Tamino (Grant Foster) writes:
I have a question for Anthony Watts:
We have over 30 years of satellite data for arctic sea ice. Why do you consistently display the only data source I know of that covers less than 6 years?
Maybe some of you would enjoy visiting WUWT to put the question directly to Anthony. Think he’ll answer? Think he’ll even allow the question?
Why sure I would. Here’s my response:
Mr. Foster, perhaps you’ve missed my very successful Arctic Sea Ice Page?
It was first published on July 17th, 2010: Get your ice here! New WUWT Sea Ice Machine
It’s got all of the sea ice graphs and metrics, far more than anything on “Open Mind”. And yes it covers those organizations using 30 year data sets, including NSIDC, and UUIC. Both are prominently featured.
Have a look: http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/
And it’s done pretty well traffic-wise too. Apparently a lot of people know about it. It’s easy to find, linked on the right side bar where is says “Sea Ice” with the graph. It also is available from the pulldown menu above under “Reference pages”. It is also routinely linked in my weekly Sea Ice News series.
MY questions to you sir, and I’m sure other WUWT commenters will have questions for you as well, is: Why do you think I “consistently display the only data source I know of that covers less than 6 years” when I in fact consistently display them all?
Why do you not cover all of the sea ice products on your own web site?
Why would you not want to cheer (he objects to this post Go Ice Go!) the refreezing of Arctic Sea Ice?
Why did you ignore this first sentence statement in my post? Cherry picking quotes maybe?
While not hugely significant by itself, it is interesting to note that the DMI 30% Arctic extent has reached its highest number for this date, exceeding 2006.
If global warming is so dire, you’d think he’d cheer a bit of good news, even if not hugely significant by itself. I guess not. To borrow a phrase from WUWT commenter John Whitman, I suppose that “Cheerleading for ice leaves him cold”.
Oh one last thing about an accusation from Mr. Foster:
Watts also shows the data from JAXA:
…
Now there’s more data — there’s a little more than 8 years.
This time, however, Watts omits the close-up. Why?
Hmmm. Mr. Foster, you seem to have missed the basic feature of graphics, simply go here:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/12/go-ice-go/
And then click on the JAXA graph, and PRESTO! You’ll get the large size. You see, DMI doesn’t provide a larger size, so that’s why I had to magnify it manually. JAXA provides a larger size, also available via their web page here: http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm So, no magnified extra graphic was needed. Most people know to click through when they see the little gloved finger pointer over a graphic. Or, maybe you just missed the “click to enlarge” note below it?
I’m happy to clear all those things up for you. Have a splendid weekend sir.
UPDATE: Well now, I’m a liar and I avoid data pre-2002. Heh.
How then will Mr. Foster explain that I have many many posts using NSIDC data and graphs, that goes back 30 years, many posts with UUIC (Cryosphere today) data and graphs that goes back 30 years, plus I have guest posts from Dr. Walt Meir of NSIDC, who uses even longer periods of data, and whom I don’t always agree with but invite to guest post anyway? Show the “avoidance” of pre-2002 data Mr. Foster. – Anthony
UPDATE2: My goodness, “pants on fire“? What is this, grade school? While Mr. Foster accuses me of not answering the question (while shifting his position) I’ll point out that he didn’t answer any of the questions I posed to him.
Here’s another for him: why do you avoid the discussion of Antarctic Sea ice? Either his search engine is hosed, or he’s avoiding an entire continent.
Golf Charley says: October 15, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Grant Foster, please feel free to add your own comments here. . .
. . . where they might actually get seen.
“”” TomRude says:
October 15, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Tamino= Grant Foster
Eli= Josh Halpern
Deepclimate= ? “””
“Tamino= Grant Foster” And here I thought Tamino was Pamina’s timid boyfriend .
I don’t suppose anybody knows who “Dano” is do they ? I mean apart from just another person who’s afraid to stand behind his own opinions.
What can be more miserable than to be ashamed of one’s own name.
I posted this at Tamino. Will it get through?
Anthony replied to your question.
What data source is he missing? He shows JAXA, NANSEN, University of Bremen, NSIDC, Canadian Ice Service, Univeristy of Ilinois, NOAA ESRL temps and he covers both hemispheres.
I can’t wait to see if this comment is moderated out by Tamino, so I am cross posting it here:
It is hard to be impressed with you claiming that 30 years Arctic ice records is better than 5 years – for a planet that is over 4.5 billion years old, neither 5 nor 30 years are significant lengths of time for evaluating natural variability.
Tamino (Grant Foster), also writes:
“I like daily data myself, because it has more information than monthly averages. But I’m fully aware that the extra information is almost all about the day-to-day noise, almost nothing about the trend. So I’m content to use monthly averages to investigate what the physical signal is.”
=====================
Yet, his bitch is that Anthony is not “releasing” the full satellite data.
Damn this is fun.
Mr. Tamino is the only member of the church in which I have deep respect and admiration.
I got the impression that he is honest and sincere.
I watch a despair in their questions.
I’m hoping to read the letter of repentance for the wrong services.
On snow amazonia,
Here’s the cryo ice data, all 30 years of it on the same graph, with annual superpostion, like jaxa and dmi. also got melt\freeze rate.
Bit messy
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/meemoe_uk/cryoice2010oct.gif
2010 is white
I just posted this on the other site… Awaiting moderation with baited breath..
How DID the HMS Investigator get to where it rests now in 1853? To a complete layman, all those graphs look fairly normal… I could claim the sky is falling in Australia because of all the rain we’ve had in the past month, but I’d much prefer to trust that our planet knows what it’s doing, and it doesn’t seem to be bothered much with the models and projections of desperate grant seeking (pseudo)scientific bodies and individuals.
I totally agree that humans have done a lot of damage to the planet, and it needs to be curtailed and cleaned up. What bugs me is the attempt at mass brainwashing of the general public to achieve the cleanup. With the attendant massive profits to the high priests (string pullers, elite,) generated by this new cult.
Why do you continue to believe the tripe fed to us? I am still waiting for the ONE piece of empirical evidence that 1. The world is warming at an unprecedented rate, and 2. That it is being caused by carbon dioxide runaway levels.. (That’s carbon DIOXIDE, not carbon.. Changing language seems to be stock in trade for you people.)
I dare you to post this, with just ONE piece of empirical evidence of your theory. Our planet and its systems will continue to do what it does, despite what the models say, because it doesn’t give a stuff about fortune telling.
I dare you.
Johnny in Oz. (A normal layman getting sick of the lies and expense.)
PS Mann’s hockey stick is an insult to anybody with half a brain, please don’t trot that out.
“pwnd”?
Had to look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwn
It should be pointed out that Tamino has deleted many, many threads from his website. I wonder why.
As per Tamino
to predict that next year’s September average from NSIDC, and next year’s JAXA minimum, will be 4.63 +/- 0.9 million km^2. After all, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior: the trend continues.
Hopefully he has more success with ice predictions than stock picking…
[snip – no valid email address, see policy page]
depending what regression you run on the trend you can actually get it trending upwards quite a bit at the moment. I have the excel file with all the actual stats to prove it
Answer to Tamino:
So you don’t think such a question would be allowed here?
Projection, Brother T?
How little you understand us.
We allow ALL such questions here. We snip only posts that are directly insulting, totally over the top, or otherwise are in direct violation of policy. And we even allow a lot of latitude on insult toward host or moderator if the poster has the guts to post his/her actual name.
Skeptic sites, on the whole, are incredibly more open and tolerant of opposing views than pro-AGW sites. The old-fashioned name for such an attitude is “Liberalism”. Get some.
Couldn’t sleep hence not on laptop
Am I still not moderated yet at Grant Fosters? Beer must be good Grant.
May be HMS Investigator was dropped by alien spaceships, from sufficient height to crash through the ice and land in its present position, only to be discovered this year, when the ice had receded to its third worse state.
Those crew may have died in vain, possibly eaten by those wretched white bears, but let us use their sacrifice to some good purpose in modern time. How did they get there? Grant Foster is the expert, he must know, given that past performance is a good indicator of future performance.
Michael Larkin says:
October 15, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Thanks for that. I always had it in my head that it was l33t-speak for pooned as in harpooned.
Golf Charley says:
October 15, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Still awaiting moderation at Grant Fosters
REPLY: It’s 7:30 PM in Maine on a Friday night, he probably went out to have a beer to celebrate. – Anthony
Well, if you are having a beer, Tamino, I hope for the planet’s sake, and for our children’s children, that is is a non-carbonated beer.
Tamino was just pwned, as the saying goes. But being a typical alarmist shill, he is a hypocrite. It is perfectly acceptable for him and those who agree with him to censor, but if anyone opposes his thinking dares to censor, they act like it is the crime of the century.
This reminds me of a campaign done by a democrat running against the incumbent republican. She states that Washington is broken and we need to throw out the incumbents, and yet the democrats are the reason why people say Washington is broken. This reminds me of it because these people not step back and say “Does this make sense?” Tamino’s argument is illogical and inconsistent with common sense.
uber pwnage 😉 very 1337
Anthony headed this post “my answer to Tamino’s question”
As someone with an interest in maritime history (HMS Investigator 1853 may by now have been deleted from Wikipedia by a William M Connelly sock puppet) how did people get through the North West Passage before the era of global warming?
Tamino (Grant Foster) keeps making references to past behaviour being a good indicator of future behaviour. So if our ancestors could get through the NWP in sailboats, why do we need engined ice breakers to do it.
The Hockey Team have tried to beat the hell out of the Medieval Warm Period, but they have forgotten about the North West Passage. HMS Investigator failed during the Little Ice Age, but Amundsen succeeded.
Who mapped the NWP? Why did Victorian England seek it? Because they knew it was there. Who mapped it? Presumably someone prior to the Little Ice Age?
So Victorians fell for the Tamino line that what was possible to access in the past was a good indicator of what could be passaged in the future. Now it is almost possible to conduct a north west passage in a season ( with an ice breaker to assist) so Tamino is right (ish)
Can Tamino answer the golfcharley question?
Oh, Snap!
Anyone care to ask him how his conversation with VS is going?
Just checked the Sea Ice page, it’s still there. Hard to miss. I am now concerned for Mr. Tamino’s eyesight. Perhaps the cool autumn temperatures are fogging up his computer screen.
Granr Foster must still be down the …….. or I have been been flambeed
If Victorian England could not get through the North West Passage, but they knew it was there, could this be because, before the Little Ice Age, there was a warmer period of time, a sort of, warmer period of time, how could we refer to it, a sort of warmish period in the medievalish time period
No obviously not, the Mann Hockey Stick overules all common sense
The search for the North West Passage has not yet been attacked in the same way that the Medieval Warm Period has
Long live the MWP, and its supporting literature to be found in the search for the North West Passage, not yet spotted by AGWarmists.
“REPLY: “I believe Anthony would welcome your views.” You betcha, I’ll even give him a guest post slot. All he has to do is ask. – Anthony”
That’ll be the day. He’ll be left bleeding after being riddled with scientific bullets.