
Theories that can be easily tested should have a high degree of consensus among researchers. Those involving chaotic and less testable questions – climate change or economic growth, physiology or financial markets – ought to have a greater level of scientific disagreement. Yet this is hardly the case for climate science. In the Paradox of Consensus, we illustrate that the greater the level of consensus for certain classes of hypotheses (those that are difficult to test) the less truth we should assign to them.
Guest Essay By D. RYAN BRUMBERG and MATTHEW BRUMBERG
The moon is not made of cheese, the earth is not flat, and lightning may strike the same place twice. We believe these claims to be true, yet it is unlikely that most readers have personally confirmed each of them. Because it would be nigh impossible for anyone to verify all they take as true, most individuals arrive at their worldview by following the beliefs of others (often “experts”). While there can be good reason to accept an idea based on its popularity, this consensus heuristic must be used with care. There must be a sufficient number of others who did arrive (and continue to arrive) at the same conclusion through independent verification and testing. When this condition is not met, the results can be catastrophic (recall the Challenger disaster). Instead of independent observers arriving at the same conclusion, we risk an information cascade. This failing goes by many names—argumentum ad populum, groupthink, the “bandwagon effect”—but its function is the same: increasing numbers of people will buy into an idea simply because many others already believe it.
Consensus, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. The more easily testable and verifiable a theory, the less debate we would expect. There is little disagreement, for example, about the sum of one plus one or the average distance of the earth from the sun. But as a question becomes more complex and less testable, we would expect an increasing level of disagreement and a lessening of the consensus—think: the existence of god, the best band since the Beatles, or the grand unified theory of physics. On such topics, independent minds can—and should—differ.
We can use a simple formula to express how an idea’s popularity correlates with its verifiability. Let us introduce the K/C ratio—the ratio of “knowability,” a broad term loosely encapsulating how possible it is to reduce uncertainty about an idea’s correctness, to “consensus,” a measure of the idea’s popularity and general acceptance. Topics that are easily knowable (K ~ 1) should have a high degree of consensus (C ~ 1), whereas those that are impossible to verify (K ~ 0) should have a low degree of consensus (C ~ 0). When the ratio deviates too far from the perfect ratio of 1, either from too much consensus or too little, there is a mispricing of knowledge. Indeed, in cases of extreme deviations from the perfect ratio, additional support for a concept with such a lopsided K/C ratio increasingly subtracts from its potential veracity. This occurs because ideas exist not simply at a single temporal point, but rather evolve over the sweep of time. At the upper reaches of consensus, there is less updating of views to account for new information—so much so that supporters of the status quo tend to suppress new facts and hypothesis. Government agencies deny funding to ‘sham’ scientists, tenure boards dissuade young researchers from pursuing ‘the wrong’ track, and the establishment quashes heretical ideas.
Consider the belief that the sun, moon, and stars circle the earth—a reasonable initial proposition. Yet, as additional facts became available (Copernicus, Brahe, Galileo), the dogmatic believers of the consensus condemned these observations as heresy. A world with a less skewed K/C ratio (lower level of consensus given low knowability) would have advanced to the heliocentric model sooner. Given that we know not the evolutionary stage for any current theory, we arrive thus at the unexpected conclusion that when knowability is low, as the level of consensus increases (without a commensurate increase in knowability), there should be a decrease in the probability assigned to the truth of the matter. While not always clear why the K/C ratio can become highly skewed, one interpretation is that more than just the search for knowledge is at play.
To see how this works in practice, we turn to the evergreen topic of climate change. Notwithstanding the underlying ecological threat of climate change itself, the debate about how to confront human-caused global warming has spawned unprecedented financial, political, and social risks of its own. Entire industries face extinction as the world’s governments seek to impose trillions of dollars of taxes on carbon emissions. The New York Times’s Thomas Friedman approvingly writes that Australian politicians—not to mention public figures through the world—now risk “political suicide” if they deny climate change. But if carbon dioxide turns out not to be the boogey-man that climate scientists have made it out to be, tens of trillions will be wasted in unneeded remediation. Much of the world—billions of humans—will endure a severely diminished quality of life with nothing to show for it. The growth trajectory of the world in the twenty-first century may well depend more on the “truth” of climate change ex ante than ex post.
With climate change, as in many areas of scientific complexity, we can (and do) use models to understand the world. But models have their problems. This is particularly true when dealing with complex, non-linear systems with a multitude of recursive feedback loops, in which small variations produce massive shifts in the long-term outcome. Pioneered by the mathematicians Edward Lorenz and Benoit Mandelbrot, chaos theory helped explain the intractability of certain problems. Readers of pop science will be familiar with the term the “butterfly effect,” in which “the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil set[s] off a tornado in Texas.” The earth’s climate is one such dynamic, chaotic system and it is within the whirling, turbulent vortex of unpredictability that the modern climate scientists must tread.
And boldly have they stepped into the breach. The scope of agreement achieved by the world’s climate scientists is breathtaking. To first approximation, around 97% agree that human activity, particularly carbon dioxide emissions, causes global warming. So impressed was the Norwegian Nobel Committee by the work of the Inter-governmental Committee on Climate Change and Al Gore “for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change” that it awarded them the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize. So many great minds cannot possibly be wrong, right?
Yet something nags us about this self-congratulatory consensus. Our intuition is that this narrow distribution of opinions yields a knowability to consensus ratio far removed from the perfect ratio of 1. To reach their conclusions, climate scientists have to (a) uncover the (historical) drivers of climate, (b) project the future path of these inputs and others that may arise, and (c) predict how recursive feedback loops interact over multi-decadal time horizons, all without being able to test their hypotheses against reality. When evaluating the causes of past climate shifts, for example, scientists cannot simply re-run history to test the impact of changing different variables. Similarly, although climate scientists can make testable hypotheses about the future, their short-term predictions have an embarrassing record (think post-Katrina predictions of a massive surge in US hurricanes or the failed attempts to forecast temperature changes for the 2000s), while the debate will be moot by the time we can test their long-term forecasts in the year 2100.
We would, therefore, expect this limit on empirical verifiability to birth widely divergent views on the path, causes, and consequences of earth’s future climate. In other arenas, only after a theory has been empirically verified has the scientific community coalesced around it. Even then, scientists continue to subject such theories to rigorous testing and debate. For example, consider the current state of theoretical physics: quantum physics, loop quantum gravity, string theory, super-symmetry, and M-theory, among others, all vie for acceptance. Albert Einstein’s general relativity itself did not begin to garner widespread support until four years after its publication, when Arthur Eddington verified its predictions during a 1919 solar eclipse. Even so, as illustrated by the rash of headlines in late 2011 announcing the (false) discovery of faster-than-light neutrinos, scientists continue to try to poke holes in Einstein’s theory.
Yet the expectation of a rich debate among scientists about climate change does not reconcile easily with the widely endorsed shibboleth that human activity will warm the globe dramatically and dangerously over the next one hundred years. As climate scientists are themselves fond of repeating, the vast majority have arrived at the exact same conclusions about both past warming and future trends. Any discussion that doubts the fundamental premises of climate change is dismissed by the mainstream media and climate scientists as pseudo-science conducted by quacks or ideologues. Thus, questions about observational biases in the location of temperature stations, changes in the earth’s albedo, the cooling effect of dust particles, shifting ocean cycles, fluctuating solar activity, correlation v. causation of historical warm periods and carbon dioxide, catastrophic model failure caused by chaotic interactions, and innumerable other theories—most of which are presumably wrong—are never properly mooted in the public debate.
In our view, the fact that so many scientists agree so closely about the earth’s warming is, itself, evidence of a lack of evidence for global warming. Does this mean that climate change is not happening? Not necessarily. But it does mean that we should be wary of the meretricious arguments mustered in its defense. When evaluating complex questions—from climate change to economic growth, physiology to financial markets—it is worse than naïve to judge the veracity of an idea merely from the strength of consensus. The condemnation of Galileo Galilei meant one man served a sentence of life imprisonment. His ecumenical accusers at least acknowledged a force greater than science drove their decision. The modern priests of climate change endanger the lives of billions as they wield their fallacy that consensus is truth.
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Stan W. says:
April 30, 2013 at 10:21 pm
@William Howard McC:
please address the evidence i have presented
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and
Stan W. says:
April 30, 2013 at 10:31 pm
Konrad says:
blah blah blah
where can i read your published, peer reviewed work, Konrad?
i’m guessing nowhere. you’re an anomymout little blog commenter who does no science at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well Stan, I addressed the evidence you presented, but you ignored my comment. I also pointed out that the consensus science does not support your assertions, provided links to the IPCC report to verify my assertion, and you ignored that too. I guess it is easier to maintain a state of self delusion if one simply ignores contrary facts and evidence?
Stan W. says:
April 30, 2013 at 5:53 pm
“Measurements of the Radiative Surface Forcing of Climate,” W.F.J. Evans, Jan 2006
https://ams.confex.com/ams/Annual2006/techprogram/paper_100737.htm
I find it very interesting that you include this work in your list of supposedly probative studies as I have commented on it here quite a few times, although my own impressions are quite a bit different from those provided by the authors.They make quite a fuss about their observed increase in DLR
“This code has been used to calculate the model predicted increase in surface radiative forcing since 1850 to be 2.55 W/m2. In comparison, an ensemble summary of our measurements indicates that an energy flux imbalance of 3.5 W/m2 has been created by anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases since 1850. This experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming.”
They do however mostly neglect to mention that the entirety of the increase occurs in the dead of Winter, which leads me to the part where they pretty much buried the lead of what I always have found to be very revealing experiment. I would refer you to tables 3a & 3b in the paper which are respectively Measured Winter Downward Surface Fluxes and Measured Summer Downward Surface Fluxes they describe as follows “Table 3a shows the measured downward surface radiation forcing for three winter cases. CO2 is around 33 W/m2 , CH4 is 1.25 W/m2, N2O is 1.25 W/m2 and CFCs contribute around 0.25 W/m2″…”Table 3b shows the measured downward surface radiation forcing for three summer cases. The H2O flux has increased from about 100 W/m2 to 200 W/m2 . CO2 is reduced from 33 W/m2 to 11 W/m2 CH4 is reduced from 1.25 W/m2 to 0.8 W/m2. N2O is reduced from 1.25 W/m2 to 0.8 W/m2. O3 is reduced from 3.2 W/m2 to 2.6 W/m2 in summer. The CFCs contribution is about the same around 0.25 W/m2 and hence the relative contribution as compared to CO2 has increased.”
Did you catch that? Although the logical implication which seemed incredibly obvious to me as soon as I saw it is right there, most folks don’t see it that quickly. In Winter CO2 does account for about 25% of the total DLR, which is the conventional number, (33W/m2 out of 150+W/m2) , but in the Summer the CO2 contribution is dramatically suppressed (10.5W/m2 out of 270+W/m2 total) to about 4%
Note that 270 W/m2 total DLR number. This experiment was conducted in the middle of Canada and even in the peak of Summer the number is not that large. I would refer you to these maps of global DLR
http://tinyurl.com/maps-of-DLR
They would seem to indicate that over most of the Earth most of the time total DLR is in the 300-450W/m2 range and by extension, if the phenomenon which E&P observed and measured is real, CO2 is a fairly negligible contributor to total DLR(2-4% or less) over a majority of the planet a majority of the time. I’m not sure how real this is, but I would point out that the nice model they constructed to provide their baseline data for the 19th century matched the 10.5W/m2 Summer CO2 exactly.
What I have actually found most interesting about this work was the spectral analysis technique itself. It seemed to provide an obvious path to resolving once and for all the question of CO2’s role in forcing the climate. By deploying instruments capable of recording this kind of data continuously at a relatively small number of latitudinally distributed sites we would have in fairly shot order a database that would be capable of providing a clear outline of CO2’s role. It has been nearly a decade and a half since E&P did their field work and though I admit has been a number of months since I’ve gone looking, AFAIK, no such effort has occurred. I find that extremely curious. It’s almost as if the people doling out the climate research money don’t want to know what that data could tell them.
What a fine example of “begging the question” in the original sense.
You cannot sensibly use the your belief that the problem is too hard for any meaningful consensus, in a demonstration that any such consensus is not legitimate. It’s obvious that the former implies the latter, but you’re not any more done than you were before you made the point, because the premise is just a matter of undefended assertion.
Your belief is not the belief of those holding the consensus. So it is just another way of saying you doubt it. Yeah, we got that.
What is the consensus? That’s a good question.
I suggest that the consensus is:
1) that contemporary climate change on earth is overwhelmingly caused by inadvertent side effects of human activity,
2) that the forcing is cumulative, and therefore would increase even for stable emissions
3) that the expected and observed effects have recently become statistically unambiguous not to say painfully obvious to the casual observer (especially those attuned to one or more natural environments),
4) that there are large global-scale risks associated with foreseeable climate change,
and
5) the longer we delay an adequate policy response the greater the risk and the worse the final outcome will get for a given level of response effort and expense.
I believe it is fair to say, based on the substantial sample with whom I am best acquainted, that 97% of the 20,000 people, say, with the best claim to understanding of physics of climate agree with all that, and further that they are all supported by extensive and clear evidence.
In short, the parent article is wrong. There are solid policy-relevant conclusions in climate science on which there is a legitimate consensus.
Stan W.:
Not for the first time on WUWT, your arrogance and self-imposed ignorance are becoming annoying.
At April 30, 2013 at 10:21 pm you write
There was and is no need for ‘william McC’ to consider the irrelevant links you presented because others had explained their irrelevance. So, he debated their sociological import.
As one example of the reality which your question demonstrates you are refusing to face, I cite the post of davidmhoffer at April 30, 2013 at 8:47 pm. He explained to you
Indeed, on another WUWT thread (where you were a very annoying troll) I repeatedly informed you that they are not synonymous and why they are not synonymous. But you come back here and repeatedly post your question which displays your self-inflicted ignorance. And you do it with a complaint at ‘william McC’ because he makes a “sociological interpretation” on a thread about a sociological subject!
This thread is about false proclamations of certainty based on assertions of a “consensus”. Only yesterday on another WUWT thread I addressed the subject of this thread which you are trying to deflect. I copy that post to here to save others needing to find it, but it was at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/29/the-mental-control-of-the-97-consensus-myth-spans-politics/#comment-1292203
Richard
///////////////////////
richardscourtney says:
April 30, 2013 at 1:23 am
Friends:
I am surprised nobody in this thread has made the obvious point that the claim of “97% of scientists think” demonstrates that there is NO clear scientific evidence for what the 97% thinks.
Nobody says X% of scientists think
gravity exists,
the Arctic is a cold place,
fire is a chemical reaction,
the air is a mixture of gases,
or any number of other things for which there is clear scientific evidence.
People say the evidence for gravity is that apples fall down and not up. And etc.
People only say “X% of scientists think” when there is no clear evidence that the X% are right and there are good reasons to think the X% are wrong.
Richard
Janice Moore, even if you are fat and ugly,I love you. If I wasn’t commited I would hunt you down and prove that statement.
for Konrad: Years ago Charles the moderater came under attack. I then came out from my handle of taxistan and posted “my name is stan stendera and I stand with you Charles”. I have posted as stan stendera ever since. I do not regret “coming out”.
I suggest you use your full name when you post such lucid comments as above. I am not the only one who has approvingly noticed your comment. Posting under your real name is LIBERATING!
is there anyone here who will address the science?
richard_courtney will not, and so he is cut off.
anyone else?
you people are no challenge.
you completely ignore evidence.
that is not scientific.
i thought this was about science.
mtobis (@mtobis):
re your post at April 30, 2013 at 10:48 pm.
Your abject presentation of the Precautionary Principle is mistaken.
You assert that we should stop greenhouse gas emissions in case the AGW hypothesis is right. But that turns the Precautionary Principle on its head.
Stopping the emissions would reduce fossil fuel usage with resulting economic damage. This would be worse than the ‘oil crisis’ of the 1970s because the reduction would be greater, would be permanent, and energy use has increased since then. The economic disruption would be world-wide. Major effects would be in the developed world because it has the largest economies. Worst effects would be on the world’s poorest peoples: people near starvation are starved by it.
Indeed, the world’s population is anticipated to continue to increase until it peaks at (conservatively) ~2.6 billion more people around the middle of this century. Those extra people need sufficient energy to survive, and that requires the use of fossil fuels and nuclear power. Stopping increase to CO2 emissions constrains increased use of fossil fuels and thus condemns those extra people to death.
The precautionary principle says we should not accept the risks of certain economic disruption with billions of resulting deaths in attempt to control the world’s climate on the basis of assumptions that have no supporting evidence and merely because they’ve been described using computer games.
Richard
For Stan W.: I am ashamed I share the same first name as you, you troll. I do, however, notice you do not post under your full name. Hummmmm.
Friends:
I strongly recommend ignoring the troll posting as StanW. That troll’s egregious behaviour destroyed another thread by – as he/she/it/they is doing here – ignoring all information and repeatedly posting nonsense.
Don’t feed the troll and the troll may go away because its attention-seeking will have failed.
Richard
Stan Stendera! (blush) I think you’re pretty cool, too. But, how did you know that I am fat and ugly? LOL. [#:o0]-|- @ur momisugly The Brumberg Bros. — good job. Worthwhile topic. Meaningful conclusions rationally arrived at. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
Hey, Mr. Stendera, sorry about that weirdly truncated post above — the entire middle section mysteriously did not get copied onto the page. It went something like:
I’m glad I checked back here (wondered if Mr. W. read my letter on other thread — apparently not) before signing off — I was wondering if all was well with you (I even prayed), for you weren’t posting as much as I’ve observed you to do. Glad to “hear” your voice.
Thanks for making my evening, Mr. S.. And whomever you are committed to is blessed. I’m sure she knows it, too.
Take care.
HEY, I think I just figured out why part of my post was auto-deleted — for “legs” on my little stick lady, I used the “less than” sign and it and all that followed for quite a bit of text went — POOF!
Re: “… I am ashamed I share the same first name as …” [STAN S.]
Mr. Stendera, with my last name, I understand completely! (please, don’t even mention that man!)
Stan W. says:
April 30, 2013 at 11:07 pm
is there anyone here who will address the science?
richard_courtney will not, and so he is cut off.
anyone else?
Jeez. Stan you make me feel like Rodney Dangerfield! In comment above I offered a somewhat different, but what I feel to be an entirely logical, contrarian interpretation of the data collected. I expected someone of your obvious intellectual gifts to be able to point out precisely why I was wrong. But you just ignored me. I can’t get no respect!
AGW cannot easily be tested but some observations can be made and compared to the theory.
1) The still missing tropospheric missing hotspot.
2) Flat global mean temps for over 15 years while co2 continues to rise.
3) Failed predictions of warmer, less snowy northern hemisphere winters.
(Weather not climate: Last weekend it snowed in 26 regions of Spain, some beaches whitened).
4) [insert your own observations]……………
Stan W. says:
April 30, 2013 at 10:31 pm
“Konrad says:
blah blah blah
where can i read your published, peer reviewed work, Konrad?
i’m guessing nowhere. you’re an anomymout (sic) little blog commenter who does no science at all.”
————————————————————————————————————–
Well that one’s a keeper! Clearly you are not too enamoured of spelling, punctuation or science. Has the rabid foam disabled your shift key?
What I gave you was a link to instructions for five simple empirical experiments that demonstrate the flaws in the radiative greenhouse hypothesis. I’m given to understand that repeatable empirical experiments are something of a cornerstone in the traditional scientific method. I have designed these versions of the experiments to be simple enough for most readers to build and run. However AGW believers may need Mum, Dad or a responsible adult to help with the scissors.
Experiment 1 demonstrates that unlike other materials, liquid water does not have its cooling rate significantly effected by incident LWIR. This means that the surface would not be 33C cooler under a non radiative atmosphere.
Experiment 2 demonstrates the ability of CO2 to radiate energy it has acquired by conduction rather than intercepted surface IR. Most of the net energy that radiative gases emit to space was acquired by surface conduction and release of latent heat.
Experiment 3 shows how energy loss at altitude in a fluid column in a gravity field is important for convective circulation. Radiative gases do this in our atmosphere. Remember that cooling by expansion of rising air masses (adiabatic cooling) does not represent energy loss from the air mass.
Experiment 4 shows the effect of convective circulation on the average temperature of gas columns in a gravity field. Box 1 with convective circulation driven by heating at the base and cooling at the top runs cooler than box 2 with cooling and heating at the base. Box 1 may have a higher “surface Tav, but the gas column is cooler. Box 2 has a lower “surface” Tav but a higher gas temperature.
Experiment 5 shows why greater radiative cooling of the night land surface under a non radiative atmosphere would not result in significantly greater conductive cooling of an atmosphere in which the gases are free to move. The surface is better a conductively heating a moving atmosphere than it is at conductively cooling it.
Because of their critical role in driving convective circulation and radiating energy to space, radiative gases act to cool our atmosphere at all concentrations above 0.0ppm. Without radiative gases, average tropospheric temperatures would rapidly rise towards surface Tmax.
The flawed AGW calculations that show radiative gases heating the atmosphere are all based on treating the atmosphere as a static body or layer. For a classic example of this mistake see Willis’ article here – http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/17/the-steel-greenhouse/
The mistake of treating the atmosphere as a static body or layer is the very foundation of the AGW hypothesis. It is a mistake that can never be erased from the Internet.
REPLY: The point is to discuss it not be snooty about it. The fact that it irritates you gives it more credibility, since your role is defender of the indefensible. – Anthony
Discuss what? The notion that scientific conclusions are more suspect if the weight of consensus is stronger?
“In our view, the fact that so many scientists agree so closely about the earth’s warming is, itself, evidence of a lack of evidence for global warming.”
The view is unlikely on its face. The implication is that scientific understanding with less consensus is more certain. The argument given, such as it is, is circular reasoning at best (more accurately, doubling down on assertions), and there is not a jot of data to back it up. The degree of scientific uncertainty on climate change is not quantified with respect to the other sciences mentioned, it is only assumed. There is no substance to discuss. The facts on offer are poorly reasoned out. for example;
We can land a craft on the moon via Newtonian physics, and Einstein’s work supercedes Newton’s. Uncertainty on finer points don’t undo the general strength (utility) of well-established theories, and the notion of AGW has been around for more than a century, never mind 4 years. So why would I be interested in considering the article author’s unquantified assumptions about uncertainty on climate change?
Uncertainty should lead a skeptic to think that projections of climate change could both underestimate or overestimate future warming. I think most people here agree that there should be some warming with an ever-increasing atmospheric concentration of CO2. It seems the author of the article attaches no probability to the notion at all. The rebuttal to the consensus on that is something about groupthink, as if there are a dozen scientists pushing AGW and all the other researchers in the field disregard their own work and skeptical rigour and mindlessly tag along. But that’s not an argument either. it’s just assertion again, an assertion that has a receptive audience here.
Why is it that, for some people, scientific uncertainty on climate change means that therefore projections are overestimated – instead of uncertainy going either way? The argument for that view seems to rely on highly selective reading of the literature, or positing that thousands of climate scientists have surrendered their professionalism to fashionable ideas.
(Don’t mistake vigorous disagreement for an emotional response. This is straight criticism, not snootiness, and variety of opinion is the spice of blogs, isn’t it?)
Stan W. says:
April 30, 2013 at 10:21 pm
@William Howard McC:
please address the evidence i have presented, and not some lame sociological interpretation of it.
thank you.
““Increases in greenhouse forcing inferred from the outgoing longwave radiation spectra of the Earth in 1970 and 1997,” J.E. Harries et al, Nature 410, 355-357 (15 March 2001).
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/abs/410355a0.html”
That’s a tough one. Might it be the last peak in PDO/AMDO? We did “discover” it the year before, after all…….. Or were the authors of this tome unaware?
“Comparison of spectrally resolved outgoing longwave data between 1970 and present,” J.A. Griggs et al, Proc SPIE 164, 5543 (2004). http://spiedigitallibrary.org/proceedings/resource/2/psisdg/5543/1/164_1
I presume that this is all that is needed to avoid the fact that from 1 to 3 natural warmings (typical at post MPT end extreme interglacials) swamp what could happen anyway? Have already happened, anyway? You say you can get here with greenhouse gases. And if you/we somehow manage not to? It can happen anyway. Ffrom 1 to almost 2 orders of magnitude, because, well, it already has. Once? Twice? Why should this/that even matter?
At the very least, In order to be anomalous, you have to trump background. And that’s a pretty tall order: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/05/on-%E2%80%9Ctrap-speed-acc-and-the-snr/
I’ll see your Hansen prognosticated 20-feet (~+6M) AMSL rise by whenever and raise you +52M AMSL in the Eemian http://lin.irk.ru/pdf/6696.pdf
and call almost an order of magnitude more climate chips for gaia…….
“Spectral signatures of climate change in the Earth’s infrared spectrum between 1970 and 2006,” Chen et al, (2007) http://www.eumetsat.int/Home/Main/Publications/Conference_and_Workshop_Proceedings/groups/cps/documents/document/pdf_conf_p50_s9_01_harries_v.pdf
“Radiative forcing – measured at Earth’s surface – corroborate the increasing greenhouse effect,” R. Phillipona et al, Geo Res Letters, v31 L03202 (2004)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2003GL018765/abstract
“Measurements of the Radiative Surface Forcing of Climate,” W.F.J. Evans, Jan 2006
https://ams.confex.com/ams/Annual2006/techprogram/paper_100737.htm
So, if, for whatever reason, measurement of (and I do indeed mean whatever) the late 20th century C.E. single (so far) potentially end-interglacial warming is in some, yet undocumented way, categorically distinguishable from the long single thermal excursion end-MIS-11, the close-spaced double thermal excursions at the end-Eemian or the 3 longer, more spread-out thermal excursions at end MIS-19 (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/16/the-end-holocene-or-how-to-make-out-like-a-madoff-climate-change-insurer/), then you might need to up your climate game.
At the very least wouldn’t an alarming prognostication have to exceed what has already happened in terms of abruptness and magnitude? In what other way would it pose an environmental exigency relative to (been there before, and recent) noise?
Just sayin
i have yet to see @richard_courtney actually answer a question.
he finds it far more convenient to call people names.
that’s not scientific.
isn’t this a web site about science?
yes, i think it is.
Stan W. says at April 30, 2013 at 5:53 pm.
I haven’t time nor money to go through all the paywalls but I will address (as an amateur, even) the first paper.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/pdf/410355a0.pdf
It does not support the mindless following of the manufactured consensus. Try reading the paper, not just the title or abstract.
I’ll just quote the paper,
“It is quite possible that small residual amounts of ice cloud absorption remain in both sets of data. Owing to the larger ®eld of view, the IRIS spectra have a much higher probability of being contaminated than their IMG counterparts. The observed 1 K or so enhancement of the 800±
1,000 cm-1 difference signal would be consistent with this, and could also arise from a change in the mean cirrus microphysical properties.
We cannot separate these two effects, but we do conclude that the observed window difference spectra strongly indicate an effect involving residual small ice crystal effects, incompletely cleared
from the data. R.J.B. has performed further calculations, following on earlier work, which confirm that window difference spectra of the magnitude observed can easily arise from small changes in amount, size or shape of small ice crystals: these studies also indicate that the difference spectrum should be larger below about 920 cm-1, which is consistent with the observed data, especially the global case (Fig. 1b).”
In other words, they found that clouds have an effect that masks any effect of CO2.
Worse for the consensus is their figure 1c. Look at the lack of CO2 peak in the unmasked region. Actual proof that the absorption at that wavelength is saturated. (Or at least masked)
How can you present that as support for the consensus?
jimmy:
2) Flat global mean temps for over 15 years while co2 continues to rise.
why are you ignoring the strong ocean warming in this time period?
@Dave_Wendt:
you are also cut off — too many words, too little content.
please try again on another post.
next?
The problem with Statist governments trying to develop environmental policies of complex, chaotic, non-linear and recursive-feedback systems, is that their decisions are based on inherently inaccurate and unverified/unverifiable data.
To justify draconian measures taken to mitigate a perceived CAGW problem, politicians employ Pascal’s Wager apologetics, making the case that since there is a chance we’ll all die in the future if we don’t take immediate action against CAGW, t’s better to do something and be wrong, than to do nothing risk possible death.
The fallacy of Pascal’s Wager logic is that it doesn’t take into consideration the infinite number of unintended consequences of CAGW mitigation: the loss of manufacturing jobs caused by uncompetitive and unnecessary EPA regulations, reduced GDP from higher energy costs, increased welfare payments to unemployed workers caused by CAGW legislation, reduced quality of life from reduced disposable income due to higher energy costs, higher taxes to pay for higher welfare payments, reduced R&D funding from higher corporate taxes/operating costs/rule and regulation compliance, increased product and services prices caused by increased input costs of CAGW rules and regulations, the young potential nuclear physicist that has to work construction because his dad was fired at the coal mine, so he can’t go to university to develop the revolutionary fusion reactor that’s never built, etc. etc., etc., in ad infinitum….
In a “settled” (sarc/off) science, that is far from being settled or verified by empirical evidence, it’s far better to act ex post rather than ex ante, because the ACTUAL negative impacts of unintended consequences from taking action of an unverified risk, far exceed the actual costs of the perceived threat. It’s far better and cheaper to adapt to actual results of a perceived threat than to mistakenly take action against a threat that will most likely not happen.
Moreover, the potential net economic/social benefits from increased CO2 and slightly warmer temperatures may actually exceed the costs of reducing manmade CO2…. Go figure.
And so it goes…..until it doesn’t…
mtobis (@mtobis) says: April 30, 2013 at 10:48 pm
Well, golly-gee, MT … perhaps you’d better let Mike Hulme know about this. After all, he says he’s a climatologist and he should know, shouldn’t he?
[See: Honey, I shrunk the consensus! for source and subsequent “clarifications” from Hulme.]
I think you should probably let IPCC CLA, Richard Klein know, as well. Because he has declared:
[See: A conversation with an IPCC coordinating lead author]
But I do appreciate that this myth of a “scientific consensus” has certainly taken very firm root. in your mind. As it has with all the big green activist and advocacy groups, amongst others. And as it probably has with E3G’s John Ashton – a chap who believes that the U.K. Met Office is a “jewel in the crown, of British science and global science”.
And I’m inclined to think you may well take comfort in some of Ashton’s recent exhortations to the folks at the Met Office (which I have documented here):
Heck, Ashton’s as convincing a crusader as you are, MT!
Stan W.
Most (nearly all) commenters here are at least polite in the debate as that is the only way a true debate will really work.
You are not. Is your boring rudeness natural (perhaps genetic) or do you spend time practicing?