Bishop Hill is reporting that some ugly emails have been published due to FOI requests. He writes:
In the wake of the death threats that weren’t at ANU, several people sent FOI requests to the University of East Anglia asking for copies of the death threats that they said Phil Jones had received. The relevant emails have now been released and can be seen here
Be warned, this is very, very ugly stuff, and there are several messages in there that seem to me to be criminal.
Colour me disgusted
I agree, they are vile and disgusting. Nobody should have to endure these. And, no credible climate skeptic would send them. These are the work of cowards.
From the perspective of these mild mannered scientists, I know these sorts of things come as a complete shock to them. I can see how Dr. Jones would have been driven to depression right after Climategate broke.
From my perspective, having been in television and radio newsrooms for 25 years, this is pretty run of the mill stuff. I’ve also gotten emails like this in my work on TV and radio, as well as during my publication of WUWT. I described my experience with this sort of stuff previously when I took the overly excitable David Appell to task for bringing my deceased mother into the argument in David Appell denies he has any class.
Note that all of the email sender addresses have been redacted. That probably wasn’t necessary, as it is highly unlikely any of these vile little cowards that wrote this stuff used a real email address. In my experience, people generally don’t write such things when they have their real name attached to such vile prose.
As I’ve always said about the Internet and electronic communications in general, anonymity breeds contempt.
This doesn’t change the ANU argument, which has been clearly and completely debunked. No death threats were sent there. I suppose that there will be another round of the story now that these have been published, because small minded people like Appell have a driven need to paint skeptics in the worst possible light, so I’m sure all sorts of associations will be made. He’s gone silent since he came out on the wronger than wrong side of the ANU argument, expect a fresh set of hateful prose from him now.
As for this thread. I’m not going to tolerate much in the way of off color commentary. Moderators – snip at will anything that doesn’t meet policy.
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Looks like a typical comments page on YouTube.
Heh. A lot of the foul language, I’ve heard the same or worse in the break room. Some comments are reasonably erudite but with some choice epithets thrown in, in the vein of “To thoughtfully conclude, you ******** ******** who deserves to be shot and left in the street…” I just can’t take that sort of stuff seriously.
There are some odd notes in there. Like in the pg 5-6 continuous “Chaos has risen” rant, with a reference to Alex Jones, and “or you will simply disappear much like Dr. Moshe”. References from InfoWars, 2009: Nov 5, Nov 21; HuffPo piece listed as posted on Sept 13 2009, updated May 25 2011 (Huh? Why?), with an URL-based date of August 14 2009 (?). Dr. Moshe made a claim on the radio about certain flu vaccines actually being bio-weapons. He was arrested by the FBI and Secret Service for threats against the White House and detained.
So that would make Dr. Moshe a whistle-blower who went against “the governmental conspiracy”, exactly the opposite of Dr. Jones. So why equate them? Sounds like someone dug up some “right-wing conspiracy nutjob” names to spice up the email. Likewise other words seem out of place.
Top of pg 4, the writer identifies themselves as Canadian, and basically says if you tick off Canada you’re going up against “340 million heavily armed ******* off North Americans”. Previously I had heard Canada had gone strongly towards civilian disarmament, impacting even their Olympic shooting team (yes it’s a real but rarely-mentioned sport). Only recently did Canada get rid of their long gun registry and its data (although the French colony of Quebec wants the info for their own registry).
So given that and the number given, this “Canadian” writer is saying that if you tick off Canada, then you’ll have to answer to US citizens? Come on, any “right-wing whacko” should know better than that.
The pg 6 all-caps rant featuring “masonic”, “goatheaded”, “protestant”, and using ‘(out)house’ fifteen times? If I found that posted as a “standard internet rant” I would laugh. Venting like that just can’t be taken seriously.
And the pg 7 “To the Charlatans of Science” email? Why is that even in there? If you would consider that threatening, you have a problem.
Yes, I can see how the collection can be viewed as threatening to those naive to the depths of internet comments. But it’s not the angry shouters one should worry about, unless they’re right in front of you and obviously deranged. Worry about those who are calm, collected, and communicating clearly, those who are “deadly serious”.
Yep, best to steal the thunder.
Might even call it, that often misused/misunderstood word :
“transparency”.
My spidey sense is working overtime.
@Nigel, “vile and hateful” – that’s a stretch. And surely you are aware that some nuts down in Australia National University did in fact exaggerate wildly when they made claims of having received death threats? So doesn’t it seem particularly odd timing that after the ANU death threats are finally completely and utterly debunked only maybe a week or two, now we get a new batch of evil, hateful, death threat emails? Rather odd coincidence, don’t you think.
I didn’t read all the letters but I didn’t see any that were criminal in my jurisdiction. Generally death threats in and of themselves aren’t illegal unless made against a head of state. To prosecute it must be criminal coercion i.e. blackmail: “do this or I kill you”.
As far as nobody should have to endure that I would say that’s a bit too general. I’d offer up “You reap what you sow”. Personally I think Jones is getting less than his just desserts if this the only thing he has to endure.
Skeptik says:
June 13, 2012 at 1:54 pm
Looks like a typical comments page on YouTube.
=========================
Are the so-called death threats being discussed on YouTube? Please provide link.
andrewmharding says:
June 13, 2012 at 1:28 pm
These e-mails are very interesting, they look at first sight as if they came from loutish thugs, but if you read them for a second and third time, they are well punctuated, grammatically correct, with no spelling mistakes (apart from “neads”, which no-one ever mis-spells!).
I suggest you try again there are many spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors in them.
Connifer says:
June 13, 2012 at 6:50 am
“I was especially offended when Barack Obama used this “denier” term to label AGW skeptics in one of his speeches”
Consider the source. Uber pothead, inventor of the “interception” and “total absorption” policy when it came to his Hawaiin “Choom Gang”. He thanked his drug dealer and the other members of the Choom Gang in his high school yearbook while leaving out his mother.
It’s actually the closest I ever felt to him! But just because we’re alike in that we were both loadies in high school and college I’m not running for president or expected to be a role model for the youth of America. The message it sends is literally, “Smoke pot and become President”. How can anyone now possibly, with a straight face, say pot smoking is bad for kids when the president of the United States spent his youth obsessed with smoking it?
Connifer says:
June 13, 2012 at 6:50 am
“I was especially offended when Barack Obama used this “denier” term to label AGW skeptics in one of his speeches”
Consider the source. Uber pothead, inventor of the “interception” and “total absorption” policy when it came to his Hawaiin “Choom Gang”. He thanked his drug dealer and the other members of the Choom Gang in his high school yearbook while leaving out his mother.
It’s actually the closest I ever felt to him! But just because we were we were both loadies in high school and college I’m not president or expected to be a role model for the youth of America. The message it sends is literally, “Smoke pot and become President!”. How can anyone now possibly, with a straight face, say pot smoking is bad for kids when the president of the United States spent his youth obsessed with smoking it?
Neo says:
June 13, 2012 at 12:02 pm
“Perhaps, we should a FOI to the University of Virginia asking for death threat emails to Michael Mann. If they send any, ask for the other emails.”
This is a good idea for a reality check on the nasty emails allegedly sent to Dr. P. Jones. Send the same FOI to the other institutions where Mann, Trenbreth, Gavin… work to see if they also received such emails. It would be unusual for only Jones to be victimized.
I’m SO glad the death threat sender’s email addresses were redacted. It’s important that their privacy is respected. /sarc
I repeat what I posted at Bishop Hill
***
I’ve read through the emails and draw the following conclusions.
Of a total of 27, most were written by an American, at least 22 of them are pretty certain (based on a combination of date stamp style and use of language, especially certain expletives, and spelling. Although some still have a European-style date stamp, the language is definitely American). Of these, most, likely all, were written by the same person – based on writing style. Only one is definitely written by a Brit, that at the bottom of page 7, which is the only one referring to any true climate science issues – the MWP and ‘cooling since 1998’. The remaining 4 could be UK or USA sourced, but more likely USA
– based on language style.
The one ‘definite UK’ source includes an unpleasant suggestion to ‘rot in a ditch’, but no direct death threat.
In my view, all of the direct death threats or suicide recommendations come from the same US citizen. Therefore, these emails are not an indication of a pattern of death threats against Jones. Instead, it is the story of one sick individual, with little understanding of Climategate or the climate change debate, who chose to harass Jones.
Of course its fodder for those who want to use it to portray pro-AGW scientists as victims, but its a further diversion from the chance of a rational scientific debate.
***
By the way, as a Brit, I’ll highlight some US/UK language indicators:
– Date stamp: putting the day no AFTER the month as in January 29, as well as using AM, PM instead of a 24 hr clock.
– In UK, an ass is a donkey
– we don’t use c…sucker or motherf…r, and rarely faggot
– Our name for Santa Claus is Father Christmas
– Goddam is certainly more American
– the ‘definite UK source’ uses spellings: ‘favour’ and ‘humour’.
Bloke in a Pub says:
June 13, 2012 at 2:42 pm
– – – – – – –
Bloke in a Pub,
What pub and when? : )
John
Gosh.
You would think that the posters on this thread are unfamiliar with ‘flaming.’
Just ask any conservative female blogger. Their mail is much worse than these snippets.
Even some conservative male bloggers incur the same sort of venom.
Just calm down out there.
Minds are not changed by vitriol. Reasoned argument, backed up by accurate data, is the only way to make any progress. Calling someone a name solves nothing and changes no minds.
So Phil Jones got some nasty mail?
Any mail which was a credible threat should have been turned over to the Police. The rest simply need to be erased and forgotten. This is the risk anyone runs when acting in the public square.
As if we needed more proof that 50% of all humanity is below average. They read like typical Usenet flame fests. There was/perhaps still is a group dedicated only to this kind of thing. Some forums still allow this stupidity to flourish. It is drugs, booze, and bad parenting plus the enabling power of the Internet.
“dodgy emails that were hacked…“ ? How, er, “anti-science” 😉
The fact that climategate was barely mentioned by any of the mainstream media, I don’t buy the idea that a flaming fest all of the sudden popped up. Patrons of these sights were pretty much the only people who even knew about it. and I’ve never seen this type of talk from the people around here.
Just kids having fun.
[REPLY: Kids that should, perhaps, become the poster children for the need to engage in more corporal punishment rather than less? -REP]
John Doe says:
June 13, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Consider the source. Uber pothead, inventor of the “interception” and “total absorption” …….
…….. The message it sends is literally, “Smoke pot and become President”. How can anyone now possibly, with a straight face, say pot smoking is bad for kids when the president of the United States spent his youth obsessed with smoking it?
=================================================
Uhmm….. John, there are some anti-pot smokers who would hold up Obama as a reason why one shouldn’t partake of the herb. It must be bad for development! Look what happened to Barry!!! He’s lost all cognitive function! Just say no!!! Just imagine what would happen if we had a bunch of Obamabots running things!…… Oh, crap…….
If the moderators have spared us of from such crass vitriol, I thank them and rescind my comment. But I wonder if they have seen this kind of crap.
[REPLY: Not all in one place, but yes. Not to mention attempts at character assassination, outright lies, astro-turfing, use of other people’s e-mail addresses and identities…. -REP]
I’m with you Anthony. This debate will be won on the science or it won’t be won at all. It would be nice if both sides would debate openly and honestly though.
I have no sympathy for an activist like Jones receiving these emails in response to his crooked behavior and Lysenko science. Nor do I trust him or his organization to have not made these emails up. He has zero credibility. As for his depression – well he should be depressed – he is an odious cretin in my view.
Goldie says:
June 13, 2012 at 3:47 pm
I’m with you Anthony. This debate will be won on the science or it won’t be won at all. It would be nice if both sides would debate openly and honestly though.
——————————————————————————————————–
One side is nothing but unopened and dishonest and that’s how they will stay, because to do otherwise, will expose them as the frauds they are. That’s the catch. When you trap a rabid animal into a corner it’s not going to turn into a pussy cat. So this
debatepropaganda war will remain in the trenches through their intent.Based on pattern analysis these emails were written by a single author. Aside from the foul language and obvious angry tone the author makes some good points and is passionate. The profile suggests the author has a personal connection with his audience. The ability to create multiple email sources reveals the author’s advanced IT savy. Could we be looking at a very jaded former employee and the source of the ClimateGate emails? I’m not saying I agree with the nature of these emails. But I don’t disagree with the points the author makes about the harmful nature of AGW alarmists that drive destructive policy in the absence of sound science. It is more destructive than war. My suspicion is that these emails are the work of the ClimateGate leak.