Paging Lord Deben
I had debated with myself a couple of days as to whether or not to cover this particular bit of ugliness, after it first being brought to my attention by Bishop Hill. But then, Lord Deben of the UK made this observation:
I challenge Lord Deben to find examples of climate skeptics doing anything remotely close to this sort of ugliness that is much like of the tactics of the Klu Klux Klan – showing up at somebody’s house with mask covered faces, torches, and a threat:
Source:
‘The People’ Confront Enbridge Executive In Solidarity With MI CATS 3
http://www.tarsandsblockade.org/enbridge-home-demo/
(update: their website is no longer serving that page, so here it is as a PDF Tar Sands Blockade – Enbridge )
One of these days, they’ll show up at the wrong house, like their comrades did with the wrong petrol station, and the person inside won’t be as tolerant as Mr. Maki was, and that won’t be pretty:
In case Lord Deben doesn’t know, this “tar sands blockade” is an organization that is part of Bill McKibben’s 350.org and their mission to stop Keystone XL due to their concerns about the supposed effect on the climate.
(Update: Amazingly, McKibben supported this action, see screencap below)
And, perhaps Lord Deben doesn’t recall this example of ugliness from like minded people in the UK on climate, who decided that blowing up school children would be a great way to get the message of climate obedience and compliance across:
It was so bad, 10:10 tried to disappear it, but they were unsuccessful.
And, maybe Lord Deben hasn’t seen this:
Lefty Feud Over Keystone Worsens, Ed Schultz Telling Enviros to ‘Go to Hell’
It seems even the left leaning media is realizing the KXL people are going off the rails.
I challenge Lord Deben to find similar examples from climate skeptics. I’ll even given you a guest essay here to highlight it if you like.
Reference:
‘your journey towards the dark side will be complete’ with apologies to “Emperor Palpatine”
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
They are incredibly crazy and stupid. Texas has the castle law – they’re going to get SHOT by someone. Their shooters won’t even face a courtroom – open and shut case.
Tim Ball says:
February 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm
Isn’t Lord Deben living proof of why the ordinary people wrote the Constitution and formed the United States?
——————————
Yes! Spot on!
And we are trying our darndest to keep the current admistration from undermining it with a pen and a phone and Chicago style politics…….
A few observations and a few thoughts on those observations. First, it is difficult not to understand why anyone would prefer not living next to large-scale industrial chemical complexes, including refineries. Although I agree that many such surrounding neighborhoods are often not upscale, I have indeed worked on such issues for almost 30 years now, including adjacent upscale neighborhoods. By far the higher frequency involves communities of lower even lowest incomes. This forms the basis of many environmental justice issues. I get this.
I also get free speech and free association. Although I do not agree that bracing anyone at their home is an appropriate means of protest, I do get that this might be perceived by some as perhaps the only venue in today’s society.
I also have no trouble understanding that this entire incident was organized and videographed with a definite intention to provide one side of what is obviously a complex argument. Meaning this was in no way an interrogatory.
I first encountered Systemic Interruption Syndrome (Sisy – my definition) after migrating to Australia in 1989. It was a widespread cultural anomaly that consisted of interrupting someone, including if they were answering a question you had asked, and then talking right over them. It is a means of thrusting your views over anothers, and, if done with aplomb, is intended to provide a winning argument by paving over opposition essentially by bullhorn and gravitas.
With or with aplomb and gravitas it always goes by the four-letter word known in civilized society as rude. And no, this was not a hit on my Aussie friends, I simply first noticed it here in an intense way. I have no idea where or when this behavior first became mainstream.
Interrupting someone is rude. Continued/persistent rude behavior goes by the moniker of uncivilized. I have been known to point this out.
A rapid immersion into this behavior made it quite easy to watch it develop here after I got back. It would appear to have evolved into one of the dominant means of efficient non-communication in the early 21st century (another dominant means of communication efficiency being represented by “f you like your health plan you can keep it, period” etc.) So, understanding that the maker(s) of the video wish to impart their philosophical bend, the value of uncivilized behavior dictates the promulgation of one side of a many-sided argument.
Got it.
The humor. “How did you get here” Maki asks. It’s a fair question. Perhaps that is why it got such short shrift. All-up I thought Maki did an admirable job, especially given the circumstances. I am also glad that whoever ladled whatever abuse on another did so only verbally. Otherwise uncivilized becomes barbaric.
The real problem comes when we consider civilized, e.g. civilization. The Alberta Tar Sand bitumens are going to be burned. End of story. Get over it. Odds are the majority of it will get refined at gulf coast refineries, Chinese refineries, or any other destination where the cost of transport, refining and stability of supply make economic sense. Preventing that would take some remarkable protestations!
Thinking about all that you soon arrive at a rather GLIB conclusion. What, on earth, would a GLacial Inception Barrier look like? Is anyone aware of anything we (meaning us) might be able to do to delay or contravene inception of the next glacial? Is there anything we could deploy, oh, in let’s say something like a few centuries, that could climatically compensate for say the onset speed of the next glacial:
“This record also reveals that the transitions at the beginning and end of the interglacial spanned only ~100 and 150 years, respectively.” http://www.pnas.org/content/104/2/450.full
Eliminating the pollutant CO2, and a partial precursor CH4, what might it be, precisely, that the present iteration of the genus Homo might employ to obviate the next glacial inception, whenever it comes due? So far, the only anti-glacial pro-biotic/climate steroid in the peer-reviewed “pipeline” are GhGs.
The alternative is even more interesting. What if GHGs are the key?
If Ruddiman’s “Early Anthropogenic Hypothesis” is correct, then that (meaning GHG emissions) is what we have been doing, for a large portion of the Holocene, and especially here at the half-precession cycle old Holocene, a.k.a. the so-called Anthropocene. Therefore it would be GHG emissions that have prevented glacial inception, for at least the past few thousand years!
It quickly follows that removing the only hypothesized/theorized/known “warming enhancer”, climate-steroid, if you will, holds the potential for glacial inception?
“Because the intensities of the 397kaBP and present insolation minima are very similar, we conclude that under natural boundary conditions the present insolation minimum holds the potential to terminate the Holocene interglacial.” http://folk.uib.no/abo007/share/papers/eemian_and_lgi/mueller_pross07.qsr.pdf
It’s alright by this geologist if you plunk down either way. Emerging adolescence as perhaps one of the earliest eco-terrorists, friends and I got a mountain slated for mining incorporated as a park (near you Janice Moore:-)). I have explored for and found all but one energy mineral, coal. Not to mention precious and strategic minerals. The quarter-century plus after that all I have done is clean up the worst of the worst toxic cocktails we have ever generated. Which is what I wanted to do, and have done, for 2/3 of my career.
Trust me, I do get it. All of it.
Including the part when the next glacial does, eventually, get here. And how well adapted the teeming masses of modern humanity will be, this time around. A speciation level event? At some point, we will indeed see, won’t we? The last one happened in 150 years, or less…..
Often, here at the supposed peak of solar cycle 24, I find it of value to contemplate the fascinating words of Sirocko et al (2005):
“Investigating the processes that led to the end of the last interglacial period is relevant for understanding how our ongoing interglacial will end, which has been a matter of much debate…..”
“The onset of the LEAP occurred within less than two decades, demonstrating the existence of a sharp threshold, which must be near 416 Wm2, which is the 65oN July insolation for 118 kyr BP (ref. 9). This value is only slightly below today’s value of 428 Wm2. Insolation will remain at this level slightly above the inception for the next 4,000 years before it then increases again.” http://folk.uib.no/abo007/share/papers/eemian_and_lgi/sirocko_seelos05.nat.pdf
Begrudgingly, if you like your climate you might be able to keep it. The questions are over what period and, of course, how????? More power to you if you can incorporate the “to be burned” bitumen of the Alberta Tar Sands in your calculus.
Global warming alarmists abusing our children
The facts don’t support the propaganda environmentalists feeding our children
By Elizabeth Nickson
Last year, a high school teacher reported that during a visit from American anti-oil sands activist Bill McKibben, a frail girl with cerebral palsy stood up to say, “I am going to die young anyway, you make me think I should end my life sooner for the good of the planet.”
As a new school year approaches, the drumbeat of doom targeting our children is increasing to war-cry proportions.
It is Catastrophe Week on National Geographic TV, while its print cover story chronicles the ocean flooding up the Statue of Liberty’s chest. Time magazine’s cover shouts Bee Die-off to indicate the collapse of biodiversity.
No doubt there is more to come, with the preferred target of the doomsters the eager young minds of our children. Perhaps this propaganda is the true climate crime
http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/4066416-global-warming-alarmists-abusing-our-children/
I listen to the protestors and cannot identify with their values or mentalities. For example, when they say that trespassers who forced a shutdown of lawful construction should not be prosecuted, but that the company which testified against them is being mean, nothing in my values, principles, or philosophy empathizes with them.
Gareth Phillips says:
February 9, 2014 at 12:51 pm
” …One of the things I learned over many years in Psychiatry is that if delusions are challenged they can be re-enforced …”
—-l
I don’t think that statement is as effective on this blog as it would be when dealing with a patient. You might want to re-consider your strategy.
JD twitted “Why are the climate naysyaers so personally unpleasant?”
Cause for a decade we have had to put up with supercilious Climate Alarmsyaers like ManBearPig, MM HuckeySchticker, and NASA’s AstroArrestee.
@philjourdan –
Yes, the meme is all there is. To the ideologue, concepts like “true,” “false,” “fact,” “illusion,” “right” and “wrong” aren’t even irrelevant – they don’t exist. The meme, the dogma, is all there is. It’s rather like how there was no word for “bad” in Orwell’s Newspeak – there is only “ungood,”
@richard Courtney 3:36.
Richard the moderation is playing hell with the conversation.
My concern is, I do not think you give visitors here enough credit .
Your comments have a history of content, some wit and wisdom.
I pay attention as I have often learnt something of value from your comments.
The character you are reacting to here, lacks these small details.
As in many words….. zip for content.
Perhaps a troll.
Perhaps a zealot on the way out of the cult.
But mostly seems to be talking to himself.
I suspect, by the lack of bites, many visitors have reached their own conclusions.
Unfortunately when you engage, I am forced to read the other fellows comments to make sense of yours.That kind of blather makes my head hurt.
Tim Ball says: “Isn’t Lord Deben living proof of why the ordinary people wrote the Constitution and formed the United States?”
You still got Nixon and Obama! Unfortunately, I am afraid politicians are all the same the world over.
With regard to the debate about cancer. With tragic exceptions, cancer is a disease that mainly affects those aged over 60. Those living in a country where the average life expectancy is only 59 will not have many cancer sufferers, because most of the population die of other causes before they have had the opportunity to develop cancer.
Lord Deben is a career politician, like all career politicians he does not have a clue what goes on in the real world. Hence the uninformed, ignorant remarks!
As a Canadian I am getting a little annoyed at all the American protests of the Keystone XL pipeline. There are currently 6 million bpd (barrels per day) of pipeline capacity being built now or planned in the USA. Keystone is only 800,000 of that. So why is it that the one pipeline that is crossing into Canada is being protested? Why aren’t other pipelines being protested? (Not that they should be). It seems like a lot of Screw Canada from the protesters.
And now I think a lot of Canadians are starting to wake up to the hypocrisy (and there is a lot of it!) in these pipeline protests.
Personally, I love my pipelines. There are twenty or more within walking distance of my house. Natural gas is keeping me nice and warm while it is -30 outside tonight.
I live in a town where Atheist activists forbid our Nuns from praying over ashes of dead babies they’d carried back from the landfill. A few years later, those proud Atheists held three prayer vigils for one dead elk shot by an Atheist.
Years ago a couple of enviro-arsonists ignited a residential complex with gasoline but had been caught on tape. Their attorney suggested they take the ‘just had an abortion’ defense and it worked well.
It will be fun once construction starts. Pipeliners are a pretty wild bunch. I doubt these fruitcakes show up out in the wilderness with a bunch of working pipeliners.
[snip – more slayers junk – mod]
The Guardian Newspaper ran an article yesterday, and I quote:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/09/flood-defences-ukowen-paterson-new-funding
‘Worse, Paterson’s scepticism on climate change – a ludicrous trait in an environment secretary..’
Note how an unelected scribbler called Damian Harrington presumes to have the power, authority and wisdom to determine ACCEPTABLE (not desirable, note) traits in a senior government official. I wasn’t aware that this non-entity of a journalist, whose writings have barely been seen in the past 3 years, was a senior Constitutional Expert hired by Her Majesty to Queen to arbitrate (even that would be rather contentious nowadays in our constitutional monarchy), let alone having being hired by Sir Jeremy Heyward (Secretary to the Cabinet Office aka the most senior civil servant in the land) to do likewise………..
That newspaper continuously allows offensive journalists and bloggers to spout froth, so long as it is pro global warming, pro feminist-supremicist agendas and pro-socialism. It immediately cracks down on anyone who writes dissenting opinion and claims that ‘their voice doesn’t respect others’. What they mean is, it doesn’t fit into Chairman Mao’s acceptable range of conversation. The levels of insults are similar to the sorts of things you publish here and anyone can go and read at the site http://www.theguardian.com will find copious examples of it.
Of course, you will find other sites which go equally far the other way. http://www.telegraph.co.uk and http://www.spectator.co.uk will find bloggers and, to a lesser extent, journalists, who express strident, totalitarian and pretty aggressive derogatory opinions about those with whom they disagree.
All those communities are closed, bigoted, prejudiced, self-reinforcing communities of hatred.
You need to be a very mature negotiator not to lose your temper trying to engage with them.
Difficulty is, there are so few places to engage where measured discussion is the rule of the game.
One of the reasons I come to this site………..
[snip – more slayers junk – mod]
Deben has frequently used the ‘D’ word. He also has green business interests, check out Bishop Hill for details. A rather unpleasant man and he is most famous in the UK for beef burgers.
rtj1211 says:
February 10, 2014 at 12:02 am
Difficulty is, there are so few places to engage where measured discussion is the rule of the game.
One of the reasons I come to this site………..
———————————————————-
My first four years of commenting, about 6,700 comments, was spent mainly at Newsvine.com. I rarely ever go there anymore. I distinctly remember the change in the tone of the debate, and just which side it was that was generating all of the negative, attack comments. It wasn’t the skeptics who started that. What choice is left to the ‘true climate denier’, the AlGore warmist type, other than to continue with more of the same.
I have enjoyed commenting at the Telegraph over the last several years. Early on, I left a comment at their site saying ‘how nice it was to have a civil discourse’. There is some sparring back and forth between some of the regulars, but the tone remains within reason. At sites like msnbc, newsvine, or similar venues, the rabid bloggers are fully entrenched. There is no pretense of discussing the storyline. It is all attack, day after day by the same people, who make the same comments over and over and over………….!
garymount says:
February 9, 2014 at 5:14 pm
“I would like to ask American (U.S. of A) readers of this blog if you have heard murmurs of plans to escape the horrendous conditions of dry weather now being experienced in southern California by loading up vehicles with weapons and heading on down north to Canada?”
“Or is this The Vancouver Sun writer an idiot, a typical warmist?”
The plot makes no sense. If Californians were about to head north in search of water they would cross Washington; that should be wet enough for anyone.
MONEY, Money turns peoples personalities – follow the money.
Let us start with Lorn Deben himself: http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=83087 It looks like this man, and his family, is driven by money making out of green projects. Take his words with spoonfuls of salt.
It is not just Lord Deben. Is Mann’s personal behaviour about science, reputation or money? It is hard to disentangle?
Green money is twisting peoples personalities in a big way. And it turns people on all levels of society, including at local level.
In our locality their are greedy people who want wind turbines because they can become instantly rich for no work. In one case the promoters are building their turbines right next to the stables of a equestrian centre where the break in highly strung thoroughbreds. An activity that needs calm surroundings without distractions. Before they found out about the money to be made from turbines they were well thought of in the neighbourhood, now they are pariahs who will break their neighbours business in order to get at the cash on offer (profits calculated at about 10 – 20 million pounds over a period of 20 year).
There is more money to be made from being green than sceptic. The green movement has attracted the wrong sorts of people into their ranks.
Lord Gummer,
Last week we defeated an application for a wind turbine by Ladygate, the end of months of hard work, meetings, letters and emails by the people of Haverhill. The process has been made extremely difficult by you and politicians like you. You have ignored the questionable science, forced through unrealisable targets and ignored the democratic process. In spite of that we won a battle, the battle of the little people against those who have embraced a fashionable and profitable cause which, by coincidence I’m sure, has given you — and Mr Yeo — political prominence and riches.
When UKIP tabled an anti-AGW motion at Suffolk County Council in December we caused outrage: it was inconceivable that we could doubt the consensus, that we could question the pronouncements which people like Dame Julia Slingo make ex cathedra to the doubting masses. You are enough of a practical politician to know Mencken’s dictum, but I’m pleased to tell you that it looks as if the chihuahua of doom (look it up, it’s on my facebook page) is losing its potency.
Your son inherited a parliamentary seat on the basis that he was… well, your son. Tell him to have a chat to Matthew Hancock and whoever is selected to Mr Yeo’s seat. Tell him that we’re after them all.
The most sobering part of the induction process on becoming a county councillor was the briefing about duty of care. We, I, have a duty of care to the vulnerable. Your wind turbines, your renewable obsessions are killing the old and the poor and the sick. As I have told Matthew Hancock, he is playing Russian roulette with his career — the party in power when the lights begin to go out will be rejected by the electorate for a generation. This winter has been mild. If next winter is cold, and the power stations continue to go off the Grid, we will see more deaths caused by the renewable subsidies forced onto peoples’ bills than from road traffic accidents. Does a noble lord have no duty of care? Does an MP?
Watch your six, my lord. UKIP is out to get your son and those like him who espouse the AGW consensus. It is our duty..
JF
The Fenbeagle cartoon for the Chihuahua of Doom is worth seeing.
I would like to thank all those who have responded to my inquiry. Its reassuring to know that it continues to rain at least occasionally outside of the political borders surrounding the southern half of California. I used to often see reports of flooding in Texas. Way back in the 80s when a group of Texans were training at our facilities for operating and maintaining a tourist submarine for someplace in Indonesia, I became tuned in to Texas related culture. I fondly remember the one Texan we nick named “the round mound of sound”. So anyways, flooding in Texas seemed to be such a common occurrence to me I wondered why it kept being reported over the years. Nowadays I see all extreme weather reports as part of an agenda, and so it goes, by jaundiced eye.
And its true, we Canadians do have guns. I was trained to use military weapons when I was 17 including how to use a machine gun, while in the reserves, based out of the Royal Westminster Regiment in New Westminster, B.C. Good times, lots of marching and even beer, but don’t tell anybody 😉 privileges of service.
Note my inquiry was not serious, I just wanted to highlight the silly types of articles one often reads coming out of the left coast of Canada.
I enjoyed observing people browsing the notice board at the coffee shop today where I had put a copy of Christopher Monckton of Brenchley’s 17 year 5 month no global warming chart. I shall continue the experiment throughout this year with a planned 100 location placement throughout my bicycle riding / coffee shop excursions which have been known to span as far as 50 kilometers away.
I’ve been following this Deben character on twitter for a few months, and always enjoy his tweets. His tweets are like hearing something cute my nieces might say, and I get a good laugh.
Gareth Phillips says: @ur momisugly February 9, 2014 at 12:51 pm
” …One of the things I learned over many years in Psychiatry is that if delusions are challenged they can be re-enforced …”
—-l
negrum says: @ur momisugly February 9, 2014 at 8:38 pm
“I don’t think that statement is as effective on this blog as it would be when dealing with a patient. You might want to re-consider your strategy.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think Gareth is talking about himself and the Earth First criminals.
Brad says: @ur momisugly February 9, 2014 at 8:41 pm
Richard,
Nicely played…
Maybe we should contact Sindicatum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are several other “Gareth Phillips in the UK so don’t jump the gun.
Gail,
No accusations intended, simply asking questions to get a better understanding. (Along with a little levity.)
What would any of us do if someone came on board having our same name and expressed an opposite opinion in a non-beneficial manner?
As for Washington: the eastern half is much different than the western half, both in climate and politics. The local joke up here back in the late 80’s was “Don’t Californicate Washington”. They were coming up with lots of real estate money and raising housing prices.