Paging Lord Deben
I had debated with myself a couple of days as to whether or not to cover this particular bit of ugliness, after it first being brought to my attention by Bishop Hill. But then, Lord Deben of the UK made this observation:
I challenge Lord Deben to find examples of climate skeptics doing anything remotely close to this sort of ugliness that is much like of the tactics of the Klu Klux Klan – showing up at somebody’s house with mask covered faces, torches, and a threat:
Source:
‘The People’ Confront Enbridge Executive In Solidarity With MI CATS 3
http://www.tarsandsblockade.org/enbridge-home-demo/
(update: their website is no longer serving that page, so here it is as a PDF Tar Sands Blockade – Enbridge )
One of these days, they’ll show up at the wrong house, like their comrades did with the wrong petrol station, and the person inside won’t be as tolerant as Mr. Maki was, and that won’t be pretty:
In case Lord Deben doesn’t know, this “tar sands blockade” is an organization that is part of Bill McKibben’s 350.org and their mission to stop Keystone XL due to their concerns about the supposed effect on the climate.
(Update: Amazingly, McKibben supported this action, see screencap below)
And, perhaps Lord Deben doesn’t recall this example of ugliness from like minded people in the UK on climate, who decided that blowing up school children would be a great way to get the message of climate obedience and compliance across:
It was so bad, 10:10 tried to disappear it, but they were unsuccessful.
And, maybe Lord Deben hasn’t seen this:
Lefty Feud Over Keystone Worsens, Ed Schultz Telling Enviros to ‘Go to Hell’
It seems even the left leaning media is realizing the KXL people are going off the rails.
I challenge Lord Deben to find similar examples from climate skeptics. I’ll even given you a guest essay here to highlight it if you like.
Reference:
‘your journey towards the dark side will be complete’ with apologies to “Emperor Palpatine”
Perhaps you would be willing
(a) to explain why you did not correct Randle Dewees despite all the comments on that thread which mentioned the information?
and
Richard, concerning point (a) Gareth did respond to my question pretty quickly. I was gone for quite a while after posting it and it took on a life of it’s own.
I don’t debate online, too much energy required, and obviously I’m not at my computer enough! Many of the regulars here do a better job of presenting my views then I could – Rgbatduke, for example.
I thought I found a piece of interesting info, and presented it, along with some opinion. But my guess was wrong – Gareth states he’s not the “Sindicatum Gareth”, and doesn’t have an obvious financial or professional interest in this fight.
I’ve since stated I absolutely disagree with his premise that something is “wrong” with the climate. And more so with the notion that – even if something was wrong – we could do something about it. I’ve my reasons for my position, based on my education in physical science, my career in science, and my political perspective – somewhat conservative and old enough to be absolutely skeptical of something so obviously built on systematic propaganda and manipulation.
I’ve no idea why Gareth hangs with all this. Surely he doesn’t think his arguments go very far? I’ve concluded he is just one of those arguers that won’t give up. He even stated he enjoys the fight.
Now, hopefully, this thing I started misidentifying Gareth is put to rest. And I’m going back to lurker mode
richardscourtney says:
February 9, 2014 at 11:30 am
Gareth Phillips:
While I hate me too posts, I hate it even more when they seem to be warranted.
Check out
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/09/black-swans-dispatches-from-the-front-line-of-climate-change/#comment-1562914
While you’re over there, I suspect few people have seen my comment, Gareth seems to have been around here annoying people for a while.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/09/black-swans-dispatches-from-the-front-line-of-climate-change/#comment-1562948
BigFoot says: @ur momisugly February 9, 2014 at 9:57 pm
As a Canadian I am getting a little annoyed at all the American protests of the Keystone XL pipeline….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Not half as annoyed as the sane Americans who realize Keystone XL pipeline means jobs, not only directly but because CHEAP ENERGY = JOBS.
Obama said “If somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them,…Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.” And that is exactly what will happen SOON.
In Ohio, where the most coal fired plants are slated to close electricity rates for new capacity will “skyrocket” from $16 per megawatt (2012) to $357 per megawatt (2015) in the northern Ohio territory served by FirstEnergy and $136 to $167 per megawatt elsewhere.
Coal fueled 78 percent of Ohio’s net electricity generation in 2011, nuclear energy contributed 11 percent. Up to 1/3 of the nuclear in the USA may also be closed so northern Ohio is in for a heck of a big surprise in a few years. (If you live in Ohio, MOVE NOW before your property is worth less than it is in Detroit.)
As we have seen in the EU when prices of energy, regulation and labor skyrocket business walks to a more friendly environment like China or India.
And speaking of regulations Federal regulations have lowered real GDP growth by 2% per year since 1949 and made America 72% poorer
Not to mention Obama’s push to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 this will just about double the minimum wage making US labor that much more uncompetitive with China and even Mexico.
The federal minimum wage in Jul 24, 2007 was $5.85. It was raised to $6.55 in Jul 24, 2008 and raised again to $7.25 in July 24, 2009. (There is already reverse immigration happening as jobs move to Mexico and dry up in the USA.)
Meanwhile the USA lost 6.5 million jobs from Dec 2007 to October 2011. link and the real unemployment including ‘discourged workers’** is around 24%.
**Those who haven’t found a job but have been out of work for over a year and thus fell of the US government radar.
Randle Dewees says:
February 10, 2014 at 5:20 am
He did, see above.
When I’m expecting a response I’ll often search the comments for my name or his name. Please don’t follow up accusations with another accusation until you do some better research.
Ecoloons and other criminals in government have caused greater damage to their countries than an invading force. At least with an invading force you know there is an enemy. With this destruction of the country from within all you have is the creeping destruction and a Tar Baby.
Ric Werme, I think you have misunderstood the post by Randle Dewees. The part you quote was a direct quotation by Randle Dewees of RichardsCourtney. He just forgot to use blockquotes.
In context Randle Dewees writes:
“
Richard, concerning point (a) Gareth did respond to my question pretty quickly. I was gone for quite a while after posting it and it took on a life of it’s own.
“
Randle Dewees:
Thankyou for your post at February 10, 2014 at 5:20 am.
I agree much of what you say. And I, too, have dropped the matter of GP’s identity but for the reason put by Gail Combs in the post above yours. However, I am grateful that you raised the issue which I think to be VERY important. Indeed, possible attempted subversion of WUWT is directly pertinent to the subject of this thread which is about suppression of AGW dissent.
We do have some disagreement.
I remain to be convinced of the matter one way or the other.
This is despite that our host has informed us that GP is based in Wales. Modern electronic communications would not require GP’s constant attendance in London and the M4 enables a visit to London and return within a day for attendance of business meetings.
My reasons for continued doubt are several. Firstly, GP did NOT make a clear rebuttal of the suggestion, and with his track record of mendacity a rebuttal would not have been conclusive. Secondly, he refuses to answer the question from Michael Moon on the other thread and the question repeatedly put to him by clipe on this and the other threads. This implies that his background is not what he claims it is: one could anticipate that he would want to demonstrate basic knowledge of his claimed profession and would want to cite some of the papers he claims to have published. Thirdly, he has been evasive about everything, and this is most clearly seen in his responses to questions about his blog.
But the matter has to be left unresolved. And – as you say – it does not alter the realities of the science.
Richard
Gail Combs says:
February 10, 2014 at 4:37 am
” … I think Gareth is talking about himself and the Earth First criminals.”
—-l
If so, then my mistake. However, I drew my inference from the whole sentence, which reads:
” … But you seemed to be determined to conflate me with another chap. One of the things I learned over many years in Psychiatry is that if delusions are challenged they can be re-enforced, so once I had pointed out I was not this man I refrained on debating the issue with you. … ”
That seemed to be addressed to the person he referred to as motormouth. There are better ways to convince a skeptic.
Here in Canada, a blogger has been keeping track of the watermelons (it should not surprise anyone that there is a tremendous overlap with the Occupy/anarchist movement – and in Canada, at least, the militant native community):
genuinewitty dot com
M Courtney says:
February 10, 2014 at 5:39 am
Oops, I was reading too quickly – I had 1.5″ of new snow on my driveway to deal with.
Thanks for clearing up my confusion.
dbstealey says:
February 9, 2014 at 11:47 am
———-
“Because so far, there is no scientific evidence that I can find to support the alarmist crowd’s belief in runaway global warming or climate catastrophe. There is really no such evidence at all.”
There is, and can be, no such evidence as it is a logical impossibility. At one time all the carbon dioxide sequestrated in the limestone, chalk and marble rocks was in the atmosphere, before the diatoms and foraminifera turned it into their skeletons, died, and it became rock. Similarly all the carbon in coal, oil and gas came from carbon dioxide extracted from the atmosphere by trees and other plants.
Now, before the trees created the coal, and the diatoms and foraminifera created the chalk and limestone, all that carbon dioxide was in the atmosphere, and the temperature did not reach a tipping point – though it may have been rather warmer than at present. Even so, that higher temperature DID NOT destroy life!
There was no runaway global warming. There was no climate catastrophe.
An American blog commentary on a Brit-aristocrat’s made-only-more-telling-by-its-understatement, fuss-budget, world-weary distaste for “unpleasantness”?–I kinda think we have a clash of cultures here.
The Brit style is to reduce the peasantry to a complacent, docile, disarmed, cowed, coolie-trash plasticity, so easily molded, that even goof-ball, milquetoast, silly-goose put-down boogers, like “headless chickens” and references to “ostriches” and heads in the sand (I’m looking at you Deben, ol’ buddy, with that last), delivered in a plummy accent and aimed along the sight-lines of a raised, noble nose, are sufficient to get the Brit helots all a-hustle forking over their hard-earned tax-dollars to serve the trough-needs of their lord and masters. A system with a lot to recommend it if you’re a top-predator parasite in on the deal. And, of course, the best thing about the whole set-up is that the “beautiful people”, with the privileged perches, never have to LEAD FROM THE FRONT AND BY PERSONAL EXAMPLE!–THEY NEVER HAVE TO PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH!.
But on the other side of the pond, the American riff-raff, unspeakably-vulgar, fuck-you!, hoi-polloi nobodies are all sassy and salty. And so when some pompous-ass, Brit slicko (no, I’m not talkin’ about you, Deben, but you know the guys I mean), decked-out in exquisitely-tailored, British woolens (especially if the weirdo also sports some sort of fruit-loop, chi-chi ascot, for Pete’s sake!), in all his privileged-white-dork, carbon-piggie hypocrite-magnificence, polluting the very atmosphere we must all breathe with his in-bred, cretinous superior airs, shows up to lend a hand to the local-yokel big-shots’ efforts to pick the American peon’s tax-payer pocket through Lysenko-science, eco-scares, and the say-so of authority figures with a medieval sense of claim on their lessers’ deference, there is a shock to our Brit patrician’s feudal frame of cultural reference when the Yankee-Doodle, useless-eater nobodies push back with a tart, “Keep your hands to yourself and off my wallet, you hive-bozo asshole!”
Like I said, it’s a “cultural” thing.
Was he alluding to Lord Monckton’s letter?
Randle says:
“I’ve no idea why Gareth hangs with all this. Surely he doesn’t think his arguments go very far?”
Gareth is not here to argue facts. Gareth is here because he just loves to have lots of comments about… Gareth.
It is pure ego. Of course Gareth will never debate facts, because he has no credible facts to contribute [there’s a challenge for you, G].
He likes to play footsie with comments like:
“ask me a straight question and I will give you a straight answer. Over to you.
But Gareth will never give a straight answer, as all of his comments prove. Being straight with people is not a part of what Gareth is. The alarmist crowd has lots of Gareths.
If I am wrong about this, then Gareth will debate scientific evidence with us. He would give his reasons why he opposes the KLX pipeline. I would enjoy that, and maybe I would learn something.
But it is not to be. This thread is all about the insufferable Gareth, not about scientific evidence. That is exactly the way Gareth wants it to be, as he demonstrates repeatedly.
DirkH says:
February 10, 2014 at 2:55 am
—————————————
If you drew a line from San Francisco than east to Sacramento and the Sierra Nevada mountains, then you would find that most of the 37+ million Californians live south of that line. Many who live in No California would like to see this state split in half along that line. Northern California is sparsely populated and only receives the leftovers from the state coffers. There just isn’t enough voters in the north for Sacramento to be concerned about. It has been that way for a long time.
BigFoot says: “As a Canadian I am getting a little annoyed at all the American protests of the Keystone XL pipeline.”
You are lucky! Those American Keystone XL protestors could be in Canada protesting.
Want, we will gladly ship’em up North. 😉
@Darren Potter 12:59,
Please do, just have the charter flight drop them off at Coats Island, assure them that the press and refreshments will land in 3/4 of an hour, then take off.
For further entertainments perhaps an unmanned camera platform can fly overhead filming their “experience”.
Re: the identity of ‘Gareth Phillips’
Although his identity is at question. One thing not at question is his ‘politeness’ (or more to the point – his lack of it); “eyesonu” pointed out where Gareth Phillips had previously used the “See you next Tuesday” ‘metaphor”
“eyesonu says:
February 9, 2014 at 12:18 pm
Gareth Phillips says:
February 9, 2014 at 11:23 am
….. “I suspect a persons attitude on a given subject owes more to their own personality than the subject in hand, and such people tend to express unresolved anger through the medium of the debate. ” …..
=============
Your closing and final words on a previous post on WUWT Friday, Feb 7 was quote: ….” See you next Tuesday.” It was related to your use of metaphors. Are you a couple of days early or did it reflect an expression of unresolved anger?
Google search: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=See-you-next-Tuesday
See You Next Tuesday
A clandestine method of calling someone a cunt.
Particularly effective when used prior to a three day week end.
C: See
U: You
N: Next
T: Tuesday
Perhaps you really meant to return to that thread in a couple more days, maybe.”
Gareth Phillips reply was;
“Gareth Phillips says:
February 9, 2014 at 12:40 pm
eyesonu says:
February 9, 2014 at 12:18 pm
Hi Eyesonu, thanks for the explanation. New one on me, but very enlightening, I will note that for future reference. Sadly many people are conflating my identity with some other chap employed by the EU. This looks to be more of the same. I’m beginning to feel like an international man of mystery! Maybe a look at the thread leading up to that comment may shed some light on the subject ? I am also in an important meeting a few hundred miles away on Tuesday so I doubt I will have time to blog, but I will try though it’s likely to be late. In the meantime I shall try and refrain from calling you next thursday or discussing climate yearly national trends. Cheers G”
Now if you read the actual comment eyesonu referred to;
“Gareth Phillips says:
February 7, 2014 at 12:13 pm
eyesonu says:
February 7, 2014 at 12:02 pm
rgbatduke says:
February 7, 2014 at 10:34 am
=================
Excellent comment as usual.
Gareth Phillips has much to think about now. I don’t believe he is ignorant as he post a great metaphor for Father Earth to be affected by CO2 in the same way a man would be affected by Vi@gra provided that metaphor was intentional. On the other hand he may have drank too much Koolaide during his indoctrination to the school of CAGW. Either way the Vi@gra ad/metaphor was most eloquent.
Hey Joscyn, who mentioned Viagra? Not me, and if you could stop fantasising about erect members for just one moment and focus on the debate you may even be able to follow it. By the way, look up the meaning of metaphors, I suspect you have misinterpreted what I say, then again …………………… Call You Next Tuesday !”
Yes, thanks for that Gareth Phillips, whoever you are. I did read the rest of the thread referred to, it did shed some light on it. Your constant deflection and underhand unpleasantness ‘lights you up’ as a particularly ignorant and unpleasant troll.
Reading Deben’s Twitter feed I cannot believe the breathtaking hypocrisy of the man. He is the one refusing to argue but resorting to abuse and innuendo in his tweets. He complains about politicising the flooding in between tweets using it to attack UKIP by lying about their position (they dispute CAGW, not climate change).
“Why are the climate naysayers so personally unpleasant? In no other issue do dissenters so quickly turn from argument to abuse and innuendo”
Consider it another example of the CAGW crowd who has abused the English language as a tool to demonize others…yet being simultaneously so correct in all things seems a contradiction. Immediately one sees the terminology used to demonize all and any who question their closed mind set. It is seen everyday, a relentless attack on the person, rather than the idea or argument.
So, as soon as there is a sense of their pending explosion of accusation, I go on the offense. Their face shows dismay, they attempt a retort, but find themselves quickly cut off. I see no reason to be civil to a person who freely without thought of consequence lashes demonizing accusations at the person. Sorry … but no mercy given. May their soul descend to its’ proper place.
Little known factoid:
Michael Mann’s death trains:
I didn’t realize it until a few weeks ago when I saw some “protestors” arguing against allowing coal trains fom the US coming in to Canada to ship power grade coal from Robert’s Bank coal port in British Columbia. Canadian coal shipped is mostly metallurgical grade coal. It seems that the US does not have any coal shipping facilities on the west coast, so all of the “death trains” of coal that Obama’s buddy, Warren Buffet ships west is going to a Canadian coal port. At the same time he is shipping oil by rail south while Obama prognosticate over the KXL pipeline. Delicious irony. / sarc off?
You’ve got people claiming they think the earth otherwise heated with full sunlight in vacuum, got hotter, once a cold nitrogen oxygen envelope was put around it, than in vacuum alone: that’s impossible absurdity of itself.
Then you have the same people making the claim they think blocking a fifth of the sunlight to surface sensors, made more heat register on them, than when there was more energy.
It was obviously hoodoo and falsehood built on falsehood, from the first word to the last one.
This is why the people running the scam sought out and secured allies in the anti science push, to help the quiet people who repeatedly observed the entire AGW scientific base is built on make believe.
The government employees can only speak as government employees: when they enlist the help of private citizens in media it makes it look more ”accepted” than if the misinformation about their scheme to simply overthrow the rule of physical, scientific, thermodynamical laws.
Anyone who helps or helped spread it deserves the derision they get for ever having helped.
Government employees couldn’t have spread this scam if enablers in media hadn’t helped them.
highflight56433 says:
February 10, 2014 at 5:50 pm
“Why are the climate naysayers so personally unpleasant? In no other issue do dissenters so quickly turn from argument to abuse and innuendo”
Consider it another example of the CAGW crowd who has abused the English language as a tool to demonize others…yet being simultaneously so correct in all things seems a contradiction. Immediately one sees the terminology used to demonize all and any who question their closed mind set. It is seen everyday, a relentless attack on the person, rather than the idea or argument.
So, as soon as there is a sense of their pending explosion of accusation, I go on the offense. Their face shows dismay, they attempt a retort, but find themselves quickly cut off. I see no reason to be civil to a person who freely without thought of consequence lashes demonizing accusations at the person. Sorry … but no mercy given. May their soul descend to its’ proper place.
Consider the claim about how ”the science is settled.”
CAGW believers have never even put forth a supposition which can be experimentally verified.
It isn’t science when someone tells you they discovered civilization is going to end
because of outlandish properties
by some tiny percent of the atmosphere,
but there’s no way to check if they’re wrong
no matter how many times they are shown to be wrong.
It’s nothing more than the equation of having won a public relations media war
with having won the actual scientific war, while never even entering testable science.
The Naysayer is one of my favorite characters. Big guy, huge sword.
You just need to ask him the right questions.
Such as “Should we allow these people to bankrupt western civilization and cause widespread famine in Afrika based on zero evidence?”