
Note: if the name below is familiar to you it is because of this article from Monday. This will be a sticky post for a day or two, new stories will appear below this one– Anthony
Guest essay by Jonathan Abbott
Please allow me to recount the details of my personal path to CAGW scepticism. I have never previously found myself at odds with the scientific mainstream and at times it feels quite odd. Perhaps others here have similar experiences? I am curious to know how fellow-readers came to their current views. If some have gone from genuine scepticism to accepting CAGW, I would find that especially fascinating.
My own story begins at school in England in the early 80s. Between playing with Bunsen burners and iron filings, I remember being told that some scientists predicted that we would soon enter a new ice age. This sounded quite exciting but I never really thought it would happen; I was too young then to have seen any significant change in the world around me and it all seemed rather far-fetched. A nuclear war seemed far more likely. Soon enough the whole scare melted away.
I grew up into a graduate engineer with an interest in most branches of science but especially physics. I read the usual books by Sagan, Feynman and later Dawkins (whose The Ancestor’s Tale I simply can’t recommend highly enough). I also dipped into philosophy via Bertrand Russell. I like to think this reading helped build upon the basic capabilities for critical thinking my education had provided.
I suppose it was in the early 90s that I first noticed predictions of global warming and the associated dire warnings of calamities to come. Some of these emanated from the Met Office and so I knew should be treated with a pinch of salt but other sources included NASA, which I then personally still very much respected; despite the space shuttle evidently being the wrong concept poorly executed, their basic scientific expertise seemed unquestionable. In general I was looking forward to the warmer climate predicted for the UK, and assumed that the overall effects for the globe wouldn’t necessarily all be bad.
Now, being English I knew all about the vagaries of the weather, but the warnings about CAGW always seemed to be made in the most certain terms. Was it really possible to predict the climate so assuredly? The global climate must be an extremely complex system, and very chaotic. I had recently heard about financial institutions that were spending vast sums of money and picking the very best maths and programming graduates, but still were unable to predict the movements of financial markets with any confidence. Predicting changes to the climate must be at least as difficult, surely? I bet myself climate scientists weren’t being recruited with the sort of signing-on bonuses dangled by Wall Street. I also thought back to the ice age scare, which was not presented as an absolute certainty. Why the unequivocal certainty now that we would only see warming, and to dangerous levels? It all started to sound implausible.
The whole thing also seemed uncertain on the simple grounds of common sense. Could mankind really force such a fundamental change in our environment, and so quickly? I understood that ice ages could come and go with extreme rapidity, and that following the scare of my childhood, no one seriously claimed to be able to predict them. So in terms of previous natural variability, CAGW was demonstrably minor in scale. It seemed obvious that if natural variability suddenly switched to a period of cooling, there would be no CAGW no matter what the effect of mankind on the atmosphere. Even more fundamentally, how could anyone really be certain that the warming then taking place wasn’t just natural variability anyway? The reports I read assured me it wasn’t, but rarely in enough detail to allow me to decide whether I agreed with the data or not.
The other thing that really got me thinking was seeing the sort of people that would appear on television, proselyting about the coming tragedy that it would imminently become too late to prevent. Whether from charities, pressure groups or the UN, I knew I had heard their strident and political use of language, and their determination to be part of the Great Crusade to Save the World before. These were the CND campaigners, class war agitators and useful fools for communism in a new guise. I suddenly realised that after the end of the Cold War, rather than slinking off in embarrassed fashion to do something useful, they had latched onto a new cause. The suggested remedies I heard them espouse were always socialist in approach, requiring the installation of supra-national bodies, always taking a top-down approach and furiously spending other peoples’ money. They were clearly eager participants in an endless bureaucratic jamboree.
Now don’t get me wrong: a scientific theory is correct or not regardless of who supports it. But recognising the most vocal proponents of CAGW for what they were set alarm bells ringing, and made me want to investigate further. I had always been somewhat sympathetic towards Friends of the Earth but much less so towards Greenpeace, by that time obviously a front for luddite socialism and basically shamanistic in outlook. I had deep personal concerns about the environment, having seen reports of terrible industrial pollution in developing countries and the former Eastern Bloc. I had also sailed across the Atlantic twice in a small yacht, and seen for myself floating plastic debris hundreds of miles from land. (I also saw an ‘eco warrior’ yacht in Antigua, lived on by a crusading hippy and daubed with environmental slogans. It was poorly maintained and leaked far more oil into the water than any other boat present.)
So I was quite passionate about the environment, but my focus was on keeping it clean and safe for all life to live in. I wanted people to stop overfishing and manage fish stocks sensibly, I wanted agricultural land to produce the best long-term yields possible, to provide enough food without encroaching on wilderness and wild spaces. I wanted people everywhere to have clean air to breathe and water to drink. I had hoped that the CAGW crusade would somehow also lead to more urgent progress in fighting pollution, and the other environmental issues I cared about. If anything it did the reverse. Why the absolute fixation on reducing CO2 emissions, why was it taken for granted that this was the only way to proceed? Where was the public debate about the balance between prevention and mitigation? The CAGW protagonists always came up with solutions that were anti-industrial, anti-development and always, always required more public money. Where was the encouragement for inventors and entrepreneurs to discover and develop new technologies? And most of all, why oh why not spend some of the huge sums of money thrown at CO2 instead on getting effective pollution controls enacted in developing countries?
It had become quite clear to me that the BBC and similar media organisations would never even discuss whether the science underpinning CAGW was really robust. It had simply become a truism. An occasional doubting voice would be offered a sliver of airtime in the interests of supposed impartiality, but a proponent of CAGW would always be allowed the (much longer) last word. But, if NASA kept having to adjust their course calculations as the Voyager probes entered the outer reaches of the solar system (an utterly trivial problem compared to the complexities of the global climate), how could the science possibly be settled as claimed? Surely the great joy of science is in admitting ignorance, in taking a finely honed theory and sharpening it still further, or even better in realising a fundamental mistake and stepping aside onto a new path? The claimed certainty itself seemed unscientific.
Then in 2007 I saw a trailer on television for the forthcoming documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle. I watched it excitedly, for here finally were people publicly addressing the science and the data, but drawing alternative conclusions to the mainstream. There was none of the usual hand-waving and appeals to trust the experts, who magically seemed to be the only doubt-free scientists in recorded history. The backlash against the program told its own story too, being mainly outraged appeals to authority and conscience.
Having recently become a regular user of the internet, I started digging around looking for more information and so, soon after he started it, I found Warren Meyer’s excellent web site climate-skeptic.com. Oh, the joy! Here were links to data I could see and evaluate myself; here was critical dissection of reports and papers accepted elsewhere without demur. From there, I moved onto WUWT, Bishop Hill, Climate Audit and all the other sites that have become part of my daily round of the internet whenever I have access. However late to the party compared with many regulars at WUWT, I could now see fully both sides of the argument.
When the Climategate emails were released, some further scales fell from my eyes. I had hitherto assumed that most of the most prominent scientists supporting CAGW were well intentioned but wrong, akin to those opposing the theory of continental drift. I have taken part in many lengthy email exchanges concerning technically complex projects, and instantly recognised familiar methods used by those playing the political and bureaucratic game, for whom the data is infinitely malleable in order to reach a pre-determined goal. I had fought against this kind of factual distortion myself.
Now at this point, I am sure some (perhaps many?) readers are thinking, ‘Great, an inside view of how someone becomes a believer in a conspiracy theory, perhaps I’ll base a research paper on this idiot’. My response is that like most people I have at times stumbled upon the real conspiracy theory nuts lurking on the internet. But on WUWT and other CAGW-sceptic sites criticism of the position of the website founder isn’t just tolerated but often encouraged. ‘Prove us wrong! Please! It would be fascinating!’ There are many articles and views published on WUWT that I treat with suspicion, or even downright disagree with, but it is all stimulating and usually well argued. Plus, I am an experienced professional engineer and know what real science looks like, and when people are misusing it as a smokescreen. Neil Armstrong was a great man, and most certainly did land on the moon. Right or wrong, WUWT is a site that considers real scientific issues.
So I now find myself wondering where we go from here. The global climate will continue to change, as it has always done, and although I tend to expect some cooling I am pretty agnostic about it. Nature will assuredly do its own thing. The CAGW scare is in the process of burning out, but I do not expect an outright or imminent collapse. I hope to see the deliberate manipulators of data punished, but doubt very much it will ever come to that. Whatever happens next, it will undoubtedly be interesting, and stimulate much discussion and widely varying viewpoints. This is good news, because it means that we are back to doing science.
Mr. Abbot-
Like so many other commenting on your post, I first visited this blog with the hopes of engaging in thought-provoking discussions about the science of climate change. Instead, I found myself consistently and rudely shouted down when I suggested an alternative point of view. When I posted a comment during my unpaid lunch break at work (a government office) Anthony personally emailed me threatening to “expose” my activity to my superiors. I’ve seen more name-calling and poorly veiled threats of violence on this blog than I can count. Anthony and his followers regularly bemoan the use of terms like “denier”, but colorful phrases like “eco-idiots” make up a healthy chunk of the lexicon here, by bloggers and commenters alike. It’s a virtual lock that I will be floored by hypocrisy each time I visit this blog.
I would ask you to continue reading the WUWT posts and comments and keep track of how often you come across a well-formed conclusion based on an understanding of peer-reviewed science and how often you find yourself exposed to nothing more than a profound and paranoid distaste for government. My guess is you will find, as I did, that the ratio is nowhere near what one should reasonably expect from a “science” blog.
Please, withhold your judgement of Anthony, his fellow authors and the denizens of this website until you’ve taken time to carefully and thoughtfully examine the ideas and words posted here with the same skeptical intuition described in your post.
All the best.
tonyb says:
July 27, 2013 at 5:57 am
Gareth Phillips says:
July 27, 2013 at 8:26 am
– Baroness Thatcher, Statecraft, 2002
Phil M. says:
July 27, 2013 at 9:42 am
“When I posted a comment during my unpaid lunch break at work (a government office) Anthony personally emailed me threatening to “expose” my activity to my superiors”
And yet, here you are freely being allowed to post. What aren’t you telling us about this conflict? What, exactly, did you post?
“Anthony and his followers regularly bemoan the use of terms like “denier”, but colorful phrases like “eco-idiots” make up a healthy chunk of the lexicon here, by bloggers and commenters alike.”
“Eco-idiot” is obviously an empty taunt intended to vent frustration. It has none of the loathsome connotations of the “denier” label, a label which is purposefully intended to draw an equivalence between those who disagree with AGW advocates and “Holocaust Denier” kooks who seek to cast doubt on one of the worst genocides every perpetrated.
I became skeptical because of the use of the term “denier” against anyone who had questions about the anthropogenic warming claim. Another reason is the lack of real alternatives. Thorium is something we could be using right now, Geothermal energy i.e tapping the volcanoes in Iceland and reducing our energy worries to zero. What do we get instead? Biofuels, solar panel and wind farms. None of which threaten oil industry.
@TonyB
Gareth
I think you are rewriting history from your own (substantially) left of centre position. I don’t recognise the person you describe. This country was a basket case when she took over. It was very much better (but by no means perfect) by the time she left.
TonyB
You are probably correct that I write from a centre left perspective (not substantially left any more than you are substantially right) But don’t we all write from personal perspective and subjective interpretation? My main gripe with Climate science is that many of the mainstream scientists who support the so called ‘consensus’ do not recognise this. They see everything in black and white, hence the silly 97% issue. All perspective is subjective as we see with Thatcher. Even the most quantitive research can be interpreted in many ways, and far too many people start their studies with a hypothesis which they seek to prove. This site can be a bit like hard work, I’ve been accused of everything from being a catastrophist to an anti -semite. Annoying in the extreme but nowhere near as bad as say Skeptical science or the Guardian blogs which do not allow any dissent from the accepted norm. In such worlds there are no colour, just black or white and we digress in such places at our peril.
Phil M, you seem to assume that I am new to WUWT. I only started posting recently but have been reading the site for many years. You are quite right that there is often a full and frank exchange of views, which to my mind is healthy. Sometimes Anthony gets upset at someone, but it is his site. Perhaps he deletes posts, or illicitly edits them, or bans people who simply ask difficult questions; I wouldn’t know. But I’ve seen the screen shots from RC: it definitely goes on there. There are other websites I visit where the most appalling language and insults are used on all sides. WUWT is very civilised indeed. If you believe in your point of view you will always have to persevere, whatever the discussion forum.
If Anthony did act towards you as you say he did, personally I wouldn’t approve. Perhaps it depends what you wrote. However, you should note carefully that your comment has passed moderation and been posted.
Jai Mitchell:
“white males over the age of 35 with above average incomes”
– Mike Mann
– Al ‘Jazeera’ Gore
– weepy Bill McKibben
– Joe ‘rantin’ Romm
– Dana ‘drill-bit’ Nuttyjelly
– Jimbo ‘adjuster’ Hansen
– a warmist professor who lives down the road from me
Need I go on?
BTW All the skeptics I know love to join me in the pub. It’s where those weary of MSM BS like to reside.
Gareth
Nicely put. I stopped commenting at the Guardian as everything I wrote was deleted. Even links to the Met office backing up a (sceptical) point I made disappeared. Its a highly biased site which is why I like it when warmists come over here, else we all sing from the same song sheet and don’t learn anything to challenge our biases.
tonyb
Tony
Sorry to harp on this, but next time someone quotes to me about the 97% of scientists who agree with CAGW, I will ask them this:
If the petitionproject.org represents 3% of the scientists with 31,487 signers, where is the list of 1,018,080 scientists which would represent the 97% ?
Where is their petition project?
Thanks Art Robinson. I was first introduced to him on the Rachel Maddow interview:
I “fell in love with him” due to that interview.
I almost sent him money for his campaign after that interview, but still have never sent money to any campaign. I am cheap, and I live in Mexico.
As far as my testimonial about global warming, er climate change, er climate disruption, er extreme weather, just the constant name changing is enough to keep me a skeptic. I have been a skeptic since I can remember – never had an epiphany.
Was a point made?
In keeping with Johnathon abbott’s testimonial about familiarising onesself with all sides of the debate, here are some critical comments on the petition.
Bottom line is 0.3% of the science community signed the petition, the petition makers won’t release the data (the full qualifications/field of each signatory), it is likely only a small fraction have expertise in climare science (should statisticians give opinion on neurosurgery?).
There are more opinions than this, of course. It pays to be skeptical.
REPLY: Except that “skeptical science” isn’t. That’s the best you can do? Laughable. A rhetorical point: should anonymous cowards like you with no qualifications in climate have an opinion on climate science? -Anthony
@Peter Hannan –
If you want to see a convincing, frightening, enraging view of how the greenies want to keep the Third World poor, read Paul Drieesen’s Eco-Imperialism: Green Power, Black Deatyh
Henry Bauer wrote a book about the pernicious influence of expensive science, government funding, Big Academia, and national and international science bureaucracies in creating dogmas (consensuses): Dogmatism in Science and Medicine, at http://www.amazon.com/Dogmatism-Science-Medicine-Dominant-Monopolize/dp/0786463015/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370848052&sr=1-1&keywords=dogmatism+in+science+and+medicine
Janice Moore: I will speak to Dad but he’s on holiday at the moment and needs his rest.
He has just, finally, fully retired and it was probably a bit later than ideal.
Also, as you may have noticed, he is very stubborn. This led to long threads of ripostes to people he disagreed with on this very site. Ripostes that were usually (though not always) pertinent and technically correct and even very occasionally correctly formatted.
Yet, alas, my father’s lack of IT skills led to a serious faux pas with respect to our host and a ban from this site followed. Not a permanent ban (a week I think, but my knowledge is all second-hand) yet my father doesn’t want to come back. Stubborn ,you see.
Interestingly, he also feels it’s no longer worth it as cAGW is a dying creed that’s not worth kicking anymore.
CAGW may be a dying creed, but it has still left an indelible mark.
In Australia we have a Murray-Darling Basin plan based on corrupted science (that we are probably stuck with), and a carbon tax, shortly to become marketised and linked to the corrupted European trading scam (ETS).
Although this seems trivial, and as you know C is worth hardly anything per tonne right now; the CRITICAL thing is that the tax in its market guise will be beyond the reach of the ballot-box. It will simply be impossible in the future for people in this this “democratic” country to vote it away.
As a permanent feature of our tax system that people won’t be able to do anything about it will shovel truck-loads of money off-shore via, NGOs (non-government organisations) such as WWF etc. to distribute on their “pet” projects.
The scientific basis for CAGW from an Australian perspective, has been hijacked by WWF-linked climate activists in Australia’s science institutions, including the Bureau of Meteorology; CSIRO; the ClimateCommission and of course Universities (especially the University of NSW; University of Tasmania; ANU; and Macquarie University).
Our peak “science” institution CSIRO, has been described as an “employer of last resort”; and of having a “toxic work culture”, which says it all.
Australians in general; have been set-up by clever marketing, and I’d have to say, a very successful science/media strategy. It cannot possibly be claimed that research in Australia is being conducted for the public-good; or that it is independent (of causes); or that it is not heavily censored.
I understand the thrust of this thread is not about science per. se. but in reality science is the crux of the issue. More correctly, it is data-based research and analysis that holds the key to just about everything being discussed here (except of course UK politics and M. Thatcher).
What has been forgotten in that vein, was that in the 60’s to 80’s, much of the UK’s productive capacity was getting too expensive. Coal could be bought off-shore much cheaper than it could be mined using labour intensive methods in mines that were past their use-by date. For Britt’s to afford their own coal, it had to be heavily subsidised, more and more. There came the point when it simple had to be shut-down.
Recently I toured the UK and I saw evidence of this, in England and Wales. I was surprised at how much metaliferous mining had occurred in the past, but unsurprised at how long mining had been propped up; and how uneconomic it became as a result.
It is not all doom-and-gloom. The stuff is still in the ground, and the economics of getting it out could reverse in the future. Manufacturing could re-surge, but it won’t on the back of wind turbines that work only half of the time; solar panels that are fogged in for much of the day; and dreams about tidal electricity generation when again, for a lot of the daily tide-cycle there is little or no potential energy to be used.
My plea is for people to get hold of data and check things out for themselves!
Cheers,
Bill Johnston
I’d been thinking about doing a longer comment about my personal “path” including what I perceived as the motives of the perpetrators but I won’t.
The short version, a couple of decades or more ago the Environmental Defense Fund and Citizens’ Action were using their usual tactics trying to scare people about Atrazine in drinking water. SEPP and Junkscience took an interest. In checking them out I noticed articles about “Global Warming”. I remember one about satellite measurements not agreeing with it. I remember balloon measurements not agreeing with it and their temperature readings agreeing with the altimeter reading of those balloons. (I also remember one about some guy that was running around taking pictures of surface weather stations.8-)
The MSM was touting it more and more. Somewhere in there “An Inconvenient Truth” came out the Hero of the Holy Ozone was once again hoisted on his own petar … pedestal.
So everybody seemed to be pushing the globe warming and applauding those who said it was.
Now, my daily routine for years had been to turn on The Weather Channel in the morning. When “your weather on the 8’s” was done at 5:30, it was time to leave for work. (Since “Wake Up With Al” came on, I mute it.) They would usually show the record high and low for that day. I began to notice that the years for the record highs weren’t recent.
In 2007 I copy/pasted the records for my little spot on the globe from the NWS into Excel. After getting the dates, temps and years into separate columns, I sorted them by year. Most of the record highs for my area were set before 1950. (The most recent, in 2007, had been set in 2001.) Most of the record lows were set after 1950. No sign of a Hockey Stick. It would seem those who had the ear of the MSM were mistaken. I did it again a couple of times in later years and noticed that old records were being changed. Not broken. Changed. (For example, the record for July 31 on the 2007 list was 96*F set in 1954. On the 2012 list it was 100*F set in 1999.)
This isn’t about an honest scientist getting it wrong. This is about powerful people manipulating the weather (on paper anyway) to gain more power.
barry says:
“Bottom line is 0.3% of the science community signed the petition…”
That is not the bottom line. The bottom line is that the number of OISM co-signers far exceeds any numbers the alarmist crowd has been able to come up with. Therefore, the alarmists’ “consensus” canard is falsified. The true consensus, as stated by more than 31,000 OISM co-signers [including more than 9,000 with PhD’s in the hard sciences], is that CO2 is harmless, and beneficial to the biosphere.
barry has no science or engineering credentials [if I am wrong, post them here… verifiably.] barry is not a professional; he is simply an uneducated layman arguing his climate false alarm. But even so, barry must surely be aware that every OISM co-signer is listed publicly; and has been cross-checked, and has earned one or more degrees in the hard sciences.
Those co-signers understand the scientific argument, and they were willing to put their names to the statement that CO2 is harmless and beneficial. What more can barry say? He and every other climate alarmist together cannot produce more than a very small fraction of the OISM numbers — and most of those alarmist names are riding the climate grant gravy train. Who should we believe? Scientists and engineers with nothing to gain [and maybe much to lose] by signing their names to the OISM statement? Or should we believe a much smaller clique with a vested, self-serving interest in keeping the climate scare alive? Because they cannot both be right.
“Harmless”. “Beneficial”. Think about it, barry. Maybe the scales will fall from your eyes.
Reblogged this on gottadobetterthanthis and commented:
At this point I’m adding nothing to the discussion at Watts Up With That, and the half-dozen page views I might get with this certainly have little effect, but this is a noteworthy point from a concerned individual. Someone who obviously thinks. Most of the comments are thoughtful too. So, clicking over to Anthony’s is worth your time to read. It is an example of how reason is supposed to work. He also notes well a couple of key drivers behind the CAGW movement.
Being educated in the 70s and even having a bachelor degree in Geology I am a bit ashamed to admit that I only started questioning the CAGW story in 2006 after having seen a ‘climatesceptic’ on tv. He was heavily outnumbered by learned CAGW believers who tried to make a fool out of him.
On the internet I discovered a number of critical climatescience sites with serious scientists (like Roy Spencer) exchanging well written critical opinions that seemed to make a lot of (common) sense.
I was completely surprised that there existed such a wealth of reasonable insights, backed up by credible data, that largely debunked the whole notion of CAGW. I was so excited that I decided to write an article on the subject (in Dutch) in the format of a testimonial to try and convince the public that the big problem that they (and I up to that moment) seemed to be perceiving did not exist in reality. The article was even published in a small critical agricultural monthly.
Since then i have been following developments closely, with the debate becoming more political (and scientifically absurd) by the day. In 2010 I published a second article on the broader subject of sustainability although this subject has nothing to do with my everyday professional life (and my views on the subject could even hurt my career).
All in all I recognize a lot in Abbott’s story. Sorry I cannot offer a testimonial going from sceptic to believer, which would not doubt be more interesting (and no doubt a lot rarer).
Late to the party. Why am I a skeptic?
When I first learned about the dangers associated with CO2, I was curious. I bought “An Idiots Guide to Global Warming”. Not much meat. So started looking around the internet. Came across Real Climate first. Read that for awhile and got tired of Gavin ranting when the arguments were sound. This led me to ClimateAudit.org. Much of what was discussed was over my head. I wasn’t prepared for the depth of the statistical analysis. But the ClimateAudit article that turned me around covered a study on UHI by Tom Peterson. McIntyre’s analysis of the article showed me that Tom Peterson and the rest of the alarmists were basing their views on an artificial temperature increase. Since then, my views have only been solidified as more and more data shows that CAGW is false.
I started commenting here in the spring of 2009, before Climategate, when the volume of comments and the number of threads was much lower. At that time the moderators apparently had time to edit comments on a line by line basis (as a result, comments sometimes piled up for up to half an hour or more before being posted), and were (IIRC) much stricter about enforcing house rules. This site was never as strict as CA, where attribution of motives is not allowed (no “fraud”-word allowed, for instance), but it lacked the problems you described.
It’s pained me to see warmists so often immediately called trolls or addressed insultingly. That stuff should be moderated out (those portions snipped), and posters reminded to be more polite. Only retaliatory insults should be allowed–plus expressions of exasperation at persistent and deliberate obtuseness.
The problem is that this site isn’t funded by Big Oil, and hence its unpaid volunteer moderators can’t be expected to do all the work that’s needed. (Heck, the strain is now so great that prior moderation has had to be abandoned.) This is just one more indication that our side isn’t well funded and well organized.
(For more indications, see my thread, “Notes from Skull Island” at http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/16/notes-from-skull-island-why-skeptics-arent-well-funded-and-well-organized/ )
dbstealey
you said, “Even climate alarmists like Richard Alley show that the MWP, the RWP, the Minoan Optimum, etc., were significantly warmer than now. ”
and I say, the most comprehensive analysis to date shows
http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/graphs/holocene/marcott/marcott-fig-s12.gif
and
I know you think it is a grand conspiracy but the reality is, no, it is the reality. These temperatures have not been seen before, except, maybe the holocene optimum, which we are basically tied.
——
You also say,
“Climategate email dump has seen the documented evidence of fraud and malfeasance, from threatening journals for publishing scientific papers that disputed the runaway global warming narrative, to the outright fabrication of published papers for the purpose of propagandizing climate science, to actually getting scientists fired for disputing their ideology.”
and I say,
1. fraud or malfeasance:
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/global_warming_contrarians/debunking-misinformation-stolen-emails-climategate.html
Six official investigations have cleared scientists of accusations of wrongdoing.
A three-part Penn State University cleared scientist Michael Mann of wrongdoing.
Two reviews commissioned by the University of East Anglia”supported the honesty and integrity of scientists in the Climatic Research Unit.”
A UK Parliament report concluded that the emails have no bearing on our understanding of climate science and that claims against UEA scientists are misleading.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Inspector General’s office concluded there was no evidence of wrongdoing on behalf of their employees.
The National Science Foundation’s Inspector General’s office concluded, “Lacking any direct evidence of research misconduct…we are closing this investigation with no further action.”
Other agencies and media outlets have investigated the substance of the emails.
The Environmental Protection Agency, in response to petitions against action to curb heat-trapping emissions, dismissed attacks on the science rooted in the stolen emails.
Factcheck.org debunked claims that the emails put the conclusions of climate science into question.
Politifact.com rated claims that the emails falsify climate science as “false.”
An Associated Press review of the emails found that they “don’t undercut the vast body of evidence showing the world is warming because of man-made greenhouse gas emissions.”
2. “threatening journals”, “firing scientists”
again, this is a falsehood, has been reviewed, the discussion is normal amongst scientists who believe that the quality control process of peer reveiw at a specific journal is no longer sound. Simply stating that people shouldn’t submit there is a correct path when this happens at a journal (for fear of losing professional reputation).
The paper in question, after publishing was so inherently flawed that,
In the case of Soon & Baliunas 2003, it was not only CRU which reacted strongly to the paper. The Review recounts:
A number of review editors resigned as a reaction against the publication of what they regarded as a seriously flawed paper. The journal’s publisher admitted that the journal should have requested appropriate revisions of the manuscript prior to publication. The Editor in Chief resigned on being refused permission by the publisher to write an editorial about what he regarded as a failure of the peer review system. [8.3]”
———-
you also say,
“Note the ad hominem attack”
and I say,
no, it isn’t an attack at all, it is an observation, there is nothing wrong with being a white male over the age of 35 with a conservative political slant and a higher than average income. . .
it is simply the overwhelming demographic of a climate “skeptic”.
“cool white dudes”
Cool dudes: The denial of climate change among conservative white males in
the United States
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/students/envs_5000/mccright_2011.pdf
“We examine whether conservative white males are more likely than are other adults in the U.S. general public to endorse climate change denial.”
———-
you also say,
natural cycles, countered by antarctic sea ice. . .
Winter antarctic sea ice actually works to increase warming by insulating the ocean from losing heat energy to space. The amount of summer ice increase is paltry and well within normal ranges of variance.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png
compare this with arctic ice and you will find that the increase in land mass in the northern hemisphere provides a REAL difference and the fact that the summer melt is happening (radically changing albedo) causes a signficant effect.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.arctic.png
-it isn’t not talking about it because I am trying to hide it, it is not talking about it because it is inconsequential and your attempt to make it significant shows just how you are simply grasping at straw after straw after straw (man?).
for you arguments.
—–
he also says,
“CO2 sensitivity is proven to not be significant”
and I say,
not says Richard Lindzen who states that a CO2 related feedback of slightly greater than 1C is expected.
or Roy Spencer who also agrees that CO2 causes warming.
what you are saying is not just a complete lack of understanding it is, as with EVERYTHING else you have said so far,
a complete lie.
you are simply gish galloping. . .stating so many lies, falsehoods, distortions, trying to win an argument by lying. This is simply childish.
this is all that you have????!!!!???
yes, it took me about 2 years to learn what I know, I took it all from peer reviewed articles and books. not from the wholly debunked, fringe science, politically skewed and inbred information channels your information (apparently) comes from.
———————-
You also say,
“he doesn’t define, “our” emission”
I meant IPCC emission scenarios as my reference of A1Fl should have tipped you off
————
you also say,
“warming has progressed at the same rate since the LIA”
and I say,
enough with the lies man, you are totally off your wall.
keepy lying to yourself and your audience, it won’t be too much longer now.
this image has been completely vindicated.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/articles/am/v3/n2/2000-year-comparison.jpg
you can keep complaining about it but Dr. Michael Mann is taking the National Review and the CEI to court. He isn’t afraid to open the books but you and your financial backers sure are. . .because when it comes out that you intentionally swayed debated of the science for political gain, of a subject of the most inherent importance, just like the tobacco lobby did in the 90′s leading the deaths of thousands of innocent children, when it comes out that you did this intentionally and without regard to human life, it will be all over.
M Courtney,
What a shame. I miss your father’s excellent comments greatly. Ask him to return soon.
Excellent post that reveals both the strengths and weaknesses of an engineering education. Engineering isn’t science but both builds on it, and contributes hugely to it – e.g. aviation, CERN…
I agree with Theo. Your father’s input was something I always read with pleasure.
The reasoning I have seen here for supporting the fringe science of no global warming or no anthropogenic global warming is absolutely hilarious.
I do recall that only about 8 years ago it was “no global warming” and there is still a remnant of people who believe that the temperature data record is flawed somehow, that satellite measurements are the only way to go and that only specific satellite measurements from “trusted” sources can be used.
I see how people here like to claim the high road using the 31,000 “scientist” signatures of the OISM, when this has been so thoroughly debunked, only the most abhorrent liars would claim this and still know that this petition was signed by such astute scientists as Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse. this is clearly shown in the short documentary posted here:
I have seen how people here will use the temperature history of Greenland as though it is a global temperature, crow about the warming of the medieval and Minoan warming periods as though they are not currently explained under current warming theories. They are! and to say that there isn’t warming that is significant, and if there is, then it has paused for 10, 15, or whatever years, as though that somehow proves them to be correct.
I see how people here quote the GISP2 temperature record which actually ended 95 years before 1950 in the schedule (that is 1855) and the temperatures at the dome peak of Greenland has warmed above that of the Minoan warm period. And we have had plenty of northern hemisphere stratovolcanoes that have caused periods of cooling during this time (unlike the medieval and Minoan warming period)
In fact, all I see here are lies based on lies based on even more lies. fanciful claims like, “CO2 doesn’t cause warming” or “The saturation curve of CO2 in the atmosphere shows that further increases cause no warming” or “increased moisture vapor in the atmosphere causes no warming” or “the greenhouse effect is a myth” or even, “all AGW climate change science is a global conspiracy to push socialism over the earth and destroy America and American-style capitalism”
all of these things being complete lies, falsehoods, based on more falsehoods.
as only a propagandist outlet would act, as though the authors here KNOW that AGW is real, that the empirical evidence is conclusive, and they just don’t care.
it won’t be long now, just try to keep an open mind to the SCIENCE that is going on.
There is only one more thing you need to understand, The Michael Mann’s hockey stick curve has now been thoroughly supported by hundreds of independent records.
The proof of this work as vindicated and the continuing scandalous effort to discredit his work shows only how desperate the oil-backed deniers are.
For those with open eyes to see and open ears to hear, from data sources as diverse as thousands of different:
seabed and lake bed core data,
ice core data,
stream bed sediment records,
coral ring data,
stalactites and stalagmite core data,
pollen data
as well as additional tree ring data
-data that has been taken from all over the world.
The Michael Mann global temperature curve has been COMPLETELY vindicated. If you have ANY shred of honest introspection, then you would HAVE to concede that this anti-global warming cult is a teetering house of cards, akin to the anti-smoking regulation campaign of the 1990s and more closely associated with the religious assertions of creation-sciences than of actual science.
http://www.atmos.albany.edu/deas/atmclasses/atm305/figspm-10b.jpg
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/wp-images/Patagonia_LIA_fig2.JPG
http://www.scilogs.de/wblogs/gallery/16/Marcott.png
I accepted AGW until I read that the science was settled. From that moment I knew something was wrong, so I dug more. Found a gold mine of what’s wrong.