Quote of the Week – BONUS Krugman insanity edition

conradg says:
May 30, 2012 at 3:23 pm
Funny you should claim that Greenbacks were “real money”, as when they came into existence they were considered fake fiat money, and opposed by the hard money crowd. In fact, the Supreme Court ruled against them the first time around, until the Presidents packed the court with Republicans and reverse the rulings.
? Overruling the bwanking cartel organised from Britain with its usurious creation of money as a commodity? You find that funny? A commodity created out of nothing but a few strokes of the pen with which all industry and commerce is by this controlled, by private companies perpetrating grand larceny by issuing them back to the people as debt plus all the fractional reserve fraud ..
Yep, I too think it funny, that the bwankers got blocked, thrown out of the market place by the introduction of the greenbacks. That they manipulate booms and busts whenever they get control is not well enough known. Time to do it again, drive them out, to go back to a debt free money system and finally get rid of the scheister money changers with their grand larceny of fractional reserve. Heard the other day that their 1913 contract, charter, was for a hundred years, that it runs out at the end of this year. But anyway, what they are doing is unlawful, it’s a con, a fraud on the American taxpayers, who through the bwankers private collection arm, the IRS, are paying the private bwankers interest on these notes, that is theft from the taxpayers passing itself off as tax to the Government – the American government has no right to sell notes to a private company for the private banking company’s profit against the interests of the American people who are forced by this manipulative con to buy them back at face value and charged interest. Just because ‘laws’ can be enacted, doesn’t make them lawful. A con is a con. Fraud is fraud. This is fraud on a grand scale. As the bwankers well understand – if this becomes common knowledge they’re toast. This legal fiction won’t save them.
The truth is, it’s all fake money, but of genuine symbolic value as a measure of trust in the governments issuing them.
False trust, because the Government complicit in the banking scam. Greenbacks were real money, issued without interest, debt free. The fake money is the bwankers buying notes for peanuts and selling them back at face value plus interest. And the government since 1913 has abused that trust against the interests of the American people, it doesn’t have to give it to money changing middle men ..
Perhaps you think federal reserve notes should be trashed and the fed put out of business, and have the treasury go back to issuing its own notes.
Perhaps? Gosh, I’d have thought by now you would have got that I’m saying precisely that..
Hard to say if that would really be any better. Greenbacks saw huge financial manipulation of the markets also, including the Great Depression, so they hardly represent a flawless system.
Bullshit, only when the bankers got control of the money supply, they created the depressions, Great and others by their fractional reserve fraud creating money out of nothing and manipulating the money supply, stop rewriting history. While the American people starved the bwanking cartel was sending out money to create the next wars elsewhere, financing the Russian Revolution because the Tsar wouldn’t let them set up a central bank, besides buying up everything they could at rock bottom prices from those who had no choice but to default on loans. This is organised crime, it’s time this was fully out in the open and we got rid of the retard system.
It would be very interesting to see what the world would look like without central banks, but I don’t think we’ll ever see that. Your crowd is always hoping for an apocalypse of some kind so it all falls apart and we can start over, but I don’t think that’s going to happen, fortunately. More likely are reforms to keep market manipulations to a minimum.
We know what it would look like…, real prosperity. And no, my ‘crowd’ aren’t hoping for any such thing, we want the system of central banking dismantled completely and the criminals held accountable for their fraud.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Banks/Gold_FedResNotes_WOD.html
“an editorial in the The Union Times during the Civil War – against President Abraham Lincoln’s debt-free Greenbacks
If that mischievous financial policy which had its origin in the North American Republic during the late war [Civil War], should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debt. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. The brains and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe.”
When the government first issued the greenbacks they did so to bypass the bwankers manipulation – as before it was notes used simply to facilitate exchanges and the country enjoyed real prosperity without the people been ripped off, as it had before the War of Independence when the British bwankers tried to get control of the debt free money being issued. Even recently the government was issuing debt free money, greenbacks were still being printed.
After 1971 the federal reserve notes were taken off the gold standard, they are issued now soley with the Governments declaration that they are legal tender. That’s all it takes to make real money, the Government must issue its own interest free, debt free, notes as a sovereign nation and the private banking cartel of the money changers outlawed.
The gold backed notes were another bankers scam – same link: “Money reform advocates today tend to argue that the solution to the country’s financial woes is to return to the “gold standard,” which required that paper money be backed by a certain weight of gold bullion. But to the farmers and laborers who were suffering under its yoke in the 1890s, the gold standard was the problem. They had been there and knew it didn’t work. William Jennings Bryan called the bankers’ private gold-based money a “cross of gold.” There was simply not enough gold available to finance the needs of an expanding economy. The bankers made loans in notes backed by gold and required repayment in notes backed by gold; but the bankers controlled the gold, and its price was subject to manipulation by speculators. Gold’s price had increased over the course of the century, while the prices laborers got for their wares had dropped. People short of gold had to borrow from the bankers, who periodically contracted the money supply by calling in loans and raising interest rates. The result was “tight” money – insufficient money to go around. Like in a game of musical chairs, the people who came up short wound up losing their homes to the banks.”
See the film the Wizard of Oz which was pointing out the gold backed money scam, the grand theft illusion, let’s draw back the curtain they’re hiding behind. More on understanding the gold standard scam which makes the bankers richer and enslaves the poor.http://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/debt-free-money-resource-based-economy-superior-gold-standard/
This subject as presented by the private banking cartels and their puppets is clever in its lies about the history, these can only be spotted if the real history is known, an example:
http://fauxcapitalist.com/2009/10/30/the-federal-reserve-lies-about-united-states-notes-lincoln-greenbacks/
“The Federal Reserve lies about United States Notes (Lincoln Greenbacks)
October 30, 2009 by FauxCapitalist
The Federal Reserve first starts off by telling the truth about United States Notes:
“U.S. notes, the first national currency, began circulating during the civil war; they were authorized by the Legal Tender Act of 1862. The Department of the Treasury issued these notes directly. Issuance was subject to limitations; the Congress established a statutory limitation of $300 million on the amount of U.S. notes outstanding and in circulation. Although this amount was significant in Civil War days, it is a very small fraction of the total currency now in circulation in the United States.“
Then, they tell a big lie:
“U.S. notes serve no function that is not already served by Federal Reserve notes.”
Completely false! U.S. Notes were issued interest-free by the government. The purpose they served was to not bankrupt the American people in funding the Civil War, by not subjecting them to an unpayable, interest-accruing debt, from the moment of creation, as Federal Reserve notes do.
They lie, not only mislead, since they give so many accurate details, only to lie about the most important distinguishing function of U.S. Notes from Federal Reserve notes — their interest-free issuance. Sarah Emery, in her 1887 work, Seven Financial Conspiracies Which Have Enslaved the American People, states: “the enactments of July 17, 1861, and February 12, 1862, authorizing the issue of $60,000,000 treasury notes, not bearing interest and payable for all debts, public and private.“
The function they serve that isn’t already served by Federal Reserve notes is that not a single penny of interest was ever due on them, nor will ever be due, by the American people to the bankers or the government.”
These criminal bwankers are just that: http://www.xat.org/xat/usury.html
THE HISTORY OF MONEY PART 2
Colonel Dick Taylor When Lincoln asked if the people of America would accept the notes Taylor said. “The people or anyone else will not have any choice in the matter, if you make them full legal tender. They will have the full sanction of the government and be just as good as any money; as Congress is given that express right by the Constitution.”
Colonel Dick Taylor 1 Lincoln agreed to try this solution and printed 450 million dollars worth of the new bills using green ink on the back to distinguish them from other notes. “The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers….. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of Government, but it is the Government’s greatest creative opportunity. By the adoption of these principles, the long-felt want for a uniform medium will be satisfied. The taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest, discounts and exchanges. The financing of all public enterprises, the maintenance of stable government and ordered progress, and the conduct of the Treasury will become matters of practical administration. The people can and will be furnished with a currency as safe as their own government. Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity. Democracy will rise superior to the money power.”
The Americans fought against the London bwankers to get their independence: http://www.kamron.com/Liberty/colonial_script.htm
Colonial Script
“This system guarantees HONEST MONEY. It was not controlled by a private corporation with a monopoly on the credit of the nation as it is today.
There was no inflation or deflation, as long as the MONEY SUPPLY WAS KEPT EQUAL TO THE VALUE OF GOODS AND SERVICES TO BE PRODUCED AND MOVED (distributed).
As will be shown later in this paper, what we really need has already proven itself historically — not only in Franklin’s early colonial days, but in other historical instances.
We will see that it was this system which Franklin describes that was taken away from the America colonies through the gradual encroachments of the British Parliament (Legislative branch of Britain’s government) and the enforcement of this legislation in King’s Admiralty/Maritime/Equity courts set up in the colonies by America’s mother country, Britain, without reference to the common law established by Magna Carta that led to the American Revolution.
Those encroachments are described in the Declaration of Independence.
Is America today being governed without reference to Magna Carta and the national and state Constitutions founded thereon?
What was the condition in England, in Franklin’s day?
All her money was borrowed from private banks at interest, and repressive taxes were laid upon the people.
Private banks usurped the government’s right to create and regulate money. Banks created money or credit “out of thin air”, by mere bookkeeping entries, with no labor or wealth involved or exchanged.
The money supply was not kept equal to the value of goods to be moved. Nor was it issued interest or tax free. It was issued at interest by private for profit banks “out of thin air” just like it is being issued here in America today.
Think about this!
If you had a “magic” checking account with the ability to write unlimited checks against no funds (backing) “out of thin air”, would you not be able to buy and control the whole world eventually?”
From: http://www.heartlandnews.us/02_04_09_debtfreedollars.html
Congressman Calls for Debt-Free Dollars
BY CHRIS PETHERICK
“An Ohio congressman has called on the federal government to take back the power to issue money from the Federal Reserve, the private central bank that, along with Wall Street, is to blame for plunging the world into an economic crisis not seen since the Great Depression of the 1920s and 1930s.
“The Federal Reserve [is] no more federal than Federal Express,” said Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) on the floor of the House of Representatives on Jan. 26. “It’s a collection of private bankers that was established in 1913 by the Federal Reserve Act.””
That’s it, in a nutshell.

Smokey says:
June 1, 2012 at 7:50 pm
For example, his claim about “greenbacks”: Greenbacks followed Brownbacks. Brownbacks were certificates showing that real money, either physical gold or silver, was stored in the Treasury and would be paid on demand to the bearer of the note. Territorial Notes were also issued for Hawaii and the Indian Territories. Goldbacks were gold certificates that were redeemable upon demand, in gold coin [I have numerous examples of all these notes because I have collected pre-1928 ‘large size’ notes for over 30 years, and have several hundred examples in uncirculated condition].
…
A return to the gold standard would rectify most of the problems in the economy, and all of the serious problems. Because you can’t print gold
You also can’t create it, which means you limit the amount of transactions that can take place and you limit wealth to those with the means to acquire gold, and gold’s supply is finite. The notes were taken off the gold standard because by that time it was obviously a fiction they were redeemable for actual gold, only some 40% of gold being required to back up the notes printed, so clearly a gold standard didn’t work. Hence previously Roosevelt’s making illegal redeeming notes for gold, there wasn’t enough gold to be redeemed, and of course the great theft then of making it illegal for the America people to own gold, he stole it all from them.
The New Deal and Roosevelt’s Seizure of Gold: A Legacy of Theft and Inflation
http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson154.html
The New Deal and Roosevelt’s Seizure of Gold:
A Legacy of Theft and Inflation, Part 2
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0609d.asp
The real problem here is that we’re conditioned to thinking of real money as something that has intrinsic value in itself, but that’s simply making it a limited commodity which then has all the pitfalls of accumulation of it by the powerful and abuse of that power by those who have control, the Wizard of Oz link – bankers used it as they do now notes, by being in control of it they created the booms and busts and picked up the wealth of the people by expanding and limiting its supply at will and calling in loans to create the busts. The Federal Notes are their new gold, but now they have an unlimited supply, they can buy up everything – bankers playing with monopoly money for real.
Re the Wizard of Oz – the slippers were changed from gold to ruby in the film, but it’s about the monopoly of money, of gold, by the bankers in the East which screwed the farmers and resulted in the land grab by bankers as farmers defaulted –
“Populists were especially concerned about the high cost of money. Farmers required capital to purchase agricultural equipment and land. They needed credit to buy supplies and to store their crops in grain elevators and warehouses. At the time, loans for the supplies to raise a crop ranged from 40 percent to 345 percent a year. The Populists asked why there was no more money in circulation in the United States in 1890 than in 1865, when the economy was far smaller, and why New York bankers controlled the nation’s money supply.” http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=157
That’s where the confusion is here re gold backed and fiat, it’s not that the Fed notes aren’t real money because they don’t have gold backing, fiat money, but because they have created it a commodity as was gold, a limited commodity which they control as they did gold money – and that’s not the purpose of money. And so the confusion compounded by associating debt free notes as if current fiat which can’t be exchanged for gold, as not real money. But the two systems are completely different.
Money should be merely a token of value to facilitate exchanges, for goods, services, labour. That’s all that’s required of it to be. When it is issued debt free, free of interest, by a government for the ease of exchanges, then it is fulfilling its role, its purpose, and that is the only real money. Because, the value in it represents real worth; the hours of labour, the goods created, the animals raised, the corn grown. This is anathema to the bankers, and traditionally monarchies, who want to accrue all wealth to themselves and devalue the worth of others.
Reading up on the American history as I’ve given some links above, there isn’t enough gold to represent the value of the worth of all the people, and even gold standard notes were only backed by 40% gold with the bankers lending money created out of nothing, no gold to back up the notes they produced so it’s all a fiction, and there’s still the problem of control of notes which should not be in private hands, by which they make it a commodity and then don’t have to care about any laws made because they can always game the system when they have control.
As a bit of an aside here re fiction, that’s how bankers in Europe first began the scam, they began giving out notes representing the gold they were entrusted with, for ease of use in exchanges… Shortly after as the bankers became quickly much wealthier than they had been, those depositing their gold with the bankers became suspicious, thinking that the bankers had stolen their gold and so were issuing these notes with nothing to back it, of course the bankers opened their vaults and showed their customers their gold was intact, and they left satisfied – the bankers had discovered the perfect con, they could pretend that every note issued, in loans and so on, was real token of a certain amount of gold which they had in safe keeping, few bothered to check. Over the centuries they perfected fractional reserve to extend their limited supply of gold and that has now done away with the fiction that money was gold backed.
Anyway, as explained to Lincoln, make particular notes legal tender and issue them debt free, interest free, and they become that without needing to go to banks to borrow money at interest – and at the time banks were offering deals of some 30-40% interest – and so it’s been written into the Constitution that the goverment alone has the right to create money – but, as I’m still thinking this through, how does that work for me? This still puts the creation of money into the power of one entity, and absolute power …
Although it’s obvious the debt based money system created by the banks is unworkable, as well as being their means of deliberately defrauding the public of all their wealth by the twin methods of creating booms by extending money and particularly busts by limiting money supply and calling in loans* on top of the basic fraud of collecting the interest by taxes through the IRS passing it off as tax to the government, I’m not sure how it would work with government issued legal tender even if debt and interest free.
What happens if I want to start a business and borrow interest free money from the government which I then hope to pay back as my business prospers, what if my business fails? The government would take whatever assets I had and would end up being the owner of land and property – and that’s not the function of goverment as servant and of course is open to abuse. What happens when someone wants to employ me and has to pay in this legal tender? I can see that being workable, say they are themselves a new business and don’t have a cash flow, they have to go to the monopoly source to borrow it and they are paying double for my services, the loan from the government of the legal tender which they have to give to me and then have to pay back the same amount to the goverment. Although the employer would only be paying back what they borrowed because it is interest free, that still leaves the problem of the what if the business failing and defaulting on the original borrowing from the government. How would that work for me selling some of the corn I’ve grown? Cutting out the middle man and selling direct to the families in my neighbourhood, do they all have to go to borrow money from this monopoly source before they can buy from me and bake their bread? I still have a lot of questions. I think in principle the requirement for an interest free money system is essential, but there is still the problem of investing trust in the government to consider and I think Lincoln here may well have been looking through rose coloured glasses at the government when he’d beaten the bankers –
“The financing of all public enterprises, the maintenance of stable government and ordered progress, and the conduct of the Treasury will become matters of practical administration. The people can and will be furnished with a currency as safe as their own government. Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity. Democracy will rise superior to the money power.”
Because a monopoly source can’t be guaranteed to be safe, a government remain uncorrupted. That the bankers won in 1913 by gaming the system of voting is the first problem of confusing republic with democracy …
The asterisk above *, is for an example of what happened to a friend running a small travel agency, the family having three offices by borrowing from the bank to build up the business. By the end of each month in the holiday season the company bank account would have 2-3 hundred thousand collected from those buying flights and holidays which would then be paid to those supplying same at the end of the month, this was around the same amount he had borrowed from the bank to set up the business. Under a particularly nasty time in Margaret Thatcher’s manipulations, the banks suddenly called in his loan and hundreds of thousands like it which resulted in massive destruction of small businesses throughout the country which were like my friend’s, doing well, paying their bank loans, not in any financial trouble. In my friends’ case they took the money direct from his account without informing him of it, money which technically wasn’t even theirs to take as it wasn’t my friends money but money he was holding in transit to the owners. He was not only financially ruined by this immoral act, his bank pointed to the small print which said they could call in the loan at any time to justify it, but he lost his industry accreditation because he couldn’t pay for the tickets he’d sold, they took away his ability to trade. And so the bankers wealth grew even more.
Much as I’d like to think that governments would be as high minded as Lincoln thought his would be, we can see by what’s happened with the EPA being given powers that should be those only of congress, high minded ideals have to be made to work and congress can be corrupted.
This morning I found an interesting discussion about all this, beginning: http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/debt-free-fiat-currency-solution-deflation-and-inflation/12438?page=0#comments
Gregory K. Soderberg gives a very good precis of the problem with debt money system in his first post on that page, but I think rhare on the next page has out of the box thinking which could be some of the solution to the problem I see of legal tender as a government monopoly:
“However, I would say this can be reduced down to a very simple statement:
•Capitalism – A voluntary system of trade based on self interest.
As long as two (or more) parties are free to choose how they interact, it is capitalism and I believe the best solution. As soon as you start placing restrictions on that interaction you are tilting the playing field in favor of one of the parties. This may include a third party that is providing “money” as a form of intermediary for the trade. If If it has ceased to be 100% voluntary then it is no longer capitalism.
So what do I think the solution should be, very simple:
•Goverment shall make no restrictions on trade, money, or what is used as money.
Now, many of you may say but we have to have protections, yada yada yada…. I will concede that this type of system is unlikely to ever be fully acceptable, or at least not without many generations of less and less government involvement. We have had multiple generations of government nannydom to bring us to our current situation and it may take many to get us to a mindset that you have to be responsible for yourself (self sufficiency). That means no SEC, FDIC, FDA, no FED.
But as an intermediate step I think removal of the legal tender laws, removal of taxes on monetary exchange, remove any laws that stop competing currencies from existing and allow parties to a transaction the ability to choose what currency they wish to use is a good first step. There doesn’t have to be one currency or system, many can co-exist and participants can be free to chose what they want to use.
Ron Paul has some comments on competing currencies.”
I shall now have a look at what Ron Paul says about this.. But, I think rhare is missing that it could be possible for such a system to be brought into effect sooner rather than later, because less and less government is the founding principle of your republic – reclaim that. Take out the corruption big industry made of congress, as in allowing them insider dealing privileges, and particularly stop the banksters fraud of the Fed/IRS and begin new money by issuing debt free notes (and by simply taking back into the debt free system the notes they fraudulently printed for the Fed Reserve, wipe out the debt because the criminals should not continue to benefit by the con they created in the debt money system, i.e. it’s a fraud, there is no debt).
The Federal Reserve fraud really has to be dealt with first – that all your IRS taxes go direct to the bankers loaning back the notes to the government at interest is a crime, they are, government and bankers both, defrauding all of the people.
Not only should you all stop paying IRS taxes, you are owed all the back taxes you’ve paid to this banking cartel through its private company collection arm masquerading as the Government…
But further, the bankers monopoly of creation of money must be stopped, whichever way they do it. They were pretty much insufferable shites in the centuries they were building their scam in Europe, but now they’ve spread that everywhere because they have got themselves into the position where they create as much money out of nothing as they want, it is insanity to let them continue.