Japan in 1997:
Japan today:
Cancún climate change summit: Japan refuses to extend Kyoto protocol
Talks threatened with breakdown after forthright Japanese refusal to extend Kyoto emissions commitments
* John Vidal guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 1 December 2010 18.16 GMT
Japan refuses to extend Kyoto protocol. ‘The forthrightness of the statement took people by surprise,’ said one British official
The delicately balanced global climate talks in Cancún suffered a serious setback last night when Japan categorically stated its opposition to extending the Kyoto protocol – the binding international treaty that commits most of the world’s richest countries to making emission cuts.
The Kyoto protocol was adopted in Japan in 1997 by major emitting countries, who committed themselves to cut emissions by an average 5% on 1990 figures by 2012.
However the US congress refused to ratify it and remains outside the protocol.
The brief statement, made by Jun Arima, an official in the government’s economics trade and industry department, in an open session, was the strongest yet made against the protocol by one of the largest emitters of greenhouse gases.
He said: “Japan will not inscribe its target under the Kyoto protocol on any conditions or under any circumstances.”
The move came out of the blue for other delegations at the conference.
more at the Guardian
=========================================================
Reality bites, when Japan says something so blunt, you know they mean it – Anthony
h/t to WUWT reader Steve (Paris)
UPDATE: I’ve made this a “sticky” to stay at the top of WUWT awhile – Anthony
Robinson says:
December 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm
That’s one of the problems with citing all of these “outsider” authorities regarding climate change. The outsiders assume, incorrectly IMO, that the peer review process works the same in climate science as it does in their own field. It obviously does not. Certainly all fields will tend towards what is deemed mainstream, placing a higher standard on works that don’t fit with the generally accepted theories, but climate science is to the point where you either agree or don’t get published (not quite, as RO10 proves.)
Mark
BargHumer says:
December 2, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Barg – AHA! (lightbulb moment). I was once in Albany NY – when? About 1998 (January). And due to the amount of snow they had, they had to do the same thing. And what do we know about 1998?
Yep! It is all those snow removal trucks!
don,t worry australia will jump in and double there Kyoto agreement, we will save the world PS its still raining, major flooding and no sun and below avg temptures most of australia
I wonder what the echo chambers at the alarmist blogs are going to discuss going forward.
Cold Englishman says:
December 2, 2010 at 12:48 pm
All those free flights to exotic places for the ‘Canutes’ in East Anglia. How sad for them.
I hate to be picky on your spelling of ‘Canutes’ but:
1) There is no ‘A’ in the word
2) There is no ‘E’ in the word
3) The ‘U’ should be before the the ‘N’
In my opinion it is naive to view this as a turnaround on AGW. Rather, it is a rejection of the limited scope of the Kyoto agreement, in order to create greater pressure for a binding global agreement. Kyoto was disproportionately damaging to the economies of the signatories, but by its nature was unable to effect a global reduction in emissions, because it simply encouraged those countries outside the agreement to take up the slack. That is why extending it would be pointless, and why Japan is opposed to such an extension. This diplomatic positioning by Japan will probably make it somewhat easier to reach agreement on a stronger treaty, and somewhat more likely that Cancun will be a “success”, though of course there are still major impediments due to the divergence of interests between the more developed countries (EU, G10, etc.) and less developed countries (“third world”).
“Kyoto has achieved precisely nothing”
Nonsense. It has transfered millions of jobs from the US to China and India all in the name of being green. And it has helped China burn a lot of coal.
We have to tell it like it is. Everything about global warming has become all too predictable.
Phil Jones can admit that there has been no global warming since 1995 and that will be ignored by AGW True Believers. We can see a flat line of global average temperatures since 1999 and AGW True Believers will ignore it. We can see a cooling trend since 2002 and AGW True Believers will deny it.
There is no finding, in fact, that will challenge an AGW True Believer to conclude that the Earth has warmed and cooled and may continue to cool without human help. The oceans are cooling now and even if they continue to cool for the next three decades the AGW True Believer will continue to insist that the human impact on global warming is undeniable and major.
I wouldn’t be opening the champagne just yet.
The silence surrounding Cancun, coming from the BBC and other powerful sources, is deafening.
It was clearly a deliberate policy, formulated some time ago, to stifle debate and hide the many beasties that live and crawl under the protective shadow of beast that is CAGW from the public gaze.
If it ain’t reported then it ain’t news. The steamroller of government will roll on regardless, crushing all opposition on the way.
Your kids will still be force-fed dodgy political views packaged as Science and penalised if they don’t tick the right box.
Opinion, designed by committee, will continue to be bombarded down the throats, and into the minds, of the general public to spawn outcomes that, once, would have been regarded as outlandish, fantastical and ludicrous.
The madness will be with us for a very long time perhaps forever.
No amount of logic. No sense of decency. No appeal to authority will prevail; for that is the source of the madness that threatens our collective futures.
Keep the bottles of bubbly corked and don’t plan any celebrations until the lunatics have let the Kool-Aid work its miracles!
Japan stood at the edge of the abyss, and took a step backwards.
Good for them.
May many follow their lead.
“”””” Derek says:
December 2, 2010 at 1:01 pm
From, (as linked to earlier by Mike says: December 2, 2010 at 10:59 am )
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-30/world-shouldn-t-wait-for-u-s-resolution-on-climate-agreement-japan-says.html
……………………………..
“heat-trapping gases” – for goodness sakes, “economics” is (unintentionally) saving science….
But you just don’t get that “here” do you…
If you do “get it” (and I’m wrong), then
please explain to me HOW carbon dioxide “traps” heat.
The only “GHG” that “traps” heat (temporarily) is water vapour,
by it’s latent heat properties,
WHICH CO2 DOES NOT HAVE (at atmospheric temperatures).
Science web site of the year, in whatever year, that does not realise
CO2 CAN NOT trap heat. “””””
Well we do not have ANY perfect thermal insulators, so therefore there is nothing which can “trap heat”; it will get out eventually.
So it’s a bad choice of words. CO2 can most assuredly “absorb” heat. Just put some dry ice in a balloon and seal it; then wait for it to sublime and blow the balloon up. Then watch as th CO2 starts to warm up to room temperature; which it most assuredly will do by absorbing “heat” from the surroundings.
As for water vapor; it already contains ALL of the latent heat it will ever have; even if it is at zero deg C, so there is no way it can subsequently “trap heat” even temporarily by means of “latent heat”; that would require an additional phase change adn nothing comes after the liquid to vapor phase change.
But what CO2 and H2O and any other GHG CAN DO , is to at least temporarily capture LWIR Radiation (which is NOT “heat”) and subsequently convert that photon energy into “heat” as a result of collisions with other atmospheric molecules, most likely N2, and then O2, in that order. What comes next may be Argon; but it also could be H2O if the humidity is high.
I don’t know why people keep on coming to WUWT and insisting that the GHG effect is all some giant fraud, and doesn’t exist.
That’s a bad bet to invest your life savings into.
What is important, is what the total climate effect of GHG temporary “trapping” of LWIR radiation; which most certainly does lead to atmospheric warming. Well so what; there’s more to climate than atmospheric warming.
And H2O vapor is no different from CO2 vapor at atmospheric Temperatures and pressures. Neither one can gather up more “heat” via any “latent heat” mechanism. But for Ice or water, then latent heat can become involved.
Fremma says:
December 2, 2010 at 12:37 pm
‘I need some help here. I don’t usually have difficulty translating bureaucrat-speak but I’m struggling with Mr Arima’s statement: “Japan will not inscribe its target under the Kyoto protocol on any conditions or under any circumstances.”’
Clever post. Maybe he means he refuses to carve Japan’s target in Cancun stone. My guess is that he meant to say that he will not “subscribe to” the treaty.
Mods, my second post
(after Derek says: December 2, 2010 at 1:14 pm appears to have not appeared. ?)
Given the excellent post of RoyFOMR says: December 2, 2010 at 2:09 pm
is it possible for you to retrieve and post it,
if for no other reason than for the sake of discussion.
Thanks in advance,
Derek.
BBC News at 1000 tonight – “the current weather is unprecedented” and at the same time – we can expect to experience these cold “cluster” events as the climate changes.
So at the moment we are having an unprecedented cluster ……
So funny!
Paul Birch says:
December 2, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Sigh, Paul sadly, I think that will be the spin, lets see how things pan out. Kyoto did focus our minds to a reality. Those realities jolted us into the real world of rocketing power bills, higher water prices and higher commodity prices, it also spawned all sorts of money making schemes from wind power, solar, insulation, and energy efficient light bulbs that fail soon after fitting and the promise of much worse to come.
On the brighter side it also made many people take a good look at the Climate science to see why we should embrace this race to penury at indecent haste, investigate the wild claims and the weird agenda, look hard at the profiteers and promoters making money behind a facade of “post normal science” arrogant “don’t question, or else we will destroy your reputation, deny you access to “our” publications to restrict your ability to publish. Antics that caused fair minded scientists to say enough is enough and expose the nature of the science that promoted the wildest claims.
Kyoto took us from meek acceptance to today’s more measured look to the future.
One stepping stone towards ?
In Danish TV2 the news is on. They report that japanese industry for a longer period has pressed against the japanese commitment to the Kyoto treaty. If so, the Japanese decision may not change much during Cancun.
K.R. Frank
Peter Walsh says: December 2, 2010 at 9:29 am
Daniel M says:
December 2, 2010 at 8:40 am
What sound does the first domino make?No sound whatsoever.We are surrounded by global warming here in Ireland. We call it SNOW!
———————————————————————————
Peter Walsh. You are right there. The Global Warming meme has always been a snow job!
Douglas
All the huzzahs are premature. It’s not time to celebrate yet. From the Guardian article linked above,
The Japanese delegation are not rejecting the catechism that inspired Kyoto in the first place, that anthropogenic global warming is real and a danger to the world. They are simply saying that Kyoto was unfair because it did not include every ‘polluter’, namely the USA, India, and China. And they are explicitly saying they will sign a new accord that includes everyone.
There is good news, and that is that India and China will have no part of such an agreement, and, thanks to the November elections, neither will the US Congress. So the True Believers in AGW at Cancun will be left trying to contrive a treaty that can go nowhere, except to salve the souls of the Greens in Europe and the USA.
Now if the Republicans have the stones to shut down the EPA, we’ll be making real progress.
/Mr Lynn
So Japan the sovereign country is not willing to commit national suicide. A known fraud is really a hard thing to sell. Maybe because it has no value.
Great development. Japan saw how China overtook its economy this year as the world’s 2nd largest economy. If Japan will keep the Kyoto madness, soon India will also overtake it. And then Brazil…
George E. Smith says:
December 2, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Well we do not have ANY perfect thermal insulators, so therefore there is nothing which can “trap heat”; it will get out eventually.
So it’s a bad choice of words. (1) CO2 can most assuredly “absorb” heat. Just put some dry ice in a balloon and seal it; then wait for it to sublime and blow the balloon up. Then watch as the CO2 starts to warm up to room temperature; (3) which it most assuredly will do by absorbing “heat” from the surroundings.
and,
As for water vapor; it already contains ALL of the latent heat it will ever have; (4)
and,
But what CO2 and H2O and any other GHG CAN DO , is to at least temporarily capture LWIR Radiation (5)
and,
capture LWIR Radiation (which is NOT “heat”) and subsequently convert that photon energy into “heat” as a result of collisions with other atmospheric molecules, most likely N2, and then O2, in that order. What comes next may be Argon; but it also could be H2O if the humidity is high. (6)
and,
I don’t know why people keep on coming to WUWT and insisting that the GHG effect is all some giant fraud, and doesn’t exist. (7)
and,
What is important, is what the total climate effect of GHG temporary “trapping” of LWIR radiation; (8)
AND,
And H2O vapor is no different from CO2 vapor at atmospheric Temperatures and pressures. Neither one can gather up more “heat” via any “latent heat” mechanism. But for Ice or water, then latent heat can become involved. (9)
(1) It is NOT bad choice of words, it is simply WRONG. As I asked, and you have avoided, how does CO2 2trap” heat AT ATMOSPHERIC TEMPERATURES. It does not, and can not, there is no change of state.
(2) Dry ice has a temperature of what ?
(3) What are you going on about ?
(4) Again, what are you going on about, liquid water evaporates (look at a boiling pan of water if you must), which is an endothermic reaction (requires energy), when it later condenses the water vapour releases energy (exothermic reaction). Comonly this is known as a movement of energy from point a to point b. Inbetween points a and b the energy (of latent heat) is “trapped” temporarily. Which bit of everyday reality do you not see. ?
(5) Go on admit it (if to yourself, and not us), by capture you really mean trap….
(6) You do understand the difference between heat and energy don’t you, on this evidence you do not.
BTW – Don’t try debating tactics on me, they do not impress me, and I will not be drawn into using them, however low your “standards” are.
(7) Your not really interested in science are you. Truth and skepticism are words you have never looked up the meanings of in a dictionary, are they.
(8) If that ain’t a complete reversal of position, what is…. Your back to heat trapping gases.. LOL.
(9) Honestly, which banana boat did you just get off, ” H2O vapor is no different from CO2 vapor at atmospheric Temperatures “, your serious arn’t you. Are you familiar with the phrase laughing stock, it might help you when people smile uncontrolably in your presence.
If this is a “skeptics” website, no effing wonder “they” are winning.
Economics, you wasted your time, they ain’t worth saving,
this lot are brainless, judging by George E. Smith.
Fremma says: December 2, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I need some help here. I don’t usually have difficulty translating bureaucrat-speak but I’m struggling with Mr Arima’s statement: “Japan will not inscribe its target under the Kyoto protocol on any conditions or under any circumstances.”
Or is there some sort of monument at Cancun that is under attack by an army of diplomats with chisels?
——————————————————————————-
Fremma. I think that it is as simple as saying that Japan will not sign anything to do with the protocol – not – never – nohow!
Douglas
I don’t see any metion of this Japanese bomb-shell in the American MSM! Even over at FOX. I wonder why??
George E. Smith says:
December 2, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Quotes,
(1) Well we do not have ANY perfect thermal insulators, so therefore there is nothing which can “trap heat”; it will get out eventually.
So it’s a bad choice of words. CO2 can most assuredly “absorb” heat.
(2) Just put some dry ice in a balloon and seal it; then wait for it to sublime and blow the balloon up.
(3) Then watch as the CO2 starts to warm up to room temperature; which it most assuredly will do by absorbing “heat” from the surroundings.
(4) As for water vapor; it already contains ALL of the latent heat it will ever have;
(5) But what CO2 and H2O and any other GHG CAN DO , is to at least temporarily capture LWIR Radiation
(6) capture LWIR Radiation (which is NOT “heat”) and subsequently convert that photon energy into “heat” as a result of collisions with other atmospheric molecules, most likely N2, and then O2, in that order. What comes next may be Argon; but it also could be H2O if the humidity is high.
(7) I don’t know why people keep on coming to WUWT and insisting that the GHG effect is all some giant fraud, and doesn’t exist.
(8) What is important, is what the total climate effect of GHG temporary “trapping” of LWIR radiation;
(9) And H2O vapor is no different from CO2 vapor at atmospheric Temperatures and pressures. Neither one can gather up more “heat” via any “latent heat” mechanism. But for Ice or water, then latent heat can become involved.
Derek replies,
(1) It is NOT bad choice of words, it is simply WRONG. As I asked, and you have avoided, how does CO2 2trap” heat AT ATMOSPHERIC TEMPERATURES. It does not, and can not, there is no change of state.
(2) Dry ice has a temperature of what ?
(3) What are you going on about ?
(4) Again, what are you going on about, liquid water evaporates (look at a boiling pan of water if you must), which is an endothermic reaction (requires energy), when it later condenses the water vapour releases energy (exothermic reaction). Commonly this is known as a movement of energy from point a to point b. Inbetween points a and b the energy (of latent heat) is “trapped” temporarily. Which bit of everyday reality do you not see. ?
(5) Go on admit it (if to yourself, and not us), by capture you really mean trap….
(6) You do understand the difference between heat and energy don’t you, on this evidence you do not.
BTW – Don’t try debating tactics on me, they do not impress me, and I will not be drawn into using them, however low your “standards” are.
(7) Your not really interested in science are you. Truth and skepticism are words you have never looked up the meanings of in a dictionary, are they.
(8) If that ain’t a complete reversal of position, what is…. Your back to heat trapping gases.. LOL.
(9) Honestly, which banana boat did you just get off, ” H2O vapor is no different from CO2 vapor at atmospheric Temperatures “, your serious arn’t you. Are you familiar with the phrase laughing stock, it might help you when people laugh uncontrollably in your presence.
If this is one of the main “skeptics” website, no effing wonder “they” are winning.
Economics, you wasted your time, they ain’t worth saving,
this lot are brainless, judging by George E. Smith.
“””” Derek says:
December 2, 2010 at 2:53 pm
George E. Smith says:
December 2, 2010 at 2:12 pm “””””
Derek, I’m just going to presume that for you English is a second language and leave it at that. You obviously didn’t read what I said let alone understand any of it. So why not try reading what I said; because that is almost invariably what I mean to say.