Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
The Washington Post reports:
During an April visit to the San Francisco home of billionaire and environmental activist Tom Steyer, who created a political action committee in March to target lawmakers supporting the Keystone pipeline, Obama noted that the issue of climate change “is near and dear” to Steyer and his wife, Kat Taylor.
“But — and I mentioned this to Tom and Kat and a few folks right before I came out here — the politics of this are tough,” Obama added, according to a White House transcript. “Because if you haven’t seen a raise in a decade; if your house is still $25,000, $30,000 underwater . . . you may be concerned about the temperature of the planet, but it’s probably not rising to your number one concern. And if people think, well, that’s shortsighted, that’s what happens when you’re struggling to get by.”
I loved Obama’s description of economic trouble, characterizing it as “if your house mortgage is underwater” … around my place, that’s what is affectionately known as a “First World Problem”. But it beautifully illustrates the close relationship between economic want and lack of concern for the environment, even among people with money.
In this post, I will discuss the link between CO2 alarmism and environmental destruction, and how the work of the big environmental non-governmental organizations (NGOs) like Greenpeace and WWF is actively harming the environment.
Let me start with the two most important facts in the discussion about the global environment. First, half the people on the planet live on less than $2 and change per day. That’s why I said having your house mortgage underwater is a “First World Problem”. People living on $2 per day don’t have house mortgages—most of them don’t own houses, or much of anything beyond a few rags of clothing.
Second, only developed countries have ever cleaned up their own environment. Only when a country’s inhabitants are adequately fed and clothed and sheltered from the storms can they afford to think about the environment. And far from cleaning up the environment as wealthy countries can afford to do, people in poor countries are very destructive to the environment. Folks in poor countries will burn every tree if they have to, and you would too if your kids were crying. They will eat every monkey and consume the chimpanzees as the final course, and you would too if your family were starving. They will bemoan the necessity, they don’t like doing it any more than you or I would … but they will do it. Here’s the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic:
Figure 1. Border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Guess which country contains eco-criminals that can afford to use fossil fuels, and which country contains nature-lovers who are dependent on natural renewable organic biomass for energy …
Now, given that poverty is the greatest threat to the global environment, the inescapable conclusion is that the only way the global environment stands a chance is if poor countries can develop economically.
And that is why the anti-development, pro-expensive energy stance of the large environmental NGOs is one of the great environmental tragedies of our times.
Here’s the chain of causality:
1. Climate alarmists, with the strong support of the major environmental NGOs like Greenpeace and WWF, declared war on CO2.
2. The method that they chose to fight CO2 was to discourage fossil fuel use by making energy more expensive, using a combination of taxation, legislation, international pressure, and expensive subsidies to achieve that end. Obama’s War on Coal, announced today, is just one of hundreds of examples of the wealthy NGOs and the rich governments working to increase the price of energy.
3. Since energy is development, expensive energy keeps poor countries in poverty. When the World Bank denies loans for coal fired plants in India, the poor suffer … but the environment suffers more. Until they can afford to use coal and gas, they’ll run the country on wood … I refer you back to Figure 1 for how well that works out.
4. Expensive energy slows a country’s economic development, and as President Obama pointed out, people worried about money don’t pay attention to the environment.
This ends up in a bizarre position—the actions of the major environmental NGOs are ensuring continued environmental destruction in the developing world.
I learned about the connection between poverty and environmental destruction in part through sad experience. I discussed my conversation with the indigent Costa Rican firewood seller, and how he was cutting his firewood in the National Forest, in my post on the parrotfish. Here’s the story of a longer and sadder interaction with poverty and the environment.
I live surrounded by forest now, as I did when I was a child. I draw strength from it. My stepdad was a logger, as was his father, and I’ve worked in the woods setting choker. I’ve seen good logging, bad logging, and downright criminal logging, and I’ve always been passionate about protecting the forest and about ethical logging practices. Here’s the view of the redwood forest from my deck earlier, still rainy today …
For a couple years in the late 1980s, I was the Country Director of the Solomon Islands program of a development organization, something along the lines of “Save the Children” but with a more general focus. Among the projects I ran was the “Walkabout Sawmill” program. It was a winner. Instead of giving money for disaster relief after a cyclone, we bought some portable sawmills made next door in Papua New Guinea. We trained some teams of guys to use the sawmills, and sent them around to the villages to mill the trees that had been blown over by the cyclone. The villagers got wood, our guys learned to use the sawmills. Then when the project was over, we sold the sawmills on credit to the teams of guys, so that they could use them to log their own native lands.
Why was I glad to assist them in logging the forest? Because I knew that it was far preferable to the only other option, which was the rapacious Asian logging companies coming in and clear-cutting huge swaths of land. Because of their poverty, the Solomons were selling their patrimony, their incredibly valuable tropical hardwoods, for pennies.
And how did their poverty lead to the loss of their forests? I can give you the answer.
When a country is poor, you can buy anything.
For several years in the late 1980s I lived on a coral atoll near a large volcanic island with the most euphonious name of “Vella Lavella”, in the Western Province of the Solomon Islands. At that time the Solomons had extensive tropical forests full of very valuable hardwood. Overseas logging companies were coming in, paying pennies to the villagers for their logs, paying off the customs inspectors, and shipping away barge after barge of the treasure and the patrimony of the islands, their tropical trees. So I was happy to be able to offer the people the alternative of harvesting and tending their own forest.
So at that time, a Malaysian company made a move to get the rights to log all of Vella Lavella island. Some people said no, but there were some that wanted it. There’s a kind of local island council, with about five “Big Men”, local leaders, who make the decisions. People were passionate about the logging issue, as you might imagine. There was a meeting of the island council, and the logging company made their presentation. The big men, to their credit, voted the logging down.
So the company pulled out their wallets, and bought them off right there on the spot. After the folks had left, they declared the Council back in session, and voted the logging rights to the company. The only problem was, the results of the first meeting had already been entered in the official record.
Of course, it’s the Solomons, and these were local guys untutored in the criminal arts. So they just took some whiteout, and whited out where they had said “No logging”, and wrote the revised vote right over the old one.
When I heard that, I was both amused and outraged. So some of us got the Public Solicitor to take on the case, he was enthusiastic back then, it was before his illness. He ended up catching the disease that a lot of white guys catch in the tropics, it comes in a bottle and makes you feel terrible, but this was before he got sick. So he argued the case brilliantly and got the decision thrown out of court, we all cheered him on and felt like we’d won.
When the court decision was announced, the logging company did the obvious thing—this time they cheated according to the rules. They paid the island councilors off, but this time they paid them before the council meeting, so there was no need to change the official record … I was mondo bummed, as were my local friends.
So that inexpensive purchase of the island councilors, I heard it was ten grand US$ per man, gave the logging company the right to negotiate a contract with the locals if they wanted to sign. One afternoon, some of the young Vella Lavella guys made the trip over to the island where I lived to ask if I would help them. I bought the beers, and we talked about the logging company. They said that they’d been agitating to convince the people to keep the company out and take care of their own forests. But the sentiment among the people was against them. They wanted the easy money, just sit back and let the company do the work.
So they asked me, would I look at the contract and tell them what it was that logging company wanted them to sign? I said sure, and they gave me a copy of the accursed document.
My friends, I’ve seen some sly, crafty ways to cheat and cozen someone with a pen and a piece of paper, but this one fair reeked of sulfur. Inside it, black was white and white black. Outrageous things were proposed as though it would be of benefit to the local folks.
And the logging regulations themselves in the contract were abysmal. A 100-metre setback from streams and watercourses is considered the minimum to protect the waterways from sedimentation. They proposed a 10-metre setback and claimed they were doing it out of concern for the environment. Nor was there any limit to the gradient which they could log. Usually, steep slopes are protected from logging because the erosion and landslides are so damaging … they had no protection for them at all.
Then there were the penalties for felling a tree outside the designated area … ten dollars US per tree. At that time the Solomons hardwood, when milled and dried, was worth about US$1,400 per cubic meter, and some of the trees had three or more cubic metres. That meant if the loggers spied a valuable tree that was not on the land they were allowed to log, they could fell it, pay the locals $10 for it, and sell it for five thousand dollars …
But we’re nowhere near done. Then there was the little matter of the price. This, the company said, was the best part of the deal. Elsewhere in the Solomons people were only getting three dollars a cubic metre, but this company, from the goodness of their hearts, was offering no less that $10 per cubic metre …
Then there were the roads. One huge benefit of a properly managed logging operation is that the local people end up with roads connecting the coastal villages with the interior lands.
Or it can be a huge curse, because if the roads are not properly designed and constructed, then they wash out in the tropical rains and the roadways erode into open cuts and the land takes years to recover.
Well, this document pointed all of that out. It talked about the various quality of roads, from the logging roads in the interior all the way up to paved roads along the coast. There were pages of road specifications, and lovely black-and-white pictures of asphalt highways running by tropical beaches, with only one small problem.
The document described the roads, and the places that they planned to use them, and how well made they would be … but nowhere in the whole document did they actually agree to build one single metre of road, paved or not. It was all just a smoke screen, they promised nothing.
So I went over the whole document and marked it up. Then I met up with the guys again, and we went over the whole thing, clause by clause. I’d re-written about two-thirds of the clauses, and I’d worked with my friend the Public Solicitor, and we’d put together a document that would be a good deal for the locals. The loggers would still make out, but like businessmen, not like highway robbers.
It was a long meeting, the guys had lots of questions, and we discussed each and every clause so they knew why I’d made the changes, and what the changes meant to them. After previous discussions with a couple of the guys, we’d also added a section setting up a trust for the majority of the money, so it wouldn’t all get spent on beer and outboards and be gone in six months. They were very much in favor of that, they’d seen money pissed away before.
Then they were ready to meet with the representatives of the loggers. They asked me if I’d come with them to the meeting. I said I couldn’t … another expatriate that I knew had gone mano-a-mano with the loggers a few months before, and within a week his work permit had been pulled, and he had to leave the country. I couldn’t risk losing my work permit, but I said I knew they could do it, they understood the issues.
They asked, could they meet in one of the guest houses that I rented out on the island? I said sure, no problem. They could have the meeting, and spend the night, go back to Vella the next day.
So the big night came for the meeting. Everyone showed up, loggers and islanders. I played the genial host, and left them to discuss the fate of the forest.
And in the morning? They all came out, shamefaced. I took one look, and my heart sank. I asked one of the old guys, one of the big men, what had happened. “Oh, the logger men were very nice! Can you imagine, they gave us a whole case of Black Label whiskey. They explained the contract, and it sounded wonderful, so we signed it” … oh, man, my blood was angrified mightily and I was in grave danger of waxing wroth … but I knew the old man, and he wasn’t a bad guy, just weak. So I curbed my tongue and shook my head, and I said that his sons might approve, but his grand children would wonder why he sold their birthright for pennies … then I went and talked to the young guys. They said they couldn’t stop it, once the big men were drunk they got combative and wouldn’t listen to anyone and they would have signed anything.
At first I was furious with the logging company, for being so sleazy and underhanded as to get them to sign drunk.
Then I thought, “Wait a minute …”. I thought, these Big Men are not American Indians who never tasted firewater in their life. They’ve all been drunk before, probably during that very same week. They know damned well what it does to your judgement. So then I was angry at them.
But then I thought no, they were just weak and overawed by lack of education and experience and money. The logging company sent in educated, smooth, charming guys wearing fine, expensive clothing and flashing lots of gold, big rings, chains. The big men were all dressed alike—shorts and t-shirts, brought in used or factory seconds in bundles from Australia. I realized that rather than get embarrassed by their predictable inability to negotiate with the loggers, they had taken the easy way out and gotten drunk.
Then I was angry at the young guys, for not standing up against the big men … that lasted about long enough to realize that under unbreakable tribal custom, they were expected and forced to defer to their elders, just as they would expect and demand that same deference when they got really, really old … like say fifty … life is short there.
It took a while, but I finally realized that unless and until the poor countries get to where people are adequately fed and clothed and housed, they would always be at the mercy of those kinds of greedy and amoral groups of men that have been with us forever …
And at the end of the day, I realized that I was on a fool’s errand. Oh, I’d fight the fight again, in a minute, but I’d lose again. It’s what happens when big money hits a poor country—the environment gets screwed, whether it’s logging, fishing, or mining. Until the country is wealthy enough to feed its citizens and to protect itself, its resources are always on sale to the lowest bidder … by which I mean the bidder with the lowest morals.
Now, I started this sad tale for a reason, to give substance to the damage that poverty does to the environment. When you can buy an island council for ten grand a man and there are literally millions of dollars at stake, that council will get bought no matter how hard I fight against it. Per capita GDP in the Solomons is about $600 annually, it’s classed as an “LDC”, a Least Developed Country … and in a country where ten thousand dollars is almost twenty years wages, you can buy many people for ten large …
That is one of the main reasons that I’ve spent a reasonable amount of time working overseas trying to alleviate global poverty. I do it for the people first, but I do it for the environment second.
And that is why I feel so personally betrayed by the current mindless push for expensive energy, a push led by the very organizations I’ve supported because back in the day, they actually used to be for the environment, not against it. Raising energy prices is the most regressive taxation I know of. The poorer you are, the harder you are hit by rising energy costs, and the more the poor suffer, the more the environment bears the brunt.
So this is where I came in, explaining about how people fighting against CO2 hurt the environment. Let me repeat the links in the chain:
1. Led in part by the environmental NGOs, many people and governments have declared war on CO2.
2. Their preferred method of warfare is to raise energy prices, through subsidies, bans, taxes, renewable energy requirements, pipeline refusals, and the like.
3. The rise in energy prices both impoverishes the poor and prevents the development of poor countries.
4. As Obama pointed out, even wealthy people with economic worries tend to ignore the environment … so stomping on the development possibilities of poor countries by raising energy prices is a guarantee of years of environmental damage and destruction.
I say that history will not look kindly on those people and organizations who are currently impoverishing the poor and damaging the environment in a futile fight against CO2, even if the perpetrators are wealthy and melanin-deficient and just running over with oodles of good intentions …
My regards to each of you, keep fighting the good fight. I’ve had a rat-free day, and so all’s well with the world,
w.
[UPDATE: For those who would like a bit more information on the connections between poverty and the environment that have lead to the photo shown in Figure 1, in 1960 Haiti and the Dominican Republic had the same per-capita real gross domestic product (GDP), They also had very similar physical conditions, as they share the same island.
By 2012, however, the per-capita GDP in the DR had about grown to about $9,600 per year (PPP) … and the per-capita GDP in Haiti had shrunk to about $1,200, less than it was in 1960. And as a result of the Haitians having almost no money at all, only an eighth of the GDP of the DR, both the people and the environment of Haiti have suffered badly.
As a benchmark for comparison, Norway has a per-capita GDP (PPP) of about $60,000, and the US, about $49,000. At the other end of the scale, the Solomon Islands, classed as one of the “Least Developed Countries” in the UN rankings, is also quite poor. It has a per-capita GDP about twice that of Haiti (and a quarter of that of the DR), at around $2,500. -w.]
UPDATE2: I wanted independent confirmation of the photo in Figure 1, because that could have been just one local patch given the small scale of the photo. So, I decided to check it out on Google Earth. While the entire border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic is not like Figure 1, there are large swaths in the northern part which are, for example:
– Anthony
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Gaia put humans here to reverse the death-spiral of geological sequestration of CO2. We should get on with it.
The poor of the planet get shafted coming and going.
On one hand, we have lunatic radical “environmentalists” doing all they can to prevent them from becoming prosperous. On the other, we have the most rapacious and ethics-free capitalists on the planet buying off the desperately poor for pennies compared to the profits.
I was interested to read about the Big Men in your post. Tribal societies are usually run by Big Men, which presumably works OK as long as they are living a traditional lifestyle. However, as almost nobody on the planet still lives like that in a pure sense, the Big Men and their clans have become instrumental in some of the worst atrocities inflicted on tribal societies – Papua New Guinea and some remote Aboriginal communities in Australia are prime examples. The deals they make may be small potatoes in the big picture, but since the proceeds are channeled to a minority (themselves and their kinfolk) the rewards are worth it from their point of view.
In Australia, the politically correct approach of allowing Aboriginal communities to run their own affairs and spend taxpayer or developer monies pretty much however they like has resulted in billions of dollars being siphoned off by the Big Men and their families since the policy was anointed in the 1970s. The sad thing is, since they didn’t have to work for it and there was always more money coming down the chute, most of it was wasted anyway – they should be rich, but mostly have affluent lifestyles and few or no assets. Those outside the charmed circle are still dirt-poor, of course.
johanna says:
June 26, 2013 at 7:31 pm
It’s true, and I still hate to see them get shafted by the environmentalists … that’s avoidable.
I can’t fault the Big Men in this one, it would have happened if they’d been elected to office. I went through several stages.
At first I was furious with the logging company, for being so sleazy and underhanded as to get them to sign drunk.
Then I thought, “Wait a minute …”. I thought, these Big Men are not American Indians who never tasted firewater in their life. They’ve all been drunk before, probably during that very same week. They know damned well what it does to your judgement. So then I was angry at them.
But then I thought no, they were just weak and overawed by lack of education and experience and money. The logging company sent in educated, smooth, charming guys wearing fine, expensive clothing and flashing lots of gold, big rings, chains. The big men were all dressed alike—shorts and t-shirts, brought in used or factory seconds in bundles from Australia. I realized that rather than get embarrassed by their predictable inability to negotiate with the loggers, they had taken the easy way out and gotten drunk.
Then I was angry at the young guys, for not standing up against the big men … that lasted about long enough to realize that under unbreakable tribal custom, they were expected and forced to defer to their elders, just as they would expect and demand that same deference when they got really old … say fifty … life is short there.
It took a while, but I finally realized that unless and until the poor countries get to where people are adequately fed and clothed and housed, they would always be at the mercy of those kinds of greedy and amoral groups of men that have been with us forever …
As to the question of graft, and government benefits not making it past the big men, in the Solomons that doesn’t happen because of “wantok biznes”. When I went to the Solomons I saw signs that said “No Wantok Biznes.” I had to have them explained to me, of course.
In the Solomons, people don’t self-identify as Solomon Islanders, or even as from Malaita Island or Guadalcanal Island. Instead, the basic unit is the tribe. In part this is because there’re about half a million people there … and about sixty mutually unitelligible languages are spoken there. Your people, the ones you identify with, are the people who speak your own language. Or in the local lingua franca, Solomon Islands Pijin, those who talk your language have “one talk”, one language … and in Pijin, that’s spelled “wantok”, one talk. So your wantoks are the people of your tribe.
And “wantok biznes”, or “one-talk business”, means the tradition that if you have something and one of your older wantoks needs it, you have to share. It’s deadly in a store, of course, because the clerks are constantly pressured to give the goods to their tribesmen … hence the signs, “No Wantok Biznes”.
However, the upside is that the wantok system is what passes for social security insurance. It is also the reason that not a lot of any of the ten thousand dollars likely stuck to the bigman’s hands … because he’s expected to provide for the tribe, that’s part of being a bigman. Sure, he keeps a majority of whatever boons he can provide, or more likely a plurality … because as soon as he has the money, he’ll have an unending parade of aunties and cousins and great-uncles laying claim to some small part of it … not much each one, but there’s a lot of them.
The same system exists in Fiji, curiously, despite the fact that they have a much more hereditary form of government. There, it’s called “kere-kere”, and like many things Fijian, it’s got complex rules about who can “kere-kere” an object from someone else. It’s more rigid, too. You can refuse to give your wantok something, although you’ll get social pressure. But with here-kere, if for example your mother’s brother wants something of yours, he just takes it, it’s his right, and everyone understand that.
And just as in the Solomon Islands, it’s the only form of social insurance until very recently, and for that, it works very well.
All the best, I may add some of this to the head post, thanks for sparking it,
w.
Thanks Willis. I do understand the ‘wantok’ thing, it operates similarly with Australian Aborigines, who speak many languages. In Aboriginal groups, family or clan is even more important than wantok, so there is a hierarchy of people who are owed degrees of loyalty.
The trouble is, in many of those communities it means that young men extort pension money from their elderly relatives (especially women) for gambling and drugs. The extortees don’t call the cops because it would shame the family and get the guys into strife with the police. So, thanks to the operation of family loyalties in a new environment (where there is free money coming in), the old folks get robbed. They don’t starve, because another family member slings them some food. But they may get their electricity or phone cut off, because nobody ever slings useful amounts of cash.
I don’t want to make too much of this – graft and nepotism are hardly confined to tribal societies. But it is just another turn of the screw, in that the ugly hybrid of tribal custom and free cash has resulted in people who were once objects of respect (older relatives) now being aggressively targeted for their money under the guise of family obligation.
Bravo, Willis on another illuminating story. One of the first comments I ever made here was to point out the link between poverty and environmental degradation – I think in response to another of your evocative stories posted several years ago. This connection cannot be emphasized strongly enough, and I agree wholeheartedly with your beautifully articulated thesis.
@Jerome Ravetz:
You wrote ‘Sometimes ignorance helps, as the (relatively rich) American farmers never wondered what would happen when they used up all the topsoil in the Midwest, until the Dust Bowl came along.’
I just wanted to point out that these farmers were encouraged in their practices by the pioneering American ecologist Frederick Clements, whose belief in ecological succession and the deterministic existence of a climax community, was shaped by climate and geography, led him to teach that no matter what was done to the mid-western land by human beings, nature could recover to its original state. He considerably changed his views after the Dustbowl. I believe Peter Bowler discusses this in his book The Norton History of the Environmental Sciences.
A very important part of wealth is diversity and alternatives.
Chad mentioned using enhanced canola as a bio fuel. Great possibly the only real use for it. He calculated how much land would be required to fulfill all USA fuel demand. Out popped the naysayers in force.
It happens all the time, Chad was making a point not a policy statement. If you just supplied 5% of demand, you reduce the need for fossil fuels by 5%, lower pressure on prices and also increase the total supply by 5%. You also add diversity into your fuel mix and reduce the opportunity to price fix.
The comments also led me to think, re fossil fuels, new technology allows both gas to be converted to viable liquid fuels and the opposite, heavy oils to be converted to light vehicle fuels.
Cannot the same technology be used to convert heavy biofuels into lighter fuels?
I feel that by swiping at max/min claims we really miss the point. Palm Oil is not a food but a cooking oil and feedstock, like fossil oil, of many products. It is also one of the few crops suitable for global markets that grow in the tropics. Yes Bananas, mangoes, etc but supply meets demand there.
Dont forget, I am choking on the Haze, so I do have an anti axe to grind but try to remain objective.
Green policy kills jobs, livelihoods and Denys low cost energy to the poorest. It is also fickle, claiming that land clearance for oil palm is evil but land clearance for firewood is goods gift to humanity. No watermelon will answer that question for me. Amazing.
A lot of land is very poor quality, unable to support food or commercial crops but as Chad says, this land is ideal for Canola, and Palm Oil and several other fuel crops.
A sensible approach is to use the poor unproductive or set aside land for such crops.
Sadly it seems sensible approaches are not possible.
My National Guard unit supported Operation New Horizons in Haiti in 2005. I traveled to Haiti three times, and managed to spend a fair amount of time seeing it from the back of a Blackhawk helicopter. It is simply indescribable to see the border with the Dominican Republic. The picture is accurate, but the actual scale, and what it says about life in Haiti is so vast.
We left Port Au Prince via landing craft, making a mile run out to the US Naval ships at anchor. The garbage in the huge bay is mind boggling. If you were to take a 30 gallon garbage can and toss the garbage from it across the floor you would have about the same density of garbage as covers this bay…but look beneath the water’s surface and you see tons of garbage suspended…and I’m to feel guilty for my carbon footprint?
Willis, BTW, I approached this trip with a beginner’s mind. A great way to travel through life.
Willis, here is an earlier article from Pointman. He more or less says what you have said time and again. [my bolding]
Comfortable environmentalists in the West just don’t get it. Shoe on other foot is absolutely essential to understanding the destruction of the environment in developing countries. Go to England and you will see the green rolling fields of farmland stretching out into the horizon. Much of what you see today used to be forested.
It’s morning and my wife is getting ready to start up the preparation for lunch. We use charcoal. If we had coal it might save some trees but what the heck. If we didn’t have charcoal I would buy firewood. If we didn’t have firewood on sale I would use LPG bottled gas. If I didn’t have gas I would drive 30km to my empty lot of land and chop down one of my trees and transport it home for firewood. If I didn’t have these trees I would pay someone to ‘find’ wood for me. If this wasn’t available I will burn anything that burns to cook my food. Solar cookers have a tendency for inefficiency during the overcast days of the rainy season.
There you have an example of what is going on and I’m relatively well off compare to most local people surviving on less than $2 a day, I get by on $40 per day. So what is the family man on $2 per day expected to do? He can’t afford charcoal or LPG bottled gas. The use of fossil fuels saves the environment and adds much needed co2 fertilisation to the air.
Willis Eschenbach says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Might I respectfully suggest that judging the content of a paper by its title is something we ought to leave to Cook et al?
Actually my quarrel wasn’t with you anyway. I entirely agreed with your post.
(Apologies for taking so long to respond, it’s morning in the UK.)
Grey Lensman says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:48 pm
Actually, I calculated the land required to fulfill all US oil demand. It was about 2 billion acres.
Oh, man, another true believer. It all sounds good … but it doesn’t make sense, or cents.
To provide even 5% of US fuel demand, we’d need to plant canola on about a hundred million acres of good arable land.
Total land under cultivation in the US is about 500 million acres. And while you can grow canola on “marginal” land as you guys say, what happens is that you get marginal yields.
So it would be a huge endeavor to just plant that much land, 20% more than we’re currently farming. But that’s not the real deal-killer. Here’s the real problem.
It’s not profitable.
Around here, they grow grapes on fairly marginal land, grapes don’t seem to mind. At the end of the year, after all expenses, the farmers can make a profit of up to $40,000 per acre on the crop in a good year, sold just as it comes off the vine, no post-processing at all.
Now, consider canola on fairly marginal land. You might get 100 gallons of oil per acre instead of the 130 gallons you’d get on good land. Now to get that 100 gallons of oil, you’ve got to not only disk and harrow and plant and fertilize and weed and harvest the canola seed. In addition, you’ve got to run the seed through a screw expeller to get out the oil, which of course uses energy. And then it has to be clarified and filtered and treated to be a usable fuel.
And at the end of the year, from your acre you have 100 gallons of biodiesel worth maybe $350 retail, less wholesale, whoopee … and that’s your GROSS, not your net. The grape growers NET $40k per acre per year after expenses … but $350 worth of canola oil will hardly pay the costs of production.
Finally, food grade canola oil today is selling for $4.96 per gallon in one tonne lots … so if I went to all the trouble to make canola oil, why would I sell it as diesel for $3.50 per gallon, when I can get fifty percent more per gallon for it as food?
So please, my friend. Before you start complaining about “nay-sayers”, run the dang numbers. Anyone can talk pie-in-the-sky, but the numbers don’t lie unless you waterboard them. And if the numbers say nay, who am I to disagree?
Because if we could run cars economically on canola oil today … with all the pressure for fuels, don’t you think we’d be doing it?
w.
From Willis Eschenbach on June 26, 2013 at 11:55 am:
Amazingly Wikipedia does (currently) have a well-balanced entry about Biblical slavery. It could be rather “civilized” compared to what is considered historical slavery, which is still alive and well in Africa and elsewhere although its existence is generally ignored by polite activists too busy fighting carbon demons.
It could be like indentured servitude, people would sell themselves as slaves for a few years to pay off a debt. Or an apprenticeship, to learn a trade. Among fellow Israelites in the OT, expanded to “fellow brothers in Christ” in NT, the treatment was decent for the time.
Note the “quirk” of Joseph, hero among the Hebrews, revered for getting his people through the “seven years” of famine by getting them moved down to Egypt and eventually all were enslaved, but didn’t starve. With Egyptian double-dealing etc they were there for centuries until Moses got them out. Clearly they were expecting better treatment than oppressive “better off dead” slavery.
Thus when Paul sent back a slave to his master, it can be reasonably inferred the guy, who was not mistreated, was likely welching out on a debt.
And as they were all “brothers in Christ”, slaves should give their masters the same full respect due all other fellow siblings in Christ.
I ain’t no biblical scholar, only read the relative OT parts a few years back. The previous is my take on the issue. All are equal before Christ, same respect for all, etc. YMMV.
arthurpeacock says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:23 am
Not when the title reveals the clear prejudices of the authors … maybe you have time to mess with that kind of thing. I don’t. For example, if the title of a paper is “Why Deniers Can’t Face The Scientific Truth”, I don’t waste my time reading the abstract. Not enough hours in the day. I have to constantly triage the incoming information.
Thank you sir, handsomely said.
w.
kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:38 am
I am totally unclear what your point is here. Is it that Paul was reasonable for his time? Or that Biblical slavery was kinda OK compared to worse things?
Before the civil war, that verse was used to justify the worst imaginable abuses against powerless people … but I’m not saying that was Paul’s fault. That was the fault of the folks who would use any prop or support for their belief that they were entitled to own other humans.
Finally, if Paul had spoken out against slavery he’d have been laughed out of Dodge. It was part and parcel of the social fabric of the time. Speaking against slavery in the year dot would have been like speaking out against car ownership today. Nobody would understand it.
Thanks for your comments in any case,
w.
Small nit pick Willis, I would have added (in bold) “educated”.
Willis Eschenbach says:
June 27, 2013 at 2:43 am
Thank you for your impressively prompt response! I appreciate the fact that you might well have read the document in question, if you hadn’t been put off by its title. Obviously one can’t possibly read everything.
I hope someone will read it though, as it’s very informative.
The Energy-Impoverished 99% Have Now Been Saved!
Student Innovators Turn Garbage Into Cooking Fuel
Having eaten an entire banana once in school, including the peel, I could see using the peel as food.
Pine needles, as in evergreen trees, softwoods, pine tar, creosote buildup and fires in chimneys? What non-COx emissions were being given off?
Because they wouldn’t need starch for food, a drying agent, glue, or a hundred other things that seem more important.
Oh, see the linked “5 surprising things” piece. Summary: We greedy bastards need to give the UN many times more money so the UN can achieve the UN’s Green Clean energy goals using renewables, which are to supply all of the non-1%energy-impoverished with UN-approved Green Clean energy, which is hampered by the ungrateful wretches breeding too fast, and countries (as governments own all resources) who raise hard money by selling their energy to other countries without first giving it away to all their residents. Shocking, I know.
When I first read that two people had been arrested I thought bullshit. I smelt a rat somewhere and suspected bigger men were involved. I didn’t bother investigating further.
A few years ago I flew from Sint Maarten to Jamaica and the flight went right along the S. coast of Hispaniola. The border between the DR and Haiti from N. to S. was just as you see in the photographs above. The Captain even commented on it to the passengers.
From Willis Eschenbach on June 27, 2013 at 2:54 am:
Retracing the meandering creek:
Line about “respecting masters” used to justify “Southern-style” slavery.
Which I’ve seen used before to trash Bible/Christianity/”organized religion” as endorsing cruelty.
Except it wasn’t cruel, by prevailing standards, per Moses the treatment was very “progressive”.
So if someone wishes to take that line as endorsing slavery, it should be noted it is not the “cruel” sort of slavery.
When people talk of slavery, they tend to think of scenes from Roots, slaves shackled, whipped bloody, crippled so they couldn’t run away. But per Moses, if you strike your slave then you may have just given them freedom. Such abuse wasn’t condoned.
So as you said “This was the exact Biblical text that was used for years in the US South to justify the institution of slavery …”, you should know it’s not the same slavery.
Not much of a point if referring to the monolithic all-encompassing “institution of slavery”, all of it is equally bad, always. But I dislike the wholesale anti-religion trashing based on such lines, which I’m not saying you did, you cannot control all the interpretations of your words, thus I find the distinction worth noting.
If you try to explain to people the difference between Biblical slavery and the the life of the Chinese factory workers who made their clothes they buy from Walmart to high-end boutiques, is the Chinese don’t have multi-year fixed contracts and the Israelite slaves were treated better, they don’t understand it much either. Slavery is bad, those Chinese are willing employees, right?
Nice analysis Willis and on the whole I agree. The point I made was 5% where practical. Provides diversity and more secure total energy supply. The low returns still provide employment for the poor and income. The inputs in terms of labour are not that great.
Its a problem the Palm Oil estates here have. The value as cooking oil/food additive is higher than fuel value. But the demand from Europe to meet their mandates means despite that land must be cleared and planted..
It all boils down to cost of production and in certain local cases, higher costs can be adsorbed by higher social values.
Just like wind, Oil in the ground is free, the cost being extraction. Same with wind, land prices for purchase or rent will rise according to demand.
But the essay is about wealth and environment thus my argument stands. Using some biofuels adds to the wealth mix, for the poor. Similarly Geothermal is a massive resource here but struggles to get off the ground. It could make a huge difference to poor subsistence farmers and land owners.
Nice one, thank you. I’m off to study the Solomons on google earth.
Well, to be honest the best way to save the Solomon’s forests would be to out-bid the lumber companies.
Jared Diamond had a discussion about the Haiti-Dominican republic difference in “Collapse”, and a shorter version here:
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?storyid=4776
There are lots of differences: Haiti gets less rain, has worse soils and much higher population density. Many of the trees in Haiti were cut down by the French while it was a colony etc.The Dominican republic also used draconian laws to protect its environment, which is hardly something advocated on this blog.
The argument that the border show that poverty leads to environmental destruction is fundamentally flawed. It might be slightly better, although still an oversimplification, to say that environmental destruction led to poverty.
From Thomas on June 27, 2013 at 8:35 am:
Because as is well known in biology, poor soils and less rain in an area leads to naturally occurring razor-sharp demarcation lines at political boundaries.
From the FAO, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5647e/y5647e05.htm
“Climate Change and the forestry sector”
With the “carbon credit” market going away, doesn’t look like that’ll help much. See that page, other countries did much more.
“Law and Sustainable Development since Rio – Legal Trends in Agriculture and Natural Resource Management”, Rome 2002 (some sort of meeting, this is official write-up)
From “10. Forestry”, http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/y3872e/y3872e0b.htm
Much talk about worldwide deforestation, binding UN agreements to combat desertification, etc (bold added):
Then comes many paragraphs of Protection Measures, Licensing Requirements, etc… And the Dominican Republic is not mentioned in any of them.
Searching specifically for that 1999 law, Google found a WWF page about the forests of Hispaniola, the island the countries share. Since the youngest reference is from 2000, it looks like another abandoned/forgotten web page of warnings, as such scaremongering only gets updated when upgraded, not when downgraded.
http://worldwildlife.org/ecoregions/nt0127
So basically your reported use of “…draconian laws to protect its environment, which is hardly something advocated on this blog”, amounts to National Parks, and something whipped up to join in on the Kyoto “carbon credit” gravy train.
You said: “The argument that the border show that poverty leads to environmental destruction is fundamentally flawed.”
But since the repeated example worldwide is that hungry people with family and self to feed don’t care about National Parks and will willingly poach wildlife and trees to take care of their own first, if the people of the Dominican Republic are respecting the National Parks and the forestry laws, then they are prosperous enough to afford to respect them.