There’s quite a hullabaloo in the UK as the Met Office tries to link recent flooding in Bridgwater, Somerset with global warming, with Lord Lawson even calling Met Office Julia Slingo’s claims “absurd”. Josh even has a cartoon at Bishop Hill about it.
But, even more instructive than the row is this historic map that shows flooding would likely be a normal occurrence in Bridgwater in the county of Somerset, UK, located on this map at right.
Now look at this map from 878AD. “Swamp or Alluvium” anyone? The arrow notation is mine. This is the Danelaw map, from 878 AD, drawn in modern style:
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danelaw
People have been draining the area known as the Somerset Levels since before the Domesday Book in 1086AD. The Levels were frequently flooded by the sea during high tides, a problem that was not resolved until the sea defences were enhanced in the early 20th century.
So, is it any surprise that the water wants to follow the path of least resistance with gravity rather than it being a new feature of “climate change”?
h/t to Jabba The cat
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milodonharlani.. Sorry i know this is off topic for this thread, but you’re statement is inaccurate. Athelstan set a border with the Cornish at the Tamar in 936, you can check that on many online sources. The amount of land owned by landords outside Cornwall was not more than was controlled by local landlords at this time, and King Hywel of Cornwall was alive in Athelstans time. Cornwall was still independent well after this and wasn’t made a duchy until 1337. There is too much to discuss here but perhaps you could quote your sources?
The only Celtic King Hywel in Athelstan’s time of whom I have read was Hywel Dda (c. AD 880 to 950), a petty king in SW Wales who managed eventually to spread his rule over most of that country.
Athelstan could set the border of Cornwall at the Tamar because he effectively controlled both sides of the river.
My primary sources are the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles & the Annals of Wales, & secondary sources various history books based upon them. For what it’s worth, here’s the Wiki entry on the last recorded King of Cornwall:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donyarth
Wessex and its dependencies? Nonsense. Craig and Kenneth are correct. Cornwall was not incorporated into Wessex so the map is pure fantasy. Nor was in incorporated, annexed or united at any time since – see the Crown versus Duchy 1858 Foreshore Case. Cornwall is the constitutional skeleton in the cupboard of the so-called United Kingdom.
milodonharlani, you say “Athelstan could set the border of Cornwall at the Tamar because he effectively controlled both sides of the river.” I’d be interested to hear what primary sources you are basing that statement on.
There is much dispute on this subject, and i have read a few history books which dispute the claims of many anglo-academics who write about Cornwall. I don’t think there is any evidence to suggest that Athelstan controlled both sides of the Tamar either when he set the border in 936, and Hywel is also recorded as king of the “West Welsh”, which refers to the Cornish/Dumnonians not the Welsh. I’m afraid WIKI doesn’t always get things right and these subjects are still a matter of hot debate.
Regards, Kenneth
Huwal, king of the Westwealas, signed that treaty at Eamont Bridge. The term ‘Westwealas’ was only ever applied to the Cornish. Hywel (Dda) of South Wales had already signed a similar trreaty with Athelstan’s predecessor. At the Norman Conquest one Cadoc was cited as the last of the Cornish royal dynasty. The Cornish Celtic church did not fall under the Wessex system, but was increasingly under pressure from Canterbury to conform to Roman doctrines. It was the last of the Celtic nations to hold out, not going over to Roman Catholicism until the early 10th century. We are quite familar with Donyarth, thanks. My sources are rather wider than just the ASC and Wiki.
Kenneth says:
February 15, 2014 at 2:51 pm
I´ll have to take your word that there is a lot of dispute on this subject. It seems improbable to me that Athelstan did not control his own backyard when he waged successful war all over Britain, such that the Welsh, Scots (Alba) & Strathclyde Britons all accepted his overlordship & he defeated combinations of the latter two groups with the Norse in York & from Dublin. The Welsh were on his side at the Battle of Brunanburh.
The Chronicle records that even before Alfred, Wessex held overlordship of Cornwall. This is the same Chronicle which says that Athelstan fixed the boundary between Cornish & English at the Tamar, so the same evidence which you cite supports the fact of Wessex overlordship & control of the Church & many lands there.
Good luck finding a Welsh historian who regards Hywel or the West Welsh as Cornish. Hywel appears in both Welsh & English sources as a king of SW Wales who, in collaboration with Athelstan, exerted his control over most of the country. He’s revered as a law-giver in Wales.
Craig Weatherhill says:
February 15, 2014 at 2:53 pm
I would be interested in your sources.
Cadoc’s ancestor may have been descended 200 years on from the last Cornish king Donyarth, but being a surviving member of a royal line does not make you a king. Ask any of the numerous Hapsburgs in Europe today.
In order to subdue the English, the Normans may (according to one source centuries later) briefly have elevated Cadoc to Earl of Cornwall, but soon brought in Breton-Norman knights, including William’s own half-brother, Brian of Brittany is accounted first Earl of Cornwall, not Cadoc.
Orme’s 2007 book, Cornwall and the Cross: Christianity, 500–1560, tells a different story of the Catholic Church there in the 9th, 10th & 11th centuries. Whatever practices the people may have followed, the ecclesiastical establishment was under English control, which to me seems reasonable given the unequal. to say the least, balance of power.
Even the 9th or 10th century Bodmin Manumissions are in Anglo-Saxon as well as Latin & Cornish.
Should be a period after half-brother, not comma. Brian wasn’t William’s brother. Typing on a Spanish laptop.
West Wales was a name for Cornwall or Dumnonia before the Wessex supremacy, but it did not refer to the land ruled by the 10th century Hywel Dda. He was from the SW part of “North Wales”, ie Wales, as any Welsh historian will tell you.
It may surprise some that a major river sluice on the Somerset Levels is closed! Or might as well be. It comprises two channels one side being fully closed the other is set into the summer position.
No amount of dredging would get round this. It would appear that the control cabins are padlocked shut.
Call in The Royal Engineers, a few pounds of C4 will get that sluice open.
Friends:
Americans may be unaware of why there is so much dispute of ancient Cornish history. I write to explain in hope that the thread can return to its subject.
Cornwall has a long tradition as a separate country from England and still has some unique cultural differences. But England has dominated Cornwall for at least a thousand years. This dominance is explained by the geological riches of Cornwall; tin, copper, sulphur, granite, serpentine, etc. are all relatively abundant in Cornwall. Long, long ago the Phonecians called Cornwall ‘The Tin Islands’ and kept its location a secret. Cornwall was an important UK strategic resource until the mid-twentieth century.
In a few months time Scotland will vote on whether to leave the United Kingdom. So, national unity is a serious issue in the UK at present.
A few years ago the Producers of the US television program ‘The Simpsons’ wanted to provide an episode where Lucie would campaign as a freedom fighter. Unaware of UK sensibilities, they phoned a member of the Cornish Language Society and asked for the Cornish language translation of ‘Free Cornwall’. The episode was made and broadcast in the USA with result that a diplomatic incident ensued with the UK government demanding official apology. ‘The Simpsons’ is broadcast in the UK but that episode is not.
The issue of Cornish identity is of more than mere historical interest (as is the issue of Scottish identity). So, perhaps WUWT is not a good forum to debate it.
Richard
BBC newsnight hatchet job again. They had a climate scientist and ‘a denier’ who they pointed out was ‘not a scientist’. Let alone if that was ‘important’ they could have asked a scientist with a non co2 view lets have a look at the scientist they did ask Kevin Anderson . In this link we read “Global warming professor Kevin Anderson ‘cuts back on washing and showering’ to fight climate change – Admits at UN climate summit: ‘That is why I smell’ – Defends his call for ‘a planned economic recession’ ” http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/11/19/global-warming-professor-kevin-anderson-cuts-back-on-washing-and-showering-to-fight-climate-change-admits-at-un-climate-summit-that-is-why-i-smell/
So this is the guy the BBC went out of their way to say was ‘scientist’. While all the eco lifestyle tips and utopianism might be of interest to some what on earth has it got to do with stopping flooding on somerset marshland? Is his competence climate science or political science or iron age living?
The ipcc group recently admitted themselves the climate models upon which the predictions are based and upon which the ipcc reports are based cannot model past climate with known data and so are unvalidated. Evaluation of Climate Models Wednesday 5 February 2014 Presenting author: Dr Catherine Senior, Met Office and Prof Peter Cox,University of Exeter.
http://www.rmets.org/sites/rmets.org/files/presentations/05022014-senior-cox.pdf
the audio is here http://www.rmets.org/sites/rmets.org/files/presentations/05022014-senior-cox.mp3
if you cannot replicate past performance you also cannot predict future performance. Would anyone rely on an unvalidated air traffic control model in real time and then rely on it predictions? Policy makers have no need to listen to anything from an unvalidated model and the eco bullies can be dismissed by pointing them to the validation studies of the models from where they got their predictions.. The validation reports blow up the co2 deathstar..
exploding deathstar