Watch the "Great Debate" on California's Prop 23 suspend the AB32 global warming law

Readers may recall yesterday when I wrote about the event sponsored by Chico State University that I was “disinvited” from because I was not allowed to use visuals that I wanted to explain the science.

Well, good news, even though I won’t be allowed to speak there, the world gets to watch it live via webcast.

At left is a snapshot from the student debate in progress now, but the Main Event that I was supposed to speak at comes later, at 6:30PM Pacific Time. I encourage WUWT readers to watch.

If nothing else, WUWT readers can demonstrate their collective global impact on the number of viewers of this event. Given that the city council streaming video webserver generally handles just a few dozen to a few hundred viewers, depending on the topic, we have a very good chance of setting an all time viewership record.

Here’s the details on the agenda and the link to live video.

REGULAR CHICO CITY COUNCIL MEETING — October 28, 2010

Chico Municipal Center, Council Chamber, 421 Main Street

1.
THE CHICO GREAT DEBATE – OCTOBER 28, 2010            The Great Debate is a cooperative project between the City of Chico and California State University, Chico, to create a public space for civil discourse.  This semester’s topic is:  “AB 32: To Suspend or Not to Suspend” – The Global Warming Solutions Act
2.
Listing of the proposed events:  You can also view these sessions on Cable Channel 11.
9:30 – 10:30 a.m.        PG&E Panel
11:00 -12:00 noon        Panels on Skin Cancer and Green Energy
12:30 – 1:30 p.m.        Panels on Financial Sponsors, Oil Industry and Solar Power
2:00 – 3:00 p.m.          Debate on Proposition 23
3:30 – 4:30 p.m.          Panels on Agricultural Industry and Environmentalists
6:30 p.m.            Main Event Debates – Community Member Debate Teams
3.
ADJOURNMENT

To watch it live click this link:

http://chico-ca.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2

…and then click on “view event” right at the top.

UPDATE: Some people are concerned that WUWT viewers may crash the server, and I’ll get blamed. I don’ t think it is likely to happen. The company that runs the server for them handles much much larger cities and towns also, and they host it. So I think they can handle thousands of simultaneous connections. I actually put in the first streaming server for the city council chambers, and they replaced mine (donated) with this, and it is pretty well done.

If I thought there was any chance of crashing that streaming server I would not bother to suggest it. We may however set a viewer record for them. – Anthony

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rbateman

This should be interesting. I’m sitting here looking at snow levels of 4,000′ in October, and it’s piling up on the mountains.
What Global Warming? Not here, and certainly not anywhere in this sector of the globe.

Ray

If we don’t blow up their server, maybe we will see somebody use slides 😉 or big cartons with graphs on them.

John from CA

I’m, in for the presentations and wished I’d seen the earlier presentations.
Here are my views on Prop 23:
This isn’t about Oil vs Clean Energy, its about a poorly crafted piece of legislation that will do more harm than good and about protecting jobs until AB32 is fixed and we can afford it.
Very few voters have taken the time to read AB32 (the Global Warming Act of 2006) and to understand it was enacted before the facts were known about flawed climate science. AB32 is Not a pollution control Bill, its a passe Global Warming Bill and no one even uses the term Global Warming any more.
AB32 simply needs to strip out the Cap and Trade provision and reliance on Global Warming assumptions and its potentially a piece of leadership legislation. Sustainability, Clean Energy, and Stewardship are great goals but not at the expense of Common Sense.
AB32 needs to eliminate the Cap and Trade provisions 70% of America Opposes, eliminate the unnecessary oversight Fees, eliminate the reliance on flawed Green House Gas assumptions, correct the vague language that will introduce Environmental Red Tape that will do more damage than good, ensure AB32 doesn’t undermine The Rule of Law, and make non-governmental agencies like CARB accountable to the taxpayer for their mistakes.
If the Rule of Law is allowed to become Rule by Bureaucrats using loosely defined AB32 legislation, we are all doomed.
Vote YES on Prop 23, it makes the most sense until AB32 is fixed and we can afford it.

John from CA

2:40pm PT:
Very nervous presenter stating inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims.

Hey, I can see a flat screen television display switched on there – not showing anything but blue right now, but still … !

John S.

California emits 1.4% of the world’s greenhouse gasses? Nice rebuttal.

I thought this was supposed to be a “classic debate” in the Lincoln/Douglas style. What’s with the microphone, TV cameras, and global audience?
And people I’ve never heard of?

ShrNfr

From the wide shot of all those empty seats its seems to be a mass debate.

TomRude

OT:
The French Academy of Sciences has issued a report about their short debate; The IPCC conclusions are largely standing and “rogue” academy members are condemned by the media.
Nature echoes this Pyrrhic victory of official science:
http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/10/french_climate_farce.html
Farce indeed!

Vorlath

It’s funny. It reminds me of high school when we did projects and ate up what the teachers would sell us. We didn’t know any better and they would prop us up in front of people to regurgitate what we’ve been told with references and quotes supporting those ideas. They are clearly nervous. Why is there no one there though?

Glenn

pretty underwhelming student presentations – not very robust ‘debating’! and can someone deal with the white balance? I looks like they’re having the meeting in a freezer!

Glenn

I see the Panels on Agricultural Industry and Environmentalists are using ‘slides’ …

Adam

I don’t think this is a good idea. If we crash their server people will say that Anthony knew this would happen and it was his form of revenge, and he will look petty because of it.
REPLY: I don’ t think it is likely to happen. The company that runs the server for them handles much much larger cities and towns also, and they host it. So I think they can handle thousands of simultaneous connections. I actually put in the first streaming server for the city council chambers, and they replaced mine (donated) with this, and it is pretty well done.
If I thought there was any chance of crashing that streaming server I would not bother to suggest it. We may however set a viewer record for them. – Anthony

After November 2, who cares?

Atomic Hairdryer

would it be unsporting to let them know their mic’s are still live?

Mike Hebb

How can they cover much of anything with only 1 hr for the Prop 23 debate? Looks like some sort of dog and pony show.

John from CA

oops — “as you can see in this graph” she’s saying…

And now they’re showing a Powerpoint presentation! Hypocrites.

TinyCO2

I see graphics with tree blossom and a very small crowd.

Stephen Brown

Came in at 23:30hrs (BST), at the start of the Agricultural Industry presentation, the first comment which caught my ear was “I don’t know what that is” when the girl mentioned ‘cling-pip? nut?’ She used a slide (!!) to emphasise her initial comments. The relayed computer screen was visible in the shot I saw.
The second speaker read out her pre-prepared, read-from-the-script delivery in a robotic manner.
The third speaker made this same fact clear fin her first sentence.
I refuse to listen further. The is a completely warped set of what some would call ‘presentations’. The very delivery of the garbage being spouted is so very amateurish that it has to be pre-prepared to be given by unthinking stupes.
No FARMERS appear to be nominated to speak. On agriculture!
OMG!! The next speaker, a male, could not even read his script correctly, after claiming that it was his!
This drivel is so bad that I simply cannot continue.
Ended listening, in complete disgust, at 23:50.

John from CA

that’s inaccurate:
21 instances of 4 consecutive quarters with unemployment at or below 5.5% have occurred since 1987. 7 instances in each of three 2.5 year periods. 23 years not 30 years per the student statement.

intrepid_wanders

Wouldn’t be nice, after spending $24mil to counter “Big Texas Oil’s” $8mil, and they still lose?
I can dream…

Dr T G Watkins

Brilliant! As Max Boyce said (Welsh readers only) I was there.

RobW

Lat time I checked the UCS didn’t have any scientists on their board. Have things changed?

Mike G

I see these young people speaking and I keep seeing the image of all those kool-aid drinkers lined up in neat rows in Guyana. This is definitely a religion and these kids are in the thrall of their charismatic professors/leaders. I have thought of them as kool-aid drinkers. But, I’m starting to think the plan is to force us to take the kool-aid.

Paul in Sweden

Sorry Anthony, the California Jobs Initiative(Prop 23) should fail. The United States needs examples of Green Economics so that every state and America as a whole can learn from California’s mistakes.
You are going to have to take one for the team.
REPLY: Well in Sweden you don’t have to live with the consequences, so it is easy for you to say. As a business owner here, it will be the death of me and many others. – Anthony

Ray

Somebody in the audience asked a question on a certain “slide”. SO, clearly, the room is set for visual presentations. They lied to you Anthony.
Overall, the presentations were very low grade. High-school kids could do better. Most of them were reading cards.
If I had to grade them… F-
REPLY: No this is the prelim stuff, the main debate at 6:30 was to be without slides – Anthony

Anthony, you need to move to a place far far far away from Chico…..
VY 73 pRadio

John from CA

Thanks for the heads-up Anthony,
I tune back in at 6:30.
Hopefully the Senior Debate team and Community Members will have a better grasp of the issues.

DirkH

Paul in Sweden says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:22 pm
“Sorry Anthony, the California Jobs Initiative(Prop 23) should fail. The United States needs examples of Green Economics so that every state and America as a whole can learn from California’s mistakes.”
I thought the UK already volunteered. (Germany doesn’t count; we have enough real industry to subsidize the green jobs; at least for now.)

Joel

What, they want to suspend Prop 19?????!!! Gasp!! Oh wait, it’s 23, thank God! Don’t scare me like that!

David A. Evans

This had better be worth it LOL!
It’ll be 02:30 here in the UK. Filling in time washing clothes.
Server’s not great 233kbps. Got a download from either Oxford or Cambridge at 3 times that rate.
DaveE.

David A. Evans

DirkH says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:49 pm
OUCH,; yes we did, but only after watching Spain & Greece destroy themselves. They never asked me either. 🙁
DaveE.

Ian H

Yuck! Silverlight! Can’t you persuade them to use a free and open standard? Public discourse shouldn’t be in proprietary formats. It is a matter of principle.

PJP

Anthony, re your disinvitation. As I read it, they uninvited you based upon their unwillingness to cater to a disability.
As I understand the law, this is almost certainly a serious criminal offense. You may want to ask a lawyer to take a look at it. Also ask a civil lawyer to take a look and see what sort of damages he thinks you might be owed.

Anthony, it’s quite disingenuous to claim you were “disinvited.” When the conditions weren’t to your liking you replied in your email:
“Given the disadvantages I will face, and unless there is some sort of accommodation for me to present at least some visuals, I see no other option but to decline your invitation.
I call BS on the “disinvited” meme.
REPLY: Think whatever you like, be as upset as you wish, but you are reading it wrong. The facts are: They invited me, and made no statement of presentation conditions or restrictions in the invitation or supporting documents they sent, then when I asked about slides, they didn’t say “no” right away, they had a meeting, then they said no. The conditions of the invitation changed post facto. That’s disingenuous. What they should have done is admitted they made no restrictions and then accommodated me, especially since I offered to make it a level playing field for everyone. The room is setup for slide shows, to be broadcast on both cable TV and webcast, and all it would have required was a simple “yes” and I would have handled the rest. Yet they couldn’t bring themselves to do it. Yet today, we see other sessions using slides in the same room, so it’s certainly easy enough for them to do.
Watch it live here. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/28/watch-the-great-debate-on-californias-prop-23/
– Anthony

David A. Evans

Thanks supermod! 🙂
DaveE.

kramer

I wonder how prop 23 would do if people were aware of the push by Schwarzenegger and ARB to get tied into an international REDD scheme where we’d pay foreign countries money each year to store our excess carbon?
Connect the dots:
1)
“Underlying motivation of AB 32 is to create a national, international market”
Page 7 of the following link:
http://www.carbonoffsetproviders.org/resources/5+-+AB+32$2C+Carbon+Markets$2C+and+Carbon+Policy+$28J+Nation$29.pdf
2)
“The COPC is pleased to have this opportunity to comment on the presentation made by the California Air Resources Board (“ARB”) at its July 30, 2010 stakeholder workshop on Sector-Based Crediting & Subnational Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Degradation (“REDD”) as part of a California Cap-and-Trade Program.1”
“California’s role should be limited to ensuring that the offsets generated by the REDD projects meet the AB 32 requirement that they be real, verifiable, enforceable and permanent.”
http://www.carbonoffsetproviders.org/resources/COPC+Comments+on+7.30.10+ARB+Presentation+re+REDD+$288.20.10$29.PDF
“Notice of Public Workshop to Discuss Sector-Based Crediting and Subnational Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Degradation (REDD) as part of a California Cap-and-Trade Program.”
http://www.arb.ca.gov/cc/capandtrade/meetings/073010/notice.pdf
What is REDD?
3)
“The REDD+ legislation–short for “reducing deforestation and forest degradation”–will require industrialized nations to pay developing nations to store carbon in their forests as well as manage them according to sustainable standards. Advocates say REDD+ will greatly benefit developing nations by helping to bring them out of poverty and end forest mismanagement.”
http://www.naturalnews.com/029703_climate_change_legislation.html
“Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation (REDD) is an effort to create a financial value for the carbon stored in forests, offering incentives for developing countries to reduce emissions from forested lands and invest in low-carbon paths to sustainable development. “”
http://www.un-redd.org/AboutREDD/tabid/582/language/en-US/Default.aspx
In summary, the governator and the traitors in ARB are working to reduce our standard of living by raising the cost of oil (and the over 400 mostly everday items made with it) and then transferring part of the higher energy costs revenues to foreign nations as both welfare and funding for sustainable development. And you can bet dollars to doughnuts that the sustainable development programs will be green energy and general infrastructure (roads, ports, water, etc) that when done, will be attractive places for businesses in the US to relocate jobs to.
Kramer

Obviously I wasn’t at the deliberation that took place subsequent to your request to use slides but I speculate that it was along the lines of:
Party 1 (after receiving Watts’ first email request to use slides, realizing that that’s outside of the chosen format, and setting up a meeting with one or more others on the selection committee): One of the “pro” invitees wants to use slides.
Party 2: Well, that’s not the format we’d chosen, did you specify in the invitation that this was to be oral arguments only?
Party 1: No, and I’d really like to have this guy – he’s got a hugely popular blog, he’s well known. Video is his chosen medium, he believes he can present his case much more lucidly with slides, and would be at a disadvantage without them.
Party 2: I can understand that but we’d then be changing the rules for five other people who, perhaps, aren’t as well-versed and well-prepared for a PowerPoint presentation. I’m sorry, but we’ll need to leave the format the way it is. Hopefully, he can participate anyway.
Party 1: OK, I’ll let him know.
Now, it’s not as if Watts is a stealth representative of the status quo side. If they didn’t want him there, he wouldn’t have been invited in the first place. I realize it fits the prevailing paradigm here to claim that “once they realized how powerful Watts would be with slides and who he was, they needed an excuse to not allow him to participate” but it just ain’t so.
I’m not the slightest bit upset, why should I be emotionally invested in this? I just call BS when I see it.
REPLY: And it still doesn’t change the fact that they changed the rules post facto. If you make an invitation, and you make no specifications, then change it later, that’s not my failure, but theirs. – Anthony

Even if, for the sake of argument only, I concede your point (I don’t actually), the implication in your original post (and certainly that of your flock) is that the “negative” side of the debate wouldn’t be able to withstand the overwhelming force of your presentation were you to use slides.
This is puffery of the highest order. As I said in my previous comment, if they didn’t want you they wouldn’t have invited you. Do you (or your readers) really think they panicked that the audience would be blown away by an intellectual tour de force if you were allowed to use slides?
And, to reiterate, my BS call remains.
The art of disinformation
REPLY: And remain it shall, though worth nothing, since you don’t haven’t the courage to put your name to your challenge. – Anthony

Tom_R

>> REPLY: Well in Sweden you don’t have to live with the consequences, so it is easy for you to say. As a business owner here, it will be the death of me and many others. – Anthony <<
Can you move your business to another state? We'd love to have you down here in sunny, business-friendly Florida.

Graeme

David A. Evans says:
October 28, 2010 at 5:13 pm
DirkH says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:49 pm
OUCH,; yes we did, but only after watching Spain & Greece destroy themselves. They never asked me either. 🙁
DaveE.

Spain has really taken one for the team with 20% unemployment. The UK is trying desperately to martyr itself for the cause…

Gary D.

I guess they’re delaying hoping more people will show up for an audience.

David A. Evans

Damn. So far 3 females, full of sound & fury, signifying NOTHING!
DaveE.

RACookPE1978

[Ah, but regardless of sex, what were their arguments and where was their logic? Robt]

observa

The shorter organisers-
Al Gore has given us all quite enough audio-visuals to date thank you very much Anthony. Well apart from the need to fire up the appropriate watchers/listeners to the debate beforehand of course.
No audio-visuals in an argument about science and economics? Makes you wonder why they chose to televise it rather than insist all interested parties attend in person, not to mention looking forward to the next IPCC report sans graphics. Sheesh!

Henry chance

The green economy and the movement relies on emotional arguments. They admit the facts don’t support it.

Vorlath

They said this was a student debate. Are there any non-students going to speak?

observa

Perhaps some Al Jolson makeup and a change of name to Antoinette might have got under their guard?

Robert of Texas

I keep wondering if the people supporting AB32 aren’t the smart ones… Run all business out of California, go bankrupt, get a Federal bailout, live off of other’s taxes… I mean, this could work.
In Texas, we like bringing in the businesses California scares off. Keep them coming! 🙂

David L. Hagen

Tips to debaters:
Memorize your speech. Heads up and speak to the audience. Banish “Um”.