On the Climate Audit thread, The Vergano FOI Request the irascible Nick Stokes provokes another commenter “mpaul”, to lay out all the history in a simple summary that even Nick might understand. I thought it was worth repeating here for readers who have not followed the twists and turns in detail, and also in the hope that Dr. Michael Mann might read it and get a clue. Obstruction doesn’t pay.
From this Climate Audit comment:
mpaul
But I don’t think snooping through people’s private emails is a dignified activity.
Nick, I’ll turn the sarcasm off for a moment. I agree with you on this point. I have been an advocate for Cuccinelli CID process. Say what you will about Cuccinelli’s motives, but the American justice system provides protections for the accused and standards of procedure that do not exist in the court of public opinion.
We have arrived at this point in history along the following path:
(1) Steve wanted to replicate MBH98 and asked for data. Mann initially complied, but then began to obstruct.
(2) Steve successfully obtained the needed data and demonstrated serious flaws in Mann’s approach.
(3) Mann defended his work by saying that other Hockey Stick reconstructions validated his method and his conclusions.
(4) Attention turned to replicating the other reconstructions. By now, the Team had become extremely defensive and a sort of bunker mentality took over. Years of obstruction followed.
(5) Those seeking the data and methods used in the HS reconstructions became more and more aggressive, eventually turning to FOIA as a tool to pry loose the information.
(6) Then “a miracle happened’. A file containing materials and emails requested under FOIA turned up on the internet. Most everyone would agree that the contents of the emails warranted an investigation. The only investigation that specifically looked into Mann’s conduct was undertaken by Penn State. Penn State cleared Mann noting that Mann stated:
(a) he had never falsified any data, nor had he had ever manipulated data to serve a given predetermined outcome;
(b) he never used inappropriate influence in reviewing papers by other scientists who disagreed with the conclusions of his science;
(c) he never deleted emails at the behest of any other scientist, specifically including Dr. Phil Jones, and that he never withheld data with the intention of obstructing science; and
(d) he never engaged in activities or behaviors that were inconsistent with accepted academic practices.
(7) Critics have charged that the Penn State investigation was inadequate. Michael Mann has subsequently stated that he did, in fact, participate in an orchestrated effort to delete emails covered under FOIA, raising questions about the veracity of statements he made to the Penn State investigators. Penn State seems untroubled by this.
A real, independent investigation, subject to rules of evidence and judicial procedures, is needed. Such an investigation is the only way to put and end to Climategate and is the only way to restore the tattered reputation of climate science. I think both Virginia and Pennsylvania should conduct an investigation. However, if UVa continues to obstruct the CID, then FOIA is the only option and Mann will be afforded no protection of his privacy.
Mann and UVa are playing a losing game. Its sheer folly to attempt to frustrate a State AG in a law enforcement investigation. Cuccinelli has nuclear weapons at his disposal and UVa has water pistols. If Cuccinelli loses the CID battle, he will simply file a lawsuit and obtain the materials through discovery. Or, if UVa really pisses him off, he will convene a Grand Jury. For Mann personally, this would be catastrophic. Mann and UVa should cooperate with the CID process.
It’s sad that we have arrived at this place. But at every juncture in this journey, Mann has chosen the wrong path.

If an individual who has been involved in the debate for several years still believes/accepts that the vast majority of Mann’s hockey stick is still valid, should an objective person stop reading anything he/she posts or any analysis he/she provides?
Nick who?
Nick Stokes,
When Steve McIntyre and Ross McKittrick post on Climate Audit that Michael Mann has provided all the information they have been requesting for the past 13 years, then that will be good enough for me.
But asking, “What do you think was hidden by Mann re MBH98?” is like asking folks to prove a negative. We don’t know what Mann still has hidden. So, what Mann et. al need to do is change their bunker attitude, and cooperate fully with M&M and anyone else who asks – preferably by archiving everything online – and answering all questions generated by the posted data and code, so there is replicability and reproducibility per the scientific method.
In other words, do it the Feynman way:
Michael Mann does none of those things. Instead, he stonewalls and hides out from questions – and from the scientific method. Why do you think that is?
I’m now of the opinion that Nick Stokes is either disingenuous or deranged in his thought processes, such as selective memory.
Mark T says: June 2, 2011 at 4:25 pm
“True to form the captain of the cheerleading squad steps in, “defends” a point that nobody argues, ignores the rest, then declares victory.”
I wouldn’t normally have commented here, but I’m curious, because I don’t know what it means. I’m hearing plenty of argument.
John M says: June 2, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Well, that’s at least something specific. Mann didn’t think R2 was the appropriate statistic. Perhaps he’s wrong. But we’re talking about hiding data . From what he provided, you can work out R2 for yourself.
you know…..
Any scientist that discovered something this important, with science this ‘robust’…
…would have every bit of their code, their reconstructions, their data, their “dirty laundry” out there so even a three year old could reproduce it.
If a scientist really believed, they wouldn’t hide it…..
They would be proud of it and bragging to the whole world what a great scientist they are..
This is a scam…….even the so called climate scientists don’t even believe it
you know…..
Any scientist that discovered something this important, with science this ‘robust’…
…would have every bit of their code, their reconstructions, their data, their “dirty laundry” out there so even a three year old could reproduce it.
If a scientist really believed, they wouldn’t hide it…..
They would be proud of it and bragging to the whole world what a great scientist they are..
…….even the so called climate scientists don’t even believe it
Regardless of whether Nick Stokes is irascible or incorrigible I appreciate the way in which WUWT revisits previous posts and attempts to drag things forward. It doesn’t always work but it shows how genuine Anthony really is at getting to the truth. So thanks for that.
I have been thinking that ‘Nick Stokes’ is playing devil’s advocate with his apparent willingness to ignore what is so obvious and then with his curious rationalizations…
maybe I’m making the same sort of mistake.
Nobody argues point #2, that you specifically quoted. Steve did get that data.
You’re a joke.
Mark
“a Grand Jury” sounds just about right.
What are the odds … that Nick Stokes is the nom de plume of a cadre of CAGW posters, veritable back-bench, 2nd stringers to the The Team ever-striving for attention via disruption … able to work multiple boards in a single bound, always signing ‘Nick Plume’ -er- ‘Stokes’ to their work?
This could account for the ‘selective memory’ component exhibited in their/his behavior.
That, or heavy, continuous, day-in day-out consumption of alcohol (to which he has built up enormous immunity/coping ability sans finer, higher-intellect functions e.g. memory) …
.
What a bizarre take on the situation. Steve has been shown to be wrong and the Mann reconstruction has been validated. Mann never stated that he orchestrated an effort to delete emails covered by FOIA requests. The AG is wasting tax payer money by spending resources on a witch hunt without any evidence of illegal activity. The Virginia AG has stated that his investigation is only politically motivated. Numerous investigations into the stolen emails has shown nothing nefarious. It really does take a cult like demeanor to believe any of the above post. The attack on Dr. Mann is motivated by an irrational fear of the scientific method. For those attacking Dr. Mann, observation is trumped by ideology.
Smokey says: June 2, 2011 at 6:15 pm
“Nick Stokes,
When Steve McIntyre and Ross McKittrick post on Climate Audit that Michael Mann has provided all the information they have been requesting for the past 13 years, then that will be good enough for me.”
Getting there. 🙂
“Mann’s recent materials are archived responsibly. “
How bizarre that so many people still can’t move beyond a reconstruction from the late 1990’s which has been validated numerous times since.
MotherJones: Coming Soon: The Palin Emails
any reader who wants to sit in a cozy chair with an iPad or laptop and spend hours upon hours absorbing Palin’s e-correspondence—looking for missed nuggets or merely seeking further insight into Palin’s governorship—will be able to do so, courtesy of those of us who spent the past two-and-a-half years pushing these records into the open. Here comes some real summer reading.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/sarah-palin-emails-database-coming-soon
MotherJones: Cuccinelli’s Attack on Climate Science Continues
Ken Cuccinelli, Virginia’s crusading right-wing attorney general, is taking another shot in his war on climate science.
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/10/cuccinellis-attack-climate-science-continues
MotherJones: Judge Blocks Virginia AG’s Climate Witch Hunt
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has been waging a war on climate science, among his many other right-wing crusades.
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/08/judge-cuccinelli-mann-climate-change
James Sexton says:
June 2, 2011 at 2:07 pm
I remember arriving in D.C. some time ago. The mayor of this nation’s capital had just been video taped smoking crack! Every where I went, there were t-shirts worn with words something akin to “The female dog set him up!” Anyway, trail and prison interrupted his running for mayor, but after he was done with that, he became mayor of our nation’s capital once again. He’s sitting on the council now.
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James: give Mayor Berry his due. He pioneered the “Work Free Drug Zone”….
The VA AG investigation is nothing but a grudge according to John Christy, ““Do all of us who work as university employees (not federal employees) become subject to being investigated by anyone with a grudge?”
For everyone accusing Dr. Mann of fraud, the words of Mr. McIntyre should be heeded, “People are far too quick to yell fraud at the other side. I think such language is both selfish and counterproductive.”
Steeptown says:
June 2, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Why does Nick Stokes continually make himself look as bad as Mann? Why does he continue so strongly to defend the indefensible? What is it about the character of these people that makes them that way?
—————————————————————————
For the same reason that Ahmadinijad considers himself to the “Hidden Imam”–blind religous fervor to a cause that needs a suspension of reason to acquit itself…
Ross McKitrick says, ““You have to be prepared to make the effort to go into the details and get them right. Nothing I have seen yet suggests that Cucinelli has done so, and I have yet to see any credible basis for his inquiry.”
[snip . . ad hom . . you would need to point out such selective memories at the very least . . kb]
What is also bizarre is the uncritical acceptance of any accusations against Dr. Mann. Where is the skepticism by the skeptics? Where is the skepticism of Steve’s criticism of Dr. Mann’s since validated reconstruction?
The Bottom line is that MBH 98 has been thoroughly discredited.
This quote from Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy is so apt at this point it’s worth testing the mod’s resolve.
Nick says Steve was able to (eventually) get hold of the resources and replicate the results, and that’s all that matters…..
“But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months.”
“Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything.”
“But the plans were on display …”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard’.”
— Douglas Adams