data:
http://www.kidswincom.net/climate.pdf.
“Scripps Institute has carbon dioxide monitoring sites around the Pacific from Alert Station, Canada, to
the South Pole. The data have been collected daily from some sites since 1958. Each of their sites was selected
to have a minimum influence from man made sources of carbon dioxide. They are intended to be background
sites. Concentrations in cities and near industrial sources are often several times background levels. Plots of the
raw daily flask data reveal some spikes in concentration indicating influence of local sources that are not
representative of background. These data are flagged and not included in daily or monthly averages.”…
“The vapor pressure of carbon dioxide is a function of the thermodynamics of sea water
containing carbonate ions, dissolved carbonates, their solids, as well as dissolved carbon
dioxide. Decaying organic matter is another source of carbon dioxide in sea water. There is
a lot more of it in the oceans than there is on land. The sea becomes a source when SST
rises and a sink when it falls. The rate of emission or absorption depends on the rate and
direction of temperature change. That rate is constantly changing with space and time. A
good example of this is illustrated by the four SST data sets of the Nino regions across the
tropical Pacific. The temperature rises as the water goes from East to West across the
Pacific. The rise is linear and the rate of rise varies seasonally and is not constant from year
to year. The seasonal variation is associated with the northern Pacific circulation. Besides
the seasonal variation there are two other statistically significant cycles. One at 11 years is
stronger than one at 176 years. Nearly all the rates are positive and vary by an order of
magnitude within six months. Thus, the tropics are nearly always a source of carbon
dioxide and the strength of that source changes by an order of magnitude within a relatively
short time.”…
“The warmest part of the Pacific is around the western equator. I calculated SST for 160
East using the Nino rate of warming data. Least squares regressions on these data yield four
statistically significant natural cycles. The annual cycles are approximated by a triangle wave
form with one harmonic (cos(x)+cos(3x)/9). The three other cycles are sine waves with
lengths of 11.11, 39.05, and 79.01 years. The regression accounts for nearly 60% of the
variability.”
Catherine Ronconi:
You’re, of course, strictly correct about the USN designation for “boomers,” but I didn’t want to ruin the fun of the pun.
Gotta love the sheer solipsism of Alice in Wonderland logic!
In previous threads Willis showed no clue of comprehending that:
1. Periodic and nonperiodic signals have entirely different spectral
structures, requiring different analytic methods.
2. Sinusoidal regression, a long-known method, produces an amplitude and
phase for a presumed period that is only as valid as the presumption of a
spectral line holds at that period.
3. Its proper application to identify the tidal constituents in accordance
with Doodson’s method requires HOURLY data over an entire 18.361yr Metonic
cycle, not just monthly sea-level data obtained from the former.
4. Professional implementation of Doodson’s method for a site in an
resonant embayment such as S. F. is at least a few weeks’ work.
5. Proper spectrum analysis of Calais sea-level data reveals a bimodal
structure, with the bulk of variance in the low-frequency bands peaked at
~66yrs, as shown by results I posted numerically.
6. Confidence intervals for cross-correlation of time-invariant data
are grossly inadequate for rejecting any relationship between SSN and SST,
given the patently different spectral structures and locations of major
spectral peaks in the empirical time-series.
Now he refuses to examine his own calculations of ccf beyond a narrow range
of lags, while passing off cross-spectrum analysis (a well-established
methodology in signal and system analysis) as MY “whiz-bang method.” I
suspect that discarding unreliable SST data before the year (1905?) when
WMO set standards for observations by ships of opportunity might prove him
wrong even on HIS amateurish grounds of judgement.
Instead he turns a polemicists blind eye to all of the foregoing and
assumes the illusional mantle of authority on the question of SSN and SST
relationship, as if he has ever walked the walk on any substantive
scientific grounds.
What a hoot from deep in the rabbit hole!
Willis,
Just so you don’t miss it: http://joannenova.com.au/2014/06/big-news-part-ii-for-the-first-time-a-mysterious-notch-filter-found-in-the-climate/#comment-1488140
Willis,
A thermostat is a notch filter for all frequencies less than the response frequency of the system. (not exactly correct but the farther [lower frequency] from the response frequency the more correct)
So that leaves a question. Why 11 years? Why not 50 also? Or 500 in addition? You have not thought this through carefully. Very unlike you.
1sky1 says:
June 16, 2014 at 5:12 pm (Edit)
As I said before, 1sky1 specializes in telling people that they are wrong … but he never, ever deigns to show us how to do it right. I invited him to do so above, as follows:
Unfortunately, rather than show us that he can actually do it, and thus educate us in how to do it properly, 1sky1 does nothing but rage on and on about what a fool I am and how little I understand … perhaps true, but non-responsive.
1sky1, I may be a total fool. But I’ve done my analysis and archived my data and code. And Nir Shaviv has done his analysis and revealed his methods and data.
And until you do the same, until you show us that you can actually do it, I’ll continue to point and laugh at your vapid fulminations. As they used to say on the ranch I grew up on, “Pardner, you’re all hat and no cattle” …
w.
M Simon says:
June 16, 2014 at 10:11 pm
Sorry, but I’m not following you. If I have a house with a thermostat, what is the “response frequency” of that system? One year? One minute? I don’t understand what that means, and until I understand it I can’t answer it.
In any case, it sounds like you are claiming that the thermostat is a high-pass filter, not a notch filter. A notch filter is the inverse of a bandpass filter, it passes all frequencies above and below the band of the notch. A thermostat does nothing of the sort.
As to your accusation that I haven’t thought this through, I thought the same about you, but I was too polite to say so.
w.
Once again, Willis fails to show the ccf for longer lags and more reliable
data intervals, all the while trying to turn the burden of proof around with
polemical ploys. The insistence that anyone challenging his inept
methodology is somehow obligated to spend time preparing a tutorial on suitable methods with worked examples is transparently self-serving.
Showmanship ain’t science. Real cowboys wear Stetson hats, know that cattle
don’t look anything like unicorns, and don’t try to pass off roadkill as
prime beef. Rodeo clowns, however, often wear baseball caps turned
backward and do a lot of hollering.
1sky1 says:
June 17, 2014 at 5:12 pm
In this post at least I have to agree that Willis comes across as the antithesis of a scientist and the very picture of an attention-seeking, grandstanding pathological projector of his own less pleasant traits onto others.
Why not pick one of the proffered papers mentioning discovery of a c. 11-year cycle to analyze, instead of commenting only upon those he felt he could counter? Just makes him look like a scaredy cat afraid of what he might find out.
sturgishooper said in part June 17, 2014 at 5:20 pm:
“….Why not pick one of the proffered papers mentioning discovery of a c. 11-year cycle to analyze”…,
It hard to tell from your comment who the “why not” challenge is directed at. In one interpretation you seem to be offering to pick the paper yourself, which is really what WOULD makes the most sense by far. Which SPECIFIC paper (or papers) do you suggest?
If possible provide the link to a downloadable copy (free please) or just give us your own on-point summary of your own reading of it.