Wikileaks first climate cables
By Ecotretas
Reading through the few Wikileaks cables related to climate, the tip of the iceberg becomes visible. The most interesting seems to involve the usual pressures related to top level nominations: in this case, the nomination for the IPCC Group II organization comes to light. The original cable is still not known, but it is said to state that Christopher Field had no opposition; the other proposed position for co-chair, Mostafa Jafari, an Iran scientist, was not acceptable, although a qualified scientist. The cable apparently states that Rajendra Pachauri, head of the IPCC, promised background collaboration, and non-identification of the US pressures. The Austrian delegate, which lead the selection process, also agreed on the veto on Jafari.
In other cables, we can see the unreal demands being made by some countries in the World. The developed countries, pressured by alarmists, are “falling all over itself to browbeat them into taking money to go along with a plan to give them more money“. But this is starting to change: “The Danes said they are “fed up”” because the reasons behind the show are no longer climate: “Gisela Ulloa, a member of Bolivian delegations to earlier COP meetings told us the GOB’s position is aimed at creating an alternative development model consistent with Morales’s anti-capitalist philosophy.”
Another profound cable relates to Saudi Arabia. One only has to read the following, to understand what is really happening (bold is my responsibility):
Is Al-Naimi the Problem?
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9. (S) Minister Al-Naimi has consistently been rational and practical in talking with western delegations about climate change, noting that Saudi Arabia had to address its development concerns, but conceding that the world needs to work together to address climate change. These reassuring statements stand in sharp contrast to Al-Sabban’s public comments, such as questioning the science behind climate change just before Copenhagen, and his often obstructionist behavior, as reported by a number of Embassies in Riyadh, during working-level negotiations. Senior Ministry of Petroleum officials have reassured us after each of Al-Sabban’s public outbursts over the last six months that he has been “tamed” and brought back onto the reservation. The frequency and number of times that Al-Sabban steps out of line, and the apparent lack of any sanction, raises questions about the real Saudi position on climate change.
And than we see “that Pope Benedict had firmly established his “green” reputation“, which “even if discreetly, is significant because the Vatican is often reluctant to appear to compromise its independence and moral authority by associating itself with particular lobbying efforts“. Religion, at it’s best.
What really strikes us is the fact that all this Copenhagen/Cancun stuff has nothing to do with the Climate, or saving the World. It’s about political positioning, money, and plain old fascism cult promotion. But as referred before, this is only the tip of the iceberg. More is to come, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re going to be answered about who is behind Climategate, or Al Gore’s Nobel nomination, or the facts behind all the IPCC mess. Stay tuned…
And what is your view, Mr P Richie?
Your latter copy’n’paste is certainly approved by me, but the former may appear a little fragile.
Along with Prince Charles, the pope seems to have involved himself in this nonsense.
As for the former, he is a tad barmy, in my opinion.
The pope should know better than to involve himself in political wrangles.
Global scale fraud.
Louis says:
December 4, 2010 at 1:59 pm
I think the Pope failed to read this encyclical before signing it.
I find it interesting to see the division WikiLeaks is illuminating between “conservatives” who accept an all invasive and omniscient state and true libertarians who “challenge the cult of the omnipotent state” .
Video killed the Radio Star ; Hopefully the Web will neuter the arrogant club-wielding centralized state .
I believe a traditional “conservative”, Bob, is one who wants and works toward limited government, limited taxation, and limited intrusion into our personal lives. A traditional “conservative” believes in emphasis on the individual, limited local government, and the pursuit of happiness for all in peace. Prosperity will be the end result.
The scoundrels who leaked this information, on the other hand, are just that–scoundrels of the lowest order; the soundrels they have exposed are equally described.
I’d say none of them can be defined as traditional “conservatives”.
Thomas says:
December 4, 2010 at 11:16 am
Must be strange for you americans: May it be possible, that Wikileaks is not the devil or a part of Al Kaida? I think, that Wikileaks only makes informations public, that many politicians don’t like to read.
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You’re just exchanging the governments’ censorship for the censorship of outfits like Wiki-Leak’s, the NYT’s, and Guardian. We don’t know how much information these organizations are holding back. They will no doubt hold back whatever it deems that the public “can’t handle” i.e. info that may lead the public to not think the way that they don’t want them to. You may trust the NYT’s and WikiLeaks.
There is also the matter of legitimate state secrets and protecting people’s lives that stuck their necks out for the USA in confidence. You may not care about those people’s well being.
Rocky Road: a typical liberal vs conservative discussion:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrqdZFFb5c&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3]
“Religion at it’s best” = “Religion at it is best”. Huh?
I understand the ISP that hosted Wikileaks pulled the site. Within hours however, other ISP’s came to the rescue and hosted the site. I also understand the creator has gone in to hiding with threats of death. He’s also said, I believe, that there are “…100 encrypted copies…” (Of the databse I assume, I cought the tail end of a newscast) and “…if anything should happen they would be released in part…” (Or in full?).
Could be good, could be bad but it is clear, as each day passes, more and more people are discovering AGW for what it is.
Smokey says:
December 4, 2010 at 5:10 pm
You’re right-that’s the ultimate in hypocricy–no wonder the liberals can barely stand “average American citizens” as Rangel likes to say. (Remends me of Ms. Sutton on “The Wind at My Back”.) The liberals are so myopic they might just as well be wearing black glasses.
Ron Paul
Wikileaks- In a free society, we are supposed to know the truth.
In a society where truth becomes treason, we are in big trouble.
To Rational Debate:
You stated: “In the USA, pre-Obama, that didn’t seem to be the case and our Congress kept things in check. Now Obama is strongly on board, and doing everything he can to go around Congress and force this on us, as are all too many states.”
Where were you? In 2008, McCain had stated he believed in global warming and the so-called ‘cap and trade’ bill. Senator Imhofe of OK was fighting an increasingly lonely battle and being branded as a kook. Starting in 2007, the Lieberman-Warner bill was pushed in the Senate–characterized as “the toughest climate change legislation to make it to the Senate floor”. That bill failed, but then Nancy Pelosi force-marches the Waxman-Markey bill through the House in 2009. Eventually the Senate managed to kill it, but with 54 Senators voting for it.
This is a far cry indeed from when the Senate voted 95-0 in 1997 against ratifying the Kyoto protocol.
carlo says:
December 4, 2010 at 7:21 pm
I have a son that serves on a nuclear sub–were you to tell the enemy the location of that boat so it could be destroyed, you would indeed be guilty of treason. And murder.
Kapiche?
So much for your “truth telling”…
There is a good percentage of people on WUWT who can work this out..
“..stage-managed and filtered.”
“Global scale fraud.”
“To me it looks like a carefully planned operation to influence public opinion; putting them out in the open in a precisely planned sequence. You are being played. Take your own guess about who the puppetmaster is.”
“A world-wide fraud.”
“Don’t hold your breath waiting for wikileaks to reveal something damaging to AGW. Since they control the flow of information they can withhold anything that doesn’t agree with their view of the world.”
Good advice!
Pay no attention to wikileaks.
Its a scam!
They will only use it discredit CLIMATEGATE.. and threaten or scare any other potential whistleblower.
Julian Assange, a modern hero or info terrorist?
The system of world governance has evolved into a secretive corrupt federation of like minded groups, determined to subvert democratic principles and create a structure you might call the NWO. A common purpose binds the key players who need the shelter of secrecy in which to work, the emails have shed a little light on this murky world to which we are neither welcome or needed.
There has been a concerted effort to separate the ruled from the ruler and the democratic principles of accountability from governance while the lower orders are increasingly expected to obey and pay. Secrets breed secrets and secrecy breeds a state of affairs that we should all be very concerned about, our leaders have taken the art of secret back door deals in sealed off rooms too far, they have fallen for the age old traps and made the moral mistakes of governing classes throughout history. This political class decided that fast secret back door dealing bypassed the open and slow democratic process and allowed them freedom to decide and enact policy across borders very quickly. Once democratic principles are subverted/set aside it can only ever lead to one conclusion, corruption and dictatorship and the separation of the people from their government.
The political class have to realise that democratic principles cannot be subverted without dire consequences, free and open and honest dealings are slow and often difficult but the results they bring are rock solid whereas the secret stitch up private back room deals are often built on shifting sands. There are no easy short cut methods in true open honest democracies yet the temptation to try and find these lazy man options always persist in the minds of the political classes.
The lesson is that slow and steady and open democratic principles are the only sure way to deal with the problems we face today, the sooner the political classes acknowledge their mistake and commit to these principles the quicker we will be able to move on and prosper. There is a passage in the Bible that describes the issue perfectly but I cannot remember it, can anyone help?
Perhaps the US should keep their state secrets wherever Obama hides his college papers.
I’ve always wondered if there is any politician who wants any sort of real outcome to these talks. It strikes me the talks process itself that has value, and I don’t just mean the gravytrain.
Politicians running moribund western economies with few-to-no ideas about how to move society forward can gain the moral authority of concern for the future without having to make any hard decisions like screwing peoples standards of living. Meanwhile they have the added advantage of frigthening the crap out of their populus.
These talks will continue on and on until they stop playing this legitimising role.
Cassandra King says: December 4, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Julian Assange, a modern hero or info terrorist?
The lesson is that slow and steady and open democratic principles are the only sure way to deal with the problems we face today, the sooner the political classes acknowledge their mistake and commit to these principles the quicker we will be able to move on and prosper
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Cassandra King. I agree with the thrust of what you have put your finger on here. My concern is that the politicians have been led (misled?) by the multi nationals who are the real purveyors of power. My main concern is that the ordinary folk who are being systematically screwed by all this may not have the ability to resist until much more damage is done. Does this have to lead to a bloodbath?
Douglas
Typo: “And than we see”.
“There is also the matter of legitimate state secrets and protecting people’s lives that stuck their necks out for the USA in confidence. You may not care about those people’s well being.”
If diplomats can’t stand the heat from the light shone on them, they should stay out of diplomacy.
Don’t forget that Wikileaks is not doing this on their own – the left wing press is colluding with them and is providing most of the manpower in sifting through the mass of leaked information before choosing what to publish.
You should, therefore, assume that there is an inevitable bias in the information published.
A little something for those looking to clear out their stomachs:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11912566
Doug questions Cassandra King “I agree with the thrust of what you have put your finger on here. My concern is that the politicians have been led (misled?) by the multi nationals who are the real purveyors of power. ”
I worked for decades at high levels in multinationals. I saw no significant domineering behaviour. Instead, I was involved in a constant battle to curb political excesses and so preserve the freedoms of the people.
Doug, can you quote any evidence that you have that multinationals are the real purveyors of power? They are the real providers of provisions, but that’s about as accusatory as I would go. Let’s hear examples.
Wikileaks about poor soldiering in Afghanistan by British soldiers have been shown to be false since today it is reported that in Sangin province, where the Taliban ruled, there are now many schools with qualified teachers, bazaars running enthusiastically and farmers working in their fields without fear where with Taliban rule none of this happened. This is down to the British Soldier who is now free from much political input and runs things as they should be. Areas where Americans patrolled in numbers of 100 strong are now patrolled by 3Para in units of 10 using their tried and tested methods which enable them to repel and suppress and ambush. The Taliban are now nowhere to be seen and locals talk to the troops who in turn give help and medical support. May this continue as the way for Afghanistan to go and troops return home.
The problem with any leaks is that invariably they are so out of date as to be useless.