My parents used to talk about rationing during the war with great apprehension. Clearly the nutters in and supporting Cancun are clueless as to how such a scheme would be viewed by the public. My inbox has lit up today from all around the world over this issue. Short of Climategate itself, I haven’t quite seen any other similar reaction.
Excerpts from the Telegraph: Cancun climate change summit: scientists call for rationing in developed world
Global warming is now such a serious threat to mankind that climate change experts are calling for Second World War-style rationing in rich countries to bring down carbon emissions.
…
In a series of papers published by the Royal Society, physicists and chemists from some of world’s most respected scientific institutions, including Oxford University and the Met Office, agreed that current plans to tackle global warming are not enough.
…
In one paper Professor Kevin Anderson, Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, said the only way to reduce global emissions enough, while allowing the poor nations to continue to grow, is to halt economic growth in the rich world over the next twenty years.
…
Prof Anderson admitted it “would not be easy” to persuade people to reduce their consumption of goods
He said politicians should consider a rationing system similar to the one introduced during the last “time of crisis” in the 1930s and 40s.
This could mean a limit on electricity so people are forced to turn the heating down, turn off the lights and replace old electrical goods like huge fridges with more efficient models. Food that has travelled from abroad may be limited and goods that require a lot of energy to manufacture.
“The Second World War and the concept of rationing is something we need to seriously consider if we are to address the scale of the problem we face,” he said.
Full story here: Cancun climate change summit: scientists call for rationing in developed world
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Does anyone really want to see a ration stamp like this?
For anyone that wishes to get the Royal Society’s papers referenced in the article, they are available for a limited time download here:
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1934.toc#content-block
Pressed enter too soon…
In addition to these taxes;
Alco-pop tax (Pre-mixed drinks). Fail.
Alcohol tax. Fail.
Fat food tax. (Will) Fail.
Carbon tax. (Will) Fail.
But they have raised massive revenues for Govn’t.
Good. Puerile and idiotic announcements such as energy rationing will be more easily picked up by the general population who thus far have been assuming things will stay much the same if they let the greens ‘indulge’ themselves and assuage every ones guilt. Green stealth taxes have (sadly) been remarkably effective so far, but this type of full-frontal green garbage will go down with most people about as well as a cup of cold sick.
I say the Greens should take this energy rationing suggestion mainstream as soon as possible and let the populace see how they want to ‘Greenrupt’ what is left of our economies and beggar our citizens.
I’m a frequent reader of your articles on this website and I really appreciate your scientific view on the climate issues, thanks a lot for your great and ongoing work.
On the other side the IPCC maniacs together with their allied weather institutes in England and in my country, Germany, as well as others now promote AGW-alarms even heavier as before. They make conferences all over world to shut down entire economies under the faulty argument of global warming, sea level rise and other fake doomsday scenarios. This might look strange to some serious people, but I would say say it’s worse then that, it’s very very dangerous.
I read papers from IPCC conferences in Bonn (Germany) from 2009, where an english professor spoke for more “authoritarian governance” and noone dared to speak against him, they applauded him for his wise speeech.
Now, many so called “western democracies” like the US and UK, as well as others are some kind of “sliding” directly into this direction with more and more restrictions of their constitutional rights. America is now on the edge. The intentional financial melt down of the western economies makes this political shift even worse.
And now we have about 22000 persons sitting in Cancun/Mexico, discussing how to bring this ‘wonderful new world order’ into place by producing one environmental fraud after another, allways telling the same doomsday stories to frighten the world.
You people here on “Whats Up With That” really care about the science and they argue vr honestly, using the real data and not faked models. But the well funded people in Cancun and in the IPCC aboulutely don’t care about science any more. For them it’s not about science at all, it’s about a so called “global governance”, which to me sounds nothing more than “a modern way of corporate government under the ruling of internationl banksters”. Many critical persons tend to call this directly the new way of “Fascism”.
Fore me, this possible look into the future of mankind is frightening. I was a teacher for mathematics, physics and computer science for more then 22 years on german “Gymasiums”, but I quit my job because I refused to be a part of the scientific fraud game. The german teachers are heavily forced to teach these AGW lies and to participate on projects which look like Greenpeace promotion actions. I hope that the real scientist here and all over the world wake up and take political actions, because only discussing climate science isn’t enough in these days, we have to wake up people who don’t understand what’s really going on. Too often I read cynical comments about AGW, but this is a rather passive way to act, because it’s only for feeling better personally but it does not make other people active.
For me, this is the greatest worldwide scientific fraud in the history of mankind and the UN and western politicians us it directly and shamelessly to transform our lifes into a way of “modern slavery”, and all of this under the well established “governance” of some few wordwide corporate organistazions and global banks. By the way, why is the actual military spending of the NATO states about 1.6 Trillion Dollars? Against whom do they have to fight with such a unbelievable amount of money?
Detlef Reimers
The term Police State describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population.
To my mind, AGW always looked like the start of WWIII.
Just how out of touch are these guys?
savethesharks says:
November 29, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Maybe a rise in CO2 increases dementia. As evidenced by “Professor” Anderson…who has unequivocally LOST his marbles.
No he hasn’t. He’s laughing at you as he banks his fat non-executive director’s fee from ‘Greenstone Carbon Management’. He has sold his scientific integrity for this so it must be very rewarding. He works for big green$$$$$.
Rationing? Let’s give this scheme a try — no funding for scientific research from government; all research grants to come only from private resources for the next five years; automatic renewal at the end of every five year period.
[Automatic “renewal”? Or automatic “review of all”? 8<) Robt]
I’m at loss to understand these people, can there really be so many apparently intelligent nutters on the planet?
I’m reading Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged at the moment and, as most probably know, she praises the power of the individual and castigates the incompetency of the collectivists. I can see clear comparison between the world she envisaged 60 years ago and what has come to pass. I love her use of her term “looters” and “moochers” to describe the politicians and jobsworths.
People, come on – nobody wants you to live like North Koreans.
Or at least, the Tyndall researchers didn’t explicitly state that.
We haven’t needed rationing to limit growth in the US. We’ve had Keynesian economics. We could just vote in more of the current crop of jokers and achieve the same effect as rationing.
Well that is sure to help the poor contries. No more bananas from Fiji? Now how will they get any money. This appears to be turning into Anti-Globalization more than it is about environment
An ultimate dream of environmentalists: north of 38th latitude.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xpIrZxwWvv8/TGGHwvyINYI/AAAAAAAADVQ/aGasYpaeCPE/s1600/north+korea+satellite.jpg
Portugal’s Dictator, Salazar, wanted to plunge Portugal into a bucolic, Middle Age, agrarian coma;
He was from a Southern European Country, he was a “fascist”.
These guys want WORSE, but they’re rich Anglo-Saxons, blessed Hollywood, so they are “cool”?
DirkH says:
November 30, 2010 at 6:16 am
To be completely and totally blunt: It is none of their business HOW I live. That is up to me, and the subject should NOT even be a point of discussion. For them to advocate or dictate that I live one way or another is NONE of their business!
Period!
Thanks for the link, curiousgeorge. Have added it to my modest collection of fine c&w. Nothing to do with WUWT, however. Will now read subsequent posts.
New Order?
Been there, done that:
The Estado Novo was an authoritarian regime with an integralist orientation, which differed from fascist regimes by its lack of expansionism, lack of a charismatic leader, lack of party structure, and more moderate use of state violence.[4] It incorporated, however, the principles for its military from Benito Mussolini’s system in Italy. Salazar was a Catholic traditionalist who believed in the necessity of control over the forces of economic modernisation in order to defend the religious and rural values of the country, which he perceived as being threatened. One of the pillars of the regime was the PIDE, the secret police. Many political dissidents were imprisoned at the Tarrafal prison in the African archipelago of Cape Verde, on the capital island of Santiago, or in local jails. Strict state censorship was in place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estado_Novo_%28Portugal%29
communist, fascist, capitalist… pick your bogeyman. One thing, this whole AGW crap is just sand in our eyes while they try to dismantle our democracy.
They have successfully diverted the political energies of the young generation to “saving the planet” while they destroy society.
AGW is not a left/right issue that many seem to think it is. It’s gullible youth against those of us old enough to see through this [snip].
Re: suggestions about rationing. There is a significant section of the population that regards rationing as a good thing, like the early Christian doctrine about self flagellation as being good for the soul.
We have heard a lot of that in debates about water capture and use in Australia. Despite the fact that there is not, and never will be, a shortage of water on the planet – there are plenty of people who think that using water is a moral issue, and that no matter how much there is in the dams, we should all take 3 minute showers.
The same goes for ‘carbon footprints’ , carbon miles and the like. As has been demonstrated, it is better to grow something where it grows well and transport it than to grow it in a greenhouse and sell it locally.
The most ludicrous example is the so-called greenies who want today’s organic fresh pulled carrots delivered to their homes. A more inefficient, expensive and transport intensive mechanism could hardly be devised. But hey, it is all about Tarqin and Samantha (won’t anyone think of The Children?).
I don’t think that WUWT is about politics, directly. But I hope it keeps deflating political balloons based on bogus science.
Compared to many posters, I am practically a communist. Please don’t categorise people in terms of Left or Right. It just doesn’t work these days.
Thankfully, this will never fly in the USA.
We’ll simply vote anyone who pursues this nonsense out of office.
You might find this article interesting:
(Copy and Paste Link)
http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2010/11/29/the-climate-conference-echo-chamber/
(If this doesn’t work)
Cancun
…it says in part:
McAleer says the refusal to allow him access to the Cancun Climate Change Conference is censorship.
“I sent them exactly the same documentation that was acceptable for Copenhagen last year, but it seems they did not like my coverage of Copenhagen and are now trying to silence me and the people who have questions about this process,” said McAleer.
“The message is clear—ask UN scientists and politicians difficult questions and you will be banned from any UN sponsored events. No difficult questions allowed,” he added.
@P. Solar and others
Do agree with your take. Even the intelligent here waste far too much time making anti-left (liberals are scum) comments when this is not a left/right issue. It really isn’t youth v. age either. It is the masses falling for the fake left/right boxes they have been placed in by the(ir) media gurus. Communism from the left? Fascism from the right? Both add up to Totalitarianism.
On a hopeful note, maybe it is just another ploy to self-destruct the AGW gig.
AGW Progress Report: See no evil, ……. Bucky Balls.
Follow the bouncing Bucky monkey Balls.
“*[Denmark] DK centre for CO2 fraud”
“**Cancún climate summit: Let’s look beyond carbon”
…-
*Bucky:
“DK centre for CO2 fraud”
“The Danish CO2 register at the centre of European CO2 fraud for billions.”
“Denmark is at the centre of an extensive, international CO2 quota fraud that runs into the billions, according to the conclusions of a report from Tax Minister Troels Lund Poulsen (Lib) to the Energy Policy Committee, Ekstra Bladet reports.
Environment Committee Chairwoman Ida Auken says the report is sheer admission from the Tax Ministry.
“The Danish quota register is the centre for all of Europe’s fraud – we now have it black on white from the ministry itself,” Auken tells Ekstra Bladet and urges Climate Minister Lykke Friis to help the Naitonal Auditors to clean up.
“The Climate and Energy Minister has been trying to cover up the size of the scandal that is on her table. Now the Tax Minister has revealed the issue and passed the buck on to her,” Auken says, adding that the case is so big that responsibility must be placed in the issue.
38 billion
The report says that there has been fraudulent trading in CO2 quotas across the European Union, with many of the cases pointing back to Denmark.
Investigations are being carried out in several countries, with the Danish Fraud Squad involved in investigations in Germany, Spain, Norway and Belgium. In France alone, authorities have found some 151 quota accounts in the Danish register which they suspect have been used to carry out VAT fraud in CO2 quota trading.”
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/ECE1129571/dk-centre-for-co2-fraud/
…-
**Balls:
“Cancún climate summit: Let’s look beyond carbon”
“It’s unlikely countries will sign up to binding limits on carbon dioxide unless growth can be decoupled from the use of fossil”
“Let’s get the bad news out of the way first – there isn’t going to be a legally binding global climate treaty for at least three years, even as negotiators from 193 countries gather once again for the annual UN climate change conference, this time in Cancún, Mexico.
A legally binding global treaty remains the holy grail of climate change policy. It was to help achieve such an agreement that the Copenhagen conference last December was hyped into mankind’s last chance to save the planet; and, because it failed to do so, why a sense of doom has since descended on climate activists.
But a new global treaty to succeed the first phase of the Kyoto Protocol in 2012 is not even on the agenda for the conference in Cancún. With climate and energy legislation in the US having been abandoned, and with the two largest emerging powers China and India unwilling to make binding commitments of their own, the most Cancún can achieve is to put in place some important building blocks for a new regime – on issues such as adaptation to global warming, stopping deforestation and paying for it all – which will help rebuild trust and show that the UN process is not actually dead.
But the good news is that this doesn’t matter. ”
>>> (Wait!)
>>> Guardian headline refreshed/changed to:
“Cancún climate talks: In search of the holy grail of climate change policy
Although Copenhagen fell short of delivering a legally binding global treaty, Cancún is another step towards that ultimate goal”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2010/nov/29/cancun-climate-change-copenhagen
I was there.
This is what we were allowed.
Per week.
It works, I’m still here.
Meat: approx. 6 ounces (150g)
Eggs: 1
Fats (butter, margarine and lard): 4 ounces (100g)
Cheese: 4 ounces (100g)
Bacon: 4 ounces (100g) initially only 2 ounces (50g)
Sugar: 8 ounces (200g) initially 12 ounces (300g)
Tea: 2 ounces (50g)
Sweets: 2 ounces (50g)
A lot of UBoat crews (most of them) died trying to make tighter.
30% of London was obliterated (think of 30% of your city, town, village….)
And now the silly b*st*rds are at it again.
Patrick Davis says:
November 30, 2010 at 5:04 am
Pressed enter too soon…
In addition to these taxes;
Alco-pop tax (Pre-mixed drinks). Fail.
Alcohol tax. Fail.
Fat food tax. (Will) Fail.
Carbon tax. (Will) Fail.
But they have raised massive revenues for Govn’t.
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I submit that the purpose of the taxes isn’t really to eliminate those perceived vices, but primarily to raise tax revenue. If they eliminated the vices, then the revenue would disappear. That can’t be the purpose!