Sometimes you just have to laugh. One of my blog spawn (a not so anonymous academic at a “respected institution of higher learning”) decided to have a go at our post: Despicable climate ugliness courtesy of Lawrence Torcello – assistant professor of philosophy at Rochester Institute of Technology
Yet in his typical ivory tower enabled myopia, his case gets weakened by yet another (not so) anonymous coward who’s hoping for my perp walk to The Hague:
But the Nazis were only small potatoes – they merely murdered millions. But right now, today, we are witnessing the murder-in-slow-motion of at least a billion people. A crime perpetrated primarily through the use of a concerted propaganda campaign. Can anyone explain to me how it was proper to prosecute Goebbels, yet the Koch brothers and the former head of Exxon Mobil should not be similarly prosecuted?
And yes, I believe Anthony Watts should be frogmarched to The Hague as well. No question, in my mind. In fact, I find the idea of a defense of his actions ethically reprehensible.
That comment was written by “gingerbaker” who just happens to be easy to find, since the link in his comment to his photo website and photo store is public information.
So, Bill Forsyth who I believe is “Ginger Baker”, you are welcome to tell me to my face right here, that exercising my constitutional free speech right to an opinion on climate is worthy of a war crimes style trial.
UPDATE: Speaking of musical connections (“Ginger Baker” is the drummer in Cream) maybe we can piggyback this trial onto the other first amendment trial, the Mann-Steyn Steamroller
For you scooter riding youngsters, who don’t get the joke, see this.
UPDATE2: Since the academic host of “and then theres hatespeech physics” decided that he’d better disappear the comment, once word got out he was being criticized for it, I offer this helpful screencap:
UPDATE3: Brandon Schollenberger looks at the larger universe of stupid surrounding that comment and the website, saying Stupidity is the real offense.
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bushbunny says:
March 19, 2014 at 8:25 pm
“Hardly, Richard is not a socialist. Anyway, I bet there are many socialists that are also skeptics.”
I don’t come here for the politics, as far as Climate Science goes I’m as skeptical as anyone here about the global scam, I’m a Socialist, Trade unionist, working class guy, I never killed anyone nor wanted to kill anyone, my personal politics may upset a few people writing on here, but my views on climate and the greens would align nicely with many of you. I read this blog regularly and always find something interesting, but it concerns me when I read comments that always seek to define this issue as a battle between left and right, leave it out, thats the greens way of arguing, “paid by big oil” etc. this issue is too important to get into that sidetrack, stick to the facts, thats what I consider this blog to be about, facts.
Nazi is extreme right wing, Communism is extreme left wing, green is just extreme hippy.
the key word is “extreme”.
I don’t think Thomas that our IPs would interest anyone if they want to hack people’s computers they can do it without us knowing. And not believing in CO2 or meteors causing climate change ain’t a crime. But feeding people with misinformation about what causes climate change and prohibiting or restricting life saving energy sources blamed is, well in my mind at least.
Tommie EllyFritz sez:
“But thank you all for providing your IPs to my archived log files.”
A Fool’s errand. You scare no one.
I’m sure NSA can identify anyone posting here >> THAT is scary.
Well Americans have the NSA, we don’t in Australia. But we have ASIO so far so good, just don’t get paranoid.
I had an ex husband like some trolls here. If he was the last to open the fridge and the milk jug was turned over, they would blame one of the kids. If you blame alarmists for lying through their teeth, they are saying we are Nazis and should be put away for our rebuttal. What country do they live in??? Sounds like communist China or Russia. Or a Spanish inquisition and burning witches at the stake. Totally a load of wankers, or totally deranged?.
Some of the articles at TEF’s site are interesting. Strangely however, none of them have any comments. Telling…
SpeedOfDark:
re your post at March 19, 2014 at 9:54 pm.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/19/quote-of-the-week-get-your-war-crimes-trial-tickets-now/#comment-1594550
Yes, well said!
But you state the truth and extremists are not interested in truth. They are only interested in spreading their excuses for their actions which are dangerous because extremism leads to totalitarianism.
The claim that ‘the pause’ does not exist is merely an example of extremist AGW-promoters making an excuse to themselves for the failure of their beliefs.
The claim that the ultra-right is extreme left is merely an example of the rabid right making an excuse to themselves for the history of destruction caused by their beliefs.
etc.
Richard
Why would anyone with a modicum of common sense even think that CAGW would cause a billion deaths? In other words, if it gets hotter, people die, so its better for it to get colder – sure as hell it ain’t gonna stay the same! ANybody ever heard of freezing to death?????
I’m worried about this. Such crazy accusations could be picked up by more hands-on oriented persons. While one should never be swayed by threats, I hope proper precautions are taken by those who could be objects of more than hate speech.
“But thank you all for providing your IPs to my archived log files.”
Idiot. All you have is the IP address of the shared wireless router.
In my case, the router in a public library.
It’s always the smart asses who are dumb…
Calling the Nazis small potatoes IS denial 101, after all, isn’t that the gist of those disreputable fellows?
Perhaps Ginger Baker also wants those of us who don’t believe in the Warmist propaganda to be tattooed and put in camps.
Ed, ‘Mr’ Jones says:
I can only imagine how frantically Elifritz would cling to ‘Principles’ and the Constitution, were others painting the Scarlet letter upon HIM.
And about the silly Elfritz threat:
A Fool’s errand. You scare no one.
Very true. The far Left is always threatening normal folks. But the Elf’s threats sound like they come from a pre-pubescent kid in his mom’s basement: “They will pay, oh yes, they will pay!” People like Elfritz make for fun reading here. He wants to make readers think he is important, when he is only impotent.
And regarding your son’s comment: “Constitutional Law is really interesting, but there will probably be no need for it in ten years”. I think we are at that point already.
richardscourtney says:
March 19, 2014 at 11:35 pm
The claim that the ultra-right is extreme left is merely an example of the rabid right making an excuse to themselves for the history of destruction caused by their beliefs.
============================
Richard, your posts countering CAGW fanaticism are always well argued and worth reading but, on politics, you display all the attributes of a man who could start a fight in an empty room. It really matters not whether the N*z*s were socialists or Stalin killed more than Adolf or Mussolini started life as a communist or that Oswald Moseley was a Labour MP for several years before leaving to form the British Union of Fascists. The key, word which unites these people (and many others) is ‘extreme’. I don’t think it matters if one’s family is massacred by those on the left or the right, they are still massacred.
So. please Richard, we get it. You are a man of the left. You don’t like the politics of those on the right. That’s fine.
Out of interest, I DO equate the extreme left with the extreme right. Start at any point on a circle and travel 180 degrees in either direction and you wind up in exactly the same place and it really doesn’t matter what your motivation was in deciding to get there by moving to the left or to the right. The key battle is between liberty and authority which I think you get as you always manage to argue most cogently against the authoritarianism of the CAGW fanatics.
Anyway, you promised to buy me a pint of cider when I offered my description of a certain former LibDem politician so you are, in my book, ok.
You know, thinking about it, said academics petulant little outburst is a bit rich. Coming as it does from a faction known to want Earth’s population reduced significantly to ‘sustainable’ levels.
If only! For a list of 20-plus things that would be happening (but aren’t) if climate contrarians were actually well-organized and well-funded, see my WUWT guest-thread, “Notes from Skull Island” at http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/16/notes-from-skull-island-why-skeptics-arent-well-funded-and-well-organized/
Mr Green Genes:
Sincere thanks for your post at March 20, 2014 at 3:10 am in reply to my post at March 19, 2014 at 11:35 pm which I wrote in support the excellent post by SpeedOfDark at March 19, 2014 at 9:54 pm and is here.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/19/quote-of-the-week-get-your-war-crimes-trial-tickets-now/#comment-1594550
The matter at issue is of the gravest importance, but as you say
YES! THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT!
As I said to SpeedOfDark in my post you have answered
You have ignored that and replied saying to me
NO! YOU DON’T GET IT!
We allow extremists of any kind a free-reign when we allow them to offload their responsibilities onto others. Stal1n was of the left and killed millions. H1tler was of the right and killed millions. Pol Pot was green and killed many thousands.
The assertion that the left, or the right, or greens. or etc. are free from the effects of extremism is a very, very dangerous falsehood.
This thread is about an assertion concerning our host that
Please note the nature of that argument; i.e. the view is espoused that AW has views which put him in a category where it is “ethically reprehensible” to defend his actions which consist solely of stating his views notably on his blog.
Similarly, the ridiculous assertion that only the left – or only the right – commit harm generates a category which it is “ethically reprehensible” to defend. The claim that the ultra-right must be left wing because they do horrors is such a false catergorisation. And it is extremely ironic that right-wing extremists have used this thread to promote their nefarious falsehood.
In my view all people of good will need to unite in opposition to extremism and totalitarianism wherever an whenever it appears whether it is from the left, or the right, or from anywhere else. When you recognise that is what I am saying then you will have ‘got it’.
Richard
PS I still await your visit to the West Country so I can buy you that pint. But as a result of recent medical matters I need a few days notice if I am to attend the event.
richardscourtney says:
March 20, 2014 at 4:24 am
=======================
Richard, I apologise if I didn’t express myself very clearly, in particular with my remark:-
So. please Richard, we get it. You are a man of the left. You don’t like the politics of those on the right. That’s fine.
It was meant to be read in the context of my later comment:-
The key battle is between liberty and authority which I think you get as you always manage to argue most cogently against the authoritarianism of the CAGW fanatics.
On reading that latter comment, it is a little clumsy – maybe I should have used the words libertarianism and authoritarianism for greater clarity. Either way, I actually think we are vigorously agreeing with each other! The extremism is the thing, not the direction.
As is invariably the case, those who want to prosecute people for daring to differ:
about a set of facts that the majority of scientists clearly agree on.
haven’t a clue about the workings of science. The author of the above line, and a closet totalitarian, also describes himself as a philosopher whose research interests include “ethical theory”. In my experience, whenever I find myself in violent disagreement with a medical article, it’s most likely written by an “ethicist”. Most medical ethics is, IMHO, unethical.
Science doesn’t operate by consensus. That should be obvious to anyone with a modicum of knowledge about science but so much misinformation about the workings of science has been distributed via the MSM that I have to constantly correct colleagues of mine who speak of the “science” of medicine. Medicine is an art, not a science as medicine, to a large degree, operates by consensus.
In a true science, 99.99% of scientists can hold a particular view but it only takes one scientist with a new theory that explains reality better than the views of the 99.99% to totally demolish “scientific consensus”. At this time CAGW as a scientific theory has been disproven. Just because those whose careers are based on the veracity of CAGW continue to support it makes not a whit of difference to the truth of the CAGW theory which has now morphed into a non-disprovable religious belief. Usually when people start talking about imprisoning those who disagree with them one knows that they’ve run out of scientific arguments and are seeking to silence those who have clearly proven them wrong.
Two of the factors that may be responsible for such a widely held misconception of science are, IMO, “medical science” and the legal system. Medicine makes a very big deal about consensus. The BC College of Physicians makes it clear to physicians that if their views on particular aspects of medicine are at variance with the consensus view, then they must so indicate in any communication to the public or they face loss of medical licensure. This is a rather blunt instrument for keeping physicians in line. When one looks in detail at various aspects of medicine, virtually every field contains a consensus view that is valid at a particular date. UpToDate, a resource used widely by physicians for the latest treatments for various conditions, is entirely consensus based and authored by physicians who are deemed the world experts in a particular area. If one practices according to these guidelines then one is virtually guaranteed to not get sued even though the treatment may be the wrong one for an individual patient.
Having come from a neurophysiology and neuropharmacology research background into medicine I found much of medical research to be sorely lacking. Admittedly, much of this is due to the marked heterogeneity of ones experimental subjects and despite disproval of the cholesterol hypothesis of coronary artery disease, this is still the consensus dogma in the US. When I asked a cardiologist at a CME event in Florida why US physicians still adhere to a disproven hypothesis his answer was “because the lawyers still believe in it”. In keeping with the BC College of Physicians guidelines about communication of medical information to the public, I should note that this is my personal view although a well respected cardiologist in BC gave a talk about 7 years ago entitled: Cholesterol; why everything you’ve learned about it is totally wrong
The legal corruption of science is another reason I believe that the public has delusions about the scientific method. Law courts rely on a judges decision as to who constitutes an expert in a given area. I first fell afoul of this unscientific practice the first time I had to appear in court regarding a patient with a brain injury. In keeping with my scientific background, I collected numerous references from medical journals which supported my position and these also corroborated the findings of the neuropsychiatrist who I had sent the patient to. In what I thought was an appropriate use of journal evidence my medical legal report contained references to the papers which I had utilized. The lawyer who was representing my patient was incensed and demanded this material to be removed from the medical legal as I was a GP, not an expert in neurology. My pointing out the years of neurophysiology and neuropharmacology research I’d done was to no avail and that’s when I learned that courts are completely driven by credentialism. In court I was limited to describing my clinical findings and to a larger degree deciphering the handwriting in my chart notes which, embarrassingly, in a few cases I couldn’t read myself.
It makes no difference if an expert witness is correct; what matters is whether the court agrees to their credentials to give testimony regarding a particular aspect of medicine. Again, the unscientific consensus system at work that gives such abominations as the class action lawsuit settlement for women with silicone breast implants based entirely on the testimony of “experts” whereas the science proved the opposite.
A judge choosing the testimony of one scientist expert witness over another scientist expert witness in his final judgement puts far more weight on how well the scientist comes across in a courtroom environment rather than whether the opinion of one expert has a closer match to reality than the other. Lawyers go out of their way to find “expert” witnesses that are more likely to come across well in a courtroom setting rather than finding a scientist who is the most likely to be closer to the truth.
With even the notion of an objective reality under attack in the post-modernist weltanschauung, it’s easy to see how consensus rather than fit to reality of a theory has come to dominate impressions of science. This is profoundly disturbing and the solution is for all readers of WUWT to correct people when they make this fundamental error in conversation. This should especially be the case in challenging “medical science” as a physician operates on heuristics which are learned under the tutelage of skilled practicioners of the art of medicine. A physician is isomorphic to a wetware expert system that, more often than not, can diagnose and suggest treatments for various disorders. Occasionally medicine utilizes the techniques of science but physicians who utilize purely “scientific medicine” perform more poorly than those physicians who utilize their wetware with laboratory evidence as well as personally significant observations of a patient to perform non-algorithmic diagnoses. A skilled physician should be viewed in the same light as a master potter, not a scientist.
Hmm! Last time I messed up the italics. This time it’s the bold. Will I never learn???
Mr Green Genes:
Thankyou for the important clarification you provide at March 20, 2014 at 4:40 am.
Yes, if that is what you intended to say then we are “vigorously agreeing”.
Richard
Crispin in Waterloo says:
March 19, 2014 at 7:01 pm
@richard
>The UN predicts by 2100 Africa will have 4x the population of China today.
++++++
The UN predicts no such thing. They predict the global population will peak in 2050 at about 9 billion.
————-
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/graph-of-day-un-population-projections.html
Boris Gimbarzevsky says:
March 20, 2014 at 4:44 am
That is an excellent analysis of the current situation regarding consensus “science”, the best I’ve seen in a good while.
The tie-in to modern medicine is very interesting as well.
CO2 could indeed be considered climate science’s cholesterol.
I am gingerbaker. I am definitely NOT Bill Forsyth. Please remove his name and link from your post, if you would. It would be appreciated. Thanks.
Of course isn’t that what Mr Forsyth would say??
gingerbaker, whoever he is, misses the best reference. It’s not war crime trials, but rather witch trials. Actual history is good, or Monty Python if you like.
Gingerbaker,
Yet you link to his blog via your handle. If you aren’t Bill Forsyth and don’t speak for him in this, perhaps you should reconsider this practice.
Will you give us your name like an honest man?