“Milder winter temperatures will decrease heavy snowstorms,” says the IPCC in 2001.
Recent snows suggest much for AGW induced snow worries, but still the hype continues:
“Heavy snowstorms are not inconsistent with a warming planet,” said Jeff Masters, director of meteorology for www.wunderground.com (source Breitbart)
Heavy snow would be tragic if it weren’t so funny. Memo to Dr. Masters: with the current mindset, nothing is inconsistent with global warming. – Anthony
By Joe D’Aleo, ICECAP
It is called “Miracle March 2011” in the Sierra. At Boreal, near Donner Summit, as of a few days ago, they had received 217 inches this March bringing the seasonal snowfall to 762 inches. The previous record was 662 inches in 1994/95. The recent prolonged storm brought 6-7 feet of snow. The normal for the season is around 400 inches. Their snowbase is between 275 and 375 inches (20-30 feet).
The Snow Water Equivalent is well above normal and bodes well for both agriculture and coastal cities which rely on the melting snow for irrigation and drinking water. There have been battles for decades over how much water the farmers should get to use in the long dry growing season.
As show above, and confirmed below, this wet season has brought over 80 inches of water equivalent to some of the higher terrain.
RGates said “It seems AGW skeptics want to point out heavy snowfall in the winter as a sign the world’s not warming,”
I think the snow stories are merely being compared to the past predictions of less snow.
Falsifying predictions is just basic science.
R. Gates said:
So, does that 100,000 years of ice-core data show snow fall diminishing constantly during lowering temperatures or staying the same?
Or does it show a cyclic behavior?
@ur momisugly R Gates.
Your comment “Greater accumulation (of snow) is generally a sign of warmer, not cooler climate:” is a gross oversimplification. In areas where the winter temperature hovers just below freezing, a warmer climate means rain and not snow.
Here in my small area of the world, my pond is frozen solid, the first time in 6 years this late in the year. It has been a colder winter for sure. Yes, just weather, although 1998 was the warmest year on record lest we forget. Or was it 2003? Oh wait, they’re changing the graphs again…
Greater accumulation means warmer climate? I can’t believe you actually posted that. Any fool knows that the ground has to be cold to get snow accumulation.
Also, aren’t you tired of saying this same thing over and over on here, only to get slapped down? I’ve lost count of the number of times you’ve said this absurdity, only to have someone post a reply documenting how wrong you are, and you then mysteriously vanish into the either, never to reply again. Is your whole purpose to simply troll early-troll often?
Donner Pass, huh? I seem to remember some story about a pretty cold, snowed in winter there once. About 165 years ago, I think.
“”””” Jeremy says:
March 29, 2011 at 8:00 am
Of course, California will still say it is in a drought condition.
I appreciate that California has fantastic growing conditions, but if we’re using sierra-snow-pack water to grow rice in areas too arid for rice and then telling the large population centers they can’t water their lawns, we’re being very dumb (California does this). “””””
Let me Guess, Jeremy, you are NOT a central valley farmer ?
Those folks have two sources of water, besides the not too plentiful rain. One is that Sierra snow pack melt water; which isn’t too dependable, and the other is the underground “water”, actually a solution of all sorts of chemical salts. If you tell the farmers that you need that Sierra snow pack melt water, to water all the golf courses in Southern California; all built where Mother Gaia, never wanted to have a golf course in the first place, then those farmers have little choice but to pump that saline solution up from the depths, and spread it over their valuable croplands to turn it into a salt marsh. As the soil gets saltier and saltier, they have to rotate their crops from desirable valuable nutritious food crops, to less desirable and nutritious, but more salt tolerant crops; inevitably ending up with the one thing which will still grow;which is cotton. So California grows a lot of cotton, in exchange for watering the greens on those out of place SoCal goof courses.
Once in a great while; Mother Gaia shines on California, with a bountiful supply of Sierra snow pack melt; enough for all the silly game holes, and for the CV farmers.
So the Farmers flood their land with the plentiful snow melt water, and turn their lands into a paradise for migratory birds, to come and wade and feed in the rice fields, that they plant in that flooded land. The flood waters kill off all the weeds so the farmer doesn’t have to put poisonous chemicals on his land; and at the same time, the excess flood water, slowly seeps back down to the primordial depths, taking all those destructive salts with it, back out of harms way. A season (or maybe two) of valuable rice production gives the farmer the boost that he needs so he can go back to growing more market valuable and nutritious foods, and start the cycle all over again.
And California, can produce rice a lot better, and cheaper, that they can in say Japan.
It’s those goof courses Jeremy, that are screwing up the natural system; not the rice farmers.
Those “large population centers” wouldn’t be a euphemism for that anomalous spread built in a known arid desert bowl; where grass was never normally groing; aka Los Angeles; or would it ? It’s those large population centers that are built in arid dry areas that were never intended to grow anything besides sage brush and cactus, that are the problem; not the rice farms.
Here’s a little perspective on the Sierra snowpack, and how it bodes for the San Joaquin….especially the european influence since 1850
http://www.sierranaturenotes.com/naturenotes/StineClimate2.htm
…and of course, the global warming reference along with the perfectly normal droughts..
http://www.sierranaturenotes.com/naturenotes/paleodrought2.htm
I’m reminded of the joke, if the facts don’t conform to the theory, the facts must be ignored.
IF increased heat causes more cold an snow, then you should be able to make ice by putting a pan of water in the stove and turning up the heat!!! 😉
“Generally though, warmer winters can lead to greater snowfall in areas prone to snowfall because a warmer atmosphere can hold more moisture, until such time as the world warms enough that the snow will fall as rain.”
Then why were the snow levels in New England significantly below the average for the last 30 years, prior to 2009 (at which time they recovered)?
This is an example of Warmists always being right.
NoAstronomer says:
March 29, 2011 at 8:17 am
I’m not familiar with the spring time pattern of snow melt on the west coast, but in many cases this much snow can lead to catastrophic floods. Is that a concern in this case?
Yes. Rain on snow can create a serious flooding problem. And if the reservoirs are already nearly full, we have a problem Houston.
Current reservoir levels [1] indicate that the reservoirs that matter most for the Sacramento River, Shasta, Oroville and Folsom have some capacity remaining, but perhaps not enough to handle a big warm storm. All of these are above historic average levels now.
Dam operators are releasing water now [2]. If snow melts rapidly, and reservoirs fill quickly, dam operators will have no choice but to let the water flow over the dams unchecked. California has attempted to implement flood control measures without construction of more reservoir capacity [3]. One day, maybe sooner rather than later, these systems will be tested.
See:
1) http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/resapp/getResGraphsMain.action
2) http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/03/16/wet-weather-causing-mudslides-flooding-worries-and-toppled-trees/
3) http://www.safca.org/floodRisk/index.html
Remind how warm it was during this winter in the United States, UK and the rest of Europe in December? There was near panick in the UK over the snow AND cold. Crabs died off the coast. Where was the warmth you talk about?
I have also read that Scotland and many ski resorts in the European Alps had a terrific season which was entirely consistent with the new Warmcold Theory.
Cold on land and sea. Where was your heat?
R. Gates says: (March 29, 2011 at 8:02 am)
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/alley2000/alley2000.gif
Your own link shows a world cooling since the start of this interglacial. Why don’t you believe it?
Aside from that, a warm, wet world is much better than a cold, dry one. Ask anyone who lives elsewhere in our Solar System.
So, What is the math for determining Normal/time?
We have 60cm snow in Helsinki area in Finland today. It melts away on average that 30.3 we dont have snow. Last year we get snow allmost month earlier than average and now it last’s month later because this much snow won’t melt in a day. Is this global warming?
Lake Shasta is essentially full, in draw down and will be spilling most of the spring runoff.
It is currently 12 feet below the Dam crest and spilling 55% more than is coming in.
http://www.shastalake.com/shastalake/
Shasta Lake Water Level
Measured on: March 28, 2011
Shasta Lake water level (daily): 1054.08 feet
(Elevation above sea level – Full lake elevation and dam crest is 1067 feet)
Distance from dam crest: 12.92 feet
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryDaily?SHA
Daily inflow/outflow March 28th, 2011
Outflow 38975 cfs
Inflow 25296 cfs
Nope.
Interesting point to try to make since all golf courses in LA county are required to use reclaimed wastewater for their grass.
So the Farmers flood their land with the plentiful snow melt water, and turn their lands into a paradise for migratory birds, to come and wade and feed in the rice fields, that they plant in that flooded land. The flood waters kill off all the weeds so the farmer doesn’t have to put poisonous chemicals on his land; and at the same time, the excess flood water, slowly seeps back down to the primordial depths, taking all those destructive salts with it, back out of harms way. A season (or maybe two) of valuable rice production gives the farmer the boost that he needs so he can go back to growing more market valuable and nutritious foods, and start the cycle all over again.
It’s nice to see it goes in cycles. The problem is that the cycle of drought never ends. So if the CV farmers are so cyclical in their needs, why is it every other living thing in CA is always told they can’t wash their clothes too much?
And California, can produce rice a lot better, and cheaper, that they can in say Japan.
Not really a fair comparison since Japan is 8th on the world rice supplier list, with less than 6% of the world exports, and only a 1000 metric tons more than the entire U.S production.
I’m sure New Yorkers would not share your opinion that central park screws up the natural ecosystem. And no, I don’t think that’s putting words in your mouth. Golf courses are a more natural setting than urban sprawl.
Actually they’re a euphemism for industrial centers that make up most of the State’s economy.
This explains why the UK nearly ran out of grit there. Aiports closed down due to snow accumulation.
The UK has just had its COLDEST December for 100 years. What part of cold don’t you understand. Europeran COLD records also fell. Play another record sunshine!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/05/december-coldest-uk-month-100-years
Typo:
This explains why the UK nearly ran out of grit their [there].
Gates,
When the US and Europe has a shortage of snowfall was that consistent with a warmer climate? You can’t have it both ways.
Until such time as a knowledgeable and respected warmist goes on record and states exactly what is inconsistent with their precious global warming theory, I cannot consider that the theory of global warming has any validity at all as until it is falsifiable then it cannot be considered proven or disproved and thus we should spend nothing at all to prevent some fantasy fairy tale that doesn’t even pass the first basic rule of a scientific theory.
Karen D,
No, no, the prediction was right and the observation was wrong.
I mean, you can’t have people going outside and measuring things; they might hurt themselves or find out inconvenient things.
Much better to predict things and then just tell people that that is what has happened.
Hey, R. Gates:
If you’re going to make claims, show your math. That, and read this blog- back on Feb. 17 your unsupported affirmation was absolutely demolished by this guest post: Regarding Thermodynamics And Heat Transfer
Perhaps we should just call you Al Gore Jr. Jr.
If it keeps going like this, when world temperatures really start climbing,
the winter roads up there will be covered with Glaciers !
Jeremy says:
March 29, 2011 at 8:00 am
…
I appreciate that California has fantastic growing conditions, but if we’re using sierra-snow-pack water to grow rice in areas too arid for rice and then telling the large population centers they can’t water their lawns, we’re being very dumb (California does this).
You can’t eat your lawn (or the greens or fairways at the golf course for that matter), while sales of rice bring in taxes. And, after all, in most of California you are growing your lawn in “areas too arid” for lawns as well, and the lawns cumulatively use up a LOT of water, don’tcha know.
The Northern Hemisphere snow extent has also been of record size the past two years.
For the area of snow cover to increase, temperatures must be cooler than normal. The snow extent can only grow in extent for one primary reason, it is cold enough to snow in areas where it normally rains.
Snow extent increases due to cooler temperatures and not ‘global warming’.