This summary is from Dr. Pielke at the University of Colorado in his words. I’ll have my own post on some detail not covered here, with links to the SI – data code, etc we are preparing in a day or two. Some may ask why I am not lead author. That was my choice, because the strength is in the statistical analysis, and I wanted it clear that the paper is about that joint work and not about any one person’s efforts. – Anthony
UPDATE: Also, two other posts, by co-author Dr. John Nielsen-Gammon that are must reads are:
The surfacestations paper – statistics primer
Something for Everyone: Fall et al. 2011
Guest post by Dr. Roger Pielke Sr.
Our paper
Fall, S., A. Watts, J. Nielsen-Gammon, E. Jones, D. Niyogi, J. Christy, and R.A. Pielke Sr., 2011: Analysis of the impacts of station exposure on the U.S. Historical Climatology Network temperatures and temperature trends. J. Geophys. Res., in press. Copyright (2011) American Geophysical Union.
has been accepted and is now in press. Below I have presented a summary of the study and its major messages from my perspective. While the other authors of our paper have read and provided input on the information given below, the views presented below are mine. I will be posting on the history of my involvement on this subject in a follow-up post in a few days.
Volunteer Study Finds Station Siting Problems Affect USA Multi-Decadal Surface Temperature Measurements
We found that the poor siting of a significant number of climate reference sites (USHCN) used by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) to monitor surface air temperatures has led to inaccuracies and larger uncertainties in the analysis of multi-decadal surface temperature anomalies and trends than assumed by NCDC.
NCDC does recognize that this is an issue. In the past decade, NCDC has established a new network, the Climate Reference Network (CRN), to measure surface air temperatures within the United States going forward. According to our co-author Anthony Watts:
“The fact that NOAA itself has created a new replacement network, the Climate Reference Network, suggests that even they have realized the importance of addressing the uncertainty problem.”
The consequences of this poor siting on their analyses of multi-decadal trends and anomalies up to the present, however, has not been adequately examined by NCDC.
We are seeking to remedy this shortcoming in our study.
The placement of the USHCN sites can certainly affect the temperatures being recorded—both an area of asphalt (which is warmer than the surroundings on a sunny day or irrigated lawns (which is cooler than surrounding bare soil on a sunny day) situated near a station, for example, will influence the recorded surface air temperatures.
NOAA has adopted siting criteria for their climate reference stations: CRN 1 stations are the least likely to being influenced by nearby sources of heat or cooling, while CRN 5 stations are the most likely to be contaminated by local effects. These local effects include nearby buildings, parking lots, water treatment plants irrigated lawns, and other such local land features.
To determine how the USHCN stations satisfied the CRN siting criteria and also whether the station siting affected temperature trend characteristics, Anthony Watts of IntelliWeather set up the Surface Stations project in 2007. More than 650 volunteers nationwide visually inspected (and rated) 1007 of the 1221 USHCN stations. The volunteers wrote reports on the surroundings of each station and supplemented these reports with photographs. Further analysis by Watts and his team used satellite and aerial map measurements to confirm distances between the weather station sensors and nearby land features.
The Surface Stations project is truly an outstanding citizen scientist project under the leadership of Anthony Watts! The project did not involve federal funding. Indeed, these citizen scientists paid for the page charges for our article. This is truly an outstanding group of committed volunteers who donated their time and effort on this project!
Analyzing the collected data, as reported in our paper, we found that only 80 of the 1007 sites surveyed in the 1221 station network met the criteria of CRN 1 or CRN 2 sites – those deemed appropriate for measuring climate trends by NCDC. Of the remaining, 67 sites attained a CRN 5 rating – the worst rating. While the 30-year and 115-year trends, and all groups of stations, showed warming trends over those periods, we found that the minimum temperature trends appeared to be overestimated and the maximum warming trends underestimated at the poorer sites.
This discrepancy matters quite a bit. Wintertime minimum temperatures help determine plant hardiness, for example, and summertime minimum temperatures are very important for heat wave mortality. The use of temperature trends from poorly sited climate stations, therefore, introduces an uncertainly in our ability to quantify these key climate metrics.
While all groups of stations showed warming trends over those periods, there is evidence to suggest a higher level of uncertainty in the trends since it was found, as one example, that according to the best-sited stations, the 24 hour temperature range in the lower 48 states has no century-scale trend, while the poorly sited locations have a significantly smaller diurnal temperature range. This raises a red flag to avoid poorly sited locations since clearly station measurement siting affects the quality of the surface temperature measurements.
The inaccuracies in the maximum and minimum temperature trends do matter also in the quantification of global warming. The inaccuracies of measurements from poorly sited stations are merged with the well sited stations in order to provide area average estimates of surface temperature trends including a global average. In the United States, where this study was conducted, the biases in maximum and minimum temperature trends are fortuitously of opposite sign, but about the same magnitude, so they cancel each other and the mean trends are not much different from siting class to siting class. This finding needs to be assessed globally to see if this also true more generally.
However, even the best-sited stations may not be accurately measuring trends in temperature or, more generally, in trends in heat content of the air which includes the effect of water vapor trends (which is the more correct metric to assess surface air warming and cooling; see). Also, most of the best sited stations are at airports, which are subject to encroaching urbanization, and/or use a different set of automated equipment designed for aviation meteorology, but not climate monitoring. Additionally, the NCDC corrections for station moves or other inhomogeneities use data from poorly-sited stations for determining adjustments to better-sited stations, thus muddling the cleaner climate data. We are looking at these issues for our follow-on paper.
However, we know from our study that the use of these poorly sited locations in constructing multi-decadal surface temperature trends and anomalies has introduced an uncertainty in our quantification of the magnitude of how much warming has occurred in the United States during the 20th and early 21st century.
One critical question that needs to be answered now is; does this uncertainty extend to the worldwide surface temperature record? In our paper
Montandon, L.M., S. Fall, R.A. Pielke Sr., and D. Niyogi, 2011: Distribution of landscape types in the Global Historical Climatology Network. Earth Interactions, 15:6, doi: 10.1175/2010EI371
we found that the global average surface temperature may be higher than what has been reported by NCDC and others as a result in the bias in the landscape area where the observing sites are situated. However, we were not able to look at the local siting issue that we have been able to study for the USA in our new paper.
Appendix- Summary of Trend Analysis Results
Temperature trend estimates do indeed vary according to site classification. Assuming trends from the better-sited stations (CRN 1 and CRN 2) are most accurate:
- Minimum temperature warming trends are overestimated at poorer sites
- Maximum temperature warming trends are underestimated at poorer sites
- Mean temperature trends are similar at poorer sites due to the contrasting biases of maximum and minimum trends
- The trend of the “diurnal temperature range” (the difference between maximum and minimum temperatures) is most strongly dependent on siting quality. For 1979-2008 for example, the magnitude of the linear trend in diurnal temperature range is over twice as large for CRN 1&2 (0.13ºC/decade) as for any of the other CRN classes. For the period 1895-2009, the adjusted CRN 1&2 diurnal temperature range trend is almost exactly zero, while the adjusted CRN 5 diurnal temperature range trend is about -0.5°C/century.
- Vose and Menne[2004, their Fig. 9] found that a 25-station national network of COOP stations, even if unadjusted and unstratified by siting quality, is sufficient to estimate 30-yr temperature trends to an accuracy of +/- 0.012°C/yr compared to the full COOP network. The statistically significant trend differences found here in the central and eastern United States for CRN 5 stations compared to CRN 1&2 stations, however, are as large (-0.013°C/yr for maximum temperatures, +0.011°C/yr for minimum temperatures) or larger (-0.023°C/yr for diurnal temperature range) than the uncertainty presented by Menne at al (2010).
More detailed results are found in the paper, including analyses for different periods, comparisons of raw and adjusted trends, and comparisons with an independent temperature data set.
Questions and Answers
Q: So is the United States getting warmer?
A: Yes in terms of the surface air temperature record. We looked at 30-year and 115-year trends, and all groups of stations showed warming trends over those periods.
Q: Has the warming rate been overestimated?
A: The minimum temperature rise appears to have been overestimated, but the maximum temperature rise appears to have been underestimated.
Q: Do the differing trend errors in maximum and minimum temperature matter?
A: They matter quite a bit. Wintertime minimum temperatures help determine plant hardiness, for example, and summertime minimum temperatures are very important for heat wave mortality. Moreover, maximum temperature trends are the better indicator of temperature changes in the rest of the atmosphere, since minimum temperature trends are much more a function of height near the ground and are of less value in diagnosing heat changes higher in the atmosphere; e.g see .
Q: What about mean temperature trends?
A: In the United States the biases in maximum and minimum temperature trends are about the same size, so they cancel each other and the mean trends are not much different from siting class to siting class. This finding needs to be assessed globally to see if this also true more generally.
However, even the best-sited stations may not be accurately measuring trends in temperature or, more generally, in trends in heat content of the air which includes the effect of water vapor trends. Also, most are at airports, are subject to encroaching urbanization, and use a different set of automated equipment. The corrections for station moves or other inhomogeneities use data from poorly-sited stations for determining adjustments to better-sited stations.
Q: What’s next?
A: We also plan to look specifically at the effects of instrument changes and land use issues, among other things. The Surface Stations volunteers have provided us with a superb dataset, and we want to learn as much about station quality from it as we can.
================================================================
UPDATE: Since some people seemed unable to divine the link upstream, the pre-print version of the paper, posted on Dr. Pielke’s website is available here:
http://pielkeclimatesci.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/r-3671.pdf
– Anthony
UPDATE2: Dr. John Nielsen-Gammon, Texas State Climatologist and co-author, weighs in with his post:
Something for Everyone: Fall et al. 2011
As you may have heard, the long-awaited peer-reviewed analysis of the results of the SurfaceStations.org project has finally been released. I can’t wait to see the dueling headlines. Some will argue that the take-home message should be: Poor Station Siting Strongly Effects Temperature Trend Measurements, and will laugh at the idea that we can say with sufficient accuracy what has happened to our climate. Others will argue that the take-home message should be: Poor Station Siting Has No Effect on Temperature Trend Measurements, and will laugh at all the effort expended on a null result. Both sides will find solid evidence for their points of view in the paper. How can that be? How can one paper support opposing conclusions?
…
Here, in brief, are the answers: The poorest sites tend to be warmer. The minimum temperatures are warming faster at poorer sites than at better sites. The maximum temperatures are warming slower at poorer sites than at better sites. The adjustments reduce the differences by about half. The two effects are roughly equal and opposite so the mean temperature is rising at about the same rate across sites of different quality while the diurnal temperature range shows the biggest difference across sites.
On the one hand, this seems to be confirmation of the quality of the temperature record. All types of sites show the same mean temperature trend, so there’s no change necessary to our estimates of observed historical temperature trends in the United States.
On the other hand, there are several warning flags raised by this study. First, station siting is indeed important for the maximum and minimum temperature measurements. Second, the adjustments are only partly correcting the temperature record. Third, since the adjustments use data from all surrounding stations, there’s the danger that the mean trends are dominated by data from the poorer stations. (Less than ten percent of the USHCN stations are sited well enough to be considered appropriate for climate trend measurements.) Finally, and perhaps most important, are we really so lucky that the rest of the world would also have its poorly-sited stations have erroneous maximum and minimum temperature trends that just happen to be equal and opposite to each other?
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Rob Honeycutt – Thank you for your comments.
You wrote “But I think Pielke’s words are pretty clear here. Station siting quality has no effect on mean trends.” This is misinterpreting what we found. There is a statistically significant bias in the both the maximum and minimum surface temperature trends. They are of opposite in sign such that there is no statistically significant difference in the mean surface temperature.
If you want to think of these systematic biases at the poorly sited locations as errors, two errors do not create an accurate estimate. Also, our finding that using the best-sited stations, the diurnal temperature range in the lower 48 states has no
century-scale trend, while the poorly sited locations do, further emphasizes that the lack of a trend in the mean is not a robust result in general.
Is there an assumption that if a station is a Class 4 today, it has always been a Class 4?
Hypothesis: Suppose a station that is rated today as a Class 3 or 4 or 5 was originally setup properly as a Class 1 or 2? The assumption being that overtime, the siting quality of the station deteriorates as roads get paved, irrigation and A/C systems get installed. Would such a station show a materially different trend over its history?
Are there non-zero mean offsets in the minimum, maximum and means by Class compared to Class 1?
REPLY: We believe it would, the problem is that the metadata is quite incomplete. – Anthony
For myself, the paper gives me more confidence in the temperature record. The data isn’t perfect but if you can extract small signals like biases from CRN ratings that have logical causes and effects, the signal to noise ratio must be pretty good and the data isn’t hopelessly corrupted IMO.
This is a good feeling. I am a skeptic but keeping an open mind is critical and I welcome hard data that changes my perspective. If you can’t change your opinion, you are pig headed and a fool.
Even though this study does not reinforce my position on AGW, I accept it and have a better understanding of the debate having read it.
I believe we humans are adding a significant amount of CO2 to the atmosphere but I don’t think the warming caused by it is. Yes it is believable that CO2 warming exists but I am not convinced it has a real measurable effect above the random background noise.
Rob Honeycutt, do you have evidence beyond GCMS or statistical manipulations that might convince me I am wrong? Hard data, experimental data, or at least some sort of logical argument I can follow?
Good job fellas! Still would like to see us use the best stations to monitor climate trends though.
The warming climate is not so unusual for some areas, as it is for others. MN has seen it this warm before back in the 30’s and 40’s. Just pull up 100+ yr stations in the GISS charts and you’ll see what I mean.
Regional changes are what is important, and are those changes unusual for that region. And if so, why?
To Steve Mosher (1:28):
You nailed it pretty well when you said this:
“So one way to get the debate you want is to put your numbers down.
1. UHI ( ~.1c)
2. NV ( ~.3c)
3. GHG (.4c)”
I would add two things.
(1) The satellite record, for the last 30 plus years, shows a slighly smaller rate of temperature increase, than for land-based records. That should be accounted for as well. Could we would be talking about 0.7 degrees warming, not 0.8, when the dust settles? It doesn’t seem like a lot, but it means there is less warming for various sources to explain. On the other hand, if the slight discrepancy is due to the satellite record being relative immune to UHI effects, then your first point already captures satellite data differences from the land record.
(2) It isn’t just GHGs, but all anthropogenic emissions. So you have to add in the warming from increased methane and black carbon and tropospheric ozone and the cooling from increased sulfate. I don’t know how they balance out over the past century, but they influence temperatures and we can’t ignore that.
RE: “ Metadata is quite incomplete
No doubt that it is. However, there may be opportunity for some data and/or physical experiments on how big the problem might be. It could serve as a boundary criteria; “it could be this much, unlikely to be more.”
Steven Mosher: Put me down for:.
1. UHI ( ~0.4 to 0.6 c)
2. NV ( ~ balance)
3. GHG (~.1 – .4 c)
Given where the data is coming from, UHI is more than half the perceived signal.
There’s one thing I don’t understand (yes well haha just hold on to yer pants for decency ) what is that actual goal of the study?
If the goal was to make a show of how ridiculous the climate hippies hubris at trying to correct “faulty” readings is, then you succeeded, I say. But if your goal is to further the knowledge of man in some other aspect it would be real nice if you guys could make a separate post where you explain it exclusively for that purpose for the rest of us normal geniuses. 😉
“rpielke” mentions:
“…our finding that using the best-sited stations, the diurnal temperature range in the lower 48 states has no century-scale trend, while the poorly sited locations do….”
Wouldn’t that be a good headline? The fact that the two errors cancel each other out would seem to corroborate the temperature record, but assuming I am understanding this correctly, if the daytime trend comes only from poorly sited stations, that would tend to discredit the temperature record.
Rob Honeycutt says:
May 11, 2011 at 2:39 pm
But I then need to ask… Do you believe this will, in any way, alter the big picture in climate science related to what is happening with global climate?
=========
I might ask the same of yourself, regarding current policies to mitigate AGW , which of course is what the debate is all about.
Anthony, congratulations to you and your fellow authors for getting through the peer review process. Although I suspect that if ” Minimum temperature warming trends are overestimated at poorer sites” made it into press, your more adversarial reviewers may have been asleep at the wheel 🙂
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/bioscifacpub/150/
http://www.met.sjsu.edu/~wittaya/journals/LargeScaleWarmingIsnotUrban.pdf
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/urban/Parker_JClimate2006.pdf
As a layman, one thing springs to mind. If the history of instrument measurments is so flakey, as you have proven, who in their right mind would use a proxy ?
EO
Stephen Rasey says:
UHI ( ~0.4 to 0.6 c)
Well lets review what we actually know. If UHI is that large, then what?
First a bit of logic. The land is 30% of the planet. The ocean is 70%.
Lets assume you were correct as do some simple math. I’ll just use some
approximate figures and people can look up more accurate figures to get a handle
on things.
Land = ~1C
Ocean = ~ .7C
1*.3 + .7*.7 = ~.8C
Now, you think that as much as .6C of the Land is Bias
Land = .4C
Ocean = .7C
PROBLEM. we know that the air over the land is generally warmer than the temp of the 1 meter of water.
PROBLEM. we know from satillites (UHA) which measure the troposphere that UHI
cannot be this big.
PROBLEM. even a pristine all rural dataset of land sites shows more warming that this.
PROBLEM. even IF it was this bad you get the following.
.4*.3 + .7*.7 = .6C of warming as opposed to .8C of warming
If you look at all the studies done the highest figure for UHI is around .3C, The lowest figure is 0, Jones figure is .05C.
based on what we know, a figure between 0C and .3C is consistent with our best knowledge. With a substantial amount of work I would NOT accpet a figure outside this range. Put it this way, if it were bigger than .3C you would see it in UHA.
we dont.
“(1) The satellite record, for the last 30 plus years, shows a slighly smaller rate of temperature increase, than for land-based records. That should be accounted for as well. Could we would be talking about 0.7 degrees warming, not 0.8, when the dust settles? It doesn’t seem like a lot, but it means there is less warming for various sources to explain. On the other hand, if the slight discrepancy is due to the satellite record being relative immune to UHI effects, then your first point already captures satellite data differences from the land record.”
Yes, so a few years of looking at this puts me squarely in the camp that UHI could be
on the order of .1C to .15C.. or about TWICE what Jones estimated. Anything bigger than that would be easily detected.
here is the thing. the SMALLER the UHI effect is, the BETTER your criteria for separating urban from rural needs to be. Think about that. when we divide stations into rural and urban that categorization will have error. The bigger UHI is, the less important that screen is. the smaller UHI is, the more important that screen is
Well done to all involved, and particular congratulations to Anthony and Evan for having completed this leg of the journey.
Personally, I have always said that even if surfacestations.org proved that station siting had zero impact on the record, *it would have been no less worthy a project than if it showed problems* (as apparently it has). You can’t know until you know, and it was blindingly obvious in 2007 that there was utterly *no* reason to have confidence.
I mean no disrespect (in fact, exactly the opposite) when I say that I’m also confident that this group of authors are only the first and not the last to slice and dice this data in ways that will be fruitful to our understanding of the climate record.
@ur momisugly Anthony Watts and Steve Moscher
@ur momisuglyAnthony,
I wonder if the methology is capable of addressing the global mean temperature issue:
1. Station siting has an influence on absolute temperatures, but when it comes to temperature trends, small alterations around 1/2 classified station have a similar effect on trends as big alterations around 3/4/5 stations (see for example the effect on trends caused by population increase). We may then see the UHI / land use change effect on trends equally spread among all categories but still not quantifiable.
2. The US data shows the warmest year in 1934 what is rather atypical. Further, according to McIntyre, the GISS UHI correction appears to be working reasonably well in the US, while it fails anywhere else (because there are as man upwards as downwards corrections). This may limit the validity of these results on the 98% rest of the earth’s land area.
@ur momisuglySteve,
Microsite bias: You probably meant UAH and not UHA. UAH lower tropospheric trend should be significantly higher than ground based trends (according to all climate models). If it is not, climate models have problems not only with the complexity of climate but the basics as well. It may be more likely, that ground based trends are inflated.
Mesoscale/UHI: Your 0.15 deg guess doesn’t agree with various papers by McKitrick, Pielke and others and again with UAH data.
Sampling: No issue with that.
Summary lacks of the uncertainty arising from sea surface data. Land data contributes on 1/3, and the really big data adjustments – up to the order of the whole warming – have been done on sea surface data.
It is claimed that the minimum temperature trend and maximum temperature trend cancel out “fortuitously”. That is an assumption that should be tested. I think that there is a reason for it.
So it’s time to do an experiment instead of relying on mistaken common sense. Build two weather stations side-by-side. One perfect and the other with asphalt and run both for a year. See then if the max and min trends cancel out.
Re Steven Mosher defining the terms of the debate:
I find it quite interesting that there is an “accepted” warming of 0.8 degrees C (or 0.7 or any other number) during the past century, when so very many temperature records show zero warming. It is highly unlikely that a multitude of temperature records, from different locations across the USA, would all be unaffected by GHG, if there is a GHG effect. And yes, I’ve read and understand the “physics” argument for GHG warming. I don’t agree with it for reasons I’ve explained before.
It is a strange physics that allows a CO2 effect to be non-existent in some cities or other locations but not all such locations.
Anthony, I think you should add a internal link to the Gibbas 2011 paper
An Investigation of Temperature Trends from weather station observations representing various locations across Utah (21.5mb PDF) by Mark Gibbas
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/04/an-investigation-of-ushcn-station-siting-issues-using-a-cleaned-dataset/
It is a good compliment to yours. You address station Class. Gibbas brings up Land use and changes in land use over time and its affect on temperature records. They are certainly related, but different in the dimension of study.
steven mosher says: May 11, 2011 at 4:11 pm
I have to agree with Roger Sowell. Steven Mosher, is using uncertainty bands far too narrow. And frankly, I think I let him bully me into a UHI high side as low as 0.6. The problem is that his 0.8 deg C overall has lots of uncertainty to and I let him frame the question.
In his reply to me, he takes it as a given that the Oceans have warmed 0.7 dec C. Yea, like we have 100 year temperature records from a well sampled space of the ocean surface. Sorry Steven, just because you say so, doesn’t make me believe it.
You want to show me a link to a non-IPCC report that supports 0.7 deg +/- 0.0 ocean warming, I’ll look it up. Meanwhile, the first link I found was this: http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/05/14/questioning-ocean-warming/ which tells me the data is far less certain.
WUWT ENSO pages http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/enso/
don’t make 0.7 deg C / century ocean Warming a slam-dunk either.
I don’t deny that temperatures and sea level can move up and down. I’m a geoscientist. Climate change has been going on for 4 billion years without the hand of man involved.
For instance, here is an interesting paper about paleo coastal fossil dunes in NZ.
Disappearing beaches: hydro dams and rising seas
by Dr J Floor Anthoni (2000)
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/beach.htm
with a very interesting sea level chart on:
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/beachdam.htm
This chart is titled
Mean Sea Level and Tropical Temperature
over the past four ice ages.
The X-axis runs from 300 Kya to 0
The Y -axies data ranges are Temperature 22 to 29 deg C
and mean sea level (-100 m to +100 m)
but here is the kicker:
The reference is “After Fairbridge 1961 and Zeuner 1959”
about 15 years before Vail et al from Exxon published their eustatic curves.
Here is a link to a Fairbridge bio:
http://www.lavoisier.com.au/articles/greenhouse-science/solar-cycles/RichardMackeyForum2008.pdf
I think what you did is very good Anthony. You seem to have eliminated the UHI and instrument error as major players in the game. That is huge. Simplification is always good.
I also think if you compare the warming trend from the 1910’s to the 1940’s with the warming trend from the 1970’s to 2000, assuming that the earlier trend is natural and the slope of the later trend was possibly caused by CO2, the difference in the two slopes indicate that CO2 contributed very little. Almost the entire temperature increase can be attributed to natural cycles.
REPLY: The study didn’t look at instrumentation error at all, so your conclusion is not part of the paper. – Anthony
Congrats Anthony et al.
I guess this answers a few questions, mainly why other groups were finding the mean didn’t change much between CRN 1 and 5 for example, when that seemed implausible. This answers why that is so a little better.
But then, there ARE differences between the classifications and in the unadjusted raw data versus the adjusted data ( by classification) which are puzzling. For one, I wouldn’t have expected the TOB adjustment to be so large since 1980 (maybe 1920 but not 1980).
There are larger differences in the data since 1895 (which is not particularly highlighted unless one reads the whole paper very carefully). I think there is alot of veiled references which the peer-review probably required that are evident. It is a little hard to tell since the draft paper in this form is not really clear which are the data shown in Figures 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12.
Generally, I think the spin will be that there is not as much difference in the station ranking as the actual data shows. Getting it published probably required this so I await the follow-up studies. I note that a 0.3C is quoted in the conclusion.
Roger Sowell says:
May 11, 2011 at 4:38 pm
It is a strange physics that allows a CO2 effect to be non-existent in some cities or other locations but not all such locations.
=======================================================
Roger, do you know where Woodfortrees gets their temp data?
It’s confusing to me that almost without exception, every state you pull up shows a negative temp trend.
For example:
Alabama
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/90-years-of-cooling-in-alabama-led-to-the-disastrous-tornado-outbreak/#comments
Georgia
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/global-warming-ravishing-newts-home-state/#comments
and of course, the old press releases contradict everything they are trying to say now:
Date: January 29, 1989 Publication: Austin American-Statesman
WASHINGTON – If there is a global-warming trend, it has not shown up in records of the average annual temperature of the United States going back to 1895, according to researchers at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
So what gives?
steven mosher says:
May 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm
So one way to get the debate you want is to put your numbers down.
1. UHI ( ~.1c)
2. NV ( ~.3c)
3. GHG (.4c)
=====================================================
No mosh, to get the debate I want is to start with the truth
1. LAPT (lied about past temperatures) (~.4c)
2. APTD (adjusted past temperatures down) (~.4c)
3. MAT (makeup Arctic temperatures) (~.4c)
@Steve mosher
“You want a debate IN climate science, that is where the debate is.”
As a layperson who has now read quite a bit in this area I am impressed with your summary of this part of the debate IN climate science… but surely the other really important part of the debate is the question of “CO2 forcing”?
If we (in Australia) are being asked to wear a “Carbon Tax” must the question of CO2 forcing not be central to our concerns? I take note of Drs. Richard Lindzen and Bob Carter on this matter (amongst others).
Great science Anthony and others. I look forward to further analysis of the data.
I would like to help with a similar survey of weather recording sites in Australia if that is going to occur. My first problem is knowing how to locate “official” sites in Australia that are used for the various global temperature data sets… can anyone set me on the right path?
The “trend” of siting quality seems to be the dominant “forcing driver”. I.e., it gets worse as time goes on, mainly through urban encroachment — exacerbated most recently by disingenuous “adjusting” of records.