I’m taking a blog holiday this weekend. Right now I’m watching the History channel 2 (H2) while some off the rails eco-scientist explains to us why we are all going to die because of “what might happen if a gigantic methane-gas explosion occurred in the Pacific.” Methane Explosion (2007) watch the video:
I had to laugh at the YouTube description (bold mine):
History Channel “Mega Disasters” series. This explores the controversial paper published by Northwestern University’s Gregory Ryskin. His thesis: the oceans periodically produce massive eruptions of explosive methane gas… enough to cause global catastrophe on a regular basis!
Discuss the methane explosions or whatever you like, within site policy. If you want to submit a guest post, flag a moderator.
WUWT will return to its regularly scheduled programming Sunday evening.

Zac says:
February 11, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Mathematicians have studied knots for ages, or so I heard from Martin Gardner in his SciAm column Mathematical Games.
They even go overboard – for the list of 85 possible (I think limited by the standard length or other practicality) ways to tie a necktie, see http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/tieknots.shtml
Doug Cotton says:
February 11, 2012 at 9:49 pm
I haven’t looked at your list closely, but this point is bogus. In areas that are prone to radiational cooling, the inversion can break up quickly. All morning sun has to do is heat up a thin (10 meters or so) layer of air next to the ground and presto – wind and convection can scour that out quickly and trigger a big temperature jump. These points seem to expect a marginally stable atmosphere, and that’s often not the case, especially in the morning.
Once the inversion is cleared out, then sunlight on the surface winds up heating the whole tropospere, not just the local inversion, and the heating rate goes way down.
Umm, convection? Let me guess – these guys have been doing small scale lab experiments, not setting foot outside. Well, neither have I. Not quite true, I check out temperature traces from my Davis VP weather station every day.
Check out this: http://dinosaurtheory.com/index.html particularly Ch 4&5. Brace yourself; he says the big dinos had 2/3 of their weight supported by air 370 times heavier than present.
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As for the loon in the clip, he’s Prof. Gregory Ryskin Department of Chemical and Biological Engineering Northwestern University. I suspect he’s been mentally hoist on his own petard (exploding flatulence).
As this is an Open thread weekend, I was wondering if anybody could help me.
I have been reading the following:
http://royalsociety.org/uploadedFiles/Royal_Society_Content/policy/publications/2005/9634.pdf
http://www.climate.org/topics/climate-change/ocean-uptake-climate-change.html
In short, they are articles state that due to the increase of anthropogenic CO2 the oceans have absorbed more CO2 which is causing ocean acidification.
My questions:
1. How do they know that the extra CO2 absorbed by the ocean is anthropogenic CO2? Is there a difference between anthropogenic CO2 and natural CO2?
2. Isn’t there a limit on how much atmospheric CO2 can be absorbed by water independent of the amount of CO2 in the air?
3. The increase of CO2 caused by humans is about 3%. If this is correct, why does such a small increase cause such a major reaction?
4. In the past CO2 levels have been much higher. Did this also result in ocean acidification?
5. In the last few hundred years ocean temperatures have gone up. Doesn’t warmer water have less ability to absorb CO2? So how can it be that while the oceans are warming, they (As stated) are absorbing more CO2?
For your entertainment, here is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to my son’s geography teacher, answering some of the questions she put in a pamphlet to encourage students to continue with geography studies to age 16.
1. Does it matter that 1998 was the warmest year on record, since 1861?
Yes, but not for the reasons you think. You think that this means that global warming is an increasing danger to the world, and that with some fluctuations global temperatures are still rising. But it does matter that 1998, now 14 years ago, was the warmest rather than a more recent year, because the failure of these following years is rapidly falsifying the models and projections on which the IPCC relies for its alarming view of climate around 2100AD. In fact, a noisy function in the vicinity of its peak will tend to show fairly flat behaviour, just like that seen in the years 2001-2011 (and almost certainly 2012 too). After a peak comes a fall – global cooling, a term which may surprise you, except that even mainstream media such as The Daily Mail are now reporting on the possibility that a grand solar minimum, possibly to rival Maunder’s, will imply a cooling climate.
Why did the question specify “since 1861”? The pre-eminent UK global temperature series is HadCRUT3, which starts in 1850. So 1998 was the warmest since at least 1850, and quite probably since about 1300, when the Mediaeval Warm Period started to give way to the Little Ice Age; but we really don’t know when the last warmer year was. In my spare time I have been writing a paper (to submit to peer-reviewed journals) which fits a curve to carbon dioxide concentrations and the length of solar cycles. It predicts a very modest global cooling of about 0.06K during 2010-2030, so it is quite possible that 1998’s mark may not be exceeded until the 2030s (though the odd “super El Nino” year could do it). There are some global cooling alarmists who predict far more serious cooling, but for now I am going to trust my more balanced view.
2. What is happening to the world’s ice? Will ski-ing holidays still be available in 2060?
It depends on which bits of the world’s ice are being considered. The Antarctic sea ice has shown a very modest upward trend over the last 30 years. In contrast, the Arctic sea ice as measured at minimum (September) has declined significantly. When measured at maximum extent the decline is smaller but still noticeable. Right now there is more ice than usual in the Bering Sea, but less in the Greenland and Barents seas. This is probably related to the fact that the Pacific Decadal Oscillation has gone negative whereas the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation is still positive. Global warming theorists might argue that oceans will never return to the cooler conditions of yesteryear, but the PDO contradicts that, so how confident are you that the AMO will not reverse phase?
So yes, while the AMO is positive we can expect polar sea ice on the Atlantic side to be low, and more melting could occur even if global air temperatures do fall slightly. But 2007’s record low Arctic ice extent has not yet been broken. It will of course be fascinating to see when (and if) it does get broken. Will 2007 be to Arctic sea ice what 1998 is to global temperatures (i.e. a hard record to break)? Or is the Arctic in a so-called “death spiral”, and most years from now will be lower than 2007’s?
Now ski-ing holidays are taken on mountains rather than on sea ice, so there shouldn’t be much connection between the two. Except, bizarrely, only today I read a report suggesting that a warmer Arctic would, for a while, lead to colder northern winters. But I have to say I have very little faith in that research – it just seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that we have had some cold winters recently.
Regarding ski-ing in 2060, my model puts the global temperature at about 0.93K above the 1971-2000 mean, or 0.55K above the 1996-2006 mean. That’s a bit of global warming, but I don’t think it’s enough to prevent ski-ing in the Alps. The saturated adiabatic lapse rate is about 5K/km, and global warming of 0.5K might translate, through “polar amplification” and a large stretch of the imagination, to 1.0K at the Alps’ latitude, so that corresponds to a freezing level difference of 200m. Alpine ski resorts typically offer a vertical range of 1200-1500m, so they won’t lose all their snow, but the season will on average be a little shorter, and in late season taking lifts back down to the resort will become more common. It’ll still be great fun though.
As a case in point, at the end of November there were concerns that no snow had fallen at village levels; now they have oodles, and in Les Deux Alpes the maximum temperature this week is set to be -14degC. You can add 1 degree of global warming to that and not make much impact on a cold February’s ski-ing.
3. Will rising sea levels affect me?
No. That is a categorical “no”, not just for me in my fifties, but for James in his teens too. The rate of sea level rise in the last 30 years has been about 3mm per year, and there has been no sign of acceleration. In fact the latest La Nina (cold and contracting Pacific Ocean) has put a big dent into the figures and sea levels have fallen the odd millimetre, probably temporarily. Even the IPCC AR4 only puts sea level rise at 40cm per century.
The only risk is the pusillanimity of the British government. “Sea levels are inching up, shall we build bigger walls and dykes like the Dutch do, to protect our land? Nah, I never much liked East Anglia anyway…”
4. Is Toowoomba a victim of climate change?
Where? Oh, that town near Brisbane which was deluged in January 2011. Now this is actually quite an interesting question. But these are not the climate changes you are looking for. The onset of global cooling is in fact a plausible mechanism for flooding, and I was attributing the one to the other even at 1p.m. on July 20th 2007 while I was trying to persuade the stream in our garden not to invade our house. Why is it plausible? Well, why is August typically wetter than July? It is because the atmosphere has warmed and saturated with moisture, and the onset of any hint of autumnal cooling causes heavy rain.
Globally we can have the same effect occurring. The Pakistan floods were caused by cold air coming down through central Asia and meeting the monsoon air. In Queensland the Pacific condition was La Nina, a massive cooling current, not the warming El Nino.
There are two aspects to Toowoomba which are really striking as regards the fickleness of Mother Nature and our stupid belief that we understand Her. The first is that before 2011 the Australians were blaming global warming for the severe drought they were suffering in the Murray-Darling basin – as if they had never suffered droughts before. Well they are not in drought since that La Nina kicked in. Last year they had to give up filming the latest film in the Mad Max series at their favoured location – because the desert was too green!
The second aspect is an awful human culpability bordering on the criminal, because it probably cost lives. At the time of the heavy rains some hydrologists knew that a bad river surge would surely occur if they let the reservoir fill up, so they wanted to release plenty of water well before it filled up. But the head honcho, knowing of the drought, could not bear to let one drop go out until it was absolutely necessary. And by then, with the continuing rains, it was too late! So that belief in the continuing drought-making effects of global warming killed people.
Finally, here are a couple of questions which didn’t make it into your list.
5. Does it matter that solar Cycle 23 was the longest since 1850?
Yes, because it was 2 years longer than the average of the previous 8 cycles, and my model shows that those 2 years convert to global cooling of 0.16K. This is counteracted by about 0.10K of warming from increased CO2, leaving a net cooling. Because the previous cycles were shorter, part of the global warming of the 20th century was attributable to that, leaving the sensitivity to CO2 at 1.8K per doubling, well below central IPCC estimates.
6. Does it matter that thunderstorms have become a rarity in England since 2006?
Not really – it’s the sort of “climate change” which is benign, and not that noticeable (had you noticed it – the Met Office don’t report on this type of thing). But it contradicts the “climate change meme” of the Earth’s climate becoming more violent (as does the lowest Accumulated Cyclone Energy levels for 40 years). And it’s another sign of the quiet sun, which is proving to be in the driving seat of climate. Solar maximum is due in 2013, so I am hoping to see a few more thunderstorms this summer.
I hope that you have found these answers interesting, and that you will be encouraged to think about teaching a balanced view of global warming in Geography. Because the only thing that is certain about it all is that the science isn’t settled.
Ric Werme says:
February 11, 2012 at 11:02 pm
I haven’t looked at your list closely
___________________________________________
Well may I ask that you do look at the list, reading each point in order, because your response is about something altogether different and irrelevant to the whole thrust of the argument.
All points need to be read in order. They are not stand alone points as you seem to think.
Ric Werme says:
February 11, 2012 at 11:02 pm
Umm, convection?
__________________________________________
You display a lack of knowledge of basic physics. I suggest you look up “Heat Transfer” in Wikipedia, because there can be no convection from a gas to a solid – only the processes I stated.
So I can see you are not likely to understand the physics nor spend the time to read the 100+ page peer-reviewed published paper by two top German physicists.
I would prefer to discuss this only with those who show an interest in learning and at least reading my post and some of the linked paper. So please refrain from making further irrelevant comments so I can save my time for those who are genuine in their interest.
[Lose the attitude. You don’t have to respond to every commenter, that is up to you, but all courteous comments here are valid and welcome ~jove, moderator]
Ric Werme says:
February 11, 2012 at 11:02 pm
Let me guess – these guys have been doing small scale lab experiments, not setting foot outside.
____________________________________________________________
Observations on ‘Backradiation’ During Nighttime and Daytime
http://principia-scientific.org/publications/New_Concise_Experiment_on_Backradiation.pdf
See – owe to Rich says:
February 12, 2012 at 12:40 am
eaving the sensitivity to CO2 at 1.8K per doubling
________________________________________________________
Good points, but you can reduce that 1.8K to zero now – see
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/11/open-thread-weekend-7/#comment-890609
Ric Werme says:
February 11, 2012 at 10:00 pm
Steve from Rockwood says:
February 11, 2012 at 4:29 pm
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Ric, thanks for the links. I’m checking them out now. So I had a little fun with the Dr. He could have written a more eloquent “I just can’t take it anymore” letter rather than the “dog stole my homework”. In reflection, perhaps he was just so frustrated with the content of the chapter he jumped ship mid-voyage. But I see this thread has been hijacked by a bunny rabbit so I’ll leave it there.
Zac says: February 11, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Mathematicians do indeed study knots. Knot theory is a sub-specialty of topology and is the study of mathematical knots. Mathematical knots differ from physical knots in that their ends are connected such that the “knot” cannot be “untied”. For more introductory info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_theory .
Doug Cotton says:
February 12, 2012 at 12:59 am
I’m very sorry – I though I was clear that I was talking from heat from solid ground to gaseous atmosphere and gaseous convection leading a temperature profile changing from a thin inversion to a well mixed region matching the adiabatic lapse rate.
Convection is pretty much useless for moving heat from air to ground.
I thumbed through Gerlich and Tscheuschner sometime in the past, I think when the 2009 version was discussed here. IIRC, I got the impression that their concept of the Greenhouse effect didn’t match mine or others. It is worth revisiting, but I have to write a presentation I’ll call “Elements of Climate Change” for our local Mensa groups annual gathering and later polish it to give to a NH House Committee looking at another RGGI repeal attempt.
I might offer your comments for the person introducing me at the Mensa gathering, it will get a good laugh.
BTW, the best way to suppress further comments from attention seeking clueless idiots is to simply ignore us. Once we’ve established we’re clueless idiots, then the community doesn’t need your reminder. Of course, requests like “please refrain from making further irrelevant comments” only act as a challenge. Now, had you suggested I not make comments at 2 AM, I’d fully agree with that. If you had you credited Gerlich and Tscheuschner in your 10 points, I wouldn’t have bothered to reply.
Oh yeah – I did check out Wikipedia’s notes on heat and energy in a previous discussion, and concluded that people have different idea of what heat really is. Back in high school, I got a 800 on the SAT Physics Achievement test. So while I passed understanding of basic physics back then, perhaps it’s time for the dreaded Mensa retest. (My favorite question was “There is a surgical kit under your desk. Remove your appendix.)
Ric Werme says:
February 11, 2012 at 10:00 pm
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Further in regards to sea level rise, Mörner claims that sea levels have not risen overall in the past 150 years and that currently there is no trend. He makes specific reference to a 1.1 mm rise from 1850 – 1940 and then no rise from 1940 – 1970. He goes on to say from 1992 – 2002 there was no trend to sea level, only a straight line (presumably he meant a slope of 0.0).
His comments are here:
http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerinterview.pdf
I tried to verify his claims, specifically here:
http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/past-current-future-sea-level-rise-graphs/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/06/sea-level-graphs-from-uc-and-some-perspectives/
What I have found is a (more or less) straight line of some 3 mm per year for quite awhile.
Any hints Ric on how to verify Mörner’s claims that sea level is not rising? I’m not a fan of skepticalscience but they do tear him up quite nicely.
@DirkH: Thanks for the info. Those were interesting, but, I have seen a few suggestions that the breeding portion of the fuel lifecycle is going to be problematic. If you remember the old hybrid approach to use un-enriched uranium (inject neutrons to sustain the reaction), the devil was in the details. I get a little worried to see so much hype on a technology without any discernible technical discussion or calculations of energy yield, etc. I guess the recent solar & wind debacle has me suspicious of all things “alternative”.
Steve from Rockwood says:
February 12, 2012 at 6:48 am
“What I have found is a (more or less) straight line of some 3 mm per year for quite awhile.
Any hints Ric on how to verify Mörner’s claims that sea level is not rising? I’m not a fan of skepticalscience but they do tear him up quite nicely.”
Satellite altimetry is difficult as the satellite sends a signal, receives the echo and has to make sense of it, as opposed to purely passive measurement-taking. So they calibrate that, and they use that subsiding Hongkong gauge as reference to have a nice trend for the glossy IPCC reports. Or something like that, according to Mörner, see below.
Before Jason/TOPEX there was 1.6 mm/yr; since 1993, when Jason/TOPEX started, it’s 3.3 mm/yr, and ENVISAT says something completely different (no change over the past 6 years or so, the lifetime of Envisat).
http://climatesanity.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/deception-from-nasa-satellites-are-true-cause-of-sea-level-rise/#comment-6607
THE GREAT SEA-LEVEL HUMBUG
There Is No Alarming Sea Level Rise!
by Nils-Axel Mörner
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles_2011/Winter-2010/Morner.pdf
Regarding exploding methane pockets; Is there not lightning on Titan?
JDN says:
February 12, 2012 at 7:48 am
“@DirkH: Thanks for the info. Those were interesting, but, I have seen a few suggestions that the breeding portion of the fuel lifecycle is going to be problematic. If you remember the old hybrid approach to use un-enriched uranium (inject neutrons to sustain the reaction), the devil was in the details. I get a little worried to see so much hype on a technology without any discernible technical discussion or calculations of energy yield, etc. I guess the recent solar & wind debacle has me suspicious of all things “alternative”.”
I agree completely. Probably for that reason China also builds a ton of Westinghouse AP 1000 light water reactors. Like the ones that will be build in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP1000
German media are out of their tiny little socialist minds about that. 🙂
Ric Werme, I always read your posts and have learned a great deal from them as they are always well presented thoughtful arguments. Just wondered if you had read the Slayer’s book? If not, perhaps you could tell me why not.
Steve from Rockwood says:
February 12, 2012 at 6:48 am
No, I don’t have good supporting notes, there are a several things I’d like to look into further:
1) Mörner’s ICCC talk emphasized how different sea level changes are, even at geologically stable places. (IIRC, he was very critical about some much touted data where he claims sensors are installed on fill that is settling, it’s not just glacial rebound or tectonic plate movement.)
2) Some of the data from around SE Asia he ascribes to wind and salinity changes, it would be nice to see how that varies with PDO, ENSO, and all the other pertinent Os.
3) Some sites that people claim have shown little change (e.g. the eastern Mediterranean, John Daly’s http://www.john-daly.com/deadisle/ etc) deserve more attention.
4) The biggy – Mörner’s claim
is easy to find on the web, but I’ve found essentially nothing that corroborates or invalidates it. OTOH, I haven’t looked very far. I found some references that the error in satellite radar sea level measurements is about 4 cm (IIRC), so we’re in the noise regime and long range averaging. If I looked into how people do radar altimetry, I suspect I’d be reading things for months. There ought to be GPS data that could provide alternative sea level data, but I haven’t stumbled across any. Ditto laser distance measurements to the Moon, I think that has sufficient resolution. Nor have I Emailed Mörner about any of this.
All in all, yet another topic I’d love to investigate more but simply don’t have time to do so. It seems like such a simple thing, but by the time political invective, unsubstantiated claims, and all the other crap that happens in this field gets added to noisy data, the fallback of patient waiting and watching becomes overwhelmingly attractive.
If there is indeed a 2.3mm/y adjustment it will show up soon enough. And then there’s the new Glacial Isostatic Adjustment (see http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/05/05/new-sea-level-page-from-university-of-colorado-now-up/ ):
With this, “Sea level” now means “sea volume” and that means any comparison to some vertical reference is utterly meaningless and we should be ashamed to even think that a level might have anything to do with a line scratched on some random piece of bedrock. What do I know? Obviously not simple physics! 🙂
I’d almost rather go back to the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus….
DirkH says:
February 12, 2012 at 7:50 am
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DirkH, thanks for the links. I so want to believe Mörner but I have to say it’s looking bad for his claims of no sea-level rise and no trend since 1850. See the graph below from the link you provided. OK, so the trend is 1.7 mm per year and not 3.2. But a trend is still a trend.
http://climatesanity.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/nasa-sea-level-data-ground2.jpg
The Cliff Mass Weather Blog is the best weather blog I have seen. His topic is mainly Seattle weather. Why can’t other weather sites give the excellent graphics and explanations he does?
http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/
Today’s entry is “Will we do anything about global warming? Should we?”
http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/02/will-we-do-anything-about-global.html
Cliff is convinced that CAGW is real, although there is still hope for him.
I propose that we compromise: we will allow global warming in the winter and put a cap on it in the summer. Just ask any snowbird in AZ escaping the winters in the northern states and Canada.
Ric Werme says:
February 12, 2012 at 9:19 am
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Thanks Ric. You would think a guy like Mörner could show a graph of sea-level rise with no trend over the past 150 years when if fact there are dozens of graphs out there to the contrary (ah the consensus is right after all! – not that I agree).
And then says
Haha, I’m there too. Plus I’d like to see Willis have another go at the N-Z paper. And I’d like to know why Jupiter and Saturn radiate more energy than they receive from the sun. Must be all the uranium that jorgekafkazar found when he was there.
David Ball says:
February 12, 2012 at 8:59 am
Thank you for the kind comments, I appreciate them greatly.
I assume you’re referring to Slaying the Sky Dragon…. Unfortunately, I have haven’t had time to read most of the books I’d like to (or some of the stacks of interesting papers I’ve printed). Between too many other hobbies and commitments, and altogether too many people posting interesting stuff here, there doesn’t seem to be time to pursue stuff I want to learn more about.
Heck, I haven’t even finished Bob Carter’s book, and I got that a couple years ago.
I also need to figure out what my role at WUWT should be. There are enough knowledgeable folks here now so a lot of stuff I could add someone else does too. (That’s fine – I can use the time!) I seem to be good at remembering the existence of old but relevant posts and am good at hunting down other relevant web pages. I’m always looking for connections between new observations that may help explain past puzzles. One thing I spent a fair amount of time on is helping Anthony keep things running well by working around some WordPress shortcomings (e.g. getting images like the ENSO meter in a fixed URL and documenting the HTML WordPress supports).
The rest of the time I try not to say too many things beyond my skill and knowledge. While I’m a carnivore, I like to keep my foot out of my mouth.
Few interesting items I found over at eruptions@wired… Smaller stratosphere eruptions can be much more rich in SO2 than larger eruptions. Large SO2 ice crystals can drop out quickly. Fine ash aerosols may have the ability to stay in the stratosphere longer than I thought. Tried to post in tips & notes but kept getting closed.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/332612/title/Small_volcanoes_add_up_to_cooler_climate
Small volcanoes add up to cooler climate
Airborne particles help explain why temperatures rose less last decade
By Alexandra Witze August 13th, 2011; Vol.180 #4 (p. 5)
Along with sulfur emitted by coal-burning power plants, volcanic particles spewed high in the atmosphere reduced the amount of global warming otherwise expected during the 2000s, a new study finds…
Volcanoes affect upwelling and ocean currents as static heat sources
NPG – Abstract – The effect of a localized geothermal heat source on deep water formation
http://www.nonlin-processes-geophys.net/18/841/2011/npg-18-841-2011.html
Explosive volcanic eruptions triggered by cosmic rays: Volcano as a bubble chamber 10.1016/j.gr.2010.11.004 : Gondwana Research | ScienceDirect.com
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1342937X10001966
http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/elsevier/explosive-volcanic-eruptions-triggered-by-cosmic-rays-volcano-as-a-3p053jxP0S
Ric, thanks for your response. My father has been at the forefront of this discussion from the outset and I was concerned that you had fallen for the smear campaign that would like you to believe that he is no longer at the pinnacle of the discussion. Having been at this important debate for longer than just about anyone, I would have thought that people would realize that his expertise and experience would still be of import. He is not out of the game and I implore you to give this some of your time. It would be a mistake to dismiss it outright.
I have said many things beyond my skill and knowledge regarding climate . My father has not. I am not my father. I am interested in the climate, but it is not my “area”. I do know BS when I see it posted, though.