Public Relations (Spin Doctors) Deliberately Deceived Public About Global Warming and Climate Change

Spin[1]Guest essay by Dr. Tim Ball

Half the work done in the world is to make things appear what they are not. E.R. Beadle.

In a 2003 speech Michael Crichton, graduate of Harvard Medical School and author of State of fear, said,

I have been asked to talk about what I consider the most important challenge facing mankind, and I have a fundamental answer. The greatest challenge facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance.

We are in virtual reality primarily as Public Relations (PR) and its methods are applied to every aspect of our lives. The term “spin doctors” is more appropriate because it is what they are really doing. A spin doctor is defined as: a spokesperson employed to give a favorable interpretation of events to the media, esp. on behalf of a political party. It doesn’t say truthful interpretation. There are lies of commission and omission and this definition bypasses the category of omission. It’s reasonable to argue that if you deliberately commit a sin of omission it encompasses both. A favorable interpretation means there is deliberate premeditated deception. The person knows the truth, but selects information to create a false interpretation.

Despite all the discussion and reports about weather and climate the public are unaware of even the most fundamental facts. Recently, I gave a three hour presentation with question and answers. The audience was educated people who distrust government and were sympathetic to my information. I decided to illustrate my point and concern by asking a few basic questions. Nobody could tell me the difference between weather and climate. Nobody could name the three major so-called greenhouse gases, let alone explain the mechanics of the greenhouse theory. My goal was not to embarrass, but to illustrate how little they knew and how easily PR can deceive and misdirect.

Few people exemplify or describe the modern PR views better (worse?) than Jim Hoggan, President of a large Canadian PR company, Hoggan and Associates, in the Vancouver Sun December 30, 2005.

Want good coverage? Tell a good story. When your business is under siege, you can’t hope to control the situation without first controlling the story. The most effective form of communication is a compelling narrative that ties your interest to those of your audience. This is particularly critical when you’re caught in the spotlight; it doesn’t matter if you have the facts on your side if your detractors are framing the story. So, don’t just react. Take some time now to define your company story. Then you’ll be ready to build a response into that narrative should something go wrong.

Environment and climate suffer more from spinning than most areas and Hoggan, as Chair of the David Suzuki Foundation and owner of a large PR company, has a long connection with both. He is the proud founder and supporter of the web site DeSmogBlog as he explains in his book about the climate cover-up. The objective was to denigrate people by creating “favorable interpretations” to the following questions. “Were these climate skeptics qualified? Were they doing any research in the climate change field? Were they accepting money, directly or indirectly, from the fossil fuel industry?This wasn’t about answering the questions skeptics were asking about the science. Richard Littlemore, Hoggan’s co-author and senior writer for DeSmogBlog, revealed what was going on in a December 2007 email to Michael Mann.

Hi Michael [Mann],

I’m a DeSmogBlog writer [Richard LIttlemore] (sic) (I got your email from Kevin Grandia) and I am trying to fend off the latest announcement that global warming has not actually occurred in the 20th century.

It looks to me like Gerd Burger is trying to deny climate change by “smoothing,” “correcting” or otherwise rounding off the temperatures that we know for a flat fact have been recorded since the 1970s, but I am out of my depth (as I am sure you have noticed: we’re all about PR here, not much about science) so I wonder if you guys have done anything or are going to do anything with Burger’s intervention in Science. (Emphasis added)

The hypocrisy is profound because nobody ever questioned Al Gore’s qualifications or financial, career or political rewards. No promoters of global warming, such as Bill McKibben, Ross Gelbspan, Seth Borenstein, Andrew Revkin or most members of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) are challenged. Borenstein exposed his bias in a leaked CRU email from July 23, 2009 to the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) gang. He wrote, “Kevin (Trenberth), Gavin (Schmidt), Mike (Mann), It’s Seth again. Attached is a paper in JGR today that Marc Morano is hyping wildly. It’s in a legit journal. Watchya think?A journalist talking to scientists is legitimate, but like the leaked emails, tone and subjectivity are telling. “Again” means there was previous communication. At least Revkin left the New York Times apparently because of such exposure.

The problem began the moment environmentalism and climate were exploited for political agendas and people asked questions. If you can’t answer the questions you either admit that or initiate personal attacks. Spin-doctors use two basic types.

• The individual is named and a slur applied. These are usually false or at best taken out of context. This includes guilt by association and taking payment from an agency or belonging to a group the slanderer considers inappropriate. It is an ad hominem.

• Individuals are marginalized by putting them in a group with a term created that marginalizes by implying they are at best outside any norm. For example, despite obvious limitations of data availability anyone who asks about President Obama’s biography is called a “Birther”. Anyone who is troubled by incomplete, unclear, or illogical explanations for events is called a “Conspiracy theorist”. There is no word or phrase for falsifying information about a group. A collective ad hominem is a contradiction. Guilt by association has some application, but a term like “Birther” has a different function. It is a collective designed to discredit anyone assigned. There can be no general name because the objective is to identify the group with a specific issue. This is necessary as part of the goal of marginalizing or isolating.

Early indicators of the politicizing of climate included the claim of a consensus. The word applies in politics not science Calling people who questioned the science “skeptics” was greater evidence. “Skeptic” is negative for the public and defined as “A person inclined to question or doubt all accepted opinions. Most think it is the definition for a cynic, A person who believes that people are motivated purely by self-interest rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reasons. The problem is most people don’t know that scientists must be skeptics.

The epithet “global warming skeptic” was applied to me years ago and was used in questions from the media. When I explained I accepted global warming the media was surprised. They didn’t understand when I explained my skepticism was about the cause – the claim it was due to human CO2. Some labeled me a contrarian, but it wasn’t effective because few know what it means.

When the basic assumption of the IPCC hypothesis that increased CO2 causes increased temperature stopped occurring after 1998, the attackers changed the subject and the pejorative. They raised the smearing level because they were losing the battle for the public mind. Now it became climate change and questioners deniers with the deliberate association with “holocaust deniers”.

Ironically, like all so-labeled, I am anything but a denier. My 40-year career involved teaching people how much climate changes naturally over time. The IPCC were deliberately constrained by their terms of reference to human causes and don’t consider natural changes. Rather they provide a “favorable interpretation” for their political objective to blame human CO2. It’s an interpretation a required spin to counter what Huxley called ugly facts.

Every time a problem appeared public relations people appeared and strategized a defense, usually to divert from the problem. When the emails were leaked from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) a public relations person was engaged. After the November 2009 leak the University of East Anglia hired Neil Wallis of Outside Organization to handle the fall out. University spokesperson Trevor Davies said it was a “reputation management problem, which he said they don’t handle well. Apparently they didn’t consider telling the truth. The leaked emails triggered a shock wave that required a top political spin-doctor. Wallis, a former editor at the News of The World, was later arrested in connection with the phone hacking scandals that led to the resignation of London Metropolitan Police Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner, as well as Andy Coulson, Prime Minister Cameron’s press secretary.

Michael Mann’s 2004 email to CRU Director Phil Jones was evidence of the PR battle. Confronted by challenging questions they apparently developed a defensive mentality.

“I’ve personally stopped responding to these, they’re going to get a few of these op-ed pieces out here and there, but the important thing is to make sure they’re loosing (sic) the PR battle. That’s what the site is about. By the way, Gavin did come up w/ the name!”

The “site” is the web site Realclimate, named by Gavin (Schmidt). But science doesn’t need PR, so why do climate scientists use it? The apparent answer is they are not telling the truth and worse, know it.

I opened with a quote from Michael Crichton so it is fitting to end with his closing remarks.

Because in the end, science offers us the only way out of politics. And if we allow science to become politicized, then we are lost. We will enter the Internet version of the dark ages, an era of shifting fears and wild prejudices, transmitted to people who don’t know any better. That’s not a good future for the human race. That’s our past. So it’s time to abandon the religion of environmentalism, and return to the science of environmentalism, and base our public policy decisions firmly on that.

The problem and challenge is the population generally divides into 80 percent who struggle with science and 20 percent who are comfortable. I taught a science credit for arts students for 25 years so know the challenges. This makes resolving Crichton’s challenge of “distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda, even more difficult. It is almost impossible when professional spin-doctors are deliberately diverting, misleading and creating confusion.

The improver of natural knowledge absolutely refuses to acknowledge authority, as such. For him, skepticism is the highest of duties; blind faith the one unpardonable sin.Thomas H. Huxley

A danger sign of the lapse from true skepticism in to dogmatism is an inability to respect those who disagreeDr. Leonard George.

“It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.” –Thomas Jefferson

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Trick
November 7, 2013 7:13 pm

Konrad 6:36pm: “But of course I know the answers…”
Great. Let’s see those 6 answers. Using proper theory, proper experiments. Cites, etc.

Genghis
November 7, 2013 7:48 pm

Dumb Scientist says:
November 7, 2013 at 5:57 pm
Genghis says:
November 7, 2013 at 5:38 pm
“The fact that sunlight doesn’t warm the surface of Venus is evidence that Venus’s surface temperature is not from the GHG effect. Do you fundamentally misunderstand the greenhouse effect?”
First you said “the surface of Venus doesn’t receive any direct sunlight” which is technically true because every day on Venus is overcast. It’s all indirect sunlight. But now you’re saying “sunlight doesn’t warm the surface of Venus” which is just wrong. Remember that Venera 9 landed on the surface of Venus and found “surface light levels comparable to those at Earth mid-latitudes on a cloudy summer day.” Check out the panorama:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera_9
——————–
Let me be clearer then. Direct solar radiation does not reach the surface of Venus and heat it, it heats the surface indirectly and is not analogous to Earth.
Why don’t you use Hansen’s equation and compute Venus’s surface temperature? ∆Ts = λ∆F that should be trivial for you : )
——————–
“Mercury has the least atmosphere of any of the planets. Why aren’t you comparing Venus to Jupiter? Jupiter’s surface temperature is due to the greenhouse effect too, just as much as Venus’s is anyway.”
A planet with no atmosphere is a simple case where the effective radiating level is at the surface, so the equilibrium surface temperature can be determined using the planet’s albedo and distance from the Sun. The greenhouse effect modifies this simple case, which is why Venus is hotter than Mercury.
Jupiter doesn’t have a clearly defined surface, and generates substantial internal heat in ways that tiny rocks like Venus and Mercury simply can’t.
—————–
That is interesting. Mercuries ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ surface temperature is apx. 700K (S-B says it should be 633K but the rock doesn’t rotate). Venus’s ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ surface temperature is 460K. (S-B should be 327k). The earths ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ ocean surface temperature is 295K (S-B number is 278k).
Hmm, Mercury’s ‘equilibrium’ surface temperature without an atmosphere is higher than its SB number? How is that possible without greenhouse gases?

Ed_B
November 7, 2013 7:51 pm

Dumb Scientist: here is some physics for you:
by Harry Dale Huffman
Surprisingly to most, there is no greenhouse effect at all, and you can prove it for yourself. You can find the temperature and pressure profiles for the Venusian atmosphere at
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918vpt.htm
With those graphs, you can confirm that, at the altitude where the pressure = 1000 millibars, which is the sea level pressure of Earth, the temperature of the Venusian atmosphere is 66ºC = 339K.
This is much warmer than the temperature at the surface of the Earth, at pressure = 1000 millibars, which is about 15ºC = 288K. HOWEVER
Venus is closer to the Sun, and gets proportionally more power from it. Earth is 93 million miles from the Sun, on average, while Venus is only 67.25 million (on average) from the Sun. Since the intensity of the Sun’s radiation decreases with distance from it as 1 over r-squared, Venus receives (93/67.25) squared, or 1.91 times the power per unit area that Earth receives, on average.
Since the radiating temperature of an isolated body in space varies as the fourth-root of the power incident upon it, by the Stefan-Boltzmann law, the radiating temperature of Venus should be the fourth-root of 1.91 = 1.18 times that of the Earth. Furthermore, since the atmospheric pressure varies as the temperature, the temperature at any given pressure level in the Venusian atmosphere should be 1.18 times the temperature at that same pressure level in the Earth atmosphere, INDEPENDENT OF ANY INFRARED ABSORPTION in the atmosphere. In particular, the averaged temperature at 1000 millibars on Earth is about 15ºC = 288K, so the corresponding temperature on Venus, WITHOUT ANY GREENHOUSE EFFECT, should be 1.18 times that, or 339K. But this is just 66ºC, the temperature we actually find there from the temperature and pressure profiles for Venus.
So there is no greenhouse effect. You have just proved that climate science is utterly wrong to think otherwise. This is the scandal that so many “experts” in climate science, and all the scientific authorities, will not face. Listen to the physicists that tell you there is no greenhouse effect; they know without having to go to the Venus data — and I am one of them. The continuing incompetence on this vital point among so many scientists, for more than a century, is amazing, and tragic..

Dumb Scientist
November 7, 2013 8:09 pm

Genghis says:
November 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm
“That is interesting. Mercuries ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ surface temperature is apx. 700K (S-B says it should be 633K but the rock doesn’t rotate). Venus’s ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ surface temperature is 460K. (S-B should be 327k). The earths ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ ocean surface temperature is 295K (S-B number is 278k).”
Citations? Especially for your claim that Mercury doesn’t rotate. I thought it was in a 3:2 spin-orbit resonance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28planet%29#Orbit_and_rotation

Konrad
November 7, 2013 8:17 pm

Trick says:
November 7, 2013 at 7:13 pm
——————————————-
Trick,
while we give “dumb scientist “ a chance at those six simple questions, perhaps you could help out in an area you appear to be knowledgeable in. Was Arrhenius’ lab ISO9001 accredited? 😉

Dumb Scientist
November 7, 2013 8:20 pm

Ed_B says:
November 7, 2013 at 7:51 pm
“… the radiating temperature of Venus should be the fourth-root of 1.91 = 1.18 times that of the Earth. …”
What about albedo?
But seriously, could you please answer this yes/no/dunno question: are you claiming that Venus would have the same surface temperature if its atmosphere were pure nitrogen, which isn’t a greenhouse gas?
Your answer sounded like a very long “yes”.

Genghis
November 7, 2013 8:27 pm

Dumb Scientist says:
November 7, 2013 at 8:09 pm
Genghis says:
November 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm
“That is interesting. Mercuries ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ surface temperature is apx. 700K (S-B says it should be 633K but the rock doesn’t rotate). Venus’s ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ surface temperature is 460K. (S-B should be 327k). The earths ‘EQUILIBRIUM’ ocean surface temperature is 295K (S-B number is 278k).”
Citations? Especially for your claim that Mercury doesn’t rotate. I thought it was in a 3:2 spin-orbit resonance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28planet%29#Orbit_and_rotation
_______
Yes Mercury rotates every 175 days, that is essentially non rotating for our ‘equilibrium’ purposes. As far as cites can’t you do simple S-B calculations?
Which reminds me, What is your answer to Hansen’s equation for Venus (or Earth for that matter)? ∆Ts = λ∆F That should be trivially easy to look up or solve shouldn’t it? It is the underpinning of the GHG theory after all.
If you can’t solve the equation, why not?

Trick
November 7, 2013 9:02 pm

Konrad 8:17pm: “Was Arrhenius’ lab ISO9001 accredited?”
ISO9000 series starts around 1987. Svante August Arrhenius: 19 February 1859 – 2 October 1927. Konrad lab now has the opportunity to get ISO certified and do even better than some of the earlier experimental work.
Apparently Konrad doesn’t have the proper answers to his own 6 questions, has to wait for “Dumb Scientist” to do all the proper work?
While we give Konrad a chance at understanding the simple atm. science known from prior experiment and 1st principle theory as early as Callendar 1938, perhaps Konrad could just go ahead and propose answers to his 6 questions citing published lab tests consistent with that publication.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.49706427503/pdf

Dumb Scientist
November 7, 2013 9:05 pm

Genghis says:
November 7, 2013 at 8:27 pm
“Yes Mercury rotates every 175 days, that is essentially non rotating for our ‘equilibrium’ purposes. As far as cites can’t you do simple S-B calculations?”
———
Apparently the American Chemical Society can’t:
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/energybalance/planetarytemperatures.html
———
“Which reminds me, What is your answer to Hansen’s equation for Venus (or Earth for that matter)? ∆Ts = λ∆F That should be trivially easy to look up or solve shouldn’t it? It is the underpinning of the GHG theory after all. If you can’t solve the equation, why not?”
———
You didn’t specified the change in forcing, ∆F. That equation describes the equilibrium change in surface temperature ∆Ts when the radiative forcing changes by ∆F.
It’s also increasingly hard to believe that any of these comments are motivated by curiosity. I’m sorry to have bothered you gentlemen. Cheers.

Konrad
November 7, 2013 9:45 pm

Trick says:
November 7, 2013 at 9:02 pm
—————————————-
Trick,
you’re not very good at this are you? Why on earth would you post a link to to that copy of Callendar 1938?
Callender is yet another that tried to solve for radiation only without solving for fluid dynamics and the role radiative gases play in driving atmospheric circulation.
For other readers seeking further entertainment from Tricks efforts, simply follow the link Trick posted and scroll through the pdf to Sir George Simpsons discussion comments. Then look again at the six questions I asked of Dumb Scientist above.
Another epic fail Trick 😉

Genghis
November 8, 2013 4:10 am

Dumb Scientist says:
November 7, 2013 at 9:05 pm
Genghis says:
November 7, 2013 at 8:27 pm
“Yes Mercury rotates every 175 days, that is essentially non rotating for our ‘equilibrium’ purposes. As far as cites can’t you do simple S-B calculations?”
———
Apparently the American Chemical Society can’t:
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/energybalance/planetarytemperatures.html
———-
———-
Then you also agree that for ‘Equilibrium’ purposes Mercury’s rotation is too slow to matter?
———-
———-
———
“Which reminds me, What is your answer to Hansen’s equation for Venus (or Earth for that matter)? ∆Ts = λ∆F That should be trivially easy to look up or solve shouldn’t it? It is the underpinning of the GHG theory after all. If you can’t solve the equation, why not?”
———
You didn’t specified the change in forcing, ∆F. That equation describes the equilibrium change in surface temperature ∆Ts when the radiative forcing changes by ∆F.
————
————
That is correct, I didn’t specify anything. It is the warmist equation after all.
The most important part of the equation is the λ (sensitivity) and that is completely undefined.
You have put your finger on the most important part of the equation though, it is a nonsense equation.
————
————
It’s also increasingly hard to believe that any of these comments are motivated by curiosity. I’m sorry to have bothered you gentlemen. Cheers.
———
———
No bother at all Dumb Scientist. The odd part was why you thought you had any answers? Maybe you should first try to solve the GHG equation before becoming the fount of knowledge.

Ed_B
November 8, 2013 4:20 am
Trick
November 8, 2013 5:11 am

Konrad 9:45pm: “Callender is yet another that tried to solve for radiation only without solving for fluid dynamics and the role radiative gases play in driving atmospheric circulation.”
There is no try, only do or do not. Callendar’s 1st principle simple science citing prior experiment succeeded & predicted the range of future earth Tmean anomaly 75 years into the future remarkably well. Unlike Konrad doing experiments drawing conclusions about molecule avg. kinetic energy in a box by measuring temperature at 1 point and certain supercomputer climate models.
Read the paper? Callendar discusses effects of atm. circulation & oceans. The reason Konrad is vitriolic: Callendar 1938 paper and subsequent modern text books thoroughly disprove Konrad assertion that “The net effect of radiative gases is atmospheric cooling at all concentrations above 0.0ppm.”
Note Callendar 1938 not a CAGW enthusiast: “…likely to prove beneficial to mankind…For instance, the above mentioned small increases of mean temperature would be important at the northern margin of cultivation…return of deadly glaciers…postponed.”
I recommend lighten up Konrad, read up on the proper science. Get your experiments tuned into the proper scientific method, my suggestion of ISO standardization/certification is only one way.

Genghis
November 8, 2013 5:12 am

Ed_B says:
November 8, 2013 at 4:20 am
More Venus discussion:
Ed, if you take a tank and pressurize it with air it will heat up, exactly in accordance with the gas pressure laws. The problem is what happens later after the hot tank has cooled. The pressure has stayed the same, but the temperature has dropped.
So the question is, what keeps the pressurized air in our atmosphere warm, if It isn’t pressure?
The answer is that GHG’s thermalize the IR radiation. GHG’s are responsible for creating the lapse rate in the atmosphere.

Gail Combs
November 8, 2013 5:14 am

Steven R. Vada says: November 7, 2013 at 7:16 am
Also a good simple understanding of the fundamentals, of physics, is of great aid in mocking this voodoo nonsense. The atmosphere’s a mass the sun doesn’t heat, so it’s cold. It’s attached to a solid planet the sun does heat so it’s warm.
Go look at the IPCC/Kiel/Trenberth cartoon exemplifying it all: a magical gas mirror in the sky….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
John Kehr (Chemical Engineer) has an excellent thread dismantling that cartoon: http://theinconvenientskeptic.com/2010/11/the-earths-energy-balance-simple-overview/
He also has a Radiative Heat Transfer series:
Radiative Heat Transfer is “The linchpin of the global warming debate…”
http://theinconvenientskeptic.com/tag/radiative-heat-transfer/

Konrad
November 8, 2013 5:39 am

Trick says:
November 8, 2013 at 5:11 am
————————————–
Fool. It wont work now. You linked to the wrong copy of Callenders paper. The copy where the review discussion is attached. You failed so unbelievably badly it beggars the imagination! The scientists offering criticisms in discussion are concerned about the very physics my experiments cover. And in 1938 no less. Why on earth did you link to that?
But it’s not your first epic fail is it Trick? Remember January at Talkshop? Totally owned.
But then I did warn you that AGW physics only works for spherical chickens in a vacuum. Chickens may rapidly become spherical when introduced to the hard vacuum of space. They just don’t stay that way for long…
Trick, I think your chicken asplode again. Like always, you lose. 😉

Trick
November 8, 2013 6:05 am

Konrad 5:11am: “The scientists offering criticisms in discussion are concerned about the very physics my experiments cover.”
Very good reading my friend. This Callendar 1938 paper is just like a blog post at the end. It even lists the peer reviews! Callendar way ahead of his time. Yes indeed, of course I get Konrad view must be every physicist bearing proper science and experiment that counters his assertion I clipped gets a fail. Konrad avoids just improvement or accepts ISO cert.s would help his kitchen lab conclusions.
Got those 6 answers using scientific method properly cited for us Konrad?

Genghis
November 8, 2013 6:42 am

If you don’t mind Konrad and if Anthony indulges us I would like to take a crack at your questions : )
Konrad says:
November 7, 2013 at 5:43 pm
Dumb Scientist says:
November 7, 2013 at 5:11 pm
—————————————–
Well, if you’ve be trying to apply SB equations to moving planetary atmospheres with a pressure gradient and a diurnal heating cycle, then you really would be a dumb scientist. (or science “communicator” as the case may be). However I would be willing to extend the benefit of the doubt if you could provide clear and direct Yes or No answers to the following six simple questions –
1. Do radiative gases such as H2O and CO2 both absorb and emit IR radiation? Yes or No?
————-
Absolutely, H20 is the number one GHG.
————–
2. Are Radiative gases critical to strong vertical tropospheric convective circulation? Yes or No?
————
Absolutely, without H20 there would be no convective circulation.
————
3. Does altering the quantity of radiative gases in the atmosphere alter the speed of tropospheric convective circulation? Yes or No?
————-
Absolutely, No H2O no convective circulation, the other radiative gases may initiate it earlier.
————–
4. Is convective circulation including the transport of water vapour the primary mechanism for transporting energy from the surface and lower atmosphere to the upper atmosphere? Yes or No?
—————
absolutely
—————
5. Are radiative gases the primary mechanism for energy loss to space from the upper atmosphere? Yes or No?
————-
Absolutely, and I should note that all gasses radiate.
————-
6. Does down welling LWIR emitted from the atmosphere significantly effect the cooling rate of liquid water that is free to evaporatively cool? Yes or No.
————-
Absolutely
————-
In 1896 Arrhenius got most of these wrong. However this is 2013 so I’m sure you can do better 😉
————
I don’t know how anyone could get those wrong.

Ed_B
November 8, 2013 7:43 am

Genghis says:
” The pressure has stayed the same, but the temperature has dropped”
????
Please cite an actual experiment to back that up.

Genghis
November 8, 2013 8:00 am

Ed_B says:
November 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
Genghis says:
” The pressure has stayed the same, but the temperature has dropped”
????
Please cite an actual experiment to back that up.
———
Ed, think about what I said. Take an IR thermometer (or any thermometer) and point it at some aerosol cans in your cupboard. They are all at room temperature, right? They are also all at higher than room pressure right?
There is your actual experimental data to back up what I said.
The air inside the cans was warmed when it was pressurized but the heat radiated away. Pressure, by itself, has no relationship to temperature.

Ed_B
November 8, 2013 8:24 am

Genghis says:
“Ed, think about what I said.”
I did, then fell off my chair laughing. Clearly you have never heated up an enclosed container to get it to burst from the increased internal pressure. Even as a child I knew intuitively that would work.

Genghis
November 8, 2013 8:39 am

Ed_B says:
November 8, 2013 at 8:24 am
Genghis says:
“Ed, think about what I said.”
I did, then fell off my chair laughing. Clearly you have never heated up an enclosed container to get it to burst from the increased internal pressure. Even as a child I knew intuitively that would work.
—————
Yes indeed, cans of beans, Scouts and fires are dangerous things : ) Did you notice in your example and admission that I am right, you have to heat up the container?
You are confusing the work done by pressurizing the gas thereby temporarily raising the temperature. The increase in temperature was the result of work done on the system. Containers of gas at different pressures can all have the same temperature.
An atmosphere in equilibrium is isothermal.

Gail Combs
November 8, 2013 8:59 am

Genghis says:
November 8, 2013 at 8:00 am
… Ed, think about what I said. Take an IR thermometer (or any thermometer) and point it at some aerosol cans in your cupboard. They are all at room temperature, right? They are also all at higher than room pressure right?
There is your actual experimental data to back up what I said.
The air inside the cans was warmed when it was pressurized but the heat radiated away. Pressure, by itself, has no relationship to temperature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry, you have it backwards. If you place hot liquid into a pan leaving an air space (hot soup in a saucepan for example) and seal it, once it cools you have a ‘Vacuum’ from the lowering of the air pressure inside. I have a very nice example of it sitting in my frig. that I am about to eat if I can unseal the darn lid. :>)
PV=nRT

Genghis
November 8, 2013 9:43 am

Gail Combs says:
November 8, 2013 at 8:59 am
Sorry, you have it backwards. If you place hot liquid into a pan leaving an air space (hot soup in a saucepan for example) and seal it, once it cools you have a ‘Vacuum’ from the lowering of the air pressure inside. I have a very nice example of it sitting in my frig. that I am about to eat if I can unseal the darn lid. :>)
PV=nRT
—————-
I see what you did there : ) Are you claiming that your ‘Vacuum’ is at a lower temperature than the soup? Think about it. The first question you should ask is if it is reasonable.

Dumb Scientist
November 8, 2013 10:26 am

Genghis says:
November 8, 2013 at 4:10 am
Apparently the American Chemical Society can’t:
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/energybalance/planetarytemperatures.html
———-
“Then you also agree that for ‘Equilibrium’ purposes Mercury’s rotation is too slow to matter?”
—-
I posted that link because it contradicts the uncited temperatures you gave on November 7, 2013 at 7:48 pm. In reality, there is no significant difference between the predicted black-body temperature of Mercury and its observed surface temperature.