Is the Current Global Warming a Natural Cycle?

Guest post by W. Jackson Davis and Peter Taylor

We were delighted to see the paper published in Nature magazine online (August 22, 2012 issue) reporting past climate warming events in the Antarctic similar in amplitude and warming rate to the present global warming signal. The paper, entitled “Recent Antarctic Peninsula warming relative to Holocene climate and ice-shelf history” and authored by Robert Mulvaney and colleagues of the British Antarctic Survey (Nature, 2012, doi:10.1038/nature11391), reports two recent natural warming cycles, one around 1500 AD and another around 400 AD, measured from isotope (deuterium) concentrations in ice cores bored adjacent to recent breaks in the ice shelf in northeast Antarctica.

Public media in the U.S., including National Public Radio (NPR), were quick to recognize the significance of this discovery. The past natural warming events reported by Mulvaney et al. are similar in amplitude and duration to the present  global warming signal, and yet the past warmings occurred before the industrial revolution and therefore were not caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gases. The present global warming cycle lies within the range of these past natural warming cycles, suggesting that the present global warming cycle may be of natural origin and not caused by human activity–as climate skeptics have been arguing for some time.

A couple of years ago we performed a similar but more extensive analysis of the historical temperature record from the ice core data obtained from the Vostok site in the Antarctic, not far from the ice core evaluated in the recent Mulvaney et al. Nature paper. We defined a NWE as a monotonic  increase in temperature encompassing at least three consecutive Vostok temperature data points and terminated by at least one temperature data point less than the peak reached during the NWE. We found 342 natural warming events (NWEs) corresponding to this definition, distributed over the past 250,000 years at apparently irregular intervals (though we have not analyzed for subtle regularities, which may exist). The 342 NWEs we identified by this method are reminiscent of the two more recent NWEs reported in the Mulvaney et al. paper.

Figure: Time series showing temperature anomaly (temperature difference from the recent past) during the final segment of the Vostok paleoclimate ice core record (the Holocene) in which conterminous proxy temperature and carbon dioxide measurements are available. Each arrow designates the peak temperature reached during a natural warming event (NWE). Blue arrows and font identify the peaks of low-rate warming events (LRWEs; < 0.74oC/century), while red arrows and font designate the peaks of high-rate warming events (HRWEs; > 0.74oC/century). In each case the first number associated with each arrow is the exact YBP at which the indicated NWE began, while the symbol # designates the number of the NWE in ascending chronological order, which permits cross-referencing of each peak with corresponding data in the accompanying table.

The 342 NWEs contained in the Vostok ice core record are divided into low-rate warming events (LRWEs;  < 0.74oC/century) and high rate warming events (HRWEs; ≥ 0.74oC /century) (Figure). Warming rates of NWEs were calculated as the peak amplitude (oC) divided by the duration (centuries).The threshold for HRWEs of 0.74oC /century is useful because this is the estimated rate of the current global warming event according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Of the 342 NWEs in the Vostok record, 46 are high-rate warming cycles (HRWEs). The mean warming rate of these recurrent HRWEs is approximately 1.2oC per century,  the mean amplitude is 1.62oC, and the mean duration of the warming phase is 143.8 years. For comparison, the current warming rate estimated by the IPCC is about 0.74oC/century, the current amplitude so far is about 1oC, and the current duration to date is 197 years. The current global warming signal is therefore the slowest and among the smallest in comparison with all HRWEs in the Vostok record, although the current warming signal could in the coming decades yet reach the level of past HRWEs for some parameters. The figure shows the most recent 16 HRWEs in the Vostok ice core data during the Holocene, interspersed with a number of LRWEs. Note the highest rate of warming beginning at 8,226 YBP, near the beginning of the agricultural revolution (taking into account the north-to-south hemispheric phase lag or climate see-saw).

Each of the 46 HRWEs contained in the 400,000-year Vostok temperature record is shown in the Table along with its time of onset, peak amplitude, duration, and mean warming rate. The 16 HRWEs shown in the Figure can be cross-referenced to the corresponding Table entries using the time of HRWE onset. The original Vostok temperature data are accessible to anyone with internet access, and can be downloaded free of charge from the World Paleoclimatology Data Center website operated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of the U.S. (NOAA). The easiest and quickest way to confirm our results is to select any HRWE in the Table, locate the corresponding time in the published Vostok temperature record, and measure the subsequent warming event using the operational definition of NWEs we adopted. Cross-referencing the Figure with the Table provides such confirmation for the most recent 16 HRWEs.

Table: Compendium of high-rate natural warming (HRWEs) events in the Vostok temperature record in chronological order. A natural warming event (NWE) is defined as a temperature increase of at least 0.38oC consisting of at least two consecutive increases in temperature followed by at least one decline in temperature from the peak reached.

Natural Warming Event # (HRWE) Time of Onset(Years Before Present) Amplitude (oC) Duration (Years) Warming Rate(oC/century)
1 234,984 4.99 573 0.871
2 131,506 2.60 256 1.016
3 129,486 3.09 162 1.907
4 126,851 1.33 102 1.304
5 122,064 0.96 113 0.850
6 119,221 0.89 120 0.742
7 118,796 1.46 120 1.217
8 103,205 1.17 132 0.886
9 102,942 1.22 130 0.938
10 102,117 0.89 65 1.369
11 98,712 1.24 140 0.886
12 97,439 1.11 145 0.766
13 94,164 1.72 138 1.246
14 93,615 1.17 147 0.796
15 92,897 1.14 138 0.826
16 90,128 1.99 155 1.284
17 87,482 1.37 140 0.979
18 82,352 2.31 139 1.662
19 81,381 1.16 141 0.823
20 80,173 2.72 153 1.778
21 79,557 1.17 155 0.755
22 78,437 2.97 160 1.856
23 74,651 2.18 167 1.305
24 71,905 1.32 162 0.815
25 45,315 1.47 176 0.835
26 44,800 1.29 166 0.777
27 43,619 1.26 155 0.813
28 28,420 1.33 173 0.769
29 24,363 1.52 177 0.859
30 12,323 1.41 179 0.788
31 12,087 0.90 114 0.789
32 10,315 1.82 97 1.88
33 9,782 1.36 147 0.93
34 9,396 1.08 144 0.75
35 8,811 1.15 95 1.21
36 8,226 2.93 91 3.22
37 6,823 1.65 146 1.13
38 6,385 1.87 98 1.91
39 6,004 1.18 95 1.24
40 4,880 1.39 94 1.48
41 3,778 1.28 132 0.97
42 3,511 1.13 89 1.27
43 3,289 0.76 88 0.86
44 2,980 1.99 133 1.50
45 2,760 1.95 90 2.17
46 1,585 1.66 84 1.98

We submitted these findings sequentially to Science Magazine, Nature, and Nature Climate Change. The editor of Science Magazine replied that the results were not of sufficient general interest, suggested we submit the work to a specialty journal, and declined to proceed with external scientific review.  Nature also rejected the paper without external scientific review, for reasons that we considered spurious.  Nature Climate Change initially rejected the paper, but after some discussion the paper was assigned to a senior editor and reviewed by two anonymous reviewers. Given the context of their comments, both reviewers appeared to be climate modelers.

The Nature Climate Change reviewers concluded that the natural warming cycles we identified in the Vostok record could not possibly be real or significant, but instead represented irrelevant statistical “noise” in the temperature record. We replied respectfully that the warming events we detected and measured are similar to or larger than many well-accepted temperature fluctuations in ice core records, including Dansgaard-Oeschger oscillations, Heinrich events, and Antarctic Temperature Maxima. Indeed, the Vostok HRWEs are similar to or larger than the present global warming signal. These arguments were ignored by the reviewers, however, and the paper was rejected by the chief editor of Nature Climate Change.

As written in our rejected paper two years ago, if the current global warming event has the same underlying cause as the 342 previous similar NWEs spread over the preceding 250,000 years–and we can think of no obvious scientific reason to think otherwise–then based on the statistical properties of all natural warming events in the Vostok record, the current global warming event will reverse by 2032 with 68% probability and by 2105 with 95% probability. If the current warming event is homologous with a HRWE, climate reversal and global cooling are already overdue. Here is how we put it in our rejected paper.

” ….the estimated rate of contemporary global warming (0.74oC/century)2 lies well within the range of temperature increases exemplified by NWEs in the Vostok paleoclimate record. More than 13% of Vostok NWEs exceeded this estimated contemporary warming rate. The mean warming rate over all Vostok HRWEs (x̄ = 1.195oC/century, Table) exceeded the estimated contemporary global warming signal2 by nearly two-thirds (61.5%), while the highest rate of natural warming (3.22oC/century; 8,226 to 8,135 YBP) exceeded the rate of the current warming signal by 435%. Most of the Vostok HRWEs occurred during recent warm periods when temperature was similar to the contemporary global temperature. Therefore, the properties of the contemporary global warming signal2are consistent with a natural climate variation homologous to the Vostok HRWEs. In this case, and assuming that the contemporary period of global warming began in 181530, global temperature is projected with 68.2% confidence to peak and begin declining toward pre-industrial levels by 2032 (1,815 years + mean HRWE duration of 144 years + 1 s of 73 years, Table; confidence limit associated with 1 s), and is projected with 95.4% confidence to peak and begin to decline by 2105 (1,815 + mean HRWE duration + 2 s, Table; confidence limit associated with 2 s).”

In the middle of the editorial review by Nature Climate Change, the senior editor in charge of our paper abruptly and inexplicably ceased working for the journal.  We were notified of this change by an automated “no longer working here” response to a routine e-mail from us.  We were advised later that responsibility for our paper had been transferred to the Chief Editor of Nature Climate Change, who issued the final rejection. A few weeks later, the climate journalist Christopher Booker wrote an opinion piece in the Sunday Times of London to the effect that Nature magazine continues to reject scientific findings if they contradict the prevailing anthropogenic global warming hypothesis. We have no way of knowing whether or how the departure of the Nature Climate Change editor or the Sunday Times article was related to the rejection of our paper.

We hasten to disclose that the central thrust of our paper dealt with climate (temperature) sensitivity to atmospheric carbon dioxide, and not with natural warming cycles, which we used simply as a tool to explore climate sensitivity. We developed a new method for analyzing climate (temperature) sensitivity to atmospheric carbon dioxide based on analysis of NWEs and their responses to naturally-varying atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, and found that the climate (temperature) sensitivity to atmospheric carbon dioxide is far less than currently-accepted estimates. The Nature Climate Change reviewers rejected this conclusion for the same reason as above, however, namely their assertion that the NWEs we identified are irrelevant climate “noise.”

It is encouraging that in light the Mulvaney et al. paper the editors and reviewers of the Nature Publishing Group apparently no longer consider these natural warming events in ice core records as irrelevant climate “noise.” Among other implications, this change in editorial interpretation and practice opens a new avenue for analysis of ice core data and a new method for demonstrating that in historic terms, the current global warming cycle is far from exceptional. It appears to us that the current global warming signal lies well within natural limits. In this case, it seems to us difficult to argue that the current global warming signal is the result of human activity.

We invite free and unrestricted duplication and use of the Figure and Table with appropriate credit to the source.

W. Jackson Davis and Peter Taylor

Dr. Davis is Emeritus Professor of Biology, University of California at Santa Cruz, Emeritus Professor and founding director of the International Environmental Policy Program at the Monterey Institute of International Studies, and President and Chief Executive Officer of the Environmental Studies Institute, a charitable organization headquartered in Boulder, Colorado, U.S.A. Peter Taylor is senior science and policy analyst for the charitable organization Ethos and author of “Chill: A reassessment of global warming theory.”

This paper is also available in PDF form here: Davis and Taylor WUWT submission

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September 6, 2012 4:07 am

The paper’s Figure 4 shows the Roman Warm period (about 3.5C), the Medival Warm period (about 3.5C), and the Little Ice Age (about -1.8C) were truely global even reaching the Bellingshausen sea beside the Antarctic peninsula. That graph also shows that the warming near year 2000 (about 1.6C) has not shown the expected ‘bulk of the warming at the poles’ effect.
Interesting.
Link to the Nature paper:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v489/n7414/full/nature11391.html
John M Reynolds

Solomon Green
September 6, 2012 4:39 am

Peter Lilley read physics and economics at Cambridge and before he became and MP was considered to be the best oil analyst in the City of London. He certainly knows about that of which he is talking but he may have had to trim his sails in order to get a hearing.
As apparently did Mulvaney, when talking about his Nature article, who is quoted in the following:
” ‘What we see in the ice core temperature record is that the Antarctic Peninsula warmed by about 6°C as it emerged from the last Ice Age. By 11,000 years ago the temperature had risen to about 1.3°C warmer than today’s average and other research indicated that the Antarctic Peninsula ice sheet was shrinking at this time and some of the surrounding ice shelves retreated,’ says Dr Robert Mulvaney from the British Antarctic Survey, lead author of the study.
The warming demonstrated by Mulvaney and his colleagues suggests that loss of ice shelves is at least partially down to changes in the climate driven by man’s activities.
‘What we are seeing is consistent with a human-induced warming on top of a natural one,’ Mulvaney told News24.”

richardscourtney
September 6, 2012 7:32 am

Phil’s Dad:
I agree with everything you say in your post at September 6, 2012 at 3:48 am.
However, I repectfully write to ask that you don’t spend time telling us but, instead you use that time to tell your colleagues in Parliament.
Richard

markx
September 6, 2012 7:52 am

Arvind says: September 5, 2012 at 2:01 pm
“Is the Current Global Warming a Natural Cycle? No.”
You just can’t argue with the beautiful simplicity and peace of mind which must come with that sort of blind, all knowing, deep, fervent faith, can you.

Doug H
September 6, 2012 9:25 am

Re: richardscourtney September 5, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Richard,
Unfortunately, I do not have the expertise to evaluate whether the results published in this blog mean anything or not. (Do you?) Thus, I am inclined, given the stated publication history, to agree with the experts who did review the work. I have chosen to not comment on an analysis that has in my opinion little weight because it has not only not been published, but has been rejected by referees as wrong. There is a huge amount of published data to get through…
And no, I do not have a crystal ball. Neither do you. But what I do know is that there is a ton of published evidence that suggests we may be at the beginning of a catastrophic change in climate that is at least being worsened by human activity. Even if this is more likely false than true, even if it has only a very small chance of being true, the potential harmful effects are massive. Therefore, it seems reasonable and humane to apply the precautionary principle. Sooner or later fossil fuels are going to run out, so why not just bite the bullet now, convert to other energy sources as fast as practical, and perhaps stop a catastrophe while we’re at it?
d

Doug H
September 6, 2012 9:37 am

Re: Paolo September 5, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Every journal publishes papers that are wrong to varying degrees, many (possibly even most) of them completely wrong. I would agree that Nature, Science, and other general interest journals sometimes let things slip through the cracks hat may have been caught by specialist journals, probably because they don’t always know the most appropriate referees (depending on the expertise of the handling editor). On the other hand, they typically demand a more thorough investigation because it is often (but not always) a major part of the ‘story’, or what makes the paper interesting to scientists in unrelated specialties.
The vast majority of submissions to high impact journals such as Nature & Science are rejected by the editors prior to review. Typically, if you hope your manuscript may be strong enough for Nature (etc.), you submit there, and once it is rejected you submit to a lower-tier specialized journal. Sometimes you have to keep going down a few tiers to get past the editors.
In this case, the manuscript apparently was (after some cajoling) sent to peer review in Nature Climate Change, a top-tier specialty journal. Nothing to complain about there. But it was rejected by the referees, based apparently on (what they judged to be) faulty statistical analysis. It is impossible for me to evaluate whether the referees were correct or not because (1) I am not qualified to do (I am not a climate science specialist) and (2) even if I were, the authors have not reported sufficient details of their methods or data to this blog.
In my judgement, the fact that the analysis was rejected by specialist referees and was not fixed up and published in an appropriate journal makes the evidence presented here extremely weak.
Finally, your assertion that peer review amounts to nothing more than cronism [sic], by which I assume you mean intellectual dishonesty, smacks of conspiracy theory. It seems like a convenient way to justify to ignoring whatever evidence one doesn’t like but a poor way of finding the truth.
d

Doug H
September 6, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Kasuha September 5, 2012 at 1:34 pm
I don’t know what you’re referring to about “sole proof”, but that’s not how science works. There is just evidence and the evaluation of evidence (so-called preponderance of evidence).

richardscourtney
September 6, 2012 10:24 am

Doug H:
Please remember that this is WUWT: it is not some warmist ‘echo chamber’.
There is a wide range of expertise here and you can expect to be challenged if you post twaddle. All of us can be wrong and we can expect to be informed when we are mistaken (as I was in this thread: see my post at September 5, 2012 at 3:30 pm): thus we learn (which is why many of us engage here).
I am replying to your post at September 6, 2012 at 9:25 am where you ask me:
“Unfortunately, I do not have the expertise to evaluate whether the results published in this blog mean anything or not. (Do you?)”
I answer, I know you don’t (it is obvious from your posts) and, yes, I do.
With regard to the remainder of your post, I am a member of the Editorial Board of a peer-reviewed technical journal so I am fully aware of the nature and practices of peer review. And, on the basis of your posts on this thread, I would be very surprised if you were as familiar with the pertinent literature as I am.
Importantly, the precautionary principle says exactly the opposite of what you suggest. I explain this as follows.
1.
We know for certain fact that constraining the use of fossil fuels will kill many people. The effects would be worse than the oil crisis of the 1970s because the constraints would need to be more severe, energy use has increased since then, and the constraints would be permanent. Indeed, people need energy to live and human population is most conservatively estimated to peak at 2.6 billion more than now near the middle of this century. Those extra people need energy to live, so constraining energy use at its present level would kill billions of people, mostly children. And the ONLY sources of the needed energy are fossil fuels and nuclear power. The major increase has to be in fossil fuel use because not everything can be powered from the end of a wire.
2.
Discernible man-made global warming is a conjecture that has no supporting evidence of any kind and is denied by much empirical evidence. However, it has been emulated using computer models which have not been validated and have yet to demonstrate any predictive skill.
3,
The precautionary principle says we should not accept the risks from the inevitable horrors of constraining fossil fuel use on the basis that there is a conjecture which has no supporting evidence but has been described by computer games.
Richard

Doug H
September 6, 2012 10:27 am

Re: D. J. Hawkins September 5, 2012 at 3:06 pm
Mulvaney et al. do not discuss high rate warming events (HRWEs). As I said, I’m no climate scientist, but I looked and can find no mention of HRWEs in searches of PubMed, Google Scholar, or even Google (other than this blog). I suspect that HRWEs are just an arbitrary analysis invented by Davis and Taylor, which they then applied to someone else’s data (“ice core data obtained from the Vostok site”). Based on their rejection by the referees, HRWEs may not be a particularly powerful analytical tool. (But again, they have not provided enough detail to determine if this is the case.)
It’s a real shame that you can’t access the Nature article. All scientific publications should be open access. Well, at least we are slowly moving in that direction. Maybe you can access it via your local community or university library?
In lieu, here’s a summary. (NB. You can see thumbnails of the figures at http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v489/n7414/full/nature11391.html .)
Mulvaney et al. drilled their own ice core in an region of particular interest because it is warming exceptionally quickly and because of recent ice sheet collapses (James Ross Island). The 363.9-m-long core “extends into the last glacial interval (Fig. 2, Methods Summary and Supplementary Fig. 1). Evidence of the glacial age ice is found in the final 5 m of the JRI ice core; initial estimates suggest the record may extend to ~50,000 yr BP (by convention, 0 yr BP means AD 1950).”
They did a temperature reconstruction to >14,000 yr BP. They found:
“The Holocene temperature history from the JRI ice core is characterized by an early-Holocene climatic optimum that was 1.3 ± 0.3 °C warmer than present (Fig. 3).”
(“Early-Holocene” appears to mean ~12,000 – 10,000 yr BP, based on Fig. 3.)
“Following this widespread early-Holocene climate optimum, temperature on the Antarctic Peninsula decreased and the JRI ice core documents a long interval of stable climate that persisted from ~9,200 to 2,500 yr BP (Fig. 3). During this interval, the mean temperature anomaly, of 0.2 ± 0.2 °C, indicates that conditions at JRI were comparable to the warm conditions observed at this site over recent decades. ”
“The late-Holocene development of ice shelves fed from the northeastern Antarctic Peninsula seems to be related to millennial-scale climate variability in the region (Figs 3 and 4a). After 2,500 yr BP, the JRI isotope record documents pronounced cooling to temperatures that were on average 0.7 ± 0.3 °C cooler than present between 800 and 400 yr BP (AD 1150–1550), and on a decadal timescale temperatures may have at times been more than 1.8 ± 0.3 °C cooler than present. ”
“Sustained warming at JRI began ~600 yr ago (Fig. 4a). Lake sediments from Beak Island in Prince Gustav Channel also indicate warming beginning at ~AD 141018, and together these records demonstrate the absence of a widespread Little Ice Age signal on the Antarctic Peninsula that was comparable to Northern Hemisphere climate22 (Fig. 4a). The overall rate of pre-anthropogenic temperature increase at JRI from AD 1400 to AD 1850 equates to 0.22 ± 0.06 °C per century. However, there are times in this interval when warming occurred much faster. Using annual-resolution data, trends were calculated for the JRI temperature record since 2,000 yr BP over moving 100-yr intervals stepped in 1-year increments (yielding 1,958 100-year analysis windows) (Fig. 4b). This analysis indicates that rapid warming trends exceeding 1.5 °C per century occurred at JRI during the intervals spanning AD 1518–1621 and AD 1671–1777, and that trends exceeding 1.25 °C per century occurred during the interval AD 296–415.
Over the past 100 yr, the JRI ice-core record shows that the mean temperature there has increased by 1.56 ± 0.42 °C (Fig. 4a). This ranks as one of the fastest (upper 0.3%) warming trends at JRI since 2,000 yr BP, according to the moving 100-yr analysis windows, demonstrating that rapid recent warming of the Antarctic Peninsula is highly unusual although not outside the bounds of natural variability in the pre-anthropogenic era (Fig. 4b). The JRI ice core shows that the recent phase of warming on the northern Antarctic Peninsula began in the mid 1920s and that over the past 50 yr the temperature has risen at a rate equivalent to 2.6 ± 1.2 °C per century. Repeating the temperature trend analysis using 50-yr windows confirms the finding that the rapidity of recent Antarctic Peninsula warming is unusual but not unprecedented.
The long-term climate history provided by the JRI ice core shows that natural millennial-scale climate variability has resulted in warming on the eastern Antarctic Peninsula that has been ongoing for a number of centuries and had left ice shelves in this area vulnerable to collapse during the recent phase of rapid warming. If warming continues in this region, as is suggested by its attribution in part to rising atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations7, 23, then temperatures will soon exceed the stable conditions that persisted in the eastern Antarctic Peninsula for most of the Holocene. The association between atmospheric temperature and ice-shelf stability in the past demonstrates that as warming continues ice-shelf vulnerability is likely to progress farther southwards along the Antarctic Peninsula coast to affect ice shelves that have been stable throughout the Holocene, and may make them particularly susceptible to changes in oceanographic forcing24.”
Over and out, got work that needs doing. Best of luck,
d

richardscourtney
September 6, 2012 10:38 am

Doug H:
At September 6, 2012 at 10:27 am you say;
“As I said, I’m no climate scientist, but I looked and can find no mention of HRWEs in searches of PubMed, Google Scholar, or even Google (other than this blog).”
Clearly, you have not read the article and not read the subsequent thread. If you had done either then you would not have bothered to make your searches.
Please read the article and the thread before making further posts to the thread.
Richard

Doug H
September 6, 2012 1:54 pm

Richard,
I did read the blog article. You missed my point entirely. If you had read the post I was replying to, maybe it would make more sense to you. (Also, if you had read my comments that Davis and Taylor don’t provide enough details to evaluate their work, you should have concluded that I read their blog article.)
I was responding to a question from D. J. Hawkins about whether Mulvaney et al. found similar HRWEs to Davis and Taylor. My answer was no, because they did not do the same type of analysis, which does not appear to be standard, does not appear to be used by anyone else, and which appears to have led the referees to reject the paper because due to statistical insufficiencies. That is why I chose not comment directly on their results but instead to point out that they may be meaningless and we have no way of judging whether or not they are based on what they have “published” here.
D. J. Hawkins’s confusion is quite understandable, because in the blog article, Davis and Taylor describe their analysis as “similar but more extensive” to Mulvaney et al, which is a bit of a stretch. But D. J. Hawkins and possibly others do not have access to the article, so cannot judge the differences between the two reports. To help, I went on to described the analysis of Mulvaney et al., including excerpts of a large portion of the report. (I wish I could post the whole thing.)
That was the point of my post. I’m terribly sorry if my arguments aren’t of help to you personally, or if you don’t like them. But perhaps other people in the thread will find them useful or interesting? Who do you think you are, to dictate who speaks and who does not?
In any case, you will have your wish because, as I said, I don’t have time to continue with this fruitless discussion. I hope that my previous posts may be of use to someone because this is an extremely serious issue that should understood based on the best available evidence.
Good luck and goodbye,
d

richardscourtney
September 6, 2012 4:06 pm

Doug H:
Your post addressed to me at September 6, 2012 at 1:54 pm says you intend ‘to take your ball home’. I am assuming you are a bit more adult than that so I am bothering to reply.
You say to me

I did read the blog article. You missed my point entirely. If you had read the post I was replying to, maybe it would make more sense to you. (Also, if you had read my comments that Davis and Taylor don’t provide enough details to evaluate their work, you should have concluded that I read their blog article.)

The article said its authors had defined HRWE and the thread includes discussion of whether the novel concept of HRWE is valid. But you said you searched the web for other mentions of HRWE. Clearly, that could only mean you had not read the article and/or the thread or you have difficulties with reading comprehension. I assumed you had not read the thread. I fail to understand any “point” I “missed”.
A novel method is not “standard” and I fail to understand why – as you say you did – you attempted to determine if it is “standard” when – as you say you did – you had read the article and the thread.
Furthermore, you say the novel method

appears to have led the referees to reject the paper because due to statistical insufficiencies

That again says you did not read or failed to understand the article because it says the journal Editors rejected the article without putting it to referees.
And you claim

That is why I chose not comment directly on their results but instead to point out that they may be meaningless and we have no way of judging whether or not they are based on what they have “published” here.

Sorry, but that does not ‘cut it’ here.
Firstly, the methodology stated in the paper is clear and simple. If you can see flaws in it then you need to state them so others here can discuss them. Arm-waving about “they may be meaningless” contribute nothing because – as I explained to you – this is a place where people engage to learn: it is not a warmist ‘echo chamber’.
Secondly, the article is published here so it can be “judged”. If you see aspects which are missing from the article and which prevent assessment of the work then you need to state them: your statement of the missing information would contribute to the judgement. But your claim that you cannot judge the article tells about you and not the article.
You say

D. J. Hawkins’s confusion is quite understandable, because in the blog article, Davis and Taylor describe their analysis as “similar but more extensive” to Mulvaney et al, which is a bit of a stretch. But D. J. Hawkins and possibly others do not have access to the article, so cannot judge the differences between the two reports. To help, I went on to described the analysis of Mulvaney et al., including excerpts of a large portion of the report. (I wish I could post the whole thing.)

“Similar but more extensive” is true: it is not “a bit of a stretch”.
Similar does not mean the same. In this case it means they considered the same data with a view to obtaining the same type of information.
And it is certainly “more extensive”. Indeed, it is much more extensive. Mulvaney et al. analysed data over the most recent 2 millenia as revealed by the Vostock ice core, but the article analysed data over the most recent 400 millenia from the same core.
You say your error about “a bit of a stretch”

was the point of my post.

And follow that with

I’m terribly sorry if my arguments aren’t of help to you personally, or if you don’t like them. But perhaps other people in the thread will find them useful or interesting? Who do you think you are, to dictate who speaks and who does not?

You did not make any arguments. Indeed, I am writing this reply to point out to you that you failed to provide arguments and, instead, offered assertions. Hence, nobody can find your arguments helpful, likeable, useful, interesting or anything else because they do not exist.
Importantly, I did not suggest you could not “speak”. On the contrary, I said

Please read the article and the thread before making further posts to the thread.

I repeat that request, and I have offered this post in hope that it will help you to understand how to present better posts.
Richard

phlogiston
September 7, 2012 1:01 am

Is this a new AGW argument – that the Vostok – and other – ice core records, that have been the subject of substantial research into past climate variation, are now considered to show nothing more than “red noise”?
Are ice ages “red noise”? One can sense how, once the AGW team get to a suitable high of confidence, that ice ages will be their next target – some are already no doubt preparing narratives which question whether past ice ages were a measurement artefact.
The end goal is of course an inquisitorial imposition of belief in a totally uniform climate for all of earth’s history until the late 20th century.

Phil's Dad
September 7, 2012 2:56 am

richardscourtney says: September 6, 2012 at 7:32 am
I agree with everything you say in your post at September 6, 2012 at 3:48 am…However, I repectfully write to ask that you don’t spend time telling us but, instead you use that time to tell your colleagues in Parliament.

Hi Richard,
Duly noted. Not that anyone is counting but I have indeed posted here a lot less recently, for exactly the reason you suggest.
What has not gone unnoticed is that many of the (UK) Government’s top jobs have just been reassigned to individuals with a far less dogmatic attitude to CAGW than their predecessors.
Changing attitudes at the very top is slow, hard work (and career dangerous for a politician) – but we are getting there.
I will continue to put most of my time and effort into where it really counts – but I reserve the right (or privilege perhaps) to pop up here from time to time. One reason I do it is to test my understanding and I truly value the responses I get from yourself and others.
WUWT is a fantastic resource that influences decisions in places you can only guess at.
PD

September 7, 2012 7:37 am

richardscourtney says:
September 6, 2012 at 10:24 am

I really like your correct restatement of the precautionary principle, and would like to quote it to others (including the Republican primary winner from our town who will go up against the rabid warmist Rep. Ed Ma[la]rkey in November). However, I’m not sure what you intended by the “end of a wire” phrase in this sentence:

. . . the ONLY sources of the needed energy are fossil fuels and nuclear power. The major increase has to be in fossil fuel use because not everything can be powered from the end of a wire.

Do you mean that fossil fuel plants can be situated more locally than nuclear ones? Or am I missing something?
/Mr Lynn

richardscourtney
September 7, 2012 9:47 am

Phil’s Dad:
Thankyou for your generosity in providing your reply me at September 7, 2012 at 2:56 am.
I suspect I am not alone in having noticed your reduced frequency of posts. I do not intend to reduce the sincerity of my request to you in my post you have replied, but it is always good to get a view from an ‘insider’ so I also ask you please keep us informed as best you can.
I fully understand your points about the ministerial reshuffle, and you may have noticed that several ‘Brits’ have made similar points on WUWT. But confirmation of that view from someone at the political ‘coal face’ is valuable: thankyou.
It is most pleasing to read your saying

WUWT is a fantastic resource that influences decisions in places you can only guess at.

And it is good that you say you intend to continue to use WUWT as a resource in your work. There are wide spectra of knowledge, expertise, and political positions here, and such a diverse resource is a rare advantage to any politician.
Especial thanks for your promise to continue lobbying from the ‘inside’. Be assured that most of us understand both the difficulty and the personal risk that gives you, and we are grateful.
Regards to you and most sincere support for your work.
Richard
PS As a politician, you may get interest and amusement from the WUWT thread at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/09/01/wuwt-is-the-focus-of-a-seminar-at-the-university-of-colorado/

richardscourtney
September 7, 2012 10:10 am

Mr Lynn:
Thankyou for your post addressed to me at September 7, 2012 at 7:37 am.
Of course you can use my statement concerning the precautionary principle. I would not have posted it if I had thought it would be of no use. Indeed, I am often amused by things I write – especially phrases – that ‘return’ to me as though I did not know them.
You ask me to explain what I meant when I wrote

. . . the ONLY sources of the needed energy are fossil fuels and nuclear power. The major increase has to be in fossil fuel use because not everything can be powered from the end of a wire.

The point is that not everything can be directly powered by electricity. For example, it needs a long wire to operate a Boeing 747.
Electricity is a source of energy that cannot be stored in significant amounts so must be used as it is generated and where it is distributed.
Fuels are stores of energy that can be used when and where required. Agricultural machinery and transportation need fuels.
Synthetic fossil fuels can be made by use of electricity but they are much more expensive than fossil fuels. And the so-called ‘hydrogen economy’ is so daft it will never happen: it would be a disaster for any politicians who tried to adopt it when the first explosion happened.
So, nuclear power can be used to generate electricity and can provide expensive fossil fuels. Fossil fuels can be used for many purposes including as fuels for the generation of electricity.
I hope this brief explanation is adequate.
Richard

September 7, 2012 10:52 am

Thanks, Richard. I assumed that you were speaking about generating electricity, so did not consider transport and other fossil-fuel uses; but of course you said ‘energy’, not ‘electricity’.
/Mr Lynn

tjfolkerts
September 7, 2012 11:27 am

Richard,
Perhaps you could extend your comments on the precautionary principle. You said “We know for certain fact that constraining the use of fossil fuels will kill many people.” I agree.
On the other hand, we also know that nature itself has constrained the use of fossil fuels (no resource is infinite). Oil production continues to climb while the rate of new discoveries seems to be going down. Even optimistic projections for oil sands etc don’t add too many decades to reserves. Thus it seems that, one way or another, fossil fuel use WILL be cut back within the next century, and many people WILL die.
So how do we address this? Do we start weening ourselves now? Do we barrel ahead (oops — accidental pun 🙂 ) and hope that sometime in the next century some smart scientist finds a replacement for oil?

richardscourtney
September 7, 2012 12:01 pm

tjfolkerts:
Thankyou for your interest in what I wrote which you express in your post addressed to me at September 7, 2012 at 11:27 am.
However, it seems we are straying off-topic. And this thread has an important topic. The article at the top of the thread needs to be assessed to ensure any weaknesses it contains are detected and addressed. And the the article indicates the present warm period is far from “unprecedented”. This indication has important scientific and political implications (I observe the interest of Phil’s Dad in this thread which is proof of the political importance).
Therefore, as a courtesy I will give your post to me a brief response, but I ask you to find my several other comments on ‘peak oil’ on WUWT, and – with no intention of incivility – I declare that this will be my only response to that subject in this important thread.
There is no possibility of ‘peak oil’ in the foreseeable future. There are several reasons for this and they mostly result from basic economics. But one is purely practical so serves to show ‘peak oil’ is a non-problem.
Synthetic crude oil (i.e. syncrude) can be made from coal. Since 1994 it has been possible to make syncrude from coal at competitive cost with natural crude (by use of the LSE process). There is sufficient coal for at least 300 years supply (some estimates say 1,000 years). 300 years ago transport depended on horses. Now transport depends on fossil fuels. Nobody can know what transport will depend on in 300 years time. And there is sufficient fossil fuel for at least 300 years.
Therefore, there is no possible need to worry about ‘peak oil’ for at least the next 250 years and probably never.
Richard

September 19, 2012 5:41 am

No. our mistakes – concrete jungles, deforestation, and deserts formation have disturbed cooling system causing global warming.

RACookPE1978
Editor
September 19, 2012 5:51 am

Dev Bahadur Dongol says:
September 19, 2012 at 5:41 am
No. our mistakes – concrete jungles, deforestation, and deserts formation have disturbed cooling system causing global warming.

Justify that claim. With numbers.
UHI heat effect? Absolutely – But that measured temperatures in very, very limited areas rise does not mean continental areas heat up. Desert areas increasing – on a worldwide basis? Yes – The socialist disasters in the Caspian due to THEIR socialists’ government interference in irrigation for their government’s cotton crops. (But the CAGW throws more power to absolute socialism! …)
how do you account for the increase in plant growth over 13% to 27% due to increased CO2 the past 50 years? Everything is growing faster!

Reply to  RACookPE1978
September 19, 2012 6:16 am

there has been [climate] changes on Earth with the changes on the surface of the earth. Because of those changes because of the urbanizatio we have disturbed the rain cycle by obstructing evaporation from the surface of the earth – the most effective cooling system. i don’t think reforestation is occurring faster than deforestation on the earth – millions of human settlements have changed the surface of the earth worse than the deserts which can let water go through but not by concrete jungles- reason for sea level rise. for details please click on my name.

richardscourtney
September 19, 2012 7:02 am

indrdev200:
Humans inhabit a small part of the 20% of the Earth’s surface which is not covered by water. Human settlements have local effects on climate but their global effect on on total evapouration from the Earth’s surface is trivial.
And I did check your link. It includes e.g. this

Because the turbines rotate with the same velocity as the rushing water, the turbines don’t decrease the power of running water.

For an understanding of why that is wrong please search perpetuum mobile.
Richard