From the “CO2 is the most deadly omnipotent force in the Universe department”, comes this tragic story of poor Nemo the clownfish, so disoriented by CO2 that he can’t choose the right path to swim. Rebuttal(s) follow in subsequent posts, but first here is the story on the research from James Cook University. Original press release here, ABC news story below. Look for a Disney/Pixar sequel soon, sure to frighten the children. – Anthony
Rising CO2 may lead Nemo to danger
By Katherine Nightingale for ABC Science Online
Global warming could have an unexpected effect on the clownfish star of Finding Nemo and his kind, by making them indulge in risky behaviour, say researchers.
Previous research indicates that as carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere climb the surface water of the oceans could become acidic.
Scientists have already shown that this acidification interferes with fish larvae’s sense of smell and ability to find a suitable home.
Now research led by marine researcher Professor Philip Munday of James Cook University (JCU) has found it could also make fish less aware of – and even attracted to – predators.
They publish their research this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal.
As part of the study, the researchers put clownfish and damselfish larvae into seawater equivalent to that which would be found if the atmosphere contained 700 ppm and 850 ppm of CO2 – levels that could be reached by the end of the century.
They found that after four days, half of the larvae in the 700 ppm group were less able to detect the smell of a predator, while all the larvae in 850 ppm group were actually attracted to the predator scent.
Damselfish larvae that were then released onto a reef were more active and behaved more boldly than normal, spending less time near shelter and more time near predators. They were also five to nine times more likely to die than normal fish born in 390 ppm conditions.
Profound implications
The results suggest this could have a huge impact on ocean biodiversity.
“Being attracted to the smell of a predator isn’t likely to be a very good thing,” Mr Munday said.
Professor David Booth, a marine ecologist at the University of Technology Sydney who was not involved in the study, says the behavioural choices made by young fish are thought to strongly affect populations.
“This finding of negative effects on such choices could have profound implications for the dynamics of fish populations,” he said.
The researchers are now trying to pin down why acidification causes the fish to behave more boldly, as well as looking at the wider effects on population balance in reef ecosystems.
Mr Munday says, for example, different species could have different tolerances, and acidification could make predators more or less inclined to eat.
Professor Geoffrey Jones, also of JCU and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies, said the research took the level of concern about the effects of climate change on coral reef fish “to a whole new level”.
“Without drastic action to cut emissions, all we can do is hope that fish will be able to adapt,” Mr Jones said.
“However, given that the rate of CO2 increase is unprecedented, there are no grounds for optimism.”
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Gosh, look at this, CO2 (confirmed by sampling and analysis) bubbling right out of the sea floor next to healthy reef corals. More on this later.
what a load of B S I have had tropical fish for 30 years acid level on the higher side has no ill affects at lease in my tank . I am going to ask for a grant
“mandas says:
July 8, 2010 at 12:24 am
Wow – did any of you people actually read the paper before commenting?…..”
Go on; it’s my turn to feed the troll.
You’re missing the point – we would like to discuss the science, but you may have noticed that the ‘scientists’ get their press statement out first so scientific debate is irrelevant. They have got their message out and that’s that. If someone does find a fault with their work [and that is easy] then do you really think there will be a big press release correcting it? It’s not about the science it’s about the grants and publicity.
cheers David
A little O/T but the CO2 problem gets worse.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1292778/Belgium-considers-proposals-dissolve-bodies-flush-sewage-systems.html
According to today’s Daily Mail the cremation of one corpse releases 573lbs of carbon dioxide. Any market gardeners on here might want to go and talk to their local crematorium.
“dwright says:
July 8, 2010 at 1:56 am
I wonder what kind of acid these fish were being fed (or the researchers for that matter).” One for me, one for you…..”
Reminded me of this character from a UK comedy sketch series!
cheers David
“Now research led by marine researcher Professor Philip Munday of James Cook University (JCU) has found it could also make fish less aware of – and even attracted to – predators.”
I know how the fish feel; I’ve been attracted to predators for years; fortunately I married one of them; perhaps that’ll work for Nemo.
Some more research is needed yet. I am not advised as to how the predator, also presumably affected in some way by the presence of this nasty toxin, will respond to the advances of Nemo. Mass hybridization? There is a lot of grant mileage in this one yet.
CO2 is affecting the brains of these researchers, making them behave more boldly than normal and exhibiting attraction to politicians, journalists and government money. Be careful – politicians are elected by the population, who are turning against these protection racketeers disguised as scientists, so elected politicians might sometime soon start predating on these spivs and con-artists.
Do you really think these guys believe the crap that continues to spew from their keyborads?
Really…?
“Global warming could have an unexpected effect on the clownfish ……
Previous research indicates that as carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere climb the surface water of the oceans could become acidic.”
I’ll just end here!
“could”, might, may, …….. What crap!
The oceans can NEVER become acidic no matter how much due to co2 output. Would not the ‘melting’ ice caps and glaciers dillute the oceans as well?
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2006…/2006GL026305.shtml
“This paper’s results concerning average seawater salinity and acidity show that, on a global scale and over the time scales considered (hundreds of years), there would not be accentuated changes in either seawater salinity or acidity from the observed or hypothesized rises in atmospheric CO2 concentrations. ”
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/issues/global/acid.htm
See also:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;320/5874/336
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=7545&tid=282&cid=63809&ct=162
http://www.co2science.org//articles/V12/N5/EDIT.php
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V12/N22/EDIT.php
thegoodlocust said: “Did the clownfish live through geological ages with much higher CO2 levels?”
A brief search of the relevant literature reveals:
1) Clownfish are members of the family Pomacentridae
2)
3)
QID ( Quod Idiota Demonstrandum)
Per wiki: Latin idiota is “ordinary person, layman”
From the Catlin Survey – FAQs
“Why is it called Ocean Acidification? The ocean is alkaline and model predictions suggest it will never become acidic. ”
“Acidification refers to the process of the lowering of the ocean’s pH on the pH scale. If the ocean’s pH falls it is referred to as acidification regardless of whether the water remains alkaline i.e. above pH 7. ”
http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/faq.aspx
Need I say more!!!
Speaking of clownfish, this work was published in June 2009:
Effects of ocean acidification on the early life history of a tropical marine fish
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1671/3275.abstract
Munday et al. found that when they reared orange clownfish eggs and larvae in sea water with high CO2 concentrations (current, 550, 750 and 1030 ppm) they found “no detectable effect on embryonic duration, egg survival and size at hatching. In contrast, CO2 acidification tended to increase the growth rate of larvae.” Large size is usually considered to be advantageous for larvae and newly settled juveniles.
As for adult fish, the researchers write that “most shallow-water fish tested to date appear to compensate fully their acid-base balance within several days”
Reference the peppered moth experiment that Graeme W refers to, my recollection is that this study was debunked because the author was found to have stuck the moths to the trees…but I may be wrong
What does “seawater equivalent to that which would be found if the atmosphere contained 700 ppm and 850 ppm of CO2” mean? In some of the calcifying “experiments” the plankton were tested in sea water whose pH was raised by hydrochloric acid, not CO2, so that the HCO ion concentration did not change.
There are 2 real problems with this experiment. The first is, of course, that it has been performed by mother nature long ago, and falsified – little Nemo is still here despite 1,000 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere in the past.
The second is that it is not possible for atmospheric CO2 to reach 700pm to 850 ppm if all the known fossil fuel was burned this century because the sea is too highly buffered by Ca and living creatures.
Correct me if I’m wrong…But arn’t clownfish the fishy equivilants of serial killers, luring other fish back to their home where they can be killed quietly and then slowly decapitated to make a meal for the clownfishs extended family?
I just assumed Finding Nemo was part of hollywoods usual habit of giving sea-monsters a cute’n’cuddly PR makeover (cf the little mermaid)
To which point..I’ll happily say “More CO2 please”
On a (slightly) more serious note “being attracted to a predator isn’t likely to be a good thing” – It is from the predators point of view – why are we taking sides here?
and of course
“Center for Excellence for Coral Reef studies” – I just don’t know what to say about how much wrongness I think is in that name for any serious research.
If it really is true that “Crocodiles dive less in warmer waters” and that this is a problem for the poor dears (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/07/07/2945955.htm), then why don’t they solve it by moving to cooler waters? Could it be that they don’t need to dive as much as the daft clownfishes just swim up to their jaws and get eaten up without any serious effort on the part of the crocodiles?
Perhaps this is what the warmists object to – extra CO2 encourages laziness among top predators. If so, are the objections to extra CO2 moral rather than scientific?
Hell! I have been fighting the ****8888 dynamite fishing lunatics off Cyprus for years……! I need to re-evaluate! Its not explosives its……. Lysergic acid diethylamide or have I got the wrong type of acid? I would go further but Anthony would surely snip and fairly so!
Then again, no discernible sign of a sea level rise in Cyprus so………… My boat still is moored at the same point that it was in 1963……..Its been a long long day so I must go and check my understanding of Ph levels AGAIN! Could someone remind me of the % figure for the current man-made CO2 levels and the Ph of the oceans ………and I do understand it varies for different depths and locations.
So much inputs to the models huh!
mandas says:
July 8, 2010 at 12:24 am
Mandas or is it Madass?
Read the posts so far along with references then rebutt all our arguments, otherwise you don’t have a leg to stand on. What we have here is pure speculation. No wonder so many, including myself, were initially taken in by AGW. Now I’m much more sceptical, something you should try more often.
Sorry, but how can a someone calling themselves a scientist come up with this drivel!
“Previous research indicates that as carbon dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere climb the surface water of the oceans could become acidic.”
Always look for the weasel words when people try to pass speculation as fact. It’s a sure sign of cargo cult science.
Its either face/palm or head in the hands crying with dismay at such absolute, sorry best stop i can feel a rant coming on about how come i never get jobs where talking absolute crappola pays the bills.
If it cools, man will be blamed. It’ll be the CO2. Huh, you say? I’ve got proof in the ice cores. Temperature went up, then CO2 went up, then temperature went down. See the CO2 rise before the temperature drop? Case closed. OK, I’m glad we’ve got that bit of the science settled.
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This just in folks :
“Rising CO2 may cause you to stub you’re toe, holler blasphemous words, and result in grandma hitting you over the head with a rolling pin.”
News at 11.
Monterey Bay pH measurements show that seawater is less acidic now than when they started taking measurements in 1996
http://sanctuarymonitoring.org/regional_docs/monitoring_projects/100240_167.pdf
My BS meter just exploded – again!
This is tantamount to child abuse, no? I mean, we already have “stressed out” kids in the UK because of the “scare campaigns” spat out across the MSM, the UK and most westernised countries! Well, history proves that, if you target the young and easily influenced, you win the battle, for a while. I need not make any references to past events.