From Bishop Hill, such a short story that it is difficult to excerpt, and given the importance, and the continuation reference to the story I broke on WUWT, I don’t think he’ll mind if I repost in entirety.
He writes:
Richard Tol reports from the IPCC WGII lead author meeting in San Francisco:
…the IPCC member states have ruled on freedom of information legislation. Specifically, it has been decided that FoI does not apply to IPCC material. This is false. FoI is national legislation. These laws can only be interpreted by the relevant courts. These laws can only be changed by the relevant parliaments. The civil servants that speak on behalf of their countries have no right to usurp FoI legislation, and the IPCC has no say in this matter.
This of course is a continuation of this story.
George Monbiot was winning considerable plaudits on the Dark Matter thread for his strong stand on freedom of information. He is also, of course, a fan of the IPCC. It would be interesting to see what he makes of this.
Richard Tol says:
December 15, 2011 at 12:22 am
@David
“It appears that the IPCC’s confidentiality guidance document covers itself and cannot be disclosed. The IPCC intends to publish the first- and second-order drafts that are sent for expert and government review, the comments on those drafts, and the responses to those comments.
There is a lot more material, including the selection and allocation of authors, the outline of the report, and the zeroth-order draft and comments, that the IPCC will try to keep off limits.”
Thank you Richard, and you are quite helpfull. Your comment on what is not on “the list” is very cogent, but the operative word hear is it “appears’, and both you and Richard B have a very difficult time being percise, but apparently there is a percise list which we, the people of the world world who are or may be affected by every policy recommendation this unelected group of Blackbeards make, cannot see what this list consists of !! Yet some private tallbloke in Britain was certainly not allowed to make a list for the police on what to provide them when they stormed into his private home and took his personal property, despite the fact that he recieves zero Govt funds and makes zero recommendations to change how governments around the world operate. And some posters here think this is fine and a boring matter, nothing to see here, just move along.
Aw hell no, you really didn’t go there! The first rule of analogy is to create one when you are not drinking or on drugs, or, if you are perhaps too young as your Nom de Plume suggests. If you’re actually not a Lazy Teenager but a full-grown adult, well, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
The original poster suggested a nation with an FOIA law, have that law apply to an international organization, on the soil of, and which is in large part funded by that nation, and, which contains some members that are citizens of that nation.
Your analogy describes a historical event in which rabid citizens of one sovereign nation invades the embassy which, according to diplomacy, is the sovereign soil of another sovereign nation.
[original poster] :: Sovereign nation >> FOIA request >> International Organization
[Lazy Teenager] :: Sovereign nation >> INVADES >> Sovereign nation
In your epic fail analogy you attempt to disparage the FOIA process (a Freedom of Information request!) and you elevate the United Nations organization to the status of a sovereign nation while simultaneously downplaying the INVASION of a sovereign nation (yours?) by another. Way to take a big giant dump on the USA. Thanks.
Anything to thwart the FOIA process (Freedom of Information request!) I guess.
I’ll agree that you could go on and on. You just did it again (“Russian Embassy”) proving that first epic fail analogy was no fluke. Your UN is *not* a nation. An FOIA request is not comparable to one nation invading another. You have offered an insightful glimpse into your troubled thought process here. All of you wannabe world citizens ought to ponder this.
Oh how I hope to live to see a day when that building is razed and the rubble bulldozed into the East River.
Blade, nice lazy smack down, I doubt he responds. I also notice John Billings and others have not responded to my comments with Richard Toll showing why this “nothing to see here, move along” thought process is absurd.
“Shut up!”, they explained.
This is real easy to fix.
If the IPCC feels they are above the law, then they must be above taking any taxpayer money received directly or indirectly from the UN or any national/state/local governments.
Accordingly, all funding should be through private NGOs/corporations/private environmental groups/individual donations, etc.
Problem solved.
In the USA FOIA never applied to IPCC in the first place. It applies *only* to governmental agencies. You can’t serve a FOIA request on a government contractor either, only on the government itself. So if the DoE receives an IPCC document, then you can FOIA DoE to obtain it.
If you know they have it. There’s the real trick.
The FOI act in the USA ought to be powerful enough to extract whatever information is available including the emails.
After all, it was used to release onto the internet all the CIA language training material on the grounds that it had all been funded by the tax payer.
There are some things that will always rightly be difficult to access but nothing to do with climate change produced for and by the IPCC or any of the contributors falls into that category.
It is especially necessary considering that these people purport to be scientists and it is a necessary part of the scientific process.
Incidentally, does any one else worry that the world is being held to ransom b some of the most technologically challenged scientists imaginable? Harry’s notes reveal the lack of computer nous, an apparent lack of some essential skils and the latest emails seem to suggest that some of them (e.g. Phil Jones) can not even use Excel…. what? Can’t use excel and we are to believe this guy is competent to handle data arrays? manipulate data and derive meaningful conclusions from that data?
All this IPCC garbage is a conflict with Britannia’s needing ever more loot to avoid liquidation. England’s national debt is 1000% of their GDP. Queen lizard needs to have weekly garage sales and property auctions to maintain her serpentine grandeur. Al ‘D in Natural Science’ Gore has convinced her that he is a wizard and can convince the masses with smoke, mirrors, and HAARP weather warfare against farmers, to prostrate themselves in terror and run for comfort and assurance to the queen’s wizards for security like in the old days. The British royals are so obsolete that they still believe this crap. The managers of the satellite AND ground weather stations providing data for the IPCC have disavowed readings because of equipment failures and black asphalt parking lots and new industrial air conditioners placed next to weather stations. We should all advise the IPCC to just shut up and leave before we lose our tempers, unless they want prison camp life with ther wanker buddies.
Being “detained indefinitely” is more appropriate and humane than most of the alternatives practiced before international law began to mandate “indefinite detention” in preference to those inhumane alternatives. The President and Commander-in-Chief has always had the Constitutional authority and the linternational egal obligation to suspend the writ of habeus corpus with respect to prisoners of war, whether those prisoners of war are lawful combatants or unlawful combatants. The period of detention is determined by the period of time required for the sovereign belligerents to cease the hostilities and restore peaceful diplomatic relations, exchange prisoners of war, and/or parole prisoners of war. It is illegal under international law to prosecute a belligerent prisoner of war for the commission of any alleged crimes during hostilities, except for a violation/s of the international law of armed conflict. Only after the cessation of hostilities and restoration of peaceful diplomatic relations may a belligerent prisoner of war be prosecuted for alleged violations under civil criminal law.
D.Patterson, apparently you have not read the papers recently. JFK and bobby Kennedy’s assasssinations, [snip] weather attacks, The ongoing unchecked looting of the stock markets and hard earned cash of the producers of America, Fukushima, the intentional blow out of the oil well in the GoM. And on and on. There is anarchy for the Bush criminal cabal in the U.S.. Their ongoing attacks, including leaving the Hillary Clinton state department graciously holding the bag with ‘fast and furious’, as well as Hillary getting up to lie for 14 minutes straight about a U.S. Navy SEAL detachment killing Osama bin laden for the second time before they murdered the U.S. Navy SEALS involved so they would not talk. Hillary used to launder cocaine money for Bush41 back in the late 1970s and 1980s. Your assessment is hopelessly naive. When I went to college, I tried for the ‘A’s after I decided to improve my grades. That takes work. Your presentation was nice and fluffy-friendly, but I have benefitted more from eating those awful puffed rice bisquits. You seem bright enough, Let us dig. Our congress sits at less than 9% approval. That means they have been setting a bad example for years and finally got caught.. The above mentioned ongoing crimes need to be addressed and remedied. Congress has been mewling and prancing for bribes to the exclusion of all else for years now. What a damned mess.
Study ‘Project Monarch’ as much as I have and you will desperately want to erase what you just wrote. Psychopaths run the show and they have all the guns, and guillotines in the camps. If you kiss a psychopath’s ass and do whatever they say, they will wait awhile before killing and eating you.
But don’t feel bad here, we are all puppies in this box.
FACT: The managers of the temperature sensors insatellites and on the ground all rejected their own data. there is no global warming and it all is a fraud. WE NEED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND NO MORE DOUBLE-TALKSPLITTING OF HAIRS AND other verbosities. GLOBAL WARMING IS BULL____!
John Billings says:
December 14, 2011 at 6:54 pm
I merely pointed out that you and all the others making reference to “the cause” etc were ignoring the elephant in the room: that this story has ignited all hell and fury based on an unsourced blog. That’s all.
Right, the following friendly reminder from wg1 to Anthony as a potential Expert Reviewer was already quite enough to indicate the ipcc’s intention to now try to officially hide all of their alleged “science”/”materials”:
Expert Reviewers are kindly reminded that all materials provided from
this website are available for the sole purpose of the Expert Review
and may not be cited, quoted, or distributed.
Which, iirc, is also a change from the ipcc’s previously stated guidelines which Steve McIntyre elucidated a while back, partly because the ipcc was not even following them! The preservation and availability of all ipcc interaction between the Authors and the next level Oversight members was a big issue. The impermeable “cloud”, or its effective non-existence, was already being alleged. Previously, McIntyre had to pull teeth just to get the Reviewers’ comments made public as per the ipcc’s own guidelines.
the carbon tax and global warming FAIL is half-wit speak for the queen lizard is indebt 10 times the GDP and we have to steal to make ends meet.This is pig-splat. All thy need to do to free the people of earth from their miscreant woe is for them to hold yard sales every weeknd for the next 500 years and sell off their land holdings. After totally bungling foreign policy duties, Chaalllz and queen lizard will be lucky to live to see Willyam and Kevin grow out of those ‘Me First’ sashes. Too many people on this earth would justifiably love to see Buckingham palace and the City of London instantly fried. Now this group increasingly includes more and more U.S. military personnel and knowledgeable civilians.