People send me stuff.
Finally … finally! … a person trained by Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project agreed to face off in a public debate on global warming. As WUWT readers may know, trying to get one of these folks to debate a skeptic has been an impossible task…until now. Full video follows, running about 59 minutes.
While I don’t know the details, I suspect the video quality has to do with an apparent long standing policy of Gore’s presenters refusing to allow their presentations to be video taped. My impression is that this appears to be a clandestine recording made by an audience member.
From an email I received:
============================================================
Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project squared off against The Heartland Institute in a global warming debate January 8 in Tallahassee, Florida. More than 260 people attended the hour-long debate, which resulted in standing room only at the Tallahassee Elks Club Lodge, which hosted the debate.
Ray Bellamy, a Florida State University faculty member who gives public presentations on behalf of Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project, argued humans are causing a global warming crisis. Taylor countered that global warming activists have proven none of four important factors they need to show in order to demonstrate a human-induced global warming crisis.
“I am very happy that this debate is now available on the Internet so people can see the for themselves, without having to wade through media filters, who possesses and presents the best evidence in a fair and balanced debate,” said Taylor.
“I encourage people to watch the debate and then share it with friends, family and acquaintances. So long as people have access to the truth, I believe the truth will always prevail,” said Taylor.
=============================================================
Source: Alyssa Carducci
The YouTube page says:
Heartland Institute Senior Fellow James Taylor debates Ray Bellamy, M.D., a Tallahassee Orthopedic Surgeon at the Elks Club Lodge at 276 North Magnolia Drive in Tallahassee, Florida on Jan. 8, 2013.
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must have hit a few nerves. Funny how truth can do that. Sure has been warm today, oddly warm
and all over the planet too. Heard the news about the severity of air quality in China this past week? Chinese authorities warning the public to stay indoors. Chinese and India too wants to drive big SUV’s to Walmarts, just like us. Oyster bed collapse, plastic islands floating in the ocean, rivers running dry, elephants/rhinos being slaughtered for penile dysfunction cures, disappearance of vital
rain forests so you can get cheap hamburgers, wildfires starting by drought and increased lightning strikes, tremendous ice melt in the arctic (satellite pictures don’t lie-unlike people)
increasing disease and starvation due to careless and prodigious breeding of the human species,
destined to increase civil unrest in already desperate countries.
people drinking recycled sewer water, decimation of soil and errosion, drought-stressed trees being rotted by investing insects, economic damage from super storms, Oceans overfished, dead zones in the Gulf. The term pollution has grown up and coming home to a theatre near you. Have you ever or can you admit when you are wrong? But hey, don’t argue with me, hide behind slick repetitious.big-money funded “papers”.
Nature doesn’t give a damn about sentiment, yours or mine.
Anna, Every sane individual understands that we have a responsibility to, putting it delicately, not deficate in our own nest. You list a number of notable transgressions.
Shame on us. (You included) It is reasonable to be upset. It will require resources to set these these transgressions right.
Unfortunately RAILING against discussions on scientific proocess and theory is not putting resources to work making the changes.
Anna:
As you say, we have pollution and we need to reduce it. But we should also rejoice that pollution from human activities is now less than it has been for thousands of years.
Richard
Anna says:
January 13, 2013 at 11:58 am
must have hit a few nerves. Funny how truth can do that. Sure has been warm today, oddly warm
and all over the planet too.
…………………………………………………
No it hasn’t been warm all over the planet today, Anna:
It’s been unusually cold in India:
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2013/Jan/13/snowfall-brings-respite-from-cold-38.asp
the United Kingdom:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21004656
and California:
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/January/Temperatures-Plunge-in-California/
I’ve tried to keep to news sources you might trust.
Now, you can say that’s just weather, or even that it’s an effect of CO2, if you like but you CAN’T say that it’s been “oddly warm”. The clear facts say otherwise, so it makes you look a bit silly if you do – a bit like swearing blind that the sky is a glorious shade of green 🙂
Anna says:
January 13, 2013 at 11:58 am
must have hit a few nerves. Funny how truth can do that. Sure has been warm today, oddly warm
and all over the planet too.
==========================
Me: I assume you don’t live in North Dakota.
===========================
Heard the news about the severity of air quality in China this past week? Chinese authorities warning the public to stay indoors.
===========================
Me: The USEPA originally addressed a real problem. Since then it’s become a policy tool.
===========================
Chinese and India too wants to drive big SUV’s to Walmarts, just like us. Oyster bed collapse, plastic islands floating in the ocean, rivers running dry, elephants/rhinos being slaughtered for penile dysfunction cures, disappearance of vital
rain forests so you can get cheap hamburgers, wildfires starting by drought and increased lightning strikes, tremendous ice melt in the arctic (satellite pictures don’t lie-unlike people)
===========================
Me: I’ve been alive and remember further back than any satellite pictures you may have seen. Yes, people lie. What lies have you chosen to believe? And what do you have against a “cheap hamburger”? Are you a vegan? Is low priced food a bad thing?
===========================
increasing disease and starvation due to careless and prodigious breeding of the human species,
destined to increase civil unrest in already desperate countries.
===========================
Me: So you have a problem with people in general? Why should anybody think that anything you advocate is for the good of humanity?
============================
people drinking recycled sewer water,
==============================
Me: Unless it was made in a lab, there isn’t a molecule of water on the planet that hasn’t been “recycled”. Is that what you really want, all molecules of water must be produced in a lab? That would take a LOT of energy. Where are YOU going to get it?
===========================
decimation of soil and errosion, drought-stressed trees being rotted by investing insects,
============================
Me: Bring back DDT?
=============================
economic damage from super storms, Oceans overfished, dead zones in the Gulf.
==============================
Me: “Super” storms? I know you don’t personally remember storms that were actually stronger than what the MSM media has labeled “super storms”. Please take some time to look up just how strong past storms have been before those who would manipulate you started to call recent storms “super”.
===============================
The term pollution has grown up and coming home to a theatre near you. Have you ever or can you admit when you are wrong? But hey, don’t argue with me, hide behind slick repetitious.big-money funded “papers”.
================================
Me: Maybe you should lay off the SyFy channel for awhile?
================================
Nature doesn’t give a damn about sentiment, yours or mine.
=================================
Me: At least you admit the weather is natural.
Will you admit what Gore “et al” have done with it is carnal?
Anna:
Satellite pictures don’t lie, but the people choosing, cropping and publishing them certainly can and do. Unless multiple sources put online every single satellite photo ever taken for free public comparison, the lying and misrepresentations will continue. There are multiple satellites and multiple angles, all of which can skew what the picture is said to represent.
What does plastic floating in the ocean have to do with global warming? I thought that was just lazy, inconsiderate humans throwing things out.
Even if it were “oddly warm today” that’s ONE data point and has no meaning outside of that point in time. Also, I thought weather and climate were not the same thing–unless you want them to be. There have always been wildfires–one of the biggest in Wyoming occurred during a “normal” year. Millions of acres. Not really proving climate change there.
Actually, research indicates it is not “over-breeding” that is the problem–it’s the pesky fact that babies and children refuse to die as frequently in the past. So you are in favor of babies and children dying? Seems cruel to me.
Anna says:
January 13, 2013 at 11:58 am
Is your rant over?
Now, just WHAT will increasing poverty from YOUR demand that already too high energy prices increase through bureaucracy and taxes – all that going to the corrupt bureaucracies and governments worldwide who CAUSE that poverty you declaim? – … Just WHAT will increasing poverty do to “feed the poor, cloth the naked, heat the cold, shelter the homeless and comfort the afflicted?
Just what will increasing the price of energy worldwide do to solve poverty and grow more food and lower pollution?
YOU – your attitude and your prejudices and your demands and your hatred towards others – are the cause of this poverty and disease and filth. YOU do not want their freedom and their ability to gain wealth and health and their happiness.
YOU want them dead, bluntly put, so YOU can live in your cocoon (er, energy-fed city with lights and power and heat and oil and food and sanitation and transportation) as YOU want.
With moral governments – and NO socialist state, communist state, nor tribal kingdom or ignorant 7th century religious state ANYWHERE is “solving” any poverty.
Moral capitalism and moral free men and women with the FREEDOM to earn and spend and decide WILL SOLVE those problems you mentioned. EVERY PROBLEM you decry is caused by corrupt governments and corrupt bureaucracies and socialist-driven demands. The most polluted, most poverty stricken people drinking that “recycled sewage” ARE the result of YOUR policies and YOUR international governing bodies.
Give me free markets, cheaper energy, better transportation, more steel, copper, concrete, coal, fertilizers, and roads and I’ll solve those problems you are crying about. ONLY the richest economies, least corrupt nations can afford to solve pollution and poverty. Many years ago, we tried dirt farming with “natural fertilizers and no fossil fuel except what was cut by hand. Know what happened?
Of their OWN FREE WILL, millions left that farm to work 12 hour days in unhealthy and unsafe factories — because it better for them! Those workers had choices – they KNEW how bad it was “back on the farm” and they LEFT for the cities and mines and railroads and workshops.
Me: At least you admit the weather is natural.
Will you admit what Gore “et al” have done with it is carnal?
==============================================
Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by “carnal”. I mean a selfish serving of personal desires, putting personal desires above any ethical or moral considerations.
Anna says:
January 13, 2013 at 11:58 am
must have hit a few nerves. Funny how truth can do that. Sure has been warm today, oddly warm
and all over the planet too. Heard the news about the severity of air quality in China this past week? Chinese authorities warning the public to stay indoors. Chinese and India too wants to drive big SUV’s to Walmarts, just like us. Oyster bed collapse, plastic islands floating in the ocean, rivers running dry, elephants/rhinos being slaughtered for penile dysfunction cures, disappearance of vital
rain forests so you can get cheap hamburgers, wildfires starting by drought and increased lightning strikes, tremendous ice melt in the arctic (satellite pictures don’t lie-unlike people)
increasing disease and starvation due to careless and prodigious breeding of the human species,
destined to increase civil unrest in already desperate countries.
people drinking recycled sewer water, decimation of soil and errosion, drought-stressed trees being rotted by investing insects, economic damage from super storms, Oceans overfished, dead zones in the Gulf. The term pollution has grown up and coming home to a theatre near you. Have you ever or can you admit when you are wrong? But hey, don’t argue with me, hide behind slick repetitious.big-money funded “papers”.
Nature doesn’t give a damn about sentiment, yours or mine.
========================================================
Oh Anna.
No I just feel very very sorry for you. You have stated no truth just bad emotion laden propaganda. You can’t prove or link to any real facts can you. I notice you dropped every claim you made in your first post.
Now it is breaking cold records today where I live. So no it isn’t warm today. I remember back in the 1970’s when it would have been 75 outside not 40.
So you want to do something about China? Go over there and do it then. Nothing you do here will have any impact on them.
What oyster beds have collapsed and why?
What plastic islands floating? Links please.
Oohhh so your condemning Asian culture? That is the culture that is big on the ‘nautural’ penile cures. The US uses modern drugs not herbal traditional remedies. So if you have a problem with it take it up with them. Don’t come to me in the US and complain about it. I can’t do anything about it take your war to the people doing what you don’t like.
You really should research the claim about Ice melt. You would find that you have been lied to or else you know very well that you are the liar.
How are the rainforests linked to cheap hamburgers? Cites please. Or is this just propaganda you believe never having looked into it?
You probably should research the real causes of diseases and starvation. I’ll give you a couple of hints. First population has nothing to do with it and governments do.
Wild fires out of control have more to do with years of stopping every fire not your propaganda you again claim.
You do realize that if you live in a city the odds are you drink recycled sewer water.
I had no idea insects invested but you should provide links to your claim about draught stressed trees etc… again you will find that the claim isn’t what you think it is.
Super Storms. Go back and look at history. The measly minor storms we have lately are nothing on the storms of the past. You have nothing there but bad propaganda again. Propaganda that doesn’t even stand up to minor research.
You should research your over fishing claim.
Also you should check on the claim of dead zones.
Oh I can admit when I’m wrong but since you have just spouted nothing but emotional propaganda that isn’t remotely true I can’t see where I’m wrong. You on the hand are very very wrong.
And big money? All of that is producing the propaganda your mindlessly spouting here. That is where the big money is. Perhaps you should be asking why all the big money is producing the slick propaganda your buying into.
I think you should all leave poor Anna with the comfort and solace of her delusions. She reminds me very much of the very nice Scandinavian lady who unfortunate enough to meet up with Lord Monckton at a climate protest. It was good humoured but very telling.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhu3ESXvGR4&w=420&h=315%5D
Hi Anna,
I was going to try and reply point-by-point to your second post, but I think Gunga Din did a better job than I could. However, I’d like to say the following to you in the most genuine and sincere way I can:
Like you are now, I was once someone who had bought into ‘global warming’ (as it was known back then before they shifted the goalposts to ‘climate change’). However, I started to visit sceptic sites and began to realise what a scam CAGW was – it was just a bunch of extremely rich companies, universities, radical advocacy groups and hucksters using the the threat of impending catastrophe to advance their own, often conflicting, interests. Indeed, I learned of bizarre moments when radical environmentalists sat down with oil company execs so that they could work together on putting the coal industry out of business.
When I tried to return to warmist sites such as ‘Climate Progress’ and ‘Sceptikal Science’ and post some fairly mild comments criticising the CAGW hypothesis, my posts either vanished without trace or I was accused (amongst other things) of being a gun-toting, SUV-driving, pro-life, faggot-hating, bear hunting, beer-swilling, anti-science, racist, bible-thumping fundamentalist from the Deep South who was obviously in the pay of ‘Big Oil’.
Fortunately, those calling me names couldn’t me more wrong: I’m an atheist, I don’t own a car and instead I ride a bicycle (fixes rule!), I’m avowedly pro-choice, I love scuba-diving rather than hunting, I come from the UK, and I love a well-mixed cocktail. As for the ‘faggot hating’ thing; well, I teach mathematics to students in a world famous performing arts school where it is camper than a row of tents – everyone calls each other ‘darling’, they sing show-tunes all day, and students arrive to my mathematics lessons in leotards and tap-shoes. It’s an absolute scream!
I suppose what I’m trying to say is please stick around here at WUWT and listen to what we have to say – it’s all about true science being discussed by a very large and diverse group of genuinely sincere people (most of whom happen to be educated in the hard sciences) and nothing to do with slaughtering rhinos to help cure our erectile dysfunction problems.
All the best,
Andy
A medical doctor uses data every day. We all know that doctors have to obtain all manner of data: X-rays, scans, blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, blood tests, urine samples, respiration, ECG’s, biopsies etc. Such data is essential for a proper diagnosis.
Yet when Dr Bellamy is confronted with data about this planet he refuses to accept it.
When discussing medical doctors who use data every day and presumably follow the science, one must remember, there’s always Dr. Oz doing everything but that. An MD does not necessarily mean one will stick with science when something more popular and lucrative comes along.
I only give as good as I receive.
. Arguing with reality, does not change reality.
Educated and objective scientists should always check funding sources and research criterion
used for any study.One should cross reference. Many of the so-called “scientists” sited in these
“studies” are neither scientists nor objective.
The so-called “Oregon Petition” was signed by people with degrees in religion, archeology, etc.
Would you allow your general practioner to operate on your brain? I think we should leave climatology science to highly trained, educated scientists with PHD’s in climatology. Mr. Taylor
is a lawyer representing the fossil fuel industry. Can you make the connection? As for the question about oyster bed collapse and ignorance of other human-sourced trashing of nature, I encourage the writers involved in this group, for the sake of your offspring’s future habitat, please educate
yourselves, perhaps seek counseling. Denial is a form of pathology. good luck.
Dear Ms. Anna Miller, were you one of the people in the audience at Tallahassee?
Anna:
Your post at January 14, 2013 at 7:21 am shows that you failed to read or understand the responses to your earlier post, and it includes your saying
If that be true then I respectfully suggest that you seek treatment for it.
Richard
Anna says:
January 14, 2013 at 7:21 am
Let me make a correction to your propagandic screed above:
EVERY ONE of the so-called “scientists” sited in these “climate studies” are biased government-paid scientists promoting their objective. EVERY part of their future funding, their current reputations, their future papers, their future promotions, their bureau’s budget next year and EVEY PART of their political power stems directly and proportionally from their personal zealotry and their personal prejudices towards promoting their catastrophic global warming dogma.
Because you claim “oil money” is corrupting science” – and so many thousands of your fellow religious zealots do as you have just done – then obviously you must have evidence of such manipulation of “science” …. Since you know nobody in the energy or engineering or power production industry and cannot provide any evidence of any “skeptic” actually corrupting the science of climate research, then I directly you of observing CAGW corruption, an dprojecting that corruption towards skeptics because YOU are biased or corrupt yourself.
Or you are lying about skeptical corruption.
Would I allow a general practitioner to operate on my heart?
I would rather an honest optometrist operate on my heart than a corrupt “heart surgeon” would cannot even tell when my blood pressure is falling, who refuses to measure my blood pressure, but rather predicts EVERY minute that it will get higher … Your precious “heart surgeons” are using leeches and purgatives to “get rid of bad fluences” …. because that’s what their medieval theory says. Because that’s what they are being paid to say. Because that’s what they believe is the latest medical practices.
I thank both both debaters, James Taylor of HI and Ray Bellamy M.D, for the willingness to have a public debate on climate science.
If only the fake CAGW consensus, one that is incorrectly implied by the biased IPCC assessment processes, would be so willing to debate after avoiding it for >20 years.
John
Anna: In politics, you follow the money. In science, you follow the data. Your insistence in following the money clearly shows you are engaging in a Political discussion. Try using data and join the science group.
Yes, funding will have an influence–as in government funding of AGW “proofs”. As in oil companies and drug companies funding their own research on their products. This is NOT PROOF the science is wrong. It has nothing to do with the truth value of the information. It may lead one to question the research, but bottom line, it is the DATA that matters.
I am sick of that stupid “would you let a doctor” question. I wouldn’t let any doctor do brain surgery without checking him out thoroughly. Dr. Oz is/was a cardiac surgeon. I wouldn’t let him treat a hang nail. I DO NOT care whether the AMA gave them a license–the AMA can be wrong and doctors can be wrong. The really cool thing about that question is the LAW will not let my general practitioner do surgery so the whether or not a general practitioner could do brain surgery is irrelevant–he is not allowed. I have been thoroughly damaged by incompetent people who had MDs after their names. MD is not synonymous with God, except in the mind of those who worship titles.
Oh Anna really that was your response? That was the best you could do?
Denial is a form of pathology. good luck.
You really need to gaze deep into a mirror and ponder your confusion about life. You appear to mean well but you don’t have any clue about how to actually help the world.
As for your diatribe about scientists why do most of the AGW scientists receive millions in big oil money? You did know that major corporate and oil money back the AGW studies and also back the major ‘environmental’ groups. Have you asked yourself what they are getting out of that?
Also you appear to be ignorant of the fact that most of the ‘climate’ scientists don’t have their degrees in that. They have their degrees in things like trees, computers, and other things but not in the climate. Yet you accept blindly that they are experts while questioning in detail everyone else.
Also I know very well about various ecological disasters and their aftermath but I am certain that you don’t which is why I told you provide proof something you haven’t done once in any of your emotional propagandist diatribes. Basically you appear to be just a propagandist not actually a concerned person. If you where really concerned about the environment you would do the research asked of you.
And again why do you appear to believe the fossil fuel propaganda? When you are the one spouting their propaganda?
@Anna if you really are who you claim, you would post under your full name so in 10 years time we can confirm your claims.
Have you read the IPCC AR4? Does could-a, would-a, might-a & maybe ring any bells?
Or are you just venting your own personality disorder at WUWT?
Nice of you to drop by, but could you please point me to the actual science that supports your rather random ranting?
Projection is rough on your ego after a while, something about 3 fingers pointing back at you.
Yes we pollute the planet, how is hysteria and misappropriation of public funds in the name of AGW, going to help reduce pollution?
If you have evidence of measurable AGW and a causation that can be tested, please produce it.
Or sell it to the IPCC, cause they are desperate for such .
Oh yeah, Anna highly trained,expert, ethical scientists, like the ones corresponding about “Science” in the CRU emails?
Wasn’t there something about a floating plastic island in the mid-Pacific gyre?
As I recall, some environmentalists went looking for it and were a little disappointed to find it didn’t exist.
DaveE.
The comments from Anna show that she is not a scientist.
In her second post, she rambled about: “…air quality in China…Oyster bed collapse…
plastic islands floating in the ocean…rivers running dry…elephants/rhinos being
slaughtered…disappearance of vital rain forests…wildfires starting by drought
and increased lightning strikes…tremendous ice melt in the arctic…increasing
disease and starvation due to careless and prodigious breeding…people drinking
recycled sewer water…decimation of soil and erosion…drought-stressed trees
being rotted…economic damage from super storms…oceans overfished…
dead zones in the Gulf.”
By my count, of these 15 issues, at least 9 have absolutely no connection to
supposedly CO2-driven warming. It’s not clear whether she is simply ignorant
or deliberately using the debater’s trick, common among so-called environmentalists,
of conflating the results of OTHER types of pollution with CO2.
As others here have pointed out, the items in her list that might have some
connection to human-caused global warming are all largely speculative.
In case Anna might still be reading here, news flash for you–
many of the posters here are concerned about ACTUAL pollution. They share
any concern you might have for making sure that industrial impact on the
environment is minimized. However, the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that
CO2 can be regulated as a pollutant is a prime example of why lawyers
should not be allowed to do science. The results are ludicrous–on the
order of a cow trying to play the violin.
Chris R… Anna is either a misled but devout advocate of the earth or more likely a propagandist for Big Environment. And shills for one or more of those organizations for money.
I generally suspect she falls into the misled but devout category. She has bought into all of the propaganda about how horrible the environment suffers and won’t someone do anything about it. So she commits energy to her cause without ever asking if she is doing good or evil? Does what she does improve the environment or damage it more and clearly if she follows any of the major environmental movements she is off into the causes more damage to the environment and humans.
That is the dirty secret. There are many many many ways to improve the and help the environment but you need to know if your actions are helping or not and the believers never question never bother to check if their good intentions equal good outcomes.
It is sad really.
I personally do take my steps to help and improve the environment but they are mine not the ones pushed by the fake environment movements that just want money and power and not much else.
David A. Evans
I guess the Marine Debris department of NOAA hasn’t been Karlized yet.
This is about as non-alarming as one can get about the problem.
http://marinedebris.noaa.gov/info/patch.html
Anna,
Your reality is my social construction.