Hurricane Sandy seems to have brought out the latent stupidity in just about everyone in their zeal to get in on the climate alarm resurgence. I laughed out loud when I read this op-ed in the NYT by DAVID CRANE and ROBERT F. KENNEDY Jr. published, December 12, 2012, because it becomes immediately obvious that these two “experts” don’t have a clue about how grid-tied solar actually works, and their ideas actually can cause deaths, injury, and additional property destruction if people try to follow their lead and then try to circumvent safety features when they find out their solar system won’t do what they claim. How embarrassing for them.
Excerpts:
[…]
Residents of New Jersey and New York have lived through three major storms in the past 16 months, suffering through sustained blackouts, closed roads and schools, long gas lines and disrupted lives, all caused by the destruction of our electric system. When our power industry is unable to perform its most basic mission of supplying safe, affordable and reliable power, we need to ask whether it is really sensible to run the 21st century by using an antiquated and vulnerable system of copper wires and wooden poles.
Some of our neighbors have taken matters into their own hands, purchasing portable gas-powered generators in order to give themselves varying degrees of “grid independence.” But these dirty, noisy and expensive devices have no value outside of a power failure. And they’re not much help during a failure if gasoline is impossible to procure.
Having spent our careers in and around the power industry, we believe there is a better way to secure grid independence for our homes and businesses. (Disclosure: Mr. Crane’s company, based in Princeton, N.J., generates power from coal, natural gas, and nuclear, wind and solar energy.) Solar photovoltaic technology can significantly reduce our reliance on fossil fuels and our dependence on the grid. Electricity-producing photovoltaic panels installed on houses, on the roofs of warehouses and big box stores and over parking lots can be wired so that they deliver power when the grid fails.
That last sentence in bold is my emphasis, because it shows just how clueless these people are when it comes to real world solutions. They want to give readers the impression that they can use their grid-tied solar power system after a storm to get electricity, I’m here to tell you that claim is absolute bunk.
Full disclosure. I have a grid tied solar power system on my home. I had one on my previous home, and I orchestrated the first ever solar power system for our local school district. I know a thing or two first hand from an engineering and use standpoint. Here’s my current home installation:
Top: the solar panels. Bottom: the DC to AC inverters and the grid tie and SmartMeter.
Note the red labels, particularly under the SmartMeter. They are required by law. The red one under the meter (along with the new yellow one added by the utility company after inspection for the grid tie certification) reads:
“Possible danger of electrical back feed” is the key phrase, one completely lost on the NYT, Kennedy, and Crane.
The issue is this, if you have grid tied power sources running in your neighborhood, and they are producing power, anyone who isn’t careful doing electrical work could get electrocuted thinking that after they pulled the main breaker, there is no power in the wires. Imagine if you have a bunch of these pumping power into power poles laying on the street after a storm; it becomes an instant fire starter.
But that’s been taken care of too, because the DC to AC inverters won’t function due to this (also required by law and code) safety feature built in. Here’s the relevant code from the inverter installation manual:
Electrical conformity according to U.S., Canadian and
international safety operating standards and code
requirements:
– UL 1741 – Standard for Inverters, Converters, and
Controllers for Use in Independent Power Systems
And this:
4.2 Protective concepts
The following monitoring and protective functions are
integrated in blue planet inverters:
– BiSI grid monitoring to protect against personal
injuries and avoid islanding effects according to UL 1741
What is “BiSI grid monitoring”? According to E DIN VDE 0126, which is a year 1999 standard developed in Europe specifically to address the problem:
The automatic disconnection device is used as a safety interface between the generator and the public low-voltage distribution net and serves as a substitute for a disconnecting switch accessible at all times by the distributing network operator. It prevents the unintentional supply of electrical energy from the generator into a subnetwork disconnected from the rest of the distribution grid (islanding), thereby offering additional protection to the measures specified in DIN VDE 0105-100 (VDE 0105-100), 6.2 to
– operating staff, against voltage in the disconnected subnetwork
– equipment, against inadmissible voltages and frequencies
– consumers, against inadmissible voltages and frequencies
– equipment, against the feed of faults by the generator.
In a nutshell, when the power poles go down, the inverters lose connectivity to the grid, sense this automatically, and shut themselves off.
Never mind the fact that grid-tied solar power doesn’t work at night when you need it most, never mind the fact that during and after the storm, solar insolation is drastically reduced due to rain and cloudiness, and never mind the fact that all electrical systems, solar or otherwise, are just as susceptible to storm damage as conventional power infrastructure, there is one important point that kills the entire idea.
Assuming the solar panels aren’t ripped off the roof by the hurricane/storm, they are of absolutely no use because the grid-tie is broken, and the mandated grid-tie safety features prevent the homeowner from using the inverters to get power locally.
You’d think “experts” like Kennedy and Crane would understand this basic concept…but they probably never got any closer to a solar power system than a photo op.
Some might claim that a battery backup with an automatic transfer switch might solve the issue. But, battery systems double to cost of most solar installations, and need to be replaced about every four years on average (for lead acid batteries, the most common solution), and they need to be maintained, checked, etc, plus require significant space. Compare all that to a $699 generator available from a local hardware outlet that has none of these problems and you’d understand why that is currently the solution of choice for most homeowners that want backup power after a storm.
Hopefully people following their lead for solar systems won’t try to hack their solar power system inverter safety features in time of crisis. The first person to try defeating this safety feature after a storm may get themselves or others killed or injured, either by electrocution or fire. Hopefully the solar power industry will join me in condemning this foolishness propagated by Kennedy and Crane.
h/t to WUWT reader Charles Carmichael for the NYT story link.
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This issue is not whether it is possible, or even sensible. The issue is the cost vs the benefit – a subject on which solar proponents are without a leg to stand on without lavish subsidies from everyone else.
I am second to nobody in my loathing for subsidised solar panels.
But the criticism above seems to be a bit overblown. Would it not be possible to come up with an intelligent switch that senses that the power grid has gone away and just routes the current internally, not externally.
I’m not an electrical engineer, but this doesn’t sound like rocket science to me.
andrewmharding says:
December 13, 2012 at 11:02 pm
I am in the NE of Uk too – and you are quite correct, the solar generation capacity in the UK has been far overblown and most folk have only had the panels installed to get paid exhorbitant FIT rates. In other words, these people are simply ripping off the normal consumers (via a government approved system!). I genuinely hope that the panels are less efficient and fail earlier than advertised and will be amused as they fail watch as they fail to recoup their greed inspired investment. Put it another way, I wonder how many of these folks are really green, and would have still paid the installation fees if there were no subsidy? Not many, I’ll wager!
The solar powered house I was at in Portugal had a battery system which only just about managed through the NH winter (i.e. stored pretty much as much as was used) and that was located some 10deg of latitude further south! I genuinely cannot see any benefit (other than the FIT !) from solar panels in the UK , and certainly not in the north!
I wonder if Kennedy has the home set up to run green. Or is he like Gore telling the rest of us what to do and doing the opposite?
Kev-in-Uk says: “…….I genuinely hope that the panels are less efficient and fail earlier than advertised and will be amused as they fail watch as they fail to recoup their greed inspired investment…….”
Anyone would think you have a dog in this fight. 😉
I live in the UK and consider those who rented their roofs to be fools. However, I sincerely want UK Solar panels to be successful because it means those who are really paying for this, ( all of us ) are going to suffer less.
For a house in Portugal with Solar panels to barely cover its electricity usage when houses in the UK do.. Now that’s an eye opener.
Mono crystalline panels with CE approval can now be bought for as little as ~400GBP per KWH (max). Adding in accessories, taxes and fitting with an approval certificate It must be 4x that.
Like the electric car it sounds expensive initially but consider this; The light in my living room had three 60W incandescent bulbs, (180W) for 15yr’s@ur momisugly~6hr/day. 10p/KWH = ~£550. Now my bulbs are 14W the effective cost is 10% of before. We are now ~15p/KWH so add half again. Energy costs are spiralling, the fuel wars are under way: Syria has 3 billion tonnes of shale oil and gas.
Solar panels are one of the best no-brainer investments there is if you are love and own where you live and financially a creditor. What Anthony has done to his house ….and driving an electric car is applauded by me.
Andyj:
I read your post at December 14, 2012 at 5:01 am.
It says you live in the UK and that you support solar panels, long-life light bulbs and electric cars.
OK. Knowing you support those things, I have a proposition for you.
Would you like to buy a bridge from me?
It is across the Thames in a very desirable location near the Tower in London.
Richard
@jim:
The use of “left” and “right” are broken terminology. It is functionally meaningless and has been turned into “politically correct” vs “evil people” in the MSM here. But even looking at it historically, they are broken terms.
In the beginning (French Revolution) it was what side of their parliament you sat on. Kings and Bishops (central power authorites) on The Right, petty businessmen an rabble (‘proletariat’) on The Left. Over time, when socialism came along, they got assigned to The Left. Somewhere indistinct after that, they tossed Businessmen over to “The Right” (and generally the church got forgotten…). Along came the “Third Way Socialists” (aka “Progressives” of the time) and they started on The Left. But there was this little “dust up” they had with the UK / USA and Russia. When Stalin announced that Der Fuhrer (and his National Socialists) were not Left enough to be good communists and pronounced them ‘Right wing’; as communists were for One International Socialism, and those guys wanted individual National Socialisms… (That, BTW, is how Der Fehrer and Mussolini ended up as “Right Wing”… they and their Progressive National Socialism are a smidgen to the right of ‘as far left as you can get’ in Communism…)
So how “sane” it is to use “right” and “left” when conservative busnessmen were on both sides at different times, and when Socialists, hard core Central Planning labor union loving public health care for all and origin of the Green Movement national Socialists were fobbed off as ‘right wing’ when they are kissing cousins of the Communist flavor of Socialism? (The only thing substantial about which they do not agree is “national” vs “international”… Stalin wanted to run the whole world..)
The correct axis is to use “Central Planning” as your metric vs “Liberty and decentralized choice”.
On that scale, the Evil Bastard King is on the same side as Der Fuhrer and Herr Commissar and the Tzar and Dear Leader and The Peoples Premier, and the EU Commissioner (or whatever they are called). On the other side is the free people with free markets, choice, and liberty. Decision making NOT centralized in The Federal Control Machine, but distributed to individual people, cities, counties, companies, and occasionally States. Self Organizing Systems.
That is simply not captured in the Left vs Right broken stereotypes used as cuss words.
Please don’t use this thread to start a “does so” / “did not” or “Is so” / “Is not” food fight over this. It’s been well researched and anyone who knows their history can see it. If you wish to complain that it doesn’t match a particular current bias, please read the links below first, and then take the discussion there if you feel compelled to plough ground already pulverized:
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/nationalist-socialists/
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/isms-ocracies-and-ologie/
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/some-quotes-on-socialism-and-fascism/
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/liberal-fascism/
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/fascist-doctrine/
Oh, and the word “Liberal” has been corrupted by the American Progressive Movement when they ran screaming from their endorsement of the Third Way National Socialisms of Europe that ended up in the W.W.II disaster. (Mussolini was beloved of American Progressives and Hollywood prior to that … even does a cameo in a Hollywood movie of the era.) As “Progressive” had become tarnished, they adopted “Liberal” (much to the chagrin of the actual traditional Enlightenment Liberals of the day… what we would call Libertarian now, or as close as we can get). That, BTW, is why the “Liberal” party in Commonwealth countries tends to be the Conservative party while in the USA it’s the “Socialism Lite” party (until recently when it became flat out Socialist. I’m not using that as a pejorative, BTW, but as a technical economic descriptor. I’m an economist who had to study socialism to get my degree… We are “Lange Type Socialism” at this point.)
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/i-am-a-liberal/
kind of lays that out. We have American Social Liberals and Europe / Australia New Zealand have Classical Liberals.
Oddly, now that “Liberal” has become tarnished in America, we had Madam Clinton trying to distance herself from it by saying “I am not a Liberal, I’m a Progressive!”… Apparently trusting that no one remembered history… And then Billy Clinton said his polices were not Liberal, they were “Third Way”… (both on tape, btw). Just Amazing… (Mussolini popularized the “Third Way”, FWIW, as a “third way to Socialism”… )
Again, please don’t hash that out here. It’s very Off Topic. Head over to my place as it is very much something we discuss there.
Back On Topic:
I once met a local State Senator who was a Kennedy Wannabe and hung out with them…. They came out to a morning balloon meet to see a Hot Air Balloon and take rides. So I got to see some of the Kennedy Clan up close along with this guy….
Most intelligent thing they said was, er, not that bright. We’ve already called it a “Hot Air Balloon” about a dozen times. We’ve just gotten it inflated and poured enough fire into it (about 8 foot tall flame thrower sized fire…) to be upright on the ground. The best and smartest thing they could come up with? “So, it uses hot air does it?”
Never saw so much posturing and preening with so little ‘inside the skull’ in one spot, before or since. IMHO, JFK was their shinning moment…
On Grid Stuff:
IMHO the best way to do it is have a battery bank and inverter to power the house. A nice fat plug plugs a charger into the wall power (240 VAC 3 phase in the garage). Solar panels charge the batteries too. (Charge controller, smart one, mixing the two chargers). Now you don’t have a ‘grid feedback’ to worry about. Just unplug if anything bad happens. Leave it plugged in when solar is below needs.
> In a nutshell, when the power poles go down, the inverters lose connectivity to the grid, sense this automatically, and shut themselves off.
Suppose power to a neighborhood is cut off. Suppose several buildings in the neighborhood have Solar PV systems and (at the moment) are producing all the power the neighborhood needs. How do the inverters realize that the grid power is lost? Change in power factor? Drift in the line frequency? The 99+% chance that even if load equals demand at the moment it won’t match in a few seconds?
What works great for a single installation or with a sizable difference between supply and demand sounds fraught with risk when scaled up.
Also – given that issue being addressed is survival through storms, and storms usually bring clouds, then there’s no chance that the neighborhood will be self powered when the grid connection fails. Then there’s no chance to repower the neighborhood without a lot of interesting new technology that connects the smarts of all the PV systems.
Andyj says:
December 14, 2012 at 5:01 am
No – no dog in the fight as such. But I know of several folk who rushed to get their panels before the FIT change deadline, etc – even borrowing the money to do it, on the basis of the ridiculous FIT being ‘guaranteed’. They were not being green, just greedy – thinking they were going to get something for nothing (a bit like the energy suppliers and their green investments!).
Re the Portugal property, the system was a good several years old, and only small (panel array was only about 2m x 1 m); it was a 24V system with an inverter to the house mains (no mains electric at all) IIRC, and a genny for higher demand use (e.g. washing machines, etc). But in winter, the solar was only really enough to provide capacity or the house lights and a fridge through the day/night, with not much else – (so the addition of a wind genny was made). I’m fairly sure a bigger array and more modern panels would be more efficient! Looking at it, the difference in latitude was actually about 18deg too!
I am actually in the process of acquiring a property to rebuild in Portugal and need to consider what to do re my energy needs (even though it does have mains electric at the moment) – so over the coming months I will be ‘reassessing’ the solar (and wind) cost/supply issues. Hopefully I will find that the modern gear is better than that I have used before!
If you want something that doesn’t have the hassles and short life of lead-acid, NiCd, etc. batteries, people are cranking up production of Edison’s FeNi batteries. They look to be a great choice for home systems, a couple people I know in NH are using them.
Very long life and low maintenance.
http://ironedison.com/
http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com/
_Jim says: December 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Ralph, I’M WILLING TO BET – we collectively in the USA have more nines (“9s”) in my (our) electric service ‘up-time’ than you do (referring to 99.99% ‘availability’ or up-time vs 99.999%) in your ‘European’ system …
__________________________________
I have not suffered a power outage in the UK since 1978.
I did get a cut in Belgium, but in mitigation apparently they were going through the trauma of having to generate their own electricity. Belgium was hooked into the German system and had had free electricity for 60 years, as WWII reperations. Bit of a bind having to actually pay for it yourself at last.
REPLY:Point: “Electricity-producing photovoltaic panels installed on houses” seems to clearly imply homeowner to me. OK let’s assume the local big box store/warehouse has live solar power, with the power pole infrastructure wrecked, how do you propose to get that power out to the neighborhood? – Anthony
Imply? Does the statement, “Heat producing boilers installed in houses.” imply that the homeowner does the work or simply point out where the equipment is being installed? Most heating supply vendors and equipment manufacturers won’t sell a boiler to someone without a plumbing license and the reason is liability so I wouldn’t expect a big box store to sell things like synchronizing power inverters directly to the public by any other means than a contracted installation service to minimize their liability exposure IMO.
(But hey, 240 VAC is child’s play compared to what I’ve whacked with over the years. And ain’t it ‘funny’ how you never seem to forget the different ways you got zapped ‘good’?)
In Wyoming, we often have very high winds. Our power lines are mostly above ground. The subdivision to the south of my home does have underground wiring. A few of the newer area do too. The change to underground sounds like a good idea, but cost and materials usage are very high. If one is going to demand the lights NEVER go out, perhaps we need a remedial lesson in real life? Also, I really don’t see solar panels hanging on in a hurricane. Even if you skipped the grid part and went with batteries and an inverter, the panels still have to stay on the house.
Anthony–thank you for a very clear explanation and pictures of what grid-tied solar looks and works like.
“Electricity-producing photovoltaic panels installed on houses, on the roofs of warehouses and big box stores and over parking lots can be wired so that they deliver power when the grid fails.”
I read the line to mean, the solar panels could provide power directly to the building the solar panels are associated with. Not that the solar panels could provide power to the grid when the grid failed.
The prior wording, “secure grid independence” is the key. Thus the line was meant to convey the use of Solar Panels as both a personal or private supplemental generator and as emergency generator. As such, the panels would be disconnected from the grid when grid power fails.
The only reason to normally (non-emergency) still be tied into the grid is to handle the peaks, and reduce the power storage requirements.
Latimer Alder says: “Would it not be possible to come up with an intelligent switch that senses that the power grid has gone away and just routes the current internally, not externally.”
They are called Transfer Switches. When grid power fails, the connection to the grid is broken, then a connection to your emergency power source is made. Transfer switches are also known as a break before make switch (or contactor).
There are also Smart Transfer Switches which will give priority to critical loads and rotate through non-critical loads to allow under-sized generators to pseudo do the job. Example: The switch is wired to keep your deep freeze, refrigerator, water well pump, plumbing heat-tape, and a few lights all powered. The switch would then cycle between central air and water heater. You might have the switched wired to run a stove or clothes dryer ‘one at a time’, and when those were not running the central air and water heater would get power ‘one at a time’.
Gunga Din at11:29 am, Dec. 13
In Washington State, it is illegal to operate a generator without an approved disconnect. Throwing the main breaker in your home does NOT reliably disconnect an emergency generator from the net. I suspect other states have the same type of law.
Larry Sheldon says: “I used to manage a fairly large computer center (back when a computer occupied most of two floors). We had a 250 KVA UPS”
A business baby UPS.
Lead-acid batteries generate hydrogen. The more batteries, the more H2.
Our power-plant emergency-lighting battery rack (250V DC) had to be in an enclosed building designed for the walls to move outward from an internal explosion and the roof collapse on & cover the rack.
****
Silver Ralph says:
December 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm
In Europe, we have not had wires on poles for more than 80 years, except in some really rural locations. I still cannot understand why ‘rich’ America, which suffers from many hurricane/tornado events, still insists on putting electrical wires on poles. Its so, well, 19th century.
****
Your “european” solution is inappropriate and unnecessarily expensive in most of the US other than urban areas. I pay $0.06 /KWH w/only rare outages. How ’bout you?
Great point Anthony! And – you have the engineering and practical experience that give you the authority to provide informed comment.
I suggest a short, concise letter to the WSJ editors to expose their flawed thinking. Something along the lines of
“Sirs: even if the solar panels survive the windstorm AND the clouds part – there are regulations that prohibit transmission yadda yadda. It isn’t all that simple really”
As a resident of Houston, my desired back-up in a natural gas-fied generator with an automatic cut-off. Next house.
_Jim says:
December 13, 2012 at 7:17 pm
###
I haven’t looked at any of those site in quite awhile, so I am not sure. But if you really would like me to give an example of the difference, I think I can.
Bill O’Reilly tends to be a Right-Wing Socialist. Hannity tends to be more of a Conservative.
Before Marxists highjacked the term, the antithesis of Socialism was liberalism ( which is different then libertinesm). Anyone who supports the idea that it is the role of government to drive society is a socialist, a breed that has existed since before history. (The idea that socialism is an economic theory is just a resent smoke screen to hide what the socialist true goal is.) The only term that is left to use in American English to describe those who oppose this is Conservative. The Right-winger is a Socialist created straw man that people are foolish enough to partially buy into, if they happen to object to the Lefty agenda. They don’t know any different. Any examination of the anatomy of the strawman will reveal that it is just a socialist coming from a different direction. BTW, I figured this stuff out on my own before there was an internet, before Rush Limbaugh, … before the Dark Times, so I am not picking it up from some blogger. Its the product of my own analysis and experiments.
To those how are not electrically aware:
If you do not ‘use’ the output of the panel/invertor it is not dumped into resistors etc, it is simply not used. You can have 240VAC or 120VAC produced all the time, if you do not switch on your heater, the take no current, it remains available till you need it (or darkness falls)
Anti islanding is where the invert is continually checking whether the grid is up and running. If it finds the grid has failed, it switches off its output to the grid. It can do this checking in many ways,
it can inject pulses of current into the grid for a microsecond, if current flows, the grid is there. It could also alter the inverter frequency for one cycle only and measure the current change, if it does, the grid is their fighting back, if the current does not change, the grid is down.
All of the installations my friends have in the UK are grid tied, and the invert is wired in such a way that all of the AC wiring is on the electrical ‘suppliers’ side of the installation, any change to this is a prison sentence in the UK.
Here is a snip from a US report:
http://energy.sandia.gov/wp/wp-content/gallery/uploads/121395.pdf
which details issues of connecting solar pv to the grid.
It clearly states that a requirement exists disconnect from the grid when the grid fails.
“The mandatory inverter disconnect from the grid requirement as part of IEEE Std. 1547 will
likely be the source of grid instability as PV capacity grows. With higher penetrations of PV,
utilities will value allowing PV and other inverter-based DG to ride through voltage sags or
frequency disturbances. This is not possible with the stringent under/over voltage and under/over
frequency tripping of PV inverters used today or with the present active anti-islanding
requirements. These restrictive voltage or frequency trips can cause distributed PV to disconnect
at a time when their continued operation would provide high value generation to the host utility.
Thus, using stringent OV/UV and OF/UF settings to improve the detection of and response to
line faults and loss of grid connectivity has limited the ability of PV to provide high value to the
grid. Similarly, the active anti-islanding requirements are an impediment to DG based
microgrids”
Most people here have missed the point entirely.
It doesn’t matter if Kennedy is a moron and is totally clueless about the science and engineering behind solar energy. This guy has managed to score 1.4 Billion (THAT’S “BILLION” WITH A “B,” or ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED MILLION if you like) in taxpayer guaranteed loans for his solar energy company “BrightSource,” from the Obama administration. The taxpayer bailout was made after struggling BrightSource went 1.8 bilion in debt in 2010. (See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062638/JFKs-nephew-received-1-4bn-taxpayer-bailout-struggling-green-energy-firm.html). Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus and he lives in the White House. Guess it pays to be well-heeled, well-connected, and to have the last name of “Kennedy.”
It has been estimated that the BrightSource energy project currently being built in California will produce solar power that costs THREE to FOUR TIMES what power from conventional energy sources will cost. (See http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2012/11/brightsource-responds-to-la-times.html) Who do you think will subsidize those increased energy costs? Yep. That’s right. It will be the good folks in California along with the rest of the US.
As of November 9, 2012, BrightSource continued to struggle and was seeking to raise yet another 140 million dollars from investors. Keep in mind that no electricity has yet been produced from this boondoggle. I WOULD NOT BET AGAINST this company going belly up in another year or so after hoovering up millions in taxpayer dollars. The name “BrightSource” will be added to the long list of names of failed green energy companies that include such illustrious concerns as Solyindra. I suspect that Kennedy, and the others surrounding him will walk away from this mess after pocketing some nice salaries courtesy of the US taxpayer. That money will have come from rich and poor alike, both Democrats and Republicans. No doubt, some of it will be recycled back into the campaign of the next un-vetted, Chicago machine politician to be offered up to the electorate as a “hope and change” solution to our problems.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! Of course Robert Kennedy is going to promote solar energy any chance he gets, whether he knows anything about it or not. Get a clue about what is happening. We are nothing but milk cows for a bunch of (frankly inferior) parasites. This is our country, and we need to take it back.
I have been a solar panel installer. The power inverters that convert the dc power into useable ac power can not be fooled into turning on after the grid goes down. You would think that maybe by hooking up your gasoline generator to the inverter then maybe the inverter would be fooled that it is ok to turn on? Nope. Don’t believe me? Call the inverter company Fronious and tell them you want to produce power with the 40,000$ worth of solar panels you just installed so after a storm when there is no power you can still have power. You will have to buy the type of inverter/charge controller to charge up batteries, then use the voltage from the batteries to supply the inverter, which in turn supplies power for you house. Without the electrons from either the grid or batteries you will be sitting in the dark.
My 10kw Generac system is the same way. When power is lost, the generator kicks in within 10 seconds or so. When power comes back, the generator stays on for another minute or so before switching back to grid power, probably to prevent a quick on/off in an unstable power situation. No gasoline or diesel, though, runs on Propane. I have to top the bottle off once a year or so for the handful of annual outages.