Hey – how much Thorium you got under the hood?

Much like “flying cars”, atomic powered cars were a campy futuristic meme of the 50’s, for example, there was the Ford Nucleon concept:

File:Ford Nucleon.jpg

From Wikipedia: The Ford Nucleon was a scale model concept car developed by Ford Motor Company in 1958 as a design on how a nuclear-powered car might look. The design did not include an internal-combustion engine, rather, the vehicle was to be powered by a small nuclear reactor in the rear of the vehicle, based on the assumption that this would one day be possible based on shrinking sizes. The car was to use a steam engine powered by uranium fission.

It looks a little bit like the Bat mobile from the rear:

Now it looks like we might actually see a real one, using Thorium rather than Uranium, which not only is safer to manage, you don’t have to worry about some terrorist car-jacking your ride for fissile materials.

Here’s the new concept. Thorium could be used in conjunction with a laser and mini turbines to easily produce enough electricity to power a vehicle. When thorium is heated, it generates further heat surges, allowing it to be coupled with mini turbines to produce steam that can then be used to generate electricity. It is said that 1 gram of thorium produces the equivalent energy of 7,500 gallons of gasoline.

Here’s the headline from Ward’s Auto:

U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium

By Keith Nuthall

A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium.

Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium.

Thorium is silvery, often with black tarnish - image: Wikipedia

The key to the system developed by inventor Charles Stevens, CEO and chairman of Connecticut-based Laser Power Systems, is that when silvery metal thorium is heated by an external source, it becomes so dense its molecules give off considerable heat.

Small blocks of thorium generate heat surges that are configured as a thorium-based laser, Stevens tells Ward’s. These create steam from water within mini-turbines, generating electricity to drive a car.

A 250 MW (I think this is a typo, they probably mean KW – Anthony) unit weighing about 500 lbs. (227 kg) would be small and light enough to drop under the hood of a car, he says.

Jim Hedrick, a specialist on industrial minerals – and until last year the U.S. Geological Survey’s senior advisor on rare earths – tells Ward’s the idea is “both plausible and sensible.”

Stevens says his company should be able to place a prototype on the road within two years. The firm has 40 employees and operates out of an in-house research workshop.

View Chart Larger

Hedrick, the industrial minerals expert, says 7,500 gallons is “way more gasoline than an average person uses in a year. Switching to thorium-driven cars would make the U.S. energy self-sufficient, and carbon emissions would plummet.

“It would eliminate the major need for oil,” he says. “The main (remaining) demand would be for asphalt for roadways, natural gas, plastics and lubricants.”

Full story here.

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I want one. 8 grams of Thorium in a  V shaped reactor block. The new atomic V-8. The only downside is that I won’t be able to overhaul the engine myself as I would imagine the Thorium would be in a sealed power module. I might add, that this endeavor sounds a little bit like a Tucker, long on promise, short on delivery.

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ADDENDUM:

I published this story late Friday night at 1AM and then went on a trip the next day, I was surprised to learn that people missed my cues and thought I took the Ward’s article seriously. I thought the headline and first sentence set the tone with “flying cars” and “campy”.

Few seemed to understand the Tucker comment at the end either:

“I might add, that this endeavor sounds a little bit like a Tucker, long on promise, short on delivery.”

The Tucker was a car sold on futuristic promises in the mind of a man that hadn’t actually designed or built the car. Preston Tucker floated the concept in Science Illustrated magazine in December 1946  followed by a full page advertisement in March 1947 in many national newspapers claiming “How 15 years of testing produced the car of the year”. He was immediately overwhelmed with pre-orders for a car that didn’t even exist on paper. Hence my comment: “I want one”.

Tucker then got a bunch of investors together to try to fill orders, and got some government help with loan of a WWII supply factory that had been idled after the war. The factory eventually produced 50 cars, but it was too late, as many had lost confidence and he was embroiled in an SEC investigation and court trial over investor funds.

The 1948 Tucker Torpedo- click for article

The cars finally produced didn’t have many of the futuristic features that had been promised early on. Some were there, and Tucker was credited with inspiring improved auto safety as a result.

I thought my reference to a Tucker automobile was about as strong a label as anyone could make as the promises of this thorium car being hyped. The parallel seemed obvious.

I guess next time I’ll have to be more explicit. with a /sarc tag – Anthony

 

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moe
August 13, 2011 2:34 am

Be careful, the concept, and the companies website reek of scam.

cedarhill
August 13, 2011 2:39 am

Some form of grease would be a good idea as well.

August 13, 2011 2:43 am

Oh , please! after the Rossi scam. Credibility going down like safe out of a tenth floor window.

Doug in Seattle
August 13, 2011 2:43 am

Place my name on the list for test drivers!

StuartMcL
August 13, 2011 2:44 am

The greenies will still oppose it.

old construction worker
August 13, 2011 2:48 am

How about one for the old homestead?

August 13, 2011 2:57 am

That would be really nice.
Especially because it would make some of the worst scoundrels on Earth eat sand.

DaveF
August 13, 2011 2:59 am

“…I won’t be able to overhaul the engine myself…”
The equivalent of 7500 gallons in a car that would normally do 30 miles to the gallon is 225,000 miles.Time to trade in, I think.

August 13, 2011 3:08 am

Oh dear. Lubos Motl quite reasonably asked “are WUWT readers skeptics or gullible idiots?” about the five votes the article on cold fusion received.
Personally, I claim we’re skeptics. I didn’t join the chorus of ‘I don’t believe it’ solely because my point had been made many times before. This case is even more spectacularly obvious as a fraud. Did you note that the website claims there are no fission byproducts? Therefore, there is no source for the energy. It claims heat is produced from Thorium’s ‘density’, but that’s at best a simple phase-change which requires as much energy in as comes out. Why would they go through the rigamarole of generating heat to turn it into a laser to generate steam to produce electricity to drive a car?
There is no sensible reason.
Once again, I’d love to be proven wrong, but it isn’t going to happen with this scam
!

graphicconception
August 13, 2011 3:13 am

“A 250 MW unit weighing about 500 lbs. (227 kg) would be small and light enough to drop under the hood of a car, he says.”
Anyone know if those figures are correct? 250MW is over 300,000 hp!

August 13, 2011 3:21 am

It must be a scam. The Thorium fuel cycle generates 232U as a byproduct, hence hard gamma radiation. It is part of the reason stuff hijacked from Thorium reactors can’t be used to build a bomb, making proliferation scare moot.
I guess no one wants a hard gamma source behind the back seat, neither tons of lead casing for a shield.
It is feasible however to generate hydrogen by proper Thorium plants and using it to manufacture synthetic fuels. This is the safe and environmentally friendly way to exploit Thorium potential for ordinary vehicles.
The case of cargo ships is another matter though, they can carry the load of necessary radiation shields easily.

August 13, 2011 3:22 am

I like, I like.
I like most that Oz has more Thorium than India, and almost as much as the US. Great riches – coal AND Thorium!

C.M. Carmichael
August 13, 2011 3:24 am

250 megawatts! I think he meant kilowatts. Or maybe MWh?

Wijnand
August 13, 2011 3:36 am

Who needs 250 Mega(!) Watt in a car? Shouldn’t this be 250 kW?

August 13, 2011 3:43 am

Would there be enough power left over to get a nice exhaust burble?
That is critical if they wish to sell me.
(I am assuming it would be standard there is a suitable clunk-factor on door closure.)

etudiant
August 13, 2011 3:56 am

Obviously the folks at Wards Auto did not get any useful information and wrote the story accordingly.
Note the core claim ‘when thorium is heated by an external source, it becomes so dense its molecules give off considerable heat’. Homer Simpson could not have explained it better.

Dr T G Watkins
August 13, 2011 4:01 am

Thorium232 is not fissile and requires an external neutron to convert it to Th233 which is fissile.
This does not seem to be a nuclear reaction. See Energy from Thorium website for information about Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors.

Timdot
August 13, 2011 4:02 am

a jones says:
August 13, 2011 at 1:34 am
[snip – even spelled that way ~jove, mod] And I thought big-time negativity was restricted to the AGW crowd.

August 13, 2011 4:02 am

If it ever materialises, I might buy one, as long as it had the throaty roar of a 4-stroke V8. A hissing steamy noise just wouldn’t cut it in terms of street cred …
Pointman

August 13, 2011 4:06 am

This is a joke, right?

RobL
August 13, 2011 4:10 am

This is pure BS. A huge amount of experimentation has never revealed that altering temperature and pressure (even using lasers and other things with ‘sciencey’ names) has no effect on decay rates.
Thorium is very stable stuff that must be bred into fissile Uranium using neutron capture to make it into a useful nuclear fuel.
It is possible to start a chain-reaction in fissile Uranium 235 or Plutonium 239 using vast arrays of lasers the size of stadiums converging on a micro-sphere of fuel thereby increasing the density to increase reactionrate – but last I looked stadiums were not very portable.

Kasuha
August 13, 2011 4:18 am

This kind of articles definitely reduces WUWT credibility.
Thorium is not nuclear fuel on its own and by heating it up you get just a block of hot Thorium.
To get nuclear reaction in it you need to pump neutrons to it first and change it to Uranium 233.
And I don’t believe anybody would be crazy enough to put such things to automobiles.

H.R.
August 13, 2011 4:19 am

Buy stock in tires.
They’re going to wear out quickly as people tromp on the accelerator to unleash all that power.
Meanwhile, color me skeptical. I’ll believe it when the used car salesmen are pushing thorium powered vehicles that “were only driven to church on Sundays by a little old lady.”

peter_ga
August 13, 2011 4:22 am

How does it dispose of all the waste heat? If it generates 250 MW of power, thats about 25000 1 KW room heaters.

August 13, 2011 4:31 am

Forget the car! My house will be visible from Alpha Centauri if you give me 250MW to use!!! And I’ll be surrounded by waterfalls, elevators, escalators, cable ways, the works…