
Apparently, Monckton is a member of the House of Lords, according to constitutional lawyer in England.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m just in it for the popcorn sales. That said, here’s the plot summary.
A lot of the alarmist side of blogosphere (especially John Cook at SkS and Tim Lambert at Deltoid) spent a lot of time trying to distract from the science presented during Lord Monckton’s summer tour in Australia. Of course, Monckton himself made some ugly distractions at the outset, with a poorly chosen comparison of Ross Garnaut.
That row aside, basically as the tour went on, they didn’t like the message, so they attacked the man.
Here’s how the peerage title tiff got started. Responding to some small outrage in the southern hemisphere, and some emails that came his way as a result, Dave Beamish, Clerk of the UK Parliaments, posted up a letter on the House of Lords’ official website telling Lord Monckton not to call himself a member of the House of Lords. Trouble is, Dave had gotten it wrong.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands of articles, commentaries and blog postings were aimed at Monckton, for having answered an Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio interviewer in August 2011 by saying he was a member of the House of Lords, “but without the right to sit or vote”.
This is sort of like being an “ex US senator”. They enjoy certain rights and privileges of the once held office, like getting to use the library and automobile parking in the senate, but they don’t get to vote of course. In England, these sorts of privileges get passed down hereditarily, such as in Monckton’s case. While “hereditary US Senator” probably wouldn’t fly in the USA, England and its Monarchy has its ways of tradition that don’t translate to such expectations in other countries.
Monckton, on returning from Australia from his tour this autumn, consulted Hugh O’Donoghue, a leading constitutional lawyer at Carmelite Chambers, overlooking the River Thames just a mile downstream from the Houses of Parliament. His question: “Am I or am I not a member of the House of Lords?”
O’Donoghue, who specializes in difficult human-rights cases and Peerage law, spent months carefully researching Monckton’s question. He says Lord Monckton “was and is correct at all points”. The conclusion of his 11-page opinion (see PDF at bottom of this article) , reviewing 1000 years of Peerage law, is clear on the issue:
“Lord Monckton’s statement that he is a member of the House of Lords, albeit without the right to sit or vote, is unobjectionable. His claim is not a false or misleading claim. It is legitimate, proportionate, and reasonable. Likewise, Lord Monckton was correct when he wrote to the US Congress that ‘Letters Patent granting Peerages, and consequently membership [of the House of Lords], are the personal gift of the Monarch. Only a specific law can annul a grant. The 1999 Act was a general law.’ He legitimately drew attention to a parliamentary answer by no less a personage than the Leader of the House, making it plain that the Act was a general law and not a particular law that might have had the effect of revoking Letters Patent. We now have the recent authority of the High Court, in the Mereworth case, for Lord Monckton’s assertion that the 1999 Act did not revoke or annul his Letters Patent. Unless and until such revocation takes place, Lord Monckton remains a member of the House of Lords, and he is fully entitled to say so.”
Lord Monckton has sent copies of the Opinion by registered mail to the Lord Speaker (Baroness d’Souza) and to the chairman of the Privileges Committee (Lord Brabazon of Tara). I have a copy too.
Monckton said:
“I am awaiting with interest the response of the soi-disant ‘authorities’ at the House of Lords to Mr. O’Donoghue’s definitive statement of the law as he sees it. At the very least, it is surely clear that I am entitled, in what is supposed to be a free society, to speak freely about my point of view.
“Dave Beamish has made a prize ass of himself. This criminous clerk has brought the already-tarnished House of Lords and the ancient office of clericus Parliamentorum into further disrepute. His position is now untenable. He must resign at once, or be fired by the House. I was embarrassed by having had to deflect journalists’ questions about whether Dave has been in league with climate-extremist lobby groups. I was not and am not in a position to answer those questions.
“I hope that, for the sake of sparing further harm to elderly and vulnerable family members who have been getting hate-mail as a result of Dave’s unprecedented and extraordinary abuse of his office, the House ‘authorities’ – if that is the right word – will have the common courtesy and good sense to take down his offending and offensive letter from Parliament’s website and replace it with an apology.”
To people outside of England, who don’t deal in formal titles of hereditary peerage, this might look like an overblown egotistic row . But in England, such things are considered very important and are a tradition of position that affects families and reputations going back centuries.
In short, Lord Monckton is not amused, less so at the boys down under than at the Clerk of Parliaments, Dave Beamish, in London. He adds in his letter:
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The Summary of Mr. O’Donoghue’s learned Opinion reads as follows:
“I am asked to consider whether The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley was correct when, in a recent radio interview in Australia, he answered the question ‘Are you a member of the House of Lords?’ by saying, ‘Yes, but without the right to sit or vote.’ My conclusion is that Lord Monckton’s answer was and is correct at all points. We have the authority of two Law Lords in the Privileges Committee that the meaning of the words ‘membership of the House’ in the Act is confined to the right to sit and vote. The implication is that in all other respects excluded Hereditary Peers remain members of the House. Also, the Letters Patent that created Peerages such as that of Monckton of Brenchley have not been revoked, and we have the recent authority both of the Leader of the House and of the High Court for that. Though the House of Lords Act 1999 purported to remove ‘membership of the House of Lords’ from excluded Hereditary Peers including Lord Monckton’s late father, its constitutionality is questionable. Peerages entail membership of the House. Lord Monckton is correct to state that he does not at present have the right to sit or vote, though if the 1999 Act is unconstitutional the excluded Hereditary Peers are unlawfully excluded. Therefore, Lord Monckton remains a Member not only of the Peerage but also of the House of Lords, save only that he cannot for now sit or vote there, and he was and is fully entitled to say so.”
The ancient common-law offense of wilful misfeasance in a public office gives the citizen the right of redress against a defalcating public official who might otherwise persist in his crime with impunity. In the present case, the rap-sheet might read as follows:
“You, Dave Beamish, Clerk of the Parliaments, of the House of Lords, London, SW1A 0PW, are charged with wilful misfeasance in a public office, contrary to common law, in that, on a date unknown in July or August 2011, in London, you did knowingly and without lawful excuse cause to be posted on the House of Lords’ official website a letter to The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley falsely stating that the said Viscount Monckton of Brenchley is not entitled to say that he is a member of the House of Lords, and that upon repeated request to desist you wilfully and harmfully persisted in the said misfeasance.”
Section 21 of the Data Protection Act 1998 creates the offense of unlawfully processing unregistered data. Here, the rap-sheet might read:
“You, Dave Beamish, Clerk of the Parliaments, of the House of Lords, London, SW1A 0PW, are charged with unlawfully processing unregistered data, contrary to Section 21, Data Protection Act 1998, in that, on a date unknown in July or August 2011, in London, you did knowingly, harmfully and without lawful excuse cause sensitive personal information about The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley to be published on the House of Lords’ official website.”
Article 8-1 of the European Human Rights Convention, enacted by the Human Rights Act 1998 in the UK, gives everyone “the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence” and states plainly that (except on grounds manifestly inapplicable here) “there shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right”.
Under Freedom of Information law the disclosure of the Clerk’s letter to Monckton is a misfeasance at least fourfold. The Act prohibits disclosure of the Clerk’s letter in that the disclosure is a breach of an enactment (the Human Rights Act); and a breach of a Community obligation (the EU has adopted the human rights convention); and the Act exempts disclosures of sensitive personal information (the Clerk could have given his opinion about excluded Hereditary Peers without mentioning Monckton by name); and exempts disclosures of confidential information (it was calculated to cause harm). Breaches of the Human Rights Act and of the FOIA do not give rise to offenses, but are actionable in damages, as is libel. A complaint has gone to the UK’s Information Commissioner. Furthermore, as Hugh O’Donoghue’s Opinion says: “Lord Monckton may legitimately raise not only the matter but also the manner of the conduct of officials of the House with the Privileges Committee.”
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Lord Monckton is quite skilled in oratory skewering. Thus, I had to look up “defalcating”. It has roots in the bankruptcy code. I think he’s implying Mr. Beamish was/is morally bankrupt.
In short, don’t mock the Monck for his title. Here’s the PDF of the legal opinion:
O’Donoghue-lords-opinion (PDF 335k)
Bob Layson, who has no right to enter, work or produce in this country? You are talking of the country with the largest number of legal and illegal imigrants in the world. The entire point of our LEGAL imigration is to insure that those that come are moral, hardworking, and understand the freedoms and liberty upon which the USA was founded. You sound like you just came from an OWS protest.
Just as long as this peerage stuff stays on that side of the Atlantic, I am happy to support his lordship. We have enough useless people in North America without invoking royalty. But Monkton seems the antithesis of the hereditary lord with his supreme oratory skills and obvious passion for something meaningful other than a jolly game of lawn cricket. An intellectual Mr. Bean if you will. But I’m sure he’s a mean lawn-bowler. They practice that kind of stuff over there.
Lord Monckton, perhaps you could explain the background, history and culture of your title and how you hope it to represent the enobling qualties exhibited by your countrymen. I know you have not excessively flouted said title, but rather been forced to enthusiasticaly defend its application to your person, but I would like to hear from you it history from a positive view point.
BTW, any reasonable person who actually read your hundreds of questions response to your attackers, understands well their illogic and emotion based troll like assertions against your logical presentation.
The concept of a hereditary aristocracy as an element of civil government is as great an idiocy as is our American system of permanent institutional incumbency. We’d get ourselves a more genuinely representative legislature at every level if we were to select the the occupants of those seats in the statehouses and the Congress by random lottery, the way we summon veniremen for jury duty.
One term “in the barrel” at the summons of your friends and neighbors at the draft board, like it or not, and then you’re back in the population to live under the laws you’d enacted, no pension, no perqs, no lobbying clout.
What Mr. Monckton is doing in his persistent and eloquently pursued emphasis on his membership in the senior house of the British Parliament is to exploit a traditional element of his national culture to emphasize the tyrannous criminality of government in the U.K.
The general law of 1999 by way of which PM Tony Blair turned the House of Lords into “Tony’s Cronies” arbitrarily denied privileges conferred upon the membership of their national legislature’s upper house – a mechanism deliberately created to mitigate the effects of intrusively normative popular passions – to eliminate an obstacle to left-wing dirigisme in the social and economic life of the nation.
Precisely like what the Progressives did to America with the 17th Amendment. The Constitution had envisioned the upper chamber of our Congress as a forum in which the “ambassadors” of our state governments – Senators chosen by their respective states’ legislatures – had a powerful voice in the creation of federal laws and regulations.
The Progressives turned these Senators into pure popularity contest winners, congresscritters elected at large in each state, with no more direct interest in the concerns of their respective state governments than has any district’s Representative.
The Senate created by the U.S. Constitution was an obstacle to the Progressive (read “Liberal”) agenda, and its removal was a disaster. Same thing – on a smaller scale – with the conversion of the House of Lords into “Tony’s Cronies” in 1999.
If for no other reason, I have to endorse Mr. Monckton’s merry ride on this particular hobbyhorse. As economist Friedrich von Hayek put it, there are reasons for “traditional” arrangements, and alterations to attain what is obviously pure political expediency are almost always going to come out grievously wrong.
Amen. SCO vs the world (www.groklaw.net) has been playing out for years. Those of us who have followed it should have learned one thing: If a case is before the courts and good lawyers are involved, the outcome is very hard to predict. Common sense is no help and even experienced lawyers didn’t seem to be able to predict some of the truly bizarre twists and turns the cases took.
The best thing to do is break out the popcorn and sit back and enjoy the show.
It is actually very simple, but for those outside the UK, this is the position.
Lord Monckton is a hereditary peer, the 3rd Viscount of Brenchley and this title will be passed down to his heir. However in 1999 the House of Lords was reformed and many hereditary peers were no longer allowed to sit. This was not a personal matter, simply a political affair.
as an Aussie I found his comparison of Garnaut absolutely correct and apt.
Fabian/ Fascist whatever the label it fits!
Hereditary peers used to be able to sit and vote – though few did. ‘Working peers’ are normally ‘life peers’ created by political appointment and not hereditary. Following legislation only about 90 hereditary peers are allowed now to sit and vote in the Lords. They are elected by – well their peers.
Strictly speaking as long as you are a hereditary peer you are still a member of the Lords, the club just limits your privileges.
The HoL is meant to be a revising chamber and cannot of itself make law. I see no need for it at all actually.
I agree with Tucci78. The 17th Amendment transferred allegiance from Senators representing their States, to Senators representing their national Party. Thus, Sen. Harry Reid does not represent the citizens of Nevada; he only represents the national Democrat Party, a total perversion of the Constitution that should be corrected by eliminating the 17th Amendment.
Trev says:
“The HoL is meant to be a revising chamber and cannot of itself make law. I see no need for it at all actually.”
The House of Lords had the ability to veto legislation; not to make legislation. That is an important distinction. Arbitrarily removing that right gave wild-eyed Leftist wackos the ability to ram unpopular laws down the throats of the taxpaying public.
John R says:
November 20, 2011 at 4:44 pm
“I dont think an unelected hereditary lord should be allowed to vote on legislation and undoubtedly Lord Monckton has no wish for it either….”
I wouldn’t bet on that one. I’m not sure he is quite as eager to have the last of the Norman Yoke cast off as you are. You are assuming that because you like him, he agrees with your American provincial way of doing things.
Au contraire when it comes to this.
Christoph Dollis says:
“You are assuming that because you like he, he agrees with your American provincial way of doing things.”
So we’re ‘provincials’, eh? It’s fabulous to be able to mind-read what someone else is thinking, isn’t it? Why don’t you just tell us how to do things, then we won’t have to think. Our betters know better, and you’re our better, no?
… NO.
R. Gates says:
November 20, 2011 at 10:06 pm
You speak for yourself mate. I’ve found that members of the House of Lords usually have much more in common with us “common” people than those serial dissemblers, EU lovers and traitors in the House of Commons. The House of Lords was best left alone. They could not be bribed or ‘bought’, but no, that snivelling cretin Tiny Blur had to interfere and generally mess up another British institution.
Let us be fair here, it is not Christopher Monckton fault that he is
3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley.
To paraphrase Jessica Rabbit, “he was born that way.”
I am curious though – is he the only person who was affected by the ruling and if not, what have all the others done? Have they continued to use their titles?
Section 1 of the House of Lords Act 1999 says in its entirity: “No-one shall be a member of the House of Lords by virtue of a hereditary peerage.” Section 2 has exceptions to this, but those exceptions do not apply to Lord Monckton.
Isn’t the accusation, “criminous clerk,” over the top, considering that Dave Beam does not seem to have committed an actual crime (even if it was an apparent mistake in judgement) and is not a clergyman (see http://www.spiritual-politics.org/2011/10/criminous_clerks.html for the source of the alliterative phrase)? Not defending Dave here, but such florid rebuttals must dance perilously close the the libel law boundaries.
From dukeofurl on November 20, 2011 at 11:54 pm:
Military rank is also retained as a title after retirement. There are also other work titles that are retained with the “emeritus” addition, like Professor Emeritus or Director Emeritus.
Jimmy Carter died? Dang, I missed the press release. Someone better update his Wikipedia entry.
And you’re not counting the ‘Bama as a President. Fine with me, I understand the sentiment.
O’Donoghue: “We have the authority of two Law Lords in the Privileges Committee that the meaning of the words ‘membership of the House’ in the Act is confined to the right to sit and vote. The implication is that in all other respects excluded Hereditary Peers remain members of the House.”
I don’t see the logic here. If membership of the House of Lords is confined to the right to sit and note, and if excluded hereditary peers do not have the right to sit and vote, then it would follow that the excluded hereditary peers cannot be members of the House.
O’Donoghue seems to be basing his argument on a contradiction in terms. This is just the point that Beamish makes in his letter calling on Monckton to cease claiming to be a member of the House of Lords: “Your assertion that you are a Member, but without the right to sit or vote, is a contradiction in terms”.
So until the law or its interpretation is changed, it looks like Lord Monckton remains a peer, but not a member of the House of Lords.
“This is a formidable feat, a formidable memory. The Lord not a person with whom to disagree lightly. I readily concede that his genius IQ exceeds my genius IQ.”
Short term memory has more to do with IQ than long term. IQ is more about speed and quality of thought not accumulated knowledge. Thus you can’t increase your IQ by reading books. You increase your working knowledge that way but not your speed of thought. No doubt Monckton has a high IQ because in order to debate well means, among other things, you have to be able seize unrehearsed opportunities opened up in the instant by your opponent(s). Long term memory is usually but not neccessarily important in debate depending on the topic. Short term memory is always important because you have to at least be able to recall well what your opponent has stated in the last several seconds or minutes.
I think for most Americans this tiff over titlings doesn’t rise to the level of entertainment. The general reaction I think is best conveyed by the proverbial “rolling eyes”. In our culture respect is usually something that’s earned. Property can be inherited but it’s more respectable to earn it. Respect can’t be inherited and may only be earned. In cases where it’s given without being earned it’s quite likely feigned. Monckton in this case, it would appear, can use an inherited title according to English law but we in the U.S. don’t have to acknowledge it and might even be tempted to mock it because it is so antithetical to our mainstream culture.
That said, I think Monckton has earned a certain amount of respect but I wouldn’t go so far as to equate that with world class scientists, engineers, or philosophers either living or dead. He’s no Einstein, Edison, or even a Tesla.
Just sayin…
For a bit of understanding about England, the monarchy etc dating from antiquity, one might check out:
This realm of England; monarchy, aristocracy, democracy
By Sir John Arthur Ransome Marriott
Part of the ‘take-away’ would be the following:
So, place Lord Monckton among the Witenagamot, long providing wise advice and counsel.
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Cliff’s Notes version, re: parliaments and a ‘body of men who would assist and advise the King” et al:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament#England
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament#Scotland
.
Well done Monckton, it is such a shame that hereditary peerages are no longer given out, the independence and common sense of most hereditary peers was a good bulwark against the career politicians.
Don’t sweat it my friend. Over here, We The People *did* write it all down. We dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s. We added clarifying Amendments (ninth and tenth in particular) and even wrote the Idiot’s Guide to the Constitution (Federalist Papers), and still the FedGov is a runaway out of control monster.
Alas, the evils of human nature, particularly those of the criminal swine of the socialist left, cannot be easily legislated away. “The price of liberty is eternal vigiliance”.
Love it! Godspeed Christopher.
Uggh. American public school system at work again. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
He must be a Lord. “He hasn’t got sh*t all over him” like many of the people he’s debating. (figuratively speaking in this case)
Let me guess. Dave Beamish is a lefty beaurocrat? Is there any lefty anywhere that won’t abuse their position in order to go after their political ‘enemies’?