Finally, one of Gore's trained presenters debates a climate skeptic

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Finally … finally! … a person trained by Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project agreed to face off in a public debate on global warming.  As WUWT readers may know, trying to get one of these folks to debate a skeptic has been an impossible task…until now. Full video follows, running about 59 minutes.

While I don’t know the details, I suspect the video quality has to do with an apparent long standing policy of Gore’s presenters refusing to allow their presentations to be video taped. My impression is that this appears to be a clandestine recording made by an audience member.

From an email I received:

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Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project squared off against The Heartland Institute in a global warming debate January 8 in Tallahassee, Florida. More than 260 people attended the hour-long debate, which resulted in standing room only at the Tallahassee Elks Club Lodge, which hosted the debate.

Ray Bellamy, a Florida State University faculty member who gives public presentations on behalf of Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project, argued humans are causing a global warming crisis. Taylor countered that global warming activists have proven none of four important factors they need to show in order to demonstrate a human-induced global warming crisis.

“I am very happy that this debate is now available on the Internet so people can see the for themselves, without having to wade through media filters, who possesses and presents the best evidence in a fair and balanced debate,” said Taylor.

“I encourage people to watch the debate and then share it with friends, family and acquaintances. So long as people have access to the truth, I believe the truth will always prevail,” said Taylor.

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Source: Alyssa Carducci

The YouTube page says:

Heartland Institute Senior Fellow James Taylor debates Ray Bellamy, M.D., a Tallahassee Orthopedic Surgeon at the Elks Club Lodge at 276 North Magnolia Drive in Tallahassee, Florida on Jan. 8, 2013.

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cui bono

Thanks Anthony. No wonder the alarmists don’t like debating. In the closing remarks, after Taylor summarises the science, Bellamy just engages in a series of ad homs against Dr Soon and Dr Singer, and then admits what he had just claimed was a direct quote was ‘paraphrased’, to a chorus of boos from the audience. Epic fail!
A shame the bootlegged video ends at that point, but we may look forward to many more such debates in future. /sarc

HAHAHA! Typical “ad-hominim attacks” by the Gore-ite. Completely predictable and un-original.
To bad the audiance wasn’t as AGRESSIVE as the “Critical Thinking” Club group I was with about 2 years ago in MN. They had a presentation by a AWG “disciple”, a retired U of Wisc. meteorology professor. Although I and one other engineer asked some questions that clearly “sliced and diced” the man’s technical points, such that …as one observer said after the presentation, the retired Professor displayed the classic “Deer in the Headlights” look, a few times during said logical disections, the Critical Thinking Club member absolutely eviserated the fellow for the (expected) ad-hominim attacks on sources and personages who present cases counter to the Al Gore approved group-think.
Alas – the MOB versus Atlas! All I can do is shrug it off!

Jason Joice MD

As an Orthopaedic surgeon myself, I am embarrassed.

Jack Savage

Dr Bellamy’s closing remarks with their bitter ad homs and smears about Willie Soon and outright lies about Fred Singer tell you that even Dr. Bellamy thinks he has lost that debate hands down. These debates do not achieve much, in my opinion, but I do like the way in which James Taylor asks the audience to go out and look at the data and find out for themselves. Excellent.
Was there no “before and after” voting?

No wonder Gore sold out and cashed in…

No wonder Gore sold out and cashed in….

Jack

Jo Nova and David Evans debated Anna Rose, arch warmist for the ABC documentary. The documentary was to convince a senator Nick Minchin to the warmist case or Anna Rose to sceptics. Minchin is on record as saying threats from a warming globe are exaggerated.
Anna Rose could not understand anything David Evans said and her argument depended on the computer modelling and the specious reasoning of the precautionary principle as if that is some sort of magic castle.
The ABC refused to show the debate, only highly edited bits that attempted to reverse Evans opinion. They cut it to make it seem Anna Rose more than held her own, even when she was clearly out of her depth.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/12/abc-doco-uncut-evans-nova-minchin-and-rose-the-full-unedited-video-2521502.html

Mike Jowsey

No contest! Muahahahaha!!!!!!! OMG – the Ortho was a complete FAIL. Jason Joice, I get your embarrassment, but don’t sweat it. Some Orthos are just plain deluded and slow, like the rest of the population. Maybe he’s a great Ortho.
Mr. Taylor’s debate was fact-filled( peer-reviewed citations aplenty) , versus the emotion-filled anecdotes and ad-homs from the Old Guy. Quote of the debate was Mr. Taylor’s response to the Old Guy’s question (24:20) – “That’s the way it is”.
Brilliant. Understandable that they don’t want debate. Fail every time.

Mike Jowsey

Man I hate this WordPress BS. I submit a well-worded, carefully edited and double spell-checked response, and lo, I get a WordPress page asking me to log in. So I do. And then…..
… nothing.
No “awaiting moderation”, no “thank you”, just, an assumption that eventually the satellite will reappear from behind the moon and communication will be restored. So I am left wondering whether or not to re-engage in the hard labour of reconstructing my response from memory. Fix it!
[Reply: Not in the SPAM queue, so no idea. I’ve sometimes retrieved lost posts with the “back” or “forward” page option in the browser to pull up the pre-send page. Doesn’t always work, but sometimes. -ModE]

Charles.U.Farley

Sceptic- “Wheres the proof?.
Warmist, “ummm, ahh, urm, uh, deniers,big oil urm, urh, erm.”

Tiburon

Amazing. Never thought I’d see it head-to-head; – took an ‘ambush’, but great stuff!

Mike Jowsey

Anyhoo, now that I am logged in….
Quote of the week candidate could be “I don’t understand the question…” Josh has to do somrthing!

Lawrie Ayres

While it is cold in China it is a hot summer in Australia. Just like it usually is and just like usually happens when we have a few hot days and the accompaning fires Dr. David Karoly tells all who will listen that this is climate change in action. He makes similar statements when ever the weather supports the climate change meme. He fails to add that he is one of our climate commissioners (please don’t laugh. I feel bad as it is for having a government as crazy as ours) and is paid handsomely to promote the need for a carbon tax in order to save the planet. Medical doctors get debarred when they screw up and tell lies and so do lawyers. How come climate scientists can get away with crap????

Mike Jowsey says:
January 12, 2013 at 2:54 am
Man I hate this WordPress BS. I submit a well-worded, carefully edited and double spell-checked response, and lo, I get a WordPress page asking me to log in. So I do. And then…..
—- —-
It does happen. What I do these days is to merely copy my response then click ‘post comment’ and if word press pops up and the post disappears merely paste and try again.
If the post had already been accepted it will normally say something like ‘this post appears to be a duplication’ in which case there is no need to resubmit.
tonyb

Nearly an hour? Ok… I’ll be back ‘in a while’ 😉
Until then, um, wasn’t that Ka-Ching the sound of The Fat -um- Lady Singing?
How long before AlGore exits stage right or gets ejected by his dejected rejected ‘followers’ stage left?
I expect the best and brightest have already noticed the snow from the UK to Jordan and California to what was it, 65% of the USA?
And just think, only a half decade of steadily less solar help as this cycle ramps down.
Look for the remaining ‘dregs’ of the AlGore Traveling Salvation Show to be of ever lower quality and competence.
Ok, with that, off to video land for “a while”…

Otter

I thought Ralph Bellamy was an actor…. oh, Ray Bellamy?
Well, he’s still an actor. Apparently, in a bit role.

SAMURAI

James Taylor did a fine job debating his position and presenting the overwhelming evidence against CAGW. Dr. Bellamy was a bit of a disaster simply repeating the standard memes of: unstoppable positive feedback loops (not supported by empirical evidence), dangerous and rapidly increasing ocean rise (not supported by empirical evidence), current temps unprecedented (not supported), extreme weather incidence increasing (not supported), skeptics all in the pockets of oil companies (not supported)….
I could go on, but what’s the point. Dr. Bellamy did a poor job in trying to defend the indefensible CAGW theory.

Doug Huffman

WP does have some issues related to monetization of the Internet commons. I use OpenID Seatbelt from Symantec that WP has been unable to implement. Read Zittrain’s Future of the Internet – And How to Stop It.

“How come climate scientists can get away with crap????”
Because they are saying what their Government masters want them to say.
When it comes to aggrandizing Government power and control, adherence to reality and truth are the first casualties soon followed by the lives and fortunes of its citizens. Except for a few blinks of history when Government was held in check, It has always been thus. Why then are we surprised when Government acts as Governments have always acted? Climate catastrophe is simply the current excuse for such behavior.

commieBob

Lawrie Ayres says:
January 12, 2013 at 3:08 am
… Medical doctors get debarred when they screw up and tell lies and so do lawyers. How come climate scientists can get away with crap????

Scientists should be bound by the same rules that govern engineers.

My conclusion is that, if the analysis by climate scientists had been required to pass a typical engineering preliminary design review, the crisis theory would have never been passed on to the non-technical audience.

Burt Rutan http://www.iceagenow.com/Burt_Rutan_calls_AGW_a_Fraud.htm

Luther Wu

Dr. Bellamy, if you won’t bet $1000 that the world will actually warm as much as you say, will you bet $100? $10?
You emphasized that the population isn’t under control: would you like to expand on that statement?

JabbaTheCat

Lol…Bellamy well p0wned by Taylor…

milodonharlani

The effect on plant protein of increased CO2 depends on the concentration of the gas, environmental factors (such as soil moisture) & type of crop. Alfalfa, for instance, increases its protein content under elevated levels of CO2, while even a doubling from present concentration leaves soybean content about the same. Some other crops do suffer as much as 10-15% loss in protein content under a doubling of recent levels (700-800 ppm).
However, any such loss is more than compensated for by greatly increased yields, less water use & oxygen limitation. Furthermore, the increased crop bulk not used for food or feed still has energetic value, as does improved yields of forest fiber & other woody growth.

Joe

Sadly, for a lot of people (including most of that audience by the sound of it), the slow-speaking MD with his homespun anecdotes about lightning at football games will come across as far more trustworthy than the sharp executive type armed with facts.

Gene Selkov

“Metric tons are bigger than our tons” — so we’re supposed to be metric-scared, not our-scraed. Every little bit helps.

Brian H

Mike;
If you use FF on a PC, or Chrome, you can use an add-on called “Lazarus”, which saves every keystroke of every form Reply or Comment, along with the URL of said form. The file can be held for the default 14 minutes or much longer, and searched or used to recreate your exact posts, etc. I save mine for 54 weeks, but I may add a zero to that, since storage is so cheap.
I don’t know if it works on Macs, however. There was a version for Safari, but it’s withdrawn at present.
If you can use it, you will NEVER lose another post, regardless of WP’s peculiarities.

Birdieshooter

Ad homs from an AGW supporter? Who’da thunk it. It is so predictable. Why dont they wise up and realize that anyone on the fence and trying to give both sides the benefit of the doubt are going to be turned off by this non-intellectual tactic.

Brian H

P.S.;
The “recreation” I mentioned consists of either a click on a context menu option (from a right-click in the form itself), or a “Copy” of the DB entry, which you can then paste anywhere.

Don’t you think we should begin referring to “Climate Skeptics” as ” Climate Realists”

Loved this. I’m going to email it far & wide.

Brian H

James Taylor writes for Forbes, and is routinely harassed by Warmists for his assaults on the Consensus. He has learned to stay clam, clue, and corrected. Though he has issued, as he says, a license to respond to ad homs with sarcasm.

Brian H

typo: issued to himself

mbw

“My impression is that this appears to be a clandestine recording made by an audience member.”
You have out gleicked Gleick. Congratulations.

Mick Langan

Mike Jowsey says:
January 12, 2013 at 2:54 am
Man I hate this WordPress BS. I submit a well-worded, carefully edited and double spell-checked response, and lo, I get a WordPress page asking me to log in. So I do. And then…..

If you use Firefox, just get the Form History extension. It automatically saves all textareas for a week, so if you lose a submission you just go to the field, right click, find form history, and there you are.

Tim

I felt embarrassed on behalf of Mr Bellamy. Badly briefed, badly presented. When he said that a major issue of warming could be cancellation of ball games because of lightning strikes I inwardly curled up. I am no expert and take a contrary view to Mr Bellamy but I could have put a lot better argument together in support of dangerous C02 than he did.

David L

Joe on January 12, 2013 at 5:01 am
Sadly, for a lot of people (including most of that audience by the sound of it), the slow-speaking MD with his homespun anecdotes about lightning at football games will come across as far more trustworthy than the sharp executive type armed with facts.”
——————–
I thought the same!

pokerguy

All you guys cheerleading and crying victory…I find the audience reaction generally disgusting. This is what we’re up against, ignorance, anger, and closed minds. That clueless physician should have been laughed off the stage.

pokerguy

Just to add, once again that risible 97 percent canard is used to good effect. That the lie is so precious to these people is seen in the audience reaction when the cherished consensus meme is challenged. I can’t get any of the leading skeptics to talk to me about trying to conduct a survey of our own. NOt sure why. I simply can’t see how that’s not something worth trying. Anthony? I’d be glad to dg deeply into my own pockets to help fund such an endeavor. Multiply me by thousands and you can see that we could easily afford it. Why don’t we do it?

Chris H

With apologies to Dr Joyce:
An orthopaedic surgeon was seen approaching an elevator, the doors started to close just as he reached them. Bending forward he placed his head between the closing doors. “Why did you do that?” said a passing nurse. Holding his hands out, the orthopaedic surgeon replied, “I need these for my work!”
What’s the definition of a double-blind clinical trial? Two orthopaedic surgeons looking at an ECG (EKG for the N American readers)

Taylor wasted his question to Bellamy. The bet was a non-starter.
That being said, the debate was not educational in the sense that nothing new really materialized. One side presented facts and figures, and the other merely responded with ad hominems and innuendo. I can see why the GoreBull Warmists do not like to debate. They operate better when no one questions them and asks to see the man behind the curtain.

Otter

Joe says:
January 12, 2013 at 5:01 am
Sadly, for a lot of people (including most of that audience by the sound of it), the slow-speaking MD with his homespun anecdotes about lightning at football games will come across as far more trustworthy than the sharp executive type armed with facts.
=======
Unfortunately I am somewhat in agreement.
I recently put up those two charts, showing how the Met CRU changed their temperature forecast for the next fews years… within minutes, I had someone tell me ‘those charts have long since been debunked.’
…. seriously? Most people don’t have the First clue what is going on in the climate argument. That, despite our best efforts.

Joseph Bastardi

I dont understand why any debate should last more than 15 minutes. AGW proponents argue that co2 absorption of incoming radiation will lead to a positive feedback. Where is the physical proof of that given the immense magnitude of all the other factors involved? I know PHD’s who say that it could be a net coolant. Temperatures went on when we had an ice age at 7000ppm CO2. Point is, it’s either a non factor, or something that is so small its not worth the time or energy or economic cost. There is the problem. That would destroy an entire cottage industry in academics, and the economy. Perhaps generously we can say as many do that it may have some minute effect. But the sheer weight of other factors renders it almost useless. The 2nd item is simple presentation of sst and air temps against CO2, and then all the other facts (ex: heat trapping hot spots not showing up). Finally propose a test… where will global temps be in 2030, once we have had 20 years plus of cold pdo and cold amo. Force them to make a forecast that we can watch. This isn’t rocket science, though the other side wants to make it more complex than it is. Force them to defend and then compete, Its the last thing they want to do. I cant believe all this is still going on. Are we to believe if CO2 was not increasing then we would be heading into a natural variability ice age. Prove that this warming and feed back can take place beyond the magnitude of what this gas’s relationship to the entire system would lead one to believe. When you break it down, its amazing how small it really is not only to the air, but the entire ocean/land /air system..not even bringing in changes in solar which they also have ignored over the years. No wonder Bill Gray has used words like hoax and scam years ago.

Stephen Richards

My conclusion is that, if the analysis by climate scientists had been required to pass a typical engineering preliminary design review, the crisis theory would have never been passed on to the non-technical audience.
Steve Mc has been asking for this for maybe 5 or 6 years. No show !

Stephen Richards

I have to say that I don’t think this debate makes any difference. One that would, however, might be Slingo vs Lindzen or Betts vs Lindzen or Krugman vs Lindzen.
Holdren vs Lindzen with Oblarny at Holdren’s side. Yeh that’s the one. Ooh, add SteveMc with Lindzen to back him up.

troe

Thanks for posting this debate. We’ve seen others over the years and our side holds up well. Time is winning the science argument for us and we have seen some hope in the media coverage. The battle royal is in the government sphere where Gore, Markey, and others created a Frankenstien’s monster of funding that rolls on year-in-year out. This whole mess started as a battle over nuclear power in the US and UK. In 1977 when Gore entered Congress he was 100% pro-nuclear. They were building a massive nuclear plant in Hartsville, TN and like his father before him he was all for it. Just entering the workforce at that time I can tell you that the economic impact in Gore’s congressional district was a game-changer. The pushback was from enviromentalists and the then new Union of Concerned Scientists. The TVA had to make a decision nuclear vs coal. At first it appeared that Gore and nuclear had won. 12 plants were planned with several going into construction. Coal and the environmentalists teamed up to reverse the decsion. The nuclear plants in construction were stopped and new coal plants were built. Coal was happy but nuclear and environmentalist were not. The enviros wanted solar, wind, etc… nuclear wanted nuclear. It took 30 years and years of mumbo-jumbo but in 2009 the enviro’s and nuclear cut a deal to stop coal. It’s raw political power and buckets full of money. Science has always been a victim twisted and tortured until it said whatever was needed.

James Taylor

It is nice to see this video posted on you website, Anthony. In the days leading up to the debate, Bellamy kept referring to me as “the denier” and a number of activist groups engaged in a full-court press to turn out their members for the debate. As a result, approximately 70 percent of the audience consisted of environmental activists. Of course, if there is anything I enjoy more than exposing the weak evidence and weak thinking of an Al Gore-trained global warming activist, it is exposing the weak evidence and weak thinking of an Al Gore-trained global warming activist in front of 200 of his friends and supporters.
Truth for truth’s sake,
– James

Ronald

I am happy to say that whe have a new name.
From now on we are cold troll’s
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/you-idiot-course-trolls-comments-make-you-believe-science-less

RockyRoad

Stephen Richards says:
January 12, 2013 at 6:54 am

I have to say that I don’t think this debate makes any difference. One that would, however, might be Slingo vs Lindzen or Betts vs Lindzen or Krugman vs Lindzen.
Holdren vs Lindzen with Oblarny at Holdren’s side. Yeh that’s the one. Ooh, add SteveMc with Lindzen to back him up.

It isn’t the players that are being showcased as much as the argument. While it would be instructive to see your list of combatants face off, the scientific arguments are what really matter. An appeal to popularity is no more valid than an appeal to authority, which is one of the few ploys they have left, and according to public polls, is failing.

halftiderock

What is the motivation? I don’t know what it is now but in the 1970’s the political science majors had to take a science course and the most popular course was Nat Sci 10 given by Stephen Gould. They learned about the interstadial periods and at the same time the environmental movement was beginning to take hold and needed a compelling arguement.They were learning about Thermasoclese in their political science classes. My observation at the time was that they determined that the correlation between CO2 and the interstadial temperature, CO2 and methane offered by the interstadial narrative and Vostok Ice cores presented an exceptional political opportunity. The technique is amazingly powerful, and presented huge political windfalls, everything we are is carbon based. Using straight forward political science techniques they have been manipulating dependence on CO2 and the the global warming trend to make the argument that we must have some political control on anthropogenic contribution and by ceding this control and power to them humanity will be directed into a better result in the future through care of our environment.
In the final analysis when confronted with the data they would regress to the Thermastoclese dilemma.” Is it ethical to misrepresent the facts in order to get the Population to do the “right thing”.” Tey would say emphatically YES!.
Once we get into the political realm an ad homenum attack and misrepresentation is fair game, scientists on the other hand are in a different reality and are at a disadvantage because usually one’s imagination is much more fertile for creating fantasy and the truth is generally [pretty boring.
My take on the response to “What is the motivation.”

Go Home

james t,
Thanks for the video. Is there a chance you could post the presentation you had?
I also loved when the left tries shouting you down. I so dislike their non-science tactics.