Cryo-sat launch successful

Successful launch for ESA’s CryoSat-2 ice satellite


From the European Space Agency:

8 April 2010
ESA PR 07-2010. Europe’s first mission dedicated to studying the Earth’s ice was launched today from Kazakhstan. From its polar orbit, CryoSat-2 will send back data leading to new insights into how ice is responding to climate change and the role it plays in our ‘Earth system’.

The CryoSat-2 satellite was launched at 15:57 CEST (13:57 UTC) on a Dnepr rocket provided by the International Space Company Kosmotras from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. The signal confirming that it had separated from the launcher came 17 minutes later from the Malindi ground station in Kenya.

CryoSat-2 replaces the original CryoSat satellite that was lost in 2005 owing to a launch failure. The mission objectives, however, remain the same: to measure changes in the thickness of the vast ice sheets that overlie Antarctica and Greenland, as well as variations in the thickness of the relatively thin ice floating in the polar oceans.

Cryostat2  successfull launch
Successful launch for ESA’s CryoSat-2 ice mission

“We know from our radar satellites that sea ice extent is diminishing, but there is still an urgent need to understand how the volume of ice is changing,” said Volker Liebig, ESA’s Director of Earth Observation Programmes. “To make these calculations, scientists also need information on ice thickness, which is exactly what our new CryoSat satellite will provide. We are now very much looking forward to receiving the first data from the mission.”

The launch of CryoSat-2 marks a significant achievement for ESA’s Earth observation programme and brings to three the number of its Earth Explorer satellites placed in orbit, all having been launched within a little over 12 months. CryoSat-2 follows on from the Gravity field and steady-state Ocean Circulation Explorer (GOCE) mission, launched in March 2009, and the Soil Moisture and Ocean Salinity (SMOS) mission, launched last November.

CryoSat  measuring the freeboard of floating sea ice.
CryoSat measuring sea ice

Earth Explorers are launched in direct response to issues identified by the scientific community and aim to improve our understanding of how the Earth system works and the effect that human activity is having on natural processes.

In response to this need, CryoSat-2 is carrying the first radar altimeter of its kind to overcome the difficulties of measuring icy surfaces. Its primary payload, the sophisticated SAR/Interferometric Radar Altimeter (SIRAL), was developed by Thales Alenia Space to measure the thickness of ice floating in the oceans and monitor changes in the ice sheets on land, particularly around the edges where icebergs are calved.

The CryoSat-2 satellite was built by a consortium led by EADS Astrium. The satellite is in a polar orbit, reaching latitudes of 88°. This is closer to the poles than earlier Earth observation satellites, resulting in an additional area of about 4.6 million sq km being covered. This extra coverage amounts to an area larger than all 27 European Union member states put together. The combination of the technology onboard and a polar orbit will provide evidence to further our understanding of the relationship between ice and climate.

Now that CryoSat-2 is safely in orbit, the Mission Control Team at ESA’s European Space Operations Centre in Darmstadt, Germany is busy with the critical ‘Launch and Early Operations Phase’.

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62 thoughts on “Cryo-sat launch successful

  1. This will save the wandering troubadorss from taking such great risks with their lives. After this equipment collects data for a few hundred years, we can maybe have a good sample size.

  2. Their mission statement defines a pre-determined agenda and assumptions.

    The mission objectives, however, remain the same: to measure changes in the thickness of the vast ice sheets that overlie Antarctica and Greenland

    Perhaps the ice sheets are not changing significantly? Would that mean failure of the mission?

  3. Yay, Euros!

    Now, we just need to wait about 10 years and we might have enough data to say something sorta useful. . . . tho that is rather hasty for these things.

  4. Cyro Sat- 2 will measure what it measures. I predict the ice will always be changing, that’s what ice does!

    How the measurements are interpreted by human beings who want to prove one thing or another is however totally unpredictable.

  5. I’d be curious to know exactly how it measures the thickness of the ice. Surely if it is done with radar, enormous power would be required to penetrate the depth of ice to be found

  6. Hope it does not carry a convenient “tricky chip” on board, so to adjust data to settled IPCC dogmas before sending it back to the earth. ☺

  7. “The combination of the technology onboard and a polar orbit will provide evidence”

    And here’s me thinking it was going to collect data.

    The data, what will it be compared to? I assume there is no similar data availabe to compare it to?

  8. @ Steve Goddard:

    “Perhaps the ice sheets are not changing significantly? Would that mean failure of the mission?”

    No, it would not. One of the most famous scientific experiments in history, the Michelson–Morley experiment, produced an unexpected null result which subsequently helped Einstein’s special theory of relativity to gain acceptance.

    Irrespective of whether the results of the CryoSat-2 observations support or oppose the idea that the ice sheets will vanish every fair minded person should hope that the instruments are properly calibrated (so that the results can be relied on) and that the results will be accepted regardless of whose theories they support.

    Roy

  9. I am always amazed how fast the native English speaker picks up the news and make their analyzes.
    Here in Europe we realize this is just to support Russian rocket technology.

  10. I’ll wager one of the first results to be released will be “the ice is thinner than we thought.” How thick/thin did we think it was/is and more importantly, relative to what/when? I foresee a spin doctors PR dream in the making. If this new measurement has to have any meaningful bearing the “normal” must be established with absolute certainty.

  11. Royinsouthwest (12:27:30) :

    NCDC is headquartered at ORNL’s “Carbon Dioxide Information and Analysis Center”
    http://cdiac.ornl.gov/

    I’m always leery of data collection that appears to be tied to a particular belief system.

  12. Cutting through the adspeak and product promotion just what does this satellite do better than the existing satellites do now?
    We know how thick the sea ice is and we already know sea ice extent accurately enough, we have detailed images and can examine multi year ice levels from the centre to the very edges of the ice pack and we also have satellites measuring the Greenland/Antarctic ice sheets already.
    Is this satellite realy needed at all or in fact is the real agenda to provide work and funding for ‘on board’ agencies?

  13. Measuring changes in the thickness of the ice will still be very tricky. CryoSat can measure the altitude of the ice (both sea ice and glacial ice) with centimeter precision and with a resolution of about 250 meters. The thickness is another matter. Where there are reasonably large ledes the sea-level can be measured directly and the freeboard and thereby thickness of the ice can be calculated with good precision. In areas without leads the sea-level must be estimated, which introduces a great deal of uncertainty, there being no tide-gauges for “ground truth” in the ice-covered parts of the ocean.
    Measuring changes in thickness of glacier ice is even more uncertain, since changes in the altitude of the ground under the ice can only be measured in a few places at the edge of the ice, and must be modelled everywhere else, with a lot of uncertainty. For example some models say that the ground under the Greenland icecap is sinking, while others claim that it is rising. As a matter of fact it is probably doing both in different places. And, yes, the change is significant. In parts of Scandinavia the ground is still rising almost a centimeter a year, as an after-effect of the last glaciation 10,000 years ago.

  14. I really think this satellite becomes a big success but the press publications and news broadcasts were very biased, like this:

    “The satellite is supposed to observe the melting ice cap. This is especially important for the Dutch so they will know if the sea levels are going to rise 30 cm or three meters”.

    This is in short is the hog wash public media (paid by the tax payer) are airing.

    Did anyone tell the Dutch they now live in the former DDR?

  15. Cassandra King (13:12:01) :

    I have been looking into this lately, but I admit I’m not thorough. But it seems that we have no real idea about ice thickness since ICESat went off.

  16. In an improvement, this new satellite also carries a flippy floppy ice detector instrument.

  17. “The combination of the technology onboard and a polar orbit will provide evidence to further our understanding of the relationship between ice and climate.”

    Yes, too bad they used “evidence” rather than “data” . It sorta gives the objective away before the poor old probe gets into orbit.

  18. @Cassandra King (13:12:01) :

    We do? From where? The only measurements on thickness I’m aware of are at best described as “occasional”.

    This satellite will give you daily measurements that will allow us to finally have a daily approximation of “volume” instead of just “extent” and “area”, and will revolutionize the discussions. Eventually. If it stays up long enough and all the electronics work as designed.

    Daily volume calculations should also make those chokepoints in June and December on the daily “extent” charts loosen up considerably.

  19. KPO (13:10:50) :

    I’ll wager one of the first results to be released will be “the ice is thinner than we thought.”

    Probably so.

    The only solution I can see is to start a new data base beginning with the very first measurement. No splicing, no “adjustments”, no altering of the data — which must be publicly archived on-line and in real time. This is taxpayer funded weather information, not nuclear defense secrets.

    Enough scientists, technicians and engineers, including the rotating through of outside scientists, must be working together on site in such a way that fudging the data or instruments would be extremely difficult.

    Calibrations must be traceable to physical standards, and a thorough record of all testing must be dual-signed by those responsible and kept in hard copy.

    If everything done is not completely transparent and replicable, then this new satellite venture will be subject to the same pressures that enticed the corrupt CRU, Penn State and East Anglia scientists to make it up as they went along, with no chain of custody and with the raw data being “lost.”

    This is the only opportunity that the ESA will have to show they are committed to honest science. Let’s hope they don’t squander it for the money, status and unaccountability that has so thoroughly corrupted government climate science.

  20. “…leading to new insights into how ice is responding to climate change and the role it plays in our ‘Earth system’.”

    “We know from our radar satellites that sea ice extent is diminishing…”

    “Earth Explorers are launched in direct response to issues identified by the scientific community and aim to improve our understanding of how the Earth system works and the effect that human activity is having on natural processes.”

    What a pathetic waste of money. They already have their conclusions. Glaciers and sea ice never vary without evil human causes. These whack jobs are a pox on society.

  21. I couldn’t resist.

    Kazakhstan greatest country in the world.
    All other countries are run by little girls.
    Kazakhstan number one exporter of potassium.
    Other countries have inferior potassium.

  22. We won’t have any 30-year measurements from it :-) as it seems to be scheduled to work for 5 years or so.

    As I mentioned in another post comments, we had better keep in mind that the EU is very keen in promoting carbon business.

  23. World Bank loan for a new coal-fired power station in South Africa. APPROVED. 4 billion dollars. Of course it is far south and will not create CO2 to melt the North Pole.
    Joe Romm and James hansen and the devoted greenie weenies will blow a gasket.

  24. I just hope the instruments and software were all calibrated using the same unit of measure.

  25. Steve Goddard (12:00:39) :

    “Their mission statement defines a pre-determined agenda and assumptions.”

    WOOT, that exactly what I thought to myself as I read that paragraph!

  26. From the “ESA’s Ice Mission” brochure (BR-199):

    “There is now little doubt that the temperature on Earth is rising
    due to increased concentrations of greenhouse gases in the
    atmosphere. During the course of the last century, the average
    global surface temperature rose by about 0.6°C and 10 of the
    warmest years on record have occurred since 1997. Scientists
    are predicting that average global temperatures will rise by 4°C
    by the end of the century.”

    Will the data (evidence?) from this satellite suffer from confirmation bias of the AGW position? Probably.

  27. ” ShrNfr (13:34:57) :

    In an improvement, this new satellite also carries a flippy floppy ice detector instrument.”

    It also carries a very sensitive artificial nose to smell the ice and see if it is “rotten”.

  28. How’s it possible to measure the ice thickness, most of the ice is actually under sea level.

  29. Hi Anthony,

    This message is off topic, but i dont know how else i am able to contact u. I wanted to bring this to your attention :

    http://www.oneplanetonelife.com/thecoming.pdf

    A 97 page pdf talking about the “Fluff””or giant magnetic ribbon aka interstellar cloud discovered by NASA around October 15th 2009 in our close surroundings.

    This could have a great impact on our daily live combined with the solar maximum uphand. Total electronic grid failure is something wich must be considered.

    I am reading it right now and passed page 12 just now and wanted to share this with people who know more about this phenomena like you and people reading your articles. I will continue reading after i post this message.

    I am following this subject on GLP (godlikeproductions) for a while now and someone took the effort for us all to sum up all the facts and took a look at it himself.

    If there is another way to contact u, please tell me so, i dont seem to find a contact page on WUWT.

    Take care,

    Belvedere

    REPLY: That’s what the Tips and Notes to WUWT is for. Thanks – A

  30. DesertYote (13:59:40) :
    Steve Goddard (12:00:39) :

    “Their mission statement defines a pre-determined agenda and assumptions.”

    WOOT, that exactly what I thought to myself as I read that paragraph!

    They have to thank the sponsors. They used that mission statement to sell the project. I have no problem with people doing that.

    It is still a serious, worthwhile instrument, that will give all of us accurate and NEUTRAL data.

    Much better than the wasted funds for those various ICETROTTERS and BALOONBUFFOONS.

    Hal

  31. @ Anthony,

    I hope u dont mind putting it here. I hope u find the time for this to read, it is very, very interesting and could be very, very important to us all.

    If anyone here on this website has more information for me or for us all to read or see, please share it.

    A concerned Belvedere with bullshitfilter operating at high level :)

  32. Josualdo (13:53:59) :

    “We won’t have any 30-year measurements from it :-) as it seems to be scheduled to work for 5 years or so.”

    Five year? Just enough time to accomplish almost nothing on it’s own. Any climate variations are possible within that insignificantly short amount of time may be interpreted to represent some erroneous “trend”. Using a series of satellites would introduce more “necessary adjustments”, but will any interest/funding continue? More funding? No problem – there’s always “birth taxes”.

    Transparency? – will we find out exactly what the technology, programming and operation is?

  33. belvedere (14:27:45) :

    Hi Anthony,

    This message is off topic, but i dont know how else i am able to contact u. I wanted to bring this to your attention :

    http://www.oneplanetonelife.com/thecoming.pdf

    Hmmmmm…checking out this lead I found at:

    http://www.oneplanetonelife.com:
    under Green Facts, Climate Change, Arctic Climate Change:

    “10. Conclusion

    Climate change presents a major and growing challenge to the Arctic and the world as a whole. Implications are particularly great for future generations that will face the consequences of current action or inaction. ”

    Am I too hasty in dismissing this as a late April Fools prank? EM influences, etc. are concerns but….

  34. Nature does what it does.. It fluctuates and moves up and down in processes we cannot understand. 5 years does not make a difference, 30 years wont either.. 5000 years is more in the direction, but things come more clearly at 500 million orso years bases.. (just picking a number;) )

    up and down.. up and down.. Could this mean that we are are doing this life over and over again? :) Or is that too much matrix movie for you?

  35. This is great timing. They’re launching just as we head into an upswing on polar ice.

    I predict the data will not make regular headlines, just as the Argos buoy data doesn’t, since it won’t show what they want it to. Or they just twist it to show what it doesn’t show.

  36. UK John (12:20:29) :

    Cyro Sat- 2 will measure what it measures. I predict the ice will always be changing, that’s what ice does!

    How the measurements are interpreted by human beings who want to prove one thing or another is however totally unpredictable.

    REPLY:
    Not unpredictable at all
    ““The combination of the technology onboard and a polar orbit will provide evidence”

    Given it is funded by politicians who want more of your money we know what evidence it is going to look for…. “I’m MELTINGGGggggg…..”

  37. Sorry if I’m missing something, but precisely how do they propose to use the satellite to measure:

    1) Sea ice thickness

    2) Sea ice volume

    As usual, the devil is in the detail

  38. “Five year? Just enough time to accomplish almost nothing on it’s own.”

    The news report I read stated that it was a 3 year mission, but that the batteries, etc. could last 5 years. They may catch 3 Sept. minimums, but since they also stated that it is going to take 6 months before they start taking data, they probably miss this Sept. minimum and only catch the next 2.

  39. “From its polar orbit, CryoSat-2 will send back data leading to new insights into how ice is responding to climate change and the role it plays in our ‘Earth system’.”

    I think that more properly should read, “From its polar orbit, CryoSat-2 will send back data leading to new insights into how ice is responding to ‘climate change’ and the role our Earth system plays in it.”

  40. Space Science I – Hope for the best, expect the worst. If you’re lucky, and don’t have any preconceived notions about what you might find, you might be surprised and learn something new. Very iffy stuff space science.

    Space Science II – Always have a ‘Black Mission’ attached to every public mission and you’ll get a bigger bang for your Euro, Buck, or Peso. Very iffy stuff space science, don’t waste any opportunities. Wonder what other things CryoSat-2 is sniffing at?

    Space Science III – ‘Climate Change’ is currently a good cover or excuse to do many things that cost mucho Euros, don’t waste the opportunity to use this as an excuse for everything and anything. The public will pay more when they’re afraid!!

    Space Science IV – AGW, ‘Climate Change’, etc., are great ploys for getting money for projects, but DON’T let anyone who believes this crap get a position in senior management.

  41. @the_Butcher et. al. To the extent that the radar signature penetrates the ice, the return length of the pulse will indicate how thick the ice is before it hits the more conductive liquid underneath it. The start of the echo is the top of the ice, the bottom of the echo pulse is a lower limit of how thick it is. Area*Thickness = volume. This is a conjecture on my part because I do not know the frequencies that they are using. Reflections are caused by a sudden change in index of refraction. The ice/air boundary would be one such change, the ice water boundary would be another. Just a guess, but that is how I would design it for the task.

  42. belvedere (15:36:30) :

    Nature does what it does.. It fluctuates and moves up and down in processes we cannot understand. 5 years does not make a difference, 30 years wont either.. 5000 years is more in the direction, but things come more clearly at 500 million orso years bases.. (just picking a number;) )

    I just have to follow your thought. Let’s say a person’s heart beats exactly every second and a lifespan is 75 years and the Earth is halfway through it’s 9 billion year ‘life’. How long is the Earth’s heartbeat if the Earth has the same number of beats in it’s lifespan as us?

    9 billion years per life-of-beats divided by 75 years per life-of-beats is 120 millon seconds difference (ratio). Or, 120 million / 365.25 / 24 = 1389 hours or 3.8 years/beat. Your right, that says 13680 years to the sun is like one hour is to us on the same ‘heartbeat scale’ and that’s basically nothing in the big picture!

    I love curious comparisons. Gives you a real feel of different scales we commonly speak of.

  43. Data…empirical observations & measurements…to a high degree of resolution, that’s what’s needed.

    Not “gloss” about Man-made climate change.

    Hopefully, this satellite will provide just that: high resolution observations & measurements…and leave the “gloss” to others…

  44. Why launch from Kazakstan? I thought the idea with rocket pads was to get them as close to the equator as possible, to get the extra spin from the earth? Plus, it helps to be on an eastern coast so the rocket can fall into the ocean if it fails. Hence Cape Canaveral, which is about as south as you can go and still be in the USA.

    I would have thought European rocket launches would have been better done on the East coast of Spain.

    Maybe it’s just because of all the legacy equipment of the USSR space program makes for cheap launches. Some Russian oligarch probably got it for free from a communist party mate.

  45. DR (18:26:13) :

    It will be “worse than we thought”…..

    you forgot rotten too!

    why don’t they just fly a few airplanes over like they did last spring from Germany? I believe. Got loads of info in 1 flight, and blew away Catlin ‘findings’…

  46. Amateur Takes Photos From Edge of Space… NASA Wants to Know How

    Lead article on today’s page at astromart.com
    Apparently, Robert Harrison of Highburton, New Yorkshire, attained an altitude of 35 Mi. with a camera in a box, sporting a parachute,tracking device and his propulsion system was a helium balloon that pops at that altitude.

    This isn’t the 1st time amatuers have contributed, and it shouldn’t be the last.
    Congress may waffle, Hubble may fail, but we will still be pulling for you, NASA, to keep doing the things that push the envelope of space discovery.
    We just need you refind your true love: going where no man has gone before.
    That means dropping the loudspeaker types.
    Buzz Aldrin just got voted off Dancing with the Stars last night. He’s a Space Pioneer and Explorer. You need Buzz and Buzz needs you. You should have seen the gleam in his eye when he talked about why he did the dancing contest. Congress needs to get an earful of Buzz. He’ll set ’em straight on what ‘can do’ is all about.

    Amateur Takes Photos From Edge of Space… NASA Wants to Know How
    –It’s really quite simple…can do.

  47. Assume the measurements are accurate and the data will be made public in a timely manner. Comparison of two or three years of measurements will yield an ice trend indicating either slight thinning or slight thickening.

    If it is thinning, they will say that is due to global warming. They will project that rate ahead and tell us the seas will be ice-free in 50 years. QED.

    If it is thickening, they will say that is because global warming reduced it so much in the 2007 minimum that it had no where to go but up. They will say that the thickening is a short-term effect. Then they will predict a rapid turn-around and tell us the seas will be ice-free in 55 years. QED.

  48. brc (18:42:28) :

    Why launch from Kazakstan? I thought the idea with rocket pads was to get them as close to the equator as possible, to get the extra spin from the earth? Plus, it helps to be on an eastern coast so the rocket can fall into the ocean if it fails. Hence Cape Canaveral, which is about as south as you can go and still be in the USA.

    That’s true if you want an equatorial based orbit, but it doesn’t help at all if you want a polar orbit. For that, you have to impose all of the velocity yourself, with no assistance from the spin of the Earth.

  49. brc (18:42:28) :

    Most ESA launches are from Corou in Guayana which is close to the Equator (much closer than Cape Canaveral as a matter of fact). CryoSat however was launched by a Russo/Ukrainian Dniepr launcher, a converted SS-18 missile, from the Baikonur launch center. This by the way is about as far south as you could conveniently get in the old Soviet Union, and still have plentiful uninhabited land to the east for launch debris to land on.

  50. I think most of what they will find is how much the thickness varies, due to wind effects, and be able to see the wind cramming loose flows into compact but smaller clumps, that currently really messes with the volume to surface ratio even on short time scales.

    (better plan future extravaganzas by Catlin and GE? or to better guide rescue efforts.)

  51. The Independent’s version of this is that the increasing polar ice is, in fact, melting…

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Satellite blasts off on mission to map the Earth’s melting ice…

    “…Scientists have been observing significant changes in the polar regions in recent years which are generally ascribed to the warming climate, and in September 2007 the extent of summer ice cover in the Arctic Ocean reached a record low level.

    “…If the land-based Greenland ice sheet were to melt completely, it would mean a global sea-level rise of 21 feet, while if all of the Earth’s polar ice and glaciers were to melt, sea levels could rise by more than 10 times that amount…”

    …etc.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Read the whole article and register to log in and comment if you want here:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/satellite-blasts-off-on-mission-to-map-the-earths-melting-ice-1939864.html

  52. said Volker Liebig, ESA’s Director of Earth Observation Programmes. “To make these calculations, scientists also need information on ice thickness, which is exactly what our new CryoSat satellite will provide.

    I do worry about the absolute certainty this guy has in the equipment. I wouldn’t be worried tho about its accuracy per se, it’s what happens to the “raw” data when it reaches the bowels of the EU mission control centre, for its usual adjustment & refining! Wouldn’t it have been cheaper for we Euro-taxpayers to measure the ice thickness like the Germans did last year with a torpedo radar towed behind a plane whilst the CATLIN crew struggled on the ice pack below?

    Then again, this could be just the usual Peoples Democratic Republic of the EU response to give the “finger” to good ol USA in an effort to tell you colonials that “we’re just as clever as you”! The only thing they are better at I’m afraid to say is to talk about things, rather than actually do them! Tsunami & Haiti to name two, when they very effectively organised a conference on both incidents, but did very little else.

  53. @Steve Goddard (12:00:39) :

    “Their mission statement defines a pre-determined agenda and assumptions.”

    Meh. The data is what the data is. As long as they make all the data freely available to all, then they get to characterize that data just like everyone else does and I’m fine with that.

    I have no interest in stifling opposing view points to my own. I just get riled when opposing viewpoints try to stifle mine by restricting access to the data that will allow a level playing field for debate.

  54. “Their mission statement defines a pre-determined agenda and assumptions.”

    I am really disappointed in the comments so far. It appears the commentators are going overboard in their skepticism. To be sure, the mission statement appears to suggest they are certain that data will confirm their beliefs in AGW. However, they have not started collecting and reporting the data. Let’s wait for that before he start condemning the whole mission.

    Consider the alternative: what if they discover and report that Arctic ice is in fact thickening and expanding — as some scientists are projecting for the neart term. Won’t that be another “nail in the coffin” for AGW.

    I think experts need to follow the reports from the mission to ensure their accuracy and absence of spin. As I noted in a previous comment, the greatest value of blogs like WUWT is that it provides “peer review” when the normal peer review process has been completely corrupted.

    In short, let’s police the reports that come out of this mission to ensure that the press releases report the findings accurately.

  55. Mustafa Mohatarem (06:18:34) :

    I’m sorry Mustafa, but many of us are guided by experience, and our experience with so called climate research is that when it is good news it is weather, and when it is bad news it is climate, and when there is no news, they make it up to be bad.

    Look at the investigations of Phil Jones and Michale Mann. I said they were setting them up for a whitewash even before the investigations began and I was right. I have been right so often with this climate change nonsense that I no longer care what they say because I don’t believe any of it. And if the government subsidizes it it is bad for us. My attitude about this extends to all government funded science. It is corrupt to the core.

    I wish it were different, but I haven’t seen anything to prove me wrong.

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