Quote of the week – always happy to help

At WUWT, one thing we pride ourselves in is helping visitors learn about the issues and the science, even if those visitors should already know what these things mean. Take for example, Michael Tobis proprietor of “Only In it for the Gold” and “Planet3.0”, both heavily pro-warming sites. Readers may remember Mr. Tobis from his famous F-word Fusillade.

Mike came to WUWT to ask a simple question, and of course, we are always happy to help him out.

Original comment asking to define “CAGW” here.

Honestly, I thought most everyone (especially the bloggers) in this debate knew this term, but apparently not. So, this post will make sure everyone does now.

CAGW is an abbreviation for Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming

For more abbreviations, see our WUWT Glossary Page

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February 1, 2012 7:24 am

“Lead squirrel, James Hansen, predicted that Manhattan would be under water by now.”
Really? Reference please?

TerryMN
February 1, 2012 7:27 am

Tobis: To my knowledge it is not used by actual climate scientists in any context.
Books by:
James Hansen: Storms of My Grandchildren: The Truth About the Coming Climate Catastrophe and Our Last Chance to Save Humanity
Michael Mann: Dire Predictions: Understanding Global Warming – The Illustrated Guide to the Findings of the IPCC
Archer and Rahmstorf: The Climate Crisis: An Introductory Guide to Climate Change
Tyler Volk: CO2 Rising: The World’s Greatest Environmental Challenge
Need more “knowledge” ??

Jeff Alberts
February 1, 2012 7:27 am

I created a computer model to determine what CAGW stands for. I ran the model 1000 times and averaged the results. CAGW means: Orange Water Given Bucket of Plaster. See? Perfect!

February 1, 2012 7:36 am

Since y’all are such expert hairsplitters, I should not have said “Does someone have an alternative definition which people actually advocate?” after admitting that such people probably exist.
Does someone have an alternative definition which influential people actually advocate?
I am not saying that there isn’t a useful concept in here somewhere. I just would like to know whether we are discussing an extremist position of no influence, or a position which actually includes the bulk of scientific consensus opinion, or something in between. Otherwise it is just a rhetorical device.

Bob Moss
February 1, 2012 7:42 am

@Tobis
The last IPCC report is the definition of CAGW.
I agree with you that it has never been “coherently expressed as a hypothesis.”

Jeff Alberts
February 1, 2012 7:42 am

I am not saying that there isn’t a useful concept in here somewhere. I just would like to know whether we are discussing an extremist position of no influence, or a position which actually includes the bulk of scientific consensus opinion, or something in between. Otherwise it is just a rhetorical device.

You’re so right, Michael! Climate Change is just a rhetorical device for mass governmental control, and to keep poor countries poor.

Jeff Alberts
February 1, 2012 7:46 am

Tobis:

Does someone have an alternative definition which influential people actually advocate?

How about Maurice Strong? Actually I don’t know if he really believes there is a climate catastrophe going on, but he certainly wants to use the meme to de-industrialize the west. Don’t bother asking for a cite, I’m sure you know it already. There are others who are influential who believe the same thing; Al Gore, David Suzuki, You (though how influential you are remains to be seen).

February 1, 2012 8:36 am

TerryMN seems to capture the sense of many of you with the list of book titles from climate scientists.
Would it be fair to suggest that “CAGW” means “the proposition that continued accumulation of greenhouse gases at or above current (ca. 2010) rates over the next century is sufficiently disruptive to climate that it would produce widespread, unambiguously catastrophic consequences”?
If that or something similar is the definition, without any additional political baggage, I think it represents a legitimate and reasonably objective scientific hypothesis. I believe that the consensus of informed opinion would show that such a proposition is deemed much more likely than not to be true.
The key poitn for me is that this makes no statement about preferred policy other than the obvious implication that we ought to find some way to avoid such an outcome. Further, I think we could agree that most of you disagree with me about the likelihood that the proposition is true. This would help separate the political from the scientific aspects of the conversation.
If you accept that definition, why not add it to the list of acronyms so we can properly nail down what we are talking about when people around here use the term?
If not, what do you propose?

Andrew
Reply to  Michael Tobis
February 1, 2012 12:08 pm

Michael Tobis
Michael Tobis says:
February 1, 2012 at 9:20 am
“The IPCC report is a literature review, not a hypothesis.
As for “Control All Global Wealth” Count me (and everybody I know) as opposed.”
Michael Tobis…please please please I sincerely beg you to look away from the trees and step back and look at the entire forest.
Sir, I respectfully submit to you my hypothesis, or one of them anyway…
Please note, snark and sarcasm is being filtered as much as I can for this comment.
The scientists…the VAST majority are good people…trying their best to do what they love, be it in academia, business or government. The problem as I see it is this:
Lets assume the ‘scientist’ are actually doing good ethical science.
Who is the science for? Who is the end user? In some cases it gets into the hands of politicians and Wall Street folks correct? What do they do about it? Do you trust them? Do you trust Goldman Sachs? Do you trust the Chicago Merc? Do you trust Warren Buffett? Do you trust BP? What about George Soros?
How about when we mix politicians and business people…Do you trust Al Gore? Either Bush? Is Obama the same guy you voted for? Has he done everything you hoped he would? Look, Michael, I tried to balance out the political spectrum to be fair. Heck, everyone saw the video of Newt and Nancy stroking each others Speakers gavels a few years ago in a AGW PSA and now they are fighting again. What gives?
Here is my point Professor, the scientists…at least most of them are but pawns for the Chess Masters but you guys don’t even know it!
I think…prove me wrong.
Andrew

February 1, 2012 8:37 am

CONTROL ALL GLOBAL WEALTH.
I’m serious.

February 1, 2012 9:20 am

The IPCC report is a literature review, not a hypothesis.
As for “Control All Global Wealth” Count me (and everybody I know) as opposed.
Nobody is cutting climate scientists into this hypothetical cabal anyway, so it doesn’t explain our motivation. I know some of you think it’s possible to take, e.g., NSF grant money and just stuff it in your pocket, but it really doesn’t work like that. Talk to an actual scientist, in any field, and ask them.
Or read this:
http://profmandia.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/taking-the-money-for-granted-%E2%80%93-part-i/

G. Karst
February 1, 2012 9:52 am

Andrew says:
February 1, 2012 at 2:15 am

Thank-you so much for the “let me google that for you” animation construction page. I didn’t know of it’s existence. GK

Roger Knights
February 1, 2012 10:29 am

John says:
February 1, 2012 at 6:55 am
Lead squirrel, lemming James Hansen, predicted that Manhattan would be under water by now.

“Lemming” adds alliteration.

Christian Bultmann says:
December 9, 2011 at 10:05 pm
It is amazing…’People running around with signs saying ‘the world is coming to an end’ are considered the sane ones by the MSM
———–
Richard S Courtney says:
August 8, 2011 at 12:37 pm
We all know that the books of the IPCC are the Bible of man-made global climate change. And – according to the books of scientific revelation in that Bible – the atmosphere was in a state of Eden before human industrial civilization. Then humans began to consume the forbidden fruit of fossil fuels, so the atmosphere became contaminated with an excess of carbon dioxide. Humans continue to practice the sin of industrial civilization and, therefore, the contamination of the atmosphere continues to increase. As a result, our civilization is doomed by our sin as surely as Sodom and Gomorrah.
The world will warm with the result that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are set to roam the world spreading pestilence, war, famine, and death. We can stop them from destroying the world as we know it by turning from our sin of industrial civilization. But the sins of the fathers are weighed upon their children even unto the seventh generation because our sin has already added carbon dioxide to the atmosphere and it will continue to wreak its havoc for centuries to come. We must repent and turn from our consumption of the forbidden fruit to avoid its worst effects on our children and our children’s children.
That is the prevailing faith which is being spread by many proselytes and has been adopted as the State Religion in many places, notably the European Union.
But I am here to proclaim the message in the song. “The things that you’re liable to read in the Bible; it ain’t necessarily so.”
———————
[Re Stern Report unacknowledged revision; the Stern Report is a good example of CAWG:]
Richard (13:36:08) :
They fudged the data, fudged the score
When it didn’t add up, they fudged some more
The seas will rise, the winds will roar
Floods and waves will ravage the shore
Just sell the doom to those silly men
But if challenged, simply divide by ten
——————–
Josh (14:06:43) :
AGW = Alarmists Gone Wild
POUNCER (13:44:37) :
AGW = Al Gore’s Whoppers
Robert E. Phelan says:
December 29, 2010 at 6:30 am
Close enough for government work.
On April 16, on WUWT, commenter Thom Scrutchin suggested a new acronym:
“I would like to make a suggestion. We should stop using the acronym AGW since it is becoming clearer and clearer that AGW doesn’t exist. The new acronym should be AGWA for Anthropogenic Global Warming Alarmism. Since that is not a scientific claim, I can appeal to the new consensus to prove that AGWA really does exist.”

Roger Knights
February 1, 2012 10:31 am

Here’s a summary of the catastrophes that catastrophists have warned us about:

John from MN (13:19:01) :
On of my favorite made up things caused by AGW is the mass exticttion of millions of species. Even though nothing much lives in the Artic and Billions of life-forms thrive at warm equator. Or http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
A Complete List Of Things Supposedly
Caused By Global Warming
Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, Africa devastated, Africa in conflict, African aid threatened, African summer frost, aggressive weeds, air pressure changes, airport malaria, Agulhas current, Alaska reshaped, moves, allergy season longer, alligators in the Thames, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, animals shrink, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Arctic warming (not), Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer shortage, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird strikes, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds decline (Wales), birds driven north, birds return early, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, Black Hawk down, blood contaminated, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brain eating amoebae, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain one big city, Britain Siberian, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, coast beauty spots lost, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, crabgrass menace, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid’s health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, death rate increase (US), deaths to reach 6 million, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, disappearance of coastal cities, disasters, diseases move from animals to humans, diseases move north, dog disease, Dolomites collapse, dozen deadly diseases, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, possums, walrus, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, salamanders, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever, figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish bigger, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish head north, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flames stoked, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), football team migration, footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, geese decline in Hampshire, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier grows (California), glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, golf course to drown, golf Masters wrecked, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, haggis threatened, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, health risks, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice age, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, icebergs, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of crabgrass, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of king crabs, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers’ income increased (surprise surprise!), lawyers want more, legionnaires’ surge, lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, locust plagues suppressed, Lopsided Earth, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, Melanoma decline, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountaineers fears, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean acidification faster, ocean dead zones unleashed, ocean deserts expand,
ocean waves speed up, oceans noisier, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, penguin chicks frozen, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plants lose protein, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears deaf, polar bears drowning, polar bears eating themselves, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, prostitution, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, radars taken out, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, reindeer endangered, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, Russia under pressure, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, Salmon Decline, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, soaring food prices, societal collapse, soil change, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid population explosion, squid tamed, squirrels reproduce earlier, stingray invasion, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tigers eat people, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, truffles down, turtles crash, turtle feminised, turtles lay earlier, UFO sightings, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, uprooted – 6 million, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, violin decline, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, war between US and Canada, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales lose weight, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine – harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine – more English, wine – England too hot, wine -German boon, wine – no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World War 4, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

Gary Hladik
February 1, 2012 10:40 am

Michael Tobis says (February 1, 2012 at 8:36 am): ‘Would it be fair to suggest that “CAGW” means “the proposition that continued accumulation of greenhouse gases at or above current (ca. 2010) rates over the next century is sufficiently disruptive to climate that it would produce widespread, unambiguously catastrophic consequences”?’
Not bad, although it should be amended to blame humanity for the greenhouse gasses. Otherwise there’s no “A” in “CAGW”. Of course it’s not as sexy as “…the f**king survival of the f**king planet is at f**king stake.”*, but at least it’s just as wrong. 🙂
*http://init.planet3.org/2011/04/moshers-team.html

Babsy
February 1, 2012 11:17 am

Michael Tobis says:
February 1, 2012 at 8:36 am
You do understand that temperature leads CO2, right?

February 1, 2012 11:28 am

Tobis: To my knowledge it is not used by actual climate scientists in any context.

That is like saying con men do not refer to their “proposals” as “scams” when trying to sell it to the mark.
It is a simple phrase that summarizes the intended message presented by the accumulated scare stories trotted out over the last couple decades so we don’t have to refer to a list the size of a phone book.
He is playing you guys. He knows full well what it is, and is trying to build up a red herring argument about nothing. The question what is he trying to distract everyone from?
Larry

February 1, 2012 11:30 am

I think most people stipulate that the accumulation is anthropogenic.
I plead guilty to being extremely angry at the people who keep trying to find earth-shattering or even mildly relevant scandals in the mundane stolen emails when nothing remotely relevant to the scope and scale of the problem was revealed.
I’m not alone. Somebody had to come out and start yelling. Admittedly, “…the f**king survival of the f**king planet is at f**king stake” is a bit exaggerated for effect. But you guys indeed had better be really sure of yourselves that we are completely wrong. Otherwise you are being hugely irresponsible.
You all can keep bringing that up if you want. Or you can engage on substance. Your call.

February 1, 2012 11:41 am

“You do understand that temperature leads CO2, right?”
That’s a long story. I’ll put it on my list for a serious article. I have not been happy with any popular expositions on the subject.
Short version:
If warming causes CO2 releases on a glacial cycle time scale, as it indeed appears, that is an amplifying feedback. And indeed, we need an amplifying feedback, because the direct forcing and ice albedo effect don’t seem to be enough to account for the quaternary glacial cycle.
That does not constitute good news.
However, how temperature increase causes CO2 releases on that time scale is not nailed down (to my knowledge). It is among the biggest open questions in physical climatology.
Perhaps the mechanism is tapped out somehow in the interglacials, which would make the prognosis on a multi-centruy time scale somewhat less severe. Understanding the glacial cycle is incomplete and this is a major reason to keep working at it.
hth

Babsy
February 1, 2012 12:09 pm

Michael Tobis says:
February 1, 2012 at 11:41 am
It isn’t a long story. One of three things can happen; temperature can lead CO2, temperature can lag CO2 (the basis for alarmism), or temperature and CO2 are independent of one another.

Rational Debate
February 1, 2012 12:15 pm

re post by: Michael Tobis says: February 1, 2012 at 9:20 am

The IPCC report is a literature review, not a hypothesis. As for “Control All Global Wealth” Count me (and everybody I know) as opposed. Nobody is cutting climate scientists into this hypothetical cabal anyway, so it doesn’t explain our motivation. I know some of you think it’s possible to take, e.g., NSF grant money and just stuff it in your pocket, but it really doesn’t work like that. Talk to an actual scientist, in any field, and ask them.

Please don’t be so disingenuous – or open your eyes, as the case may be. I daresay not one scientist would claim that increased availability of grant funds isn’t a boon to their field and the scientists in it. Every scientist knows full well that their very career and therefore livelihood depends on grant money – and the more the better their life will be. Just ask James Hansen who has apparently gained, on top of his six figure government salary, something like an additional $1.6 million over the past few years ($1.3?).
Every professor knows that difficulty obtaining grants means a very stressful work environment with the department head and possibly dean constantly riding your back. That conversely, increased grant money means the ability to do the research you want, to hire more grad students thus making success more likely even if you have to rework the starting hypothesis to the point it’s almost unrecognizable from the original. Which means it will be that much easier to get future grants, be invited to contribute to other researchers papers, etc., etc., etc. All of which means more citations, quicker and easier route to tenure, enhanced respect and recognition in your field (what scientists doesn’t yearn for that?). Even more, everyone knows it also means that there is more money available to fund trips to professional conferences which are typically held in sweet vacation spots.
It’s tendentious to play the ‘can’t stuff the money in your pocket’ meme, when even the majority of grad students know increased grant money means ability to buy better equipment (which can later be used for other research too of course), enhanced career and greatly enhanced earnings, salary, trips, respect, success, and even huge opportunities should one decide they want to transition out of academia.
So no, unless one is willing to commit a crime and misuse funds (which of course some do), liberal grant money doesn’t mean you can directly grab the actual funds to stuff ones’ pocket – but everyone knows that one stands to make huge gains in virtually every aspect if one can pull in grant money.
If they work hard, and the research is conducted using sound scientific technique, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with this – it’s a good thing. However, I seriously doubt there’s a scientist alive who doesn’t also know that some display far more integrity in terms of how they apply grant funds, while others are master at finding ways to word the grants or finagle the funds such that they skate the edge of legality, just staying legal, and yet using more of the money for pleasurable aspects rather than hard research.
Meanwhile, MSM article and after article along with the words of top ‘climate scientists’ as displayed in Climategate 1 & 2 put paid to your implication that scientists (especially ‘climate scientists’) have no interest in global control. Are you really claiming that a push to limit human CO2 production isn’t a massive control on every human it’s imposed on? Please. It even extends past energy to the very diet we eat, type of house we live in and virtually everything in that home, right down to the very light bulb we use.
Trying to imply that there’s no financial gain or power or control involved in all of this for the scientist – and that supposedly all scientists would agree if asked – or that this would require some nefarious secretive ‘cabal’ rather than simple human nature and the facts of the system, all while using weasel words that give you wiggle room if someone calls you on it, is just, well, disturbing and ridiculous.

Power Grab
February 1, 2012 12:16 pm

I’m not sure this whole question-and-answer period isn’t simply an excuse for getting the WUWT faithful to come up in search engines associated with pro-CAGW verbage…let alone giving Mr. Tobias the chance to be found on the world’s favorite science blog.

Power Grab
February 1, 2012 12:19 pm

Oh yeah – one more thing – if the pro-CAGW folks aren’t successful in their scheme to kill off 80% (or more) of the world’s population, don’t they realize that keeping the poor countries poor is the best way to keep them producing babies? Talk about your unintended consequences!

Andrew
Reply to  Power Grab
February 1, 2012 1:06 pm

Power Grab
Read up on the Progressive Movement in the 1890’s through the 1940’s. Read up on the rise of the Eugenics movement and how it manifested itself into medical care, psychiatric care…as the Kennedy Clan about lobotomy’s.
Note how Eugenics were applied in various countries. Look at the US Progressive Movement of the 30’s and there views on what was going on in Europe.
Look at who is behind the restrictions placed on GMO foods and the use of DDT in Africa.
Now…what were you saying about ‘your unintended consequences!’
Lose the ‘un’….(wow ironic..un…UN…now that was truly UNintended, but rather sardonic…I think)

February 1, 2012 1:24 pm

Michael Tobis,
Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming (CAGW) infers that Anthropogenic (human) sources of trace atmospheric gases are and will cause the Warming of the Globe, that in turn will have Catastrophic consequences for all life on the entire planet.
The weak hypothetical case of CAGW can be defined further by reading questions like yours and the various nonsensical dribble from those who are proponents of CAGW and their constant re-branding of it.

thelastdemocrat
February 1, 2012 1:42 pm

I thought AGW = Anthropotomac Global Warming.

Gary Hladik
February 1, 2012 1:51 pm

Michael Tobis says (February 1, 2012 at 11:30 am): “I think most people stipulate that the accumulation is anthropogenic.”
Which is why the explicit accusation belongs in any definition of the term “CAGW”.
“But you guys indeed had better be really sure of yourselves that we are completely wrong. Otherwise you are being hugely irresponsible.”
Pascal’s Wager again, AKA “The Precautionary Principle” AKA “The f**king sky is f**king falling!” Given the religious nature of Pascal’s original argument, it’s quite fitting that CAGW believers resort to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
“You all can keep bringing that [“…the f**king planet…”] up if you want. Or you can engage on substance. Your call.”
Actually, it was Michael Tobis who brought that up (referenced above). If Mr. Tobis has some substance to offer, perhaps Anthony can provide space for a guest article on the “science” behind CAGW.