By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
It is time to be angry at the gruesome failure of peer review that allows publication of papers, such as the recent effusion of Professor Lovejoy of McGill University, which, in the gushing, widely-circulated press release that seems to accompany every mephitically ectoplasmic emanation from the Forces of Darkness these days, billed it thus:
“Statistical analysis rules out natural-warming hypothesis with more than 99 percent certainty.”
One thing anyone who studies any kind of physics knows is that claiming results to three standard deviations, or 99% confidence, requires – at minimum – that the data underlying the claim are exceptionally precise and trustworthy and, in particular, that the measurement error is minuscule.
Here is the Lovejoy paper’s proposition:
“Let us … make the hypothesis that anthropogenic forcings are indeed dominant (skeptics may be assured that this hypothesis will be tested and indeed quantified in the following analysis). If this is true, then it is plausible that they do not significantly affect the type or amplitude of the natural variability, so that a simple model may suffice:
“ΔTglobe/Δt is the measured mean global temperature anomaly, ΔTanth/Δt is the deterministic anthropogenic contribution, ΔTnat/Δt is the (stochastic) natural variability (including the responses to the natural forcings), and Δε/Δt is the measurement error. The last can be estimated from the differences between the various observed global series and their means; it is nearly independent of time scale [Lovejoy et al., 2013a] and sufficiently small (≈ ±0.03 K) that we ignore it.”
Just how likely is it that we can measure global mean surface temperature over time either as an absolute value or as an anomaly to a precision of less than 1/30 Cº? It cannot be done. Yet it was essential to Lovejoy’s fiction that he should pretend it could be done, for otherwise his laughable attempt to claim 99% certainty for yet another me-too, can-I-have-another-grant-please result using speculative modeling would have visibly failed at the first fence.
Some of the tamperings that have depressed temperature anomalies in the 1920s and 1930s to make warming this century seem worse than it really was are a great deal larger than a thirtieth of a Celsius degree.
Fig. 1 shows a notorious instance from New Zealand, courtesy of Bryan Leyland:
Figure 1. Annual New Zealand national mean surface temperature anomalies, 1990-2008, from NIWA, showing a warming rate of 0.3 Cº/century before “adjustment” and 1 Cº/century afterward. This “adjustment” is 23 times the Lovejoy measurement error.
Figure 2: Tampering with the U.S. temperature record. The GISS record from 1990-2008 (right panel) shows 1934 0.1 Cº lower and 1998 0.3 Cº higher than the same record in its original 1999 version (left panel). This tampering, calculated to increase the apparent warming trend over the 20th century, is more than 13 times the tiny measurement error mentioned by Lovejoy. The startling changes to the dataset between the 1999 and 2008 versions, first noticed by Steven Goddard, are clearly seen if the two slides are repeatedly shown one after the other as a blink comparator.
Fig. 2 shows the effect of tampering with the temperature record at both ends of the 20th century to sex up the warming rate. The practice is surprisingly widespread. There are similar examples from many records in several countries.
But what is quantified, because Professor Jones’ HadCRUT4 temperature series explicitly states it, is the magnitude of the combined measurement, coverage, and bias uncertainties in the data.
Measurement uncertainty arises because measurements are taken in different places under various conditions by different methods. Anthony Watts’ exposure of the poor siting of hundreds of U.S. temperature stations showed up how severe the problem is, with thermometers on airport taxiways, in car parks, by air-conditioning vents, close to sewage works, and so on.
(corrected paragraph) His campaign was so successful that the US climate community were shamed into shutting down or repositioning several poorly-sited temperature monitoring stations. Nevertheless, a network of several hundred ideally-sited stations with standardized equipment and reporting procedures, the Climate Reference Network, tends to show less warming than the older US Historical Climate Network.
That record showed – not greatly to skeptics’ surprise – a rate of warming noticeably slower than the shambolic legacy record. The new record was quietly shunted into a siding, seldom to be heard of again. It pointed to an inconvenient truth: some unknown but significant fraction of 20th-century global warming arose from old-fashioned measurement uncertainty.
Coverage uncertainty arises from the fact that temperature stations are not evenly spaced either spatially or temporally. There has been a startling decline in the number of temperature stations reporting to the global network: there were 6000 a couple of decades ago, but now there are closer to 1500.
Bias uncertainty arises from the fact that, as the improved network demonstrated all too painfully, the old network tends to be closer to human habitation than is ideal.
Figure 3. The monthly HadCRUT4 global temperature anomalies (dark blue) and least-squares trend (thick bright blue line), with the combined measurement, coverage, and bias uncertainties shown. Positive anomalies are green; negative are red.
Fig. 3 shows the HadCRUT4 anomalies since 1880, with the combined anomalies also shown. At present, the combined uncertainties are ±0.15 Cº, or almost a sixth of a Celsius degree up or down, over an interval of 0.3 Cº in total. This value, too, is an order of magnitude greater than the unrealistically tiny measurement error allowed for in Lovejoy’s equation (1).
The effect of the uncertainties is that for 18 years 2 months the HadCRUT4 global-temperature trend falls entirely within the zone of uncertainty (Fig. 4). Accordingly, we cannot tell even with 95% confidence whether any global warming at all has occurred since January 1996.
Figure 4. The HadCRUT4 monthly global mean surface temperature anomalies and trend, January 1996 to February 2014, with the zone of uncertainty (pale blue). Because the trend-line falls entirely within the zone of uncertainty, we cannot be even 95% confident that any global warming occurred over the entire 218-month period.
Now, if you and I know all this, do you suppose the peer reviewers did not know it? The measurement error was crucial to the thesis of the Lovejoy paper, yet the reviewers allowed him to get away with saying it was only 0.03 Cº when the oldest of the global datasets, and the one favored by the IPCC, actually publishes, every monthy, combined uncertainties that are ten times larger.
Let us be blunt. Not least because of those uncertainties, compounded by data tampering all over the world, it is impossible to determine climate sensitivity either to the claimed precision of 0.01 Cº or to 99% confidence from the temperature data.
For this reason alone, the headline conclusion in the fawning press release about the “99% certainty” that climate sensitivity is similar to the IPCC’s estimate is baseless. The order-of-magnitude error about the measurement uncertainties is enough on its own to doom the paper. There is a lot else wrong with it, but that is another story.
Nah, nevermind. That doesn’t appear to be what he was saying. I’ve been staring at this too long and I’m starting to see shapes in tea leaves. I’m going to drop this thread I think.
Thanks all.
Mark Bofill says:
April 17, 2014 at 1:20 pm
Lovejoy references this paper to explain it “How scaling fluctuation analyses change our view of the climate and its models” http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/3/C793/2013/esdd-3-C793-2013.pdf
its a good read, it explains Haar and the need to reduce the 0.2oC error bars which they suggest is natural macroweather.
Thank you for your support! Here’s a link to a Question and Answer sheet that I’ve made up to try to explain things as clearly as possible. Any comments/ suggestions are welcome!
http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~gang/eprints/eprintLovejoy/esubmissions/Questions.Answers.17.4.14.pdf
Prof Lovejoy says he has been “flooded” with rebuttals to his paper. That is not surprising, since the paper is basically nonsense. He adds a lot of assertions in his link above [such as: Mann’s Hockey Stick “has not been discredited…” &etc].
Where has Lovejoy been? On another planet? MBH98/99 has been so thoroughly discredited that Mann dares not provide his methodologies, data, metadata, or anything else that would allow others to falsify his conjecture — which is the job of any honest scientist. McKitrick and McIntyre have repeatedly debunked Mann, from his hokey stick chart, to his upside-down Tiljander sediments. If Prof Feynman were alive he would rip both Mann and Lovejoy to shreds, because neither of them has any use for the Scientific Method or it’s corollary, the Null Hypothesis.
For one example out of many, Mann hid data that would have completely eliminated his hokey stick shape, in an ftp file named “censored“. By hiding raw data that would have totally debunked his conjecture, Mann was able to fabricate his scary hockey stick shape [which Planet Earth has decisively falsified over the past decade and a half]. Yet Lovejoy asserts that Mann is not discredited?? That says a lot about Lovejoy, doesn’t it? In fact, it calls into question everything else he claims [“Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus”].
There is a lot of statistical mumbo-jumbo in Lovejoy’s paper, but I am satisfied when a professional statistician, William Briggs, says it’s hooey. [I also wonder what Prof Wegman would say about Lovejoy’s statistical mumbo-jumbo.]
There is also a lot of rhetorical cleverness in the questions, but it does not hide the fact that nothing claimed is evidence of a “human fingerprint” in global warming, because there is no such scientific evidence [and by ‘evidence’, we mean either raw data that leads to a solid conclusion, or empirical observations that conclusively show human activity; neither peer reviewed papers nor computer climate models are “evidence”]. Once again: there is no such scientific evidence, and the fact that Lovejoy’s paper has to use such pretzel-like contortions supports the Null Hypothesis: everything observed today has been exceeded in the past, and by a large degree — and prior to human emissions ramping up. It has all happened before, and all of the wild-eyed runaway global warming predictions have failed.
Scientific evidence is always lacking in these ‘carbon-scare’ papers, which are basically nothing but assertions. They are written to get tickets punched on the grant gravy train. Unfortunatly, that works all too often, to the detriment of hard-bitten taxpayers. Michael Mann showed the way. Now Mann is the rainmaker, and universities love him for the loot he brings in. Funny thing, though, Mann is scared spitless of engaging in any fair debate, in a neutral venue with a mutually-agreed Moderator. I suspect that Mr Lovejoy feels the same as Mann. Because YouTube never forgets. [If I am wrong, I will man-up and write a sincere apology here; I would love to watch a debate like that. But I think I’m spot on. [Would Lovejoy debate Monckton? Or Lindzen? There’s a challenge, eh?]
The basic fact is that even über-alarmist Phil Jones admits that there is no difference between past warming steps prior to the recent surge in [harmless, beneficial] CO2, and more recent warming events. They are all natural. There is also no “human fingerprint” observable in the CET record, or in many other cities with a long temperature record. If someone has to resort to statistical mumbo-jumbo in order to fabricate a claim of man-made global warming, then he has lost the debate. Basic scientific truths are just not that complicated.
Lovejoy will cash in, of course, and weary taxpayers will be fleeced once again. But those who might be inclined to give Lovejoy or any others in the self-serving alarmist clique any credence should keep in mind that none of them, even with their multi-million dollar GCMs, were able to predict the biggest climate event of the past century: 17+ years of no global warming. Not one of them predicted it! They all parroted the catastrophic AGW nonsense that made Mann rich and (in)famous. So those who tell us they know what’s up with the climate are self-serving charlatans. They do not know — but they are either too proud, or too devious, to admit it. That makes them bad scientists.
M. Whittemore says:
LOL 🙂 I am extremely happy you have a new graph db, if anything, you have made all this worth it.
That’s it? That is Whittemore’s response?? If that is the best he can do, he is inept. Why? Because MW’s complaint was that the previous graph I linked to had stopped short of Mann’s Hokey Stick. So, fine gentleman that I am, I assisted MW by posting a recent graph showing there is no hokey stick now. But his response indicates that Mr Whittemore is totally out of rational arguments. Hey, Mann has been thoroughly debunked. And now, even his lemming is at a loss for any counter other than “LOL”.
Next, Whittemore says:
Of cause if you want to have a good idea of the temperature of the Earth it has been found that over the last 500 million years (as far as we have proxys) CO2 has governed the temperature of the Earth
That is another assertion, with no basis in fact. Nothing like that has been “found”. On all time scales, from months to hundreds of millennia, multiple observations show conclusively that ∆CO2 follows ∆T [plenty of charts are available, just ask].
Effect cannot precede cause [except in the minds of the wacky climate alarmist cultists]; therefore, CO2 cannot “govern the temperature of the Earth”. At most, CO2 is a very minor 3rd-order forcing, which is swamped by many larger effects. That is why there has been no global warming for the past 17+ years, despite a large increase in harmless and beneficial CO2. <—[this is entirely logical. It is based on verifiable empirical evidence. But unfortunately, it will never convince the hard-core alarmist cultists.]
So Whittemore keeps digging:
Even Lovejoys paper has shown that CO2 is the cause of the recent warming.
As I have shown above, Lovejoy showed no such thing. He completely disregards both the Scientific Method, and the climate Null Hypothesis: if there is a “human fingerprint”, then why is it completely invisible? Lovejoy has no answer.
As mkelley says above: If CO2 was the control agent, why have an ice age when the PPM was higher than today?
Why indeed? And the ppm were many times higher in ice ages. CO2 was also much lower during warming cycles; there is simply no correlation with temperature. Empirical observations prove conclusively that CO2 has no cause-and-effect relationship with temperature. None whatever.
But some folks will believe anything that feeds their True Belief. They will endlessly cherry-pick, and then dispense with all facts that do not support their catastrophic runaway global warming belief system. That is not science, that’s witch doctor ju-ju. Or religion. It is anything but science.
dbstealey says:
April 17, 2014 at 7:11 pm
Your understanding of science is belittling! Lovejoy said he had an influx of purported rebuttals! Which he asserts with facts, unlike yourself db. Lovejoy has blown your null out of the water, I feel sorry for you. Of cause you will still have the intellect to think a single proxy record could show a multiproxy hockey stick! From the year 1855! And just so everyone can see the facts, something db knows nothing about, the hockey stick has been tested and retested http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/mann2008/mann2008.html
“There is a lot of statistical mumbo-jumbo in Lovejoy’s paper” LOL
I cant believe you are still bring up your use of that faked graph of yours, I am not discussing the hockey stick db, I was pointing out your wilful use of the graph and the fact you did not even try to understand what it was your graph was saying. You can try your best to change the subject to the hockey stick, but you have lost any real credibility in my eyes and I am sure many others.
For you to be given a published peer review paper that has factually and empirically found a correlation between CO2 and the temperature of the Earth over the last 500 million years, a paper that has not been rebutted and is accepted science.. This is what you say “That is another assertion, with no basis in fact.” You db are losing your pathetic fight
See, Uncertainty Measurement. N.I.S.T. or Metrology, Uncertainty Measurement.
Well, that was sort of helpful. I’d rather look at the methods and code directly than read Dr. Lovejoy talking about them, because I still wonder if I’m doing this the way he did it. Anyway, I still have some reservations, conceptually.
Looking at the root mean squared of the differences between the datasets over time and finding a small number tells you that the datasets predict each other well over time. They agree. (BTW, I’m still checking that the .05C number is in fact so, but I’m willing to take on faith that Dr. Lovejoy didn’t compute this wrong for now. But when I try to work out the RMS of the differences between say GISS and NOAA for 2012, I end up with a much bigger number, .16C. Maybe I need to look at more data. Maybe I’m just making some stupid mistake.) There’s not much error if you define error as difference between the datasets. My problem is: how confident am I that the datasets reflect reality in the first place? Oh, not in recent times. But going back to the early days? RMS between the sets by itself isn’t going to give any insights into systematic errors that affect all of the datasets, just independent errors.
Of course Dr. Lovejoy talks about this.
Well, I gotta understand Haar fluctuations to understand that. And then I gots to buy it.
It’s certainly interesting anyway.
One little point for the 0.05: work out the mean of the four series and then look at the statistics of the differences between each series and the overall means. Do this over a range of scales. Using Haar is best – the averaging gives more converging results – but it shouldn’t be too different than raw differneces.
Thanks Dr. Lovejoy.
M. Whittemore says:
Your understanding of science is belittling!
Don’t feel belittled, Michael. I know my understanding of science has that effect on you, but all you need to do is read WUWT for a few years, and you will begin to get up to speed on the science.
Also, you wrote:
Lovejoy said he had an influx of purported rebuttals.
Mikey, misrepresenting Lovejoy’s comment doesn’t help your case [such as it is]. Lovejoy wrote that he has been “flooded” with rebuttals to his paper. “Flooded” is a much more accurate term than your simple ‘influx’.
Why would there be a flood of rebuttals? It is clearly because Lovejoy’s paper is just another weak attempt to disregard mountains of empirical evidence by using statistical ju-ju – the same ju-ju that has been falsified by other statistcians. So, who to believe? The real world? Or Prof Lovejoy? Because they cannot both be right.
Next, Mikey says:
I cant believe you are still bring up your use of that faked graph of yours
You are dissembling. I set you straight on that a couple of times now: that is not ‘my’ graph; that is Prof R.B. Alley’s graph. You may not know who Alley is. He is a respected climatologist. Take it up with him if you don’t like his graph. Go tell him it’s “fake”. Report back what he tells you.
You hate the empirical facts I post, because they are not refuted by the only Authority that is totally credible: Planet Earth. They are facts that the planet provides to us. You hate them, because they debunk your alarmist nonsense.
Next, Mikey says:
For you to be given a published peer review paper that has factually and empirically found a correlation between CO2 and the temperature of the Earth over the last 500 million years, a paper that has not been rebutted and is accepted science…
When will Mikey stop making false assertions? Probably never. Lovejoy’s paper did not find anything “empirically”. You don’t seem to know what that word means. As I have shown you repeatedly, using empirical observations, the only correlation between CO2 and temperature shows that ∆CO2 is caused by ∆T. There are no empirical observations over the past 400,000 years that show changes in T being caused by changes in CO2. None at all. That proves that changes in CO2 are caused by changes in T; not vice-versa. CO2 is responsible for some negligible warming at current concentrations. But it is so tiny that it is not even measurable. All measured changes show that ∆T causes ∆CO2. There are no exceptions.
You have causation backwards, therefore naturally your conclusions are wrong. That is why you keep reiterating your chart nonsense. Just because you keep saying it means nothing. You accuse Alley of a “fake” chart, when the chart you posted has no provenance whatever. It was fabricated and overwritten by one of the alarmist blogs you frequent. Forget them, they are sources of misinformation.
Stick around here, where you will begin to learn something – if you are able to open your mind enough. Be skeptical of all the wild-eyed “carbon” claims. Not only are they false alarms, but being a skeptic is the only honest way to approach science. Skeptical scientists are the only honest kind of scientist.
Next, you write your laughably impotent words: You db are losing your pathetic fight.
Mikey, that is simply another one of your false assertions. You are a newbie here, and you don’t understand that it is assertions like that which are truly pathetic. If skeptics were losing the fight, then Michael Mann would not be going ballistic, and calling skeptics all sorts of names. He would not feel the need to lie about his non-existent Nobel prize, or use false proxies like Tiljander’s. If we were losing this fight, polling results would not be showing that the public is rapidly losing interest in your “carbon” scare. If we were losing this fight, you would not feel that you have to keep re-posting your debunked nonsense about Alley’s “fake” chart.
Finally, the following facts have never been refuted:
1. CO2 is harmless. No global harm from the rise in CO2 has ever been identified.
2. CO2 is beneficial. The biosphere is measurably greening as a direct result of the added CO2.
Those two facts destroy the false “carbon” alarm. Unless you can credibly refute those facts, you have lost the debate.
Mikey, you are under the spell of a religious True Belief, therefore you are incapable of deviating from the Algore Gospel. Fortunately, your little clique is getting smaller by the day. People just do not care about the “carbon” nonsense any more. It’s an old scare. It’s tired. Worn out. And there are only a few of your kind left.
Pretty soon, you might be the only one.
dbstealey says:
April 18, 2014 at 1:43 pm
This paper shows that globally during the last ice age over 90% of warming happen before CO2 rise. Temperature lagged CO2 rise. http://sciences.blogs.liberation.fr/files/shakun-et-al.pdf
This paper shows that CO2 was over 9000ppm in the past, this can’t be caused by temperature it is produced from volcanic eruptions. Of cause it also shows that even though co2 was over 9000ppm it had to be that high to keep the earth from going into an ice age because the sun was 4% weaker back then. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6002/356.full.pdf
Here is your graph again and as everyone can see the graph is fine it’s what you have added to it. http://i.snag.gy/BztF1.jpg
Correction, my last comment was meant to to say 90% of warming happen AFTER CO2 rise.
Regarding my 9000ppm paper you have to pay for it. This link is free https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEAQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk%2Fpeople%2Fmem%2Fco2-main-ct-knob-lacis-sci10.pdf&rct=j&q=control%20knob%20co2&ei=jmBSU6WcO8WplQX2r4CwAg&usg=AFQjCNFmp08uoSMa6dkcdmfYn0r87Wxwxg&bvm=bv.65058239,d.dGI
My bad I have been referencing the wrong paper. This is the right paper regarding 9000ppm. http://droyer.web.wesleyan.edu/PhanCO2(GCA).pdf
Posted on April 11, 2014
By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
Figure 2: Tampering with the U.S. temperature record. The GISS record from 1990-2008 (right panel) shows 1934 0.1 Cº lower and 1998 0.3 Cº higher than the same record in its original 1999 version (left panel). This tampering, calculated to increase the apparent warming trend over the 20th century, is more than 13 times the tiny measurement error mentioned by Lovejoy. The startling changes to the dataset between the 1999 and 2008 versions, first noticed by Steven Goddard, are clearly seen if the two slides are repeatedly shown one after the other as a blink comparator.
Rather sloppy work, presumably ‘1990-2008’ should be 1880-2008?
“The startling changes to the dataset between the 1999 and 2008 versions, first noticed by Steven Goddard”
Really ‘startling changes’? They were documented in 2001 and were done by the USHCN, you shouldn’t believe anything the pseudonymous ‘Steve Goddard’ tells you.
The ‘tampering’ you refer to includes:
Time of observation debiasing,
Station history adjustment,
Filling of missing original data.
Which of those do you believe to be inappropriate?
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2001/2001_Hansen_etal_1.pdf
Once again CAGW religious acolyte Michael Whittemore shows us how wrong he is.
Changes in global temperature [T] cause changes in CO2 – not vice versa. There is plenty of empirical evidence proving that cause and effect. But there is NO long term empirical evidence showing that changes in CO2 cause changes in global T. All the evidence shows that ∆T is the cause of ∆CO2. Prof Caillon’s peer reviewed paper showed the same thing.
When someone refuses to accept verifiable real world evidence, they are a religious True Believer. But the rest of us can see that T is the cause of CO2, and that fact alone completely destroys the “carbon” false alarm.
Also, that ridiculous grant-trolling paper Mikey linked to claiming that CO2 is the planet’s “control knob” is pseudo-scientific nonsense. Despite the claims, there is no scientific evidence supporting that assertion — as I show in numerous links.
Empirical [real world] evidence and bservations always trump assertions, and all empirical evidence for at least the past 400,000 years shows conclusivly that T leads CO2 – not vice versa.
[Phil. says: “Rather sloppy work”. I wonder, did the pseudonymous Phil. miss the post right above his? Or the 2:16 am post? If so, rather sloppy.☺]
At 7:30 AM on 20 April, dbstealey had written:
There must be hundreds of thousands of ex-Biology majors in the world’s population, and absent that consideration there are millions of people with experience of setting up and maintaining aquaria, and all of these folks have got to be familiar (in theory or in practice) with Henry’s Law and the temperature dependency of the Henry coefficient.
All other things being equal, because the partial pressure of a gas dissolved in water increases with warming (inducing escape of the gas from the water into the atmosphere), the “carrying capacity” of that volume of water – it’s ability to retain that gas in solution – drops off with temperature increase.
By far the planet Earth’s biggest inorganic “sink” of carbon dioxide is the quantity dissolved in big bodies of water which interface with the atmosphere. If those big bodies of water warm for any reason, they lose “carrying capacity” with regard to dissolved gases, including nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide.
Thus significant (global) oceanic warming must induce similarly significant increases in atmospheric CO2 content. That’s where the rising partial pressure of dissolved carbon dioxide sends the molecules.
Thus the “fossil” assessments of atmospheric carbon dioxide levels provided by ice core analyses demonstrate (and will always demonstrate) that oceanic warming has always preceded increases in CO2 as a trace component of the atmosphere.
This ain’t just “peer-reviewed science” but the manifestation of a well-known and unimpeachable law of physics.
dbstealey says:
April 20, 2014 at 7:30 am
[Phil. says: “Rather sloppy work”. I wonder, did Phil. miss the post right above his? If so, rather sloppy.☺]
I didn’t miss it, I’m rather puzzled as to what relevance you think Whittemore’s referencing the wrong paper has to my critique of Monckton’s post?
While we’re at it:
dbstealey says:
April 17, 2014 at 7:11 pm
There is a lot of statistical mumbo-jumbo in Lovejoy’s paper, but I am satisfied when a professional statistician, William Briggs, says it’s hooey. [I also wonder what Prof Wegman would say about Lovejoy’s statistical mumbo-jumbo.]
Wegman! A serial plagiarist whose understanding of the statistics was so poor that he regurgitated what M&M gave him and even failed to understand it properly. I guess he’d continue to repeat whatever he’s told.
Phil. says:
April 20, 2014 at 9:03 am
“Wegman! A serial plagiarist whose understanding of the statistics was so poor that he regurgitated what M&M gave him and even failed to understand it properly.”
I see we have arrived at the height of objective scientific understanding.
I can see why you would look at a single temperature data proxy from Antarctica and try and pull it off as a global proxy to shows a correlation with CO2. You did it before with your Greenland single proxy which you altered to make everyone think it ended with the hockey stick http://i.snag.gy/BztF1.jpg. It does not work like that. But to my utter surprise you have actually referenced a peer reviewed paper! It’s a fantastic start to your understanding of science. But if you actually read the paper it says
and here is a link to the paper http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7392/full/nature10915.html
as you can see there is no correlation. But when you consider forcing from the sun, which was 4% weaker 500 million years ago you find a perfect correlation. As can be seen in this graph http://sustainableloudoun.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/fi3.png from this paper http://droyer.web.wesleyan.edu/PhanCO2(GCA).pdf
“The CH4 increase at 2810 m [would] thus signal a first warming in the North […] CO2 increase clearly precedes the Northern Hemi-sphere deglaciation […] This sequence of events is till in full agreement with the idea that CO2 plays, through its greenhouse effect, a key role in amplifying the initial orbital forcing.”
This information led to a study that looked at global temperature proxys of both the northern and southern hemispheres during the last deglaciation. What they found was that when you get a global temperature, CO2 lags temperature rise. They found that over 90% of the warming that happened on Earth all took place after CO2 rise. Here is the graph from the paper with the yellow dots being CO2 and the blue line being the global temperature
The last point I need to explain is CO2 and temperature correlating over the last 500 million years. I know you like graphs so I will link some. So here is a graph that shows CO2 and temperature over the last 500 million years
I am grateful that you referenced a paper db, but it was from 2003 and a lot has happened in science since then.
– High Priest –
Tucci78 is correct, and he gives a very clear explanation of why CO2 follows temperature.
But if folks like Michael Whittemore accept that cause and effect relationship, then their entire rationale for demonizing carbon is lost.
There is no empirical evidence showing that T follows CO2 on any extended time frame. That happened briefly, from about 1980 – 1997. That anomaly has reverted to it’s long established causation. But it was enough to stir up Hansen and many other riders on the grant gravy train.
I can’t really blame them for chasing taxpayer loot [actually, I can]. But the ones who confound me are folks like Michael Whittemore, who are ridden with confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. They cherry-pick only those ‘facts’ that support their [Belief], and reject everything else — like hundreds of thousands of years of ice core evidence.
The nonsense doesn’t stop there. Whittemore repeatedly calls the graph I posted “your graph”, and “that faked graph of yours”. Whenever I point out that it is R.B. Alley’s graph, and that the faked graph is the one Whittemore posted, it goes right over his head. Bias and dissonance.
MW says: I am grateful that you referenced a paper db, but it was from 2003 and a lot has happened in science since then.
This is another problem with the swivel-eyed runaway global warming contingent. First, the papers Whittemore cites are not science. They are evidence-free opinions. Scientific truth doesn’t change, and a 10-year old paper is actually fairly new. But Whittemore doesn’t like what it says, so he simply rejects it out of hand, for no credible reason. More cherry-picking of what he wants to hear, and what he doesn’t. That is what religious Belief does. Dogma is all.
Next, the pseudonymous “Phil.” says:
“Wegman! A serial plagiarist whose understanding of the statistics was so poor…
Pure ad-hom; zero science. Prof Wegman is tarred and feathered by the pseudonymous Phil. for one reason: Wegman exposed Mann’s shenanigans. Wegman was Chairman of National Research Council’s Committee on Applied Statistics, but the pseudonymous Phil. falsely claims that Wegman does not understand statistics.
When folks like the pseudonymous Phil. must resort to that kind of underhanded ad hominem attack, it is obvious to the most casual observer that he has lost the science debate.
∆T causes ∆CO2. Try falsifying that, instead of name-calling and fabricated accusations.
Finally, the pseudonymous Phil. says:
I’m rather puzzled as to what relevance you think Whittemore’s referencing the wrong paper has to my critique of Monckton’s post?
It is because the pseudonymous Phil. wrote about Lord Monckton:
Rather sloppy work, presumably ’1990-2008′ should be 1880-2008…
I was merely pointing out to the pseudonymous Phil. that Whittemore had made the same kind of errors, but the pseudonymous Phil. never attacked him for being ‘sloppy’. But the pseudonymous Phil. is so easily “puzzled”. ☺
Tucci78 says:
April 20, 2014 at 9:19 am
There must be hundreds of thousands of ex-Biology majors in the world’s population, and absent that consideration there are millions of people with experience of setting up and maintaining aquaria, and all of these folks have got to be familiar (in theory or in practice) with Henry’s Law and the temperature dependency of the Henry coefficient.
All other things being equal, because the partial pressure of a gas dissolved in water increases with warming (inducing escape of the gas from the water into the atmosphere), the “carrying capacity” of that volume of water – it’s ability to retain that gas in solution – drops off with temperature increase.
By far the planet Earth’s biggest inorganic “sink” of carbon dioxide is the quantity dissolved in big bodies of water which interface with the atmosphere. If those big bodies of water warm for any reason, they lose “carrying capacity” with regard to dissolved gases, including nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide.
Thus significant (global) oceanic warming must induce similarly significant increases in atmospheric CO2 content. That’s where the rising partial pressure of dissolved carbon dioxide sends the molecules.
Thus the “fossil” assessments of atmospheric carbon dioxide levels provided by ice core analyses demonstrate (and will always demonstrate) that oceanic warming has always preceded increases in CO2 as a trace component of the atmosphere.
This ain’t just “peer-reviewed science” but the manifestation of a well-known and unimpeachable law of physics.
Indeed, but it works both ways, if sufficient CO2 is added to the atmosphere to maintain the concentration above the Henry’s Law value the flow is from atmosphere to ocean, unless the ocean temperature is increasing even faster.
The argument that atmospheric CO2 is going up because of increasing ocean temperature doesn’t work very well with the idea of a ‘hiatus’ in global temperature over the last 15+ years since CO2 has increased about 50ppm during that time!
At 10:56 AM on 20 April, confronted with the ineluctability of Henry’s Law, Phil. weasels:
There is no “argument that atmospheric CO2 is going up because of increasing ocean temperature “ at the present time, you loon. Have I disparaged Keeling’s work, which includes (and has continued to be confirmed by) isotopic analyses of the undeniably anthropogenic character of the modern-era trace increase in this trace atmospheric gas component, proving its origin as the product of purposeful fossil petrochemicals’ combustion? Indeed, is there verifiable evidence to the effect that the “ocean temperature” (I’m assuming that “overall” is intended here) has actually been “increasing” in the century-and-a-half during which instrumental thermometry has been possible?
Despite the progressing warmist corruption of oceanography by way of political funding and “pal review” in the scientific periodicals over the past thirty years or so (see Climategate), bathythermographic data collection has been held to standards of rigor by military necessity, for oceanic temperature gradients figure large in the sonographic imaging techniques critically important in submarine and antisubmarine warfare. As a consequence of such information gathering (to the extent that these data are not held secret for the preservation of military advantage), we know that the oceans overall have not been warming to any significant extent when it comes to the Henry coefficient, and therefore outgassing of dissolved CO2 could to no real degree have figured in any of the observed increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations.
Sure, that increase is in atmospheric CO2 anthropogenic. Since the beginning of the First Industrial Revolution (which corresponded coincidentally with the end of the Little Ice Age), there’s no argument that the combustion of coal – a fossil fuel – has been continuous and accelerating. However, has the resultant increase in CO2 been adverse in its effects? Is there any evidence to support any contention that said increase – and more, as anthropogenic CO2 release is projected to increase further – could ever be adverse?
In spite of billions upon billions of credit units (dollars, Euros, yen, pounds, whatever) thrown down the rat hole of alarmist “climate research” over the decades, no such evidence has yet been presented by any of the third-rate academics with second-rate credentials who’ve consistently proven themselves to be first-rate charlatans conniving with the bloated kleptocrats pushing the IPCC agenda.
If this trace anthropogenic increase in the trace carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere were sufficient to engender increases in atmospheric CO2 partial pressure such that the dissolution of carbon dioxide in ocean water were mensurably increased thereby, there would surely be experimental demonstration of the degree and extent to which this phenomenon might take place.
Right?
I’m a medical doctor, with my own experience in the marine biology lab having been back during the Nixon Administration, but it’s not rocket science to devise such methodology in vitro, even with nothing more than the equipment available (for example) in the average community hospital. We run arterial blood gases analyses every goddam day as a matter of routine.
Surely our grant-sucking “climate science” quacks have designed and completed demonstrations of the atmospheric/oceanic CO2 exchanges dictated by Henry’s Law at least a hundred times or more – trying to grind out some sort of publicity in favor of their “activist messaging” (and their further raids upon the public purse) – with far more sophisticated and expensive means of instrumental analysis since their catastrophe caterwauling began back in the ’80s.
So (pace the field of oceanography) does your blather hold water?
Hrm. No evidence.
Of course, the results of such investigations having proven “disappointing,” they probably haven’t gotten into the vauntedly peer-reviewed literature much….
dbstealey says:
its not rocket science.. You really need to try and stop thinking one proxy temperature record can be used as a global indicator.
April 20, 2014 at 10:46 am
You dont really expect anyone to believe that the graph you referenced which shows a hockey stick from a Greenland ice core that ended in 1875.. was created by R. Alley right?
Regarding Henry coefficient, that is how CO2 is released out of the oceans during the last deglaciation! There was no cars back then db! But Temperature lagged behind CO2 rise as can be seen in this graph
Regarding the paper you referenced LOL I like what it says db, I even quoted it remember?
“The CH4 increase at 2810 m [would] thus signal a first warming in the North […] CO2 increase clearly precedes the Northern Hemi-sphere deglaciation […] This sequence of events is till in full agreement with the idea that CO2 plays, through its greenhouse effect, a key role in amplifying the initial orbital forcing.”
– High Priest –
Phil. says:
April 20, 2014 at 10:56 am
Just a quick point, ocean warming has not slowed down nor has sea level rising. But yes ocean acidification is continuing due to anthropogenic CO2. But the way they determine if the rising CO2 is anthropogenic is to measure the reduction of Oxygen from the atmosphere and the amounts of fossil fuels burned. CO2 that is formed during chemical combustion also has a specific chemical structure that can be distinguished from natural CO2.
dbstealey says:
April 16, 2014 at 11:03 am
Michael Whittemore says:
“I noticed before you linking your Greenland temperature record which can be seen here http://i.snag.gy/BztF1.jpg Last time we spoke I told you that it was a fake!”
Take up your truly ignorant complaint with Prof. R.B. Alley. He provided the data, as you could see right in the chart if you had only looked.
Yes, he provided the data but whoever drew your graph used an incorrect time-axis and consequently misrepresented it!
Tucci nails it. There is zero evidence that the rise in CO2 is harmful in any way. That makes the carbon scare a complete waste of time and money. I have no idea why the true believers continue to flog that dead horse. Is it the inability to admit being flat wrong? Or is it due to mental illness?
Michael Whittemore changes the subject, and talks about methane. But he is the only one who cares. No one else has even mentioned it. Methane is a strawman argument that he set up and then tries to knock down. But methane doesn’t matter. That’s why that particular arm-waving scare has gotten no traction. Who cares?
MW continues:
Just a quick point, ocean warming has not slowed down nor has sea level rising. But yes ocean acidification is continuing due to anthropogenic CO2.
Ah. Another strawman. No one is arguing that ocean warming and sea level rises are not happening. Both are normal and natural.
But the universal alarmist predictions were that sea level rise and ocean warming would be accelerating rapidly by now. That has not happened. The predictions were wrong.
It is the same with ocean “acidification”. Ain’t happening. Daily testing at the Monterey Bay aquarium inlet pipe [from a mile out in the ocean] shows no so-called “acidification” since the aquarium was built.
Finally: the CO2 added to the atmosphere is a net benefit, with no downside. Why would anyone complain about something that is a clear benefit? It is like complaining that there are antibiotics in the world. Or fossil fuels. Both are so beneficial that anyone complaining about them must have a screw loose.