
The answer to your question is in your article.
Guest opinion by David Hoffer
Carol, in your recent CNN opinion piece, the headline was “Why are we still debating climate change?”. The very first statement in the article that followed was “There is no debate”.
The answer to your question is actually right in your own article. I’ll get to that in a bit, please bear with me. I wanted to touch on your claim that there is no debate first. I’d like you to consider the following statement, which I provide with no intent of malice whatsoever, only as a means of making a point.
Carol Costello is stupid. There is no debate.
Now what would you think if you saw this in print, followed by a long explanation as to what is wrong with people who don’t agree, and a refusal to examine any facts related to the accusation? I imagine you’d be miffed. I imagine also that any examination of the facts would prove me wrong, I seriously doubt that such a statement would stand up to any fair debate of the matter. Which brings me to a question Carol:
If the facts supporting Climate Change are so obvious, should not debating the facts of the matter strengthen those facts? Just as you would be eager to prove that you are not, in fact, stupid, should you not be equally as eager to prove your opinion by engaging in factual debate?
While you ponder that, and keeping in mind that I did say the answer to your question is in your article and I would get to that, let’s examine the only fact upon which your argument rests, which is that there is a consensus among 97% of scientists. Well Carol, I read that study. Did you? I’m guessing not.
Carol, that study was done by Margaret Zimerman, who sent the survey to 10,257 Earth Scientists. Of those, 3,146 responded. Of those, Ms. Zimmerman excluded all but 77. That fact alone should have your journalistic instincts on high alert. But it gets worse. The two questions which lead to the 97% finding were:
Q1: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” 76 of 79 (96.2%) answered “risen.”
Q2: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” 75 of 77 (97.4%) answered “yes.”
The problem here Carol is that they should have gotten 100% to both questions. The earth has been warming since the Little Ice Age which was 400 years ago. So obviously the answer to the first question would be “risen” even if human influence was zero. As for the second question, you may be surprised to learn that all but a tiny fraction of skeptics agree that rising temperatures are, in part, due to human activity. You see Carol, the debate about climate change is not a simple matter of “yes” or “no”. It is much more nuanced than that. There are questions relating to order of magnitude of change, endangerment related to any change that does occur, and in regard to strategies of mitigation versus adaptation. That study did nothing to determine consensus opinion on any of the central matters of the climate debate. It is not only contrived, but nearly meaningless. But I digress.
You go on to quote studies categorizing the population. I said I’d show you the answer to your headline question in your own article. Well, here it is. Your article goes on to quote results from Anthony Leiserowitz, who categorizes the population as follows:
- Alarmed (16%)
- Concerned (27%)
- Cautious (23%)
- Disengaged (5%)
- Doubtful (12%)
- Dismissive (15%)
Well that hardly seems like a consensus. In fact you go on to claim that the Dismissives are a powerful, well funded, well organized lobby group who are muddying the debate. Well Carol, if the facts are so powerfully on one side of the debate, why begin your opinion piece by categorically insisting that there is no debate? If there is no debate, how is it that only 16% of the citizenry are alarmed? Why, by the definitions in your own article, do 82% of the people think that climate change is something that won’t, for various reasons, have a direct effect on their lives?
But most importantly Carol, if you want to change their minds, would not an open and honest debate of the facts be your most powerful weapon? Are you going to let me accuse you of being stupid, or would you like to prove me wrong?
Lastly Carol, you sum up your article on this statement:
“The good news is, those uninformed minority voices are being quieted by nature and by those who have powerful voices.”
Well Carol, on that second point, I will allow that you are correct. Powerful voices (like yours) are eager to stifle the debate. Oddly, your own article points out the importance of having one if you want the facts as you see them to prevail. Will you use your powerful voice to that end? Or shall we call you stupid, insist there is no debating the matter, and call it a day?
But more importantly Carol, the first part of your statement is wrong. It is a simple matter to see that when one looks at the data, all the predictions of the “consensus” science have failed. Arctic ice retreat has stopped, and Antarctic ice has hit record levels. On a global basis, hurricanes and tornadoes have declined in both frequency and severity. According to the temperature records kept by the “consensus” scientist themselves, the earth hasn’t warmed in close to two decades, despite ever rising levels of CO2. Nature in fact is taking sides in this debate, and not the side you seem to think.
Even the United Nations IPCC, which is consensus climate science central for the world, now admits in their recent report (IPCC AR5) that the climate models themselves are wrong. It is their expert opinion that sensitivity to CO2 lies well below the model estimates. What are the models based upon Carol, if not the science? And if the best scientists in the world, in their capacity as advisors to the United Nations and world governments alike, are collectively stating that the models and the science the models are built on are in doubt, does that not deserve public debate?
Even among the “consensus” scientists themselves Carol, there is now considerable doubt about the science. Does that not give you pause to reconsider your position?
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Excellent, David. The only problem is that open letters very often don’t get read by the very person the letter is aimed at. But I hope it does.
Maybe the coffee hasn’t kicked, maybe the problem is I don’t think I’ve heard of that Costello before, maybe it’s the trial insult, but I have trouble warming up to this post.
I even tried reading Costello’s OpEd piece, but didn’t make it past “97%.”
Okay, she is stupid, but it’s more important to read posts about people like Michael Mann who at least is more dangerous.
Maybe we need a one-size-fits-all response to send to the 97%-ers. They don’t deserve much more.
So, UK Skeptic are you saying she opened her mouth and removed all doubt to to her lack of intelligence?
There is an error in the article. Scientists should answer no to question 2 as humans demonstrably do NOT have a SIGNIFICANT effect on climate.
len at 4:51 am:
“let the warmists own the political and social sphere … which they do”
That would be fine if they didn’t have their hand in my wallet (and worse). The warmist agenda is not benign.
Erm, she’s a journalist, and this was almost certainly a put-up job by our favourite fuzzy-faced, sueball-lobbing Climate Scientist™ and his cohorts. It’s the next goalpost move for when the extreme weather event attribution meme is debunked. It’s also classic marketing behaviour mixed in with the old boxing technique of keeping your opponent on the back foot… never let your opponent regain their balance and concentrate on one spot.
I’m not saying don’t tell her she’s clearly full of it, but I am saying these are tactics, and they’ve worked very well so far. Sceptics need to be more like Steve McIntyre, and concentrate on pecking away at one spot, not being distracted by shiny things.
why on earth are some sceptics still trying to frame CAGW as a “left” thing? no wonder we can’t make headway against this scam.
yes, you could call the crazy Readfearn & The Guardian “leftist” but what was Readfearn when he pushed the same badly-written alarmist rubbish for the Murdoch press in Australia?
25 Feb: Guardian: Graham Readfearn: Australia’s renewables adviser scrapes the bottom of the climate denialist barrel
Dick Warburton cites a long-debunked petition to argue climate scientists are split on the causes of global warming
IF you look down there at the bottom of the barrel and see the deep gouge marks in the oak, you might find a trace of DNA left by the scraping fingers of Dick Warburton.
That’s the place where Warburton found his “evidence” that the world’s scientists are split on whether or not climate change is being caused by humans.
The evidence in question is known as the Oregon Petition – one of the feeblest factoids in the climate science denial hymnbook that’s cited almost as often as it has been debunked…
Once those people with no studied expertise in areas of climate were removed, the number fell to just 0.1 per cent of US graduates – and this was being generous. Skeptical Science found there were likely only 39 people classed as climatologists who signed…
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2014/feb/24/climate-change-dick-warburton-sceptic-australia-renewable-energy-target-review
You have convinced me. The debate is over, Carol Costello is stupid.
But then most of the media mouthpieces of the Alarmists can be categorized that way. They are willing sheep that bleat out the narrative without question – in direct contradiction to their very job description.
People don’t call CNN “Constant Negative News” or “Communist News Network” for nothing. You have a better chance of reasoning with the wall.
There is a troubling trend in the 4th estate, from 60 Minutes, the LA Times, CNN etc., to engage in censorship in the name of the warmist ’cause’. They need to be called out and embarrassed for this dangerous practice. If they end up being successful, this tactic will simply be added to their playbook for other ’causes’.
The believers need the sceptics. We are the fuel for the engine that drives their need for more research. Discuss.
is it “left” when the rightwing UK govt hands out 100 million pounds sterling of taxpayer money in the name of CAGW to Shell & Drax? tellingly, the Tele & most other MSM which reported this funding didn’t even mention the amount!
24 Feb: UK Telegraph: Emily Gosden: Funding boost for Shell and SSE’s gas carbon capture plan
Energy firms win state funding as Energy Secretary warns going green will be more expensive without embryonic technology
“Without CCS on fossil fuels, achieving our decarbonisation targets and fighting climate change will be much, much more difficult and more expensive,” Mr Davey says.
The funding, for engineering and planning work, follows the announcement of a similar award last year to Drax’s White Rose project in Yorkshire, which plans to build a coal-burning CCS plant…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10656942/Funding-boost-for-Shell-and-SSEs-gas-carbon-capture-plan.html
Osborne has just been in Australia & has repeated his argument for nuclear/frakking as GREEN energy that is necessary to combat CAGW, yet our most CAGW-infested media – ABC & Fairfax, won’t even report what he has said. u can check online for “George Osborne unveils ‘most generous tax breaks in world’ for fracking” and articles on the incredibly generous deal (at the expense of the taxpayers) that he’s given the French/Chinese nuclear consortium who will build the new reactors:
21 Feb: Guardian: Nicholas Watt: George Osborne wants climate change tackled as cheaply as possible
Chancellor calls on environmentalists to drop opposition to nuclear power and shale gas as they can be inexpensive
In a question and answer after a speech to business leaders in Hong Kong, the chancellor firmly rejected arguments posed by some Tory climate change sceptics when he said man is to blame for global warming. The chancellor said: “I’m someone who believes climate change is happening, that it’s caused by human beings. We should do what we can to prevent it and if we can’t prevent then mitigate against it for example by building flood defences.”…
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/20/george-osborne-climate-change-cheaply
how like a pollie – left or right – to throw in the “flood defences” bit.
Well constructed letter. But I doubt it will do any good. Those immersed in agressive cultural entities, as Carol is within CAGW, are unable to perceive the outside world accurately, unable to percieve inconsistencies between CAGW narratives and reality (or even between some sub-narratives of CAGW where these clash). This is because memes within the entity penetrate the psyche, pushing emotional hot buttons that selectively suppress reason and cause alignment to, plus re-transmission of, said memes. One such meme is the demonisation of skeptics, which likely means your letter would be dismissed out of hand, or possibly without reading more than the first line or two. Appeals to logic, consistency and facts are likely only to hit home if there is some way of shocking the target temporarily out of their immersed state first, then presenting one’s argument while the window of opportunity is still open. See The CAGW Memeplex for much more on the memetic angle.
The most amazing example of this culturally induiced blindness is (as you point out) the fact that nature is currently working to erode the main strength of CO2 theory, yet after a 17 year ‘hiatus’, the cultural phenomenon of CAGW seems to have suffered remarkably little damage.
Well constructed letter. But I doubt it will do any good. Those immersed in agressive cultural entities, as Carol is within CAGW, are unable to perceive the outside world accurately, unable to percieve inconsistencies between CAGW narratives and reality (or even between some sub-narratives of CAGW where these clash). This is because memes within the entity penetrate the psyche, pushing emotional hot buttons that selectively suppress reason and cause alignment to, plus re-transmission of, said memes. One such meme is the demonisation of skeptics, which likely means your letter would be dismissed out of hand, or possibly without reading more than the first line or two. Appeals to logic, consistency and facts are likely only to hit home if there is some way of shocking the target temporarily out of their immersed state first, then presenting one’s argument while the window of opportunity is still open. See The CAGW Memeplex for much more on the memetic angle.
The most amazing example of this culturally induiced blindness is (as you point out) the fact that nature is currently working to erode the main strength of CO2 theory, yet after a 17 year ‘hiatus’, the cultural phenomenon of CAGW seems to have suffered remarkably little damage.
(apologies if this appears multiple times, not getting acknowledgment of posting…)
“Antarctic ice has hit record levels” — Should have said “record high levels”, as alarmists are likely to assume low levels unless told otherwise.
Well written, easy to understand, plainly stated facts.
Nope, not dumbed down enough for Costello.
◾Alarmed (16%)
◾Concerned (27%)
No doubt thanks to puff pieces written, narrated or perpetuated by people like Costello.
From Carol Costello’s piece:
Two things wrong with this kind of “journalism”: 1) the actual facts of the Drexel study say otherwise, 2) it’s presented out of context with the Billions spent by government, liberal foundations, and industry promoting climate alarmism.
So the conclusion is that Costello is either sloppy, stupid, or sold out.
The climate debate was always on and the debate is not over. [I am working on a longer list from the newspaper archives].
[1903] THE ENGLISH CLIMATE. IS IT CHANGING? [..we hardly ever have a real old- fashioned, snow-clad Christmas in these times..]
[1906] IS THE EARTH GETTING WARMER?
[1923] TEMPERATE ARCTIC [..some parts of the Polar basin no ice has been seen less than 9 degrees from the North Pole,.]
[1926] CHANGING CLIMATE. AMERICAN EXPERIENCE. RECORDED FACTS
[1934] WORLD’S CHANGING CLIMATE Unsafe To Generalise
[1935] CLIMATIC ECCENTRICITIES [… more or less off what is regarded as the normal…]
[1935] PLAN TO MELT THE NORTH POLE. AND IMPROVE THE WORLD’S CLIMATE. DAM 200 MILES LONG.
[1937] THE WARM ARCTIC!
[1939] WORLD CLIMATE CHANGING Scientists Puzzled
[1941] Impending Climatic Change.
[1951] WEATHER REALLY IS CHANGING […cooler summers and colder win- ters during the next 15 years,…]
[1951] World of Science CYCLE OF COLDER WEATHER
Did we ever need more proof than we have right here in this woman that the strategies put forth decades ago have worked to convince through fearful emotions and rigor-less exaggerations in order to bring about an enforced “utopia”?
Not a single person here, nor a seasoned and honored panel of climate experts who think the cause is otherwise regarding atmospheric and oceanic warming or cooling would be able to change this woman’s mind. Belief trumps data. And yes, powerful voices, more powerful than ours, can make it stick, though simple observation, raw data, fact, and scientific rigor say otherwise.
I’ve seen it. And been on the receiving end of it. Belief in one’s power, belief in one’s position as being indicative of an all-knowing and therefor infallible self, infests many an administrative conclave.
So it is the nature of the beast that the world is tossed and turned by powerful hubris only Mother Nature can outwit now and then. The outcome of this current matchup is still up in the air.
She’s a pretty face hired to read the teleprompter. For some reason humans see handsome folk as smarter and truthful. People like Carol remind me of Oddball speaking of his Sherman tank. “I just drive them. I don’t know what makes them go.”
Why waste your time.
The fact that AGW ‘believer’ positions are hardening is good. They are less capable of evasion and redefinition (climate change for global warming, projections not predictions). Makes it easier for Mother Nature to finish the debunking, and easier to heap ridicule deservingly high upon them. As here. Nice essay. Go for wider distribution.
Carol Costello must have forgotten she said this: “President Obama’s people can be quite nasty. They don’t like you to say anything bad about their boss, and they’re not afraid to use whatever means they have at hand to stop you from doing that, including threatening your job,”
It could just as easily have been: “CAGW believers can be quite nasty. They don’t like you to say anything bad about CAGW, and they’re not afraid to use whatever means they have at hand to stop you from doing that, including threatening your job.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/10/23/CNN-s-Carol-Costello-Obama-s-People-Are-Nasty-Willing-to-Threaten-Journalist-s-Jobs
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygKhnbq1z8A)
Those who dispute the GHE are stupid. There is no debate.