I’m honored to offer this guest post by Jerome Ravetz, of Oxford University in the UK. Mr. Ravetz is an environmental consultant and professor of philosophy of science best known for his books challenging the assumptions of scientific objectivity, discussing the science wars and post-normal science. Read more about him at his personal web page here, his Oxford page here, or at his blog the Post-normal Times. Also, my thanks to WUWT regular “tallbloke” for his facilitation. – Anthony
Guest post by Jerome Ravetz
At the end of January 2010 two distinguished scientific institutions shared headlines with Tony Blair over accusations of the dishonest and possibly illegal manipulation of information. Our ‘Himalayan glaciers melting by 2035’ of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is matched by his ‘dodgy dossier’ of Saddam’s fictitious subversions. We had the violations of the Freedom of Information Act at the University of East Anglia; he has the extraordinary 70-year gag rule on the David Kelly suicide file. There was ‘the debate is over’ on one side, and ‘WMD beyond doubt’ on the other. The parallels are significant and troubling, for on both sides they involve a betrayal of public trust.
Politics will doubtless survive, for it is not a fiduciary institution; but for science the dangers are real. Climategate is particularly significant because it cannot be blamed on the well-known malign influences from outside science, be they greedy corporations or an unscrupulous State. This scandal, and the resulting crisis, was created by people within science who can be presumed to have been acting with the best of intentions. In the event of a serious discrediting of the global-warming claims, public outrage would therefore be directed at the community of science itself, and (from within that community) at its leaders who were either ignorant or complicit until the scandal was blown open. If we are to understand Climategate, and move towards a restoration of trust, we should consider the structural features of the situation that fostered and nurtured the damaging practices. I believe that the ideas of Post-Normal Science (as developed by Silvio Funtowicz and myself) can help our understanding.
There are deep problems of the management of uncertainty in science in the policy domain, that will not be resolved by more elaborate quantification. In the gap between science and policy, the languages, their conventions and their implications are effectively incommensurable. It takes determination and skill for a scientist who is committed to social responsibility, to avoid becoming a ‘stealth advocate’ (in the terms of Roger Pielke Jr.). When the policy domain seems unwilling or unable to recognise plain and urgent truths about a problem, the contradictions between scientific probity and campaigning zeal become acute. It is a perennial problem for all policy-relevant science, and it seems to have happened on a significant scale in the case of climate science. The management of uncertainty and quality in such increasingly common situations is now an urgent task for the governance of science.
We can begin to see what went seriously wrong when we examine what the leading practitioners of this ‘evangelical science’ of global warming (thanks to Angela Wilkinson) took to be the plain and urgent truth in their case. This was not merely that there are signs of exceptional disturbance in the ecosphere due to human influence, nor even that the climate might well be changing more rapidly now than for a very long time. Rather, they propounded, as a proven fact, Anthropogenic Carbon-based Global Warming. There is little room for uncertainty in this thesis; it effectively needs hockey-stick behaviour in all indicators of global temperature, so that it is all due to industrialisation. Its iconic image is the steadily rising graph of CO2 concentrations over the past fifty years at the Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii (with the implicit assumption that CO2 had always previously been at or below that starting level). Since CO2 has long been known to be a greenhouse gas, with scientific theories quantifying its effects, the scientific case for this dangerous trend could seem to be overwhelmingly simple, direct, and conclusive.
In retrospect, we can ask why this particular, really rather extreme view of the prospect, became the official one. It seems that several causes conspired. First, the early opposition to any claim of climate change was only partly scientific; the tactics of the opposing special interests were such as to induce the proponents to adopt a simple, forcefully argued position. Then, once the position was adopted, its proponents became invested in it, and attached to it, in all sorts of ways, institutional and personal. And I suspect that a simplified, even simplistic claim, was more comfortable for these scientists than one where complexity and uncertainty were acknowledged. It is not merely a case of the politicians and public needing a simple, unequivocal message. As Thomas Kuhn described ‘normal science’, which (as he said) nearly all scientists do all the time, it is puzzle-solving within an unquestioned framework or ‘paradigm’. Issues of uncertainty and quality are not prominent in ‘normal’ scientific training, and so they are less easily conceived and managed by its practitioners.
Now, as Kuhn saw, this ‘normal’ science has been enormously successful in enabling our unprecedented understanding and control of the world around us. But his analysis related to the sciences of the laboratory, and by extension the technologies that could reproduce stable and controllable external conditions for their working. Where the systems under study are complicated, complex or poorly understood, that ‘textbook’ style of investigation becomes less, sometimes much less, effective. The near-meltdown of the world’s financial system can be blamed partly on naïvely reductionist economics and misapplied simplistic statistics. The temptation among ‘normal’ scientists is to work as if their material is as simple as in the lab. If nothing else, that is the path to a steady stream of publications, on which a scientific career now so critically depends. The most obvious effect of this style is the proliferation of computer simulations, which give the appearance of solved puzzles even when neither data nor theory provide much support for the precision of their numerical outputs. Under such circumstances, a refined appreciation of uncertainty in results is inhibited, and even awareness of quality of workmanship can be atrophied.
In the course of the development of climate-change science, all sorts of loose ends were left unresolved and sometimes unattended. Even the most fundamental quantitative parameter of all, the forcing factor relating the increase in mean temperature to a doubling of CO2, lies somewhere between 1 and 3 degrees, and is thus uncertain to within a factor of 3. The precision (at about 2%) in the statements of the ‘safe limits’ of CO2 concentration, depending on calculations with this factor, is not easily justified. Also, the predictive power of the global temperature models has been shown to depend more on the ‘story line’ than anything else, the end-of century increase in temperature ranging variously from a modest one degree to a catastrophic six. And the ‘hockey stick’ picture of the past, so crucial for the strict version of the climate change story, has run into increasingly severe problems. As an example, it relied totally on a small set of deeply uncertain tree-ring data for the Medieval period, to refute the historical evidence of a warming then; but it needed to discard that sort of data for recent decades, as they showed a sudden cooling from the 1960’s onwards! In the publication, the recent data from other sources were skilfully blended in so that the change was not obvious; that was the notorious ‘Nature trick’ of the CRU e-mails.
Even worse, for the warming case to have political effect, a mere global average rise in temperature was not compelling enough. So that people could appreciate the dangers, there needed to be predictions of future climate – or even weather – in the various regions of the world. Given the gross uncertainties in even the aggregated models, regional forecasts are really beyond the limits of science. And yet they have been provided, with various degrees of precision. Those announced by the IPCC have become the most explosive.
As all these anomalies and unsolved puzzles emerged, the neat, compelling picture became troubled and even confused. In Kuhn’s analysis, this would be the start of a ‘pre-revolutionary’ phase of normal science. But the political cause had been taken up by powerful advocates, like Al Gore. We found ourselves in another crusading ‘War’, like those on (non-alcoholic) Drugs and ‘Terror’. This new War, on Carbon, was equally simplistic, and equally prone to corruption and failure. Global warming science became the core element of this major worldwide campaign to save the planet. Any weakening of the scientific case would have amounted to a betrayal of the good cause, as well as a disruption of the growing research effort. All critics, even those who were full members of the scientific peer community, had to be derided and dismissed. As we learned from the CRU e-mails, they were not considered to be entitled to the normal courtesies of scientific sharing and debate. Requests for information were stalled, and as one witty blogger has put it, ‘peer review’ was replaced by ‘pal review’.
Even now, the catalogue of unscientific practices revealed in the mainstream media is very small in comparison to what is available on the blogosphere. Details of shoddy science and dirty tricks abound. By the end, the committed inner core were confessing to each other that global temperatures were falling, but it was far too late to change course. The final stage of corruption, cover-up, had taken hold. For the core scientists and the leaders of the scientific communities, as well as for nearly all the liberal media, ‘the debate was over’. Denying Climate Change received the same stigma as denying the Holocaust. Even the trenchant criticisms of the most egregious errors in the IPCC reports were kept ‘confidential’. And then came the e-mails.
We can understand the root cause of Climategate as a case of scientists constrained to attempt to do normal science in a post-normal situation. But climate change had never been a really ‘normal’ science, because the policy implications were always present and strong, even overwhelming. Indeed, if we look at the definition of ‘post-normal science’, we see how well it fits: facts uncertain,values in dispute, stakes high, and decisions urgent. In needing to treat Planet Earth like a textbook exercise, the climate scientists were forced to break the rules of scientific etiquette and ethics, and to play scientific power-politics in a way that inevitably became corrupt. The combination of non-critical ‘normal science’ with anti-critical ‘evangelical science’ was lethal. As in other ‘gate’ scandals, one incident served to pull a thread on a tissue of protective plausibilities and concealments, and eventually led to an unravelling. What was in the e-mails could be largely explained in terms of embattled scientists fighting off malicious interference; but the materials ready and waiting on the blogosphere provided a background, and that is what converted a very minor scandal to a catastrophe.
Consideration of those protective plausibilities can help to explain how the illusions could persist for so long until their sudden collapse. The scientists were all reputable, they published in leading peer-reviewed journals, and their case was itself highly plausible and worthy in a general way. Individual criticisms were, for the public and perhaps even for the broader scientific community, kept isolated and hence muffled and lacking in systematic significance. And who could have imagined that at its core so much of the science was unsound? The plausibility of the whole exercise was, as it were, bootstrapped. I myself was alerted to weaknesses in the case by some caveats in Sir David King’s book The Hot Topic; and I had heard of the hockey-stick affair. But even I was carried along by the bootstrapped plausibility, until the scandal broke. (I have benefited from the joint project on plausibility in science of colleagues in Oxford and at the Arizona State University).
Part of the historic significance of Climategate is that the scandal was so effectively and quickly exposed. Within a mere two months of the first reports in the mainstream media, the key East Anglia scientists and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change were discredited. Even if only a fraction of their scientific claims were eventually refuted, their credibility as trustworthy scientists was lost. To explain how it all happened so quickly and decisively, we have the confluence of two developments, one social and the other technical. For the former, there is a lesson of Post-Normal Science, that we call the Extended Peer Community. In traditional ‘normal’ science, the peer community, performing the functions of quality-assurance and governance, is strictly confined to the researchers who share the paradigm. In the case of ‘professional consultancy’, the clients and/or sponsors also participate in governance. We have argued that in the case of Post-Normal Science, the ‘extended peer community’, including all affected by the policy being implemented, must be fully involved. Its particular contribution will depend on the nature of the core scientific problem, and also on the phase of investigation. Detailed technical work is a task for experts, but quality-control on even that work can be done by those with much broader expertise. And on issues like the definition of the problem itself, the selection of personnel, and crucially the ownership of the results, the extended peer community has full rights of participation. This principle is effectively acknowledged in many jurisdictions, and for many policy-related problems. The theory of Post-Normal Science goes beyond the official consensus in recognising ‘extended facts’, that might be local knowledge and values, as well as unoffficially obtained information.
The task of creating and involving the extended peer community (generally known as ‘participation’) has been recognised as difficult, with its own contradictions and pitfalls. It has grown haphazardly, with isolated successes and failures. Hitherto, critics of scientific matters have been relegated to a sort of samizdat world, exchanging private letters or writing books that can easily be ignored (as not being peer-reviewed) by the ruling establishment. This has generally been the fate of even the most distinguished and responsible climate-change critics, up to now. A well-known expert in uncertainty management, Jeroen van der Sluijs, explicitly condemned the ‘overselling of certainty’ and predicted the impending destruction of trust; but he received no more attention than did Nikolas Taleb in warning of the ‘fat tails’ in the probability distributions of securities that led to the Credit Crunch. A prominent climate scientist, Mike Hulme, provided a profound analysis in Why We Disagree About Climate Change, in terms of complexity and uncertainty. But since legitimate disagreement was deemed nonexistent, he too was ignored.
To have a political effect, the ‘extended peers’ of science have traditionally needed to operate largely by means of activist pressure-groups using the media to create public alarm. In this case, since the global warmers had captured the moral high ground, criticism has remained scattered and ineffective, except on the blogosphere. The position of Green activists is especially difficult, even tragic; they have been ‘extended peers’ who were co-opted into the ruling paradigm, which in retrospect can be seen as a decoy or diversion from the real, complex issues of sustainability, as shown by Mike Hulme. Now they must do some very serious re-thinking about their position and their role.
The importance of the new media of communications in mass politics, as in the various ‘rainbow revolutions’ is well attested. To understand how the power-politics of science have changed in the case of Climategate, we can take a story from the book Here Comes Everybody by Clay Shirkey. There were two incidents in the Boston U.S.A. diocese of the Roman Catholic Church, involving the shuffling of paeodophile priests around parishes. The first time, there was a criminal prosecution, with full exposure in the press, and then nothing happened. The second time, the outraged parents got on their cell phones and organised; and eventually Cardinal Archbishop Bernard Francis Law (who had started as a courageous cleric in the ‘60’s) had to leave for Rome in disgrace. The Climategate affair shows the importance of the new IT for science, as an empowerment of the extended peer community.
The well-known principle, ‘knowledge is power’ has its obverse, ‘ignorance is impotence’. And ignorance is maintained, or eventually overcome, by a variety of socio-technical means. With the invention of cheap printing on paper, the Bible could be widely read, and heretics became Reformers. The social activity of science as we know it expanded and grew through the age of printing. But knowledge was never entirely free, and the power-politics of scientific legitimacy remained quite stable for centuries. The practice of science has generally been restricted to a social elite and its occasional recruits, as it requires a prior academic education and a sufficiency of leisure and of material resources. With the new information technology, all that is changing rapidly. As we see from the ‘open source’ movement, many people play an active role in enjoyable technological development in the spare time that their job allows or even encourages. Moreover, all over IT there are blogs that exercise quality control on the industry’s productions. In this new knowledge industry, the workers can be as competent as the technicians and bosses. The new technologies of information enable the diffusion of scientific competence and the sharing of unofficial information, and hence give power to peer communities that are extended far beyond the Ph.D.s in the relevant subject-specialty. The most trenchant and effective critics of the ‘hockey stick’ statistics were a University-employed economist and a computer expert.
Like any other technology, IT is many-faceted. It is easily misused and abused, and much of the content of the blogosphere is trivial or worse. The right-wing political agendas of some climate sceptics, their bloggers and their backers, are quite well known. But to use their background or motivation as an excuse for ignoring their arguments, is a betrayal of science. The blogosphere interacts with other media of communication, in the public and scientific domains. Some parts are quite mainstream, others not. The Climategate blogosphere is as varied in quality as any other. Some leading scholars, like Roger Pielke, Jr. have had personal blogs for a long time. Some blogs are carefully monitored, have a large readership and are sampled by the mainstream media (such as the one on which this is posted, Wattsupwiththat.com). Others are less rigorous; but the same variation in quality can be found in the nominally peer-reviewed scientific literature. Keeping up with the blogosphere requires different skills from keeping up with traditional literature; it is most useful to find a summarising blog that fits one’s special interests, as well as a loyal correspondent, as (in my case) Roger ‘tallbloke’ Tattersall.
Some mainstream publications are now saying nice things about the blogosphere. Had such sentiments been expressed a while ago, the critical voices might have had a public hearing and the Climategate scandal might have been exposed before it became entrenched so disastrously. And now the critical blogosphere does not need to be patronised. Like any extension of political power, whether it be the right to believe, to protest, to vote, to form trades unions, or to be educated, it can lead to instabilities and abuses. But now the extended peer community has a technological base, and the power-politics of science will be different. I cannot predict how it will work out, but we can be confident that corruptions built on bootstrapped plausibility will be less likely in the future.
There is an important philosophical dimension to Climategate, a question of the relation of personal scientific ethics to objective scientific facts. The problem is created by the traditional image of science (as transmitted in scientific education) as ‘value-free’. The personal commitments to integrity, that are necessary for the maintenance of scientific quality, receive no mention in the dominant philosophy of science. Kuhn’s disenchanted picture of science was so troubling to the idealists (as Popper) because in his ‘normal’ science criticism had hardly any role. For Kuhn, even the Mertonian principles of ethical behaviour were effectively dismissed as irrelevant. Was this situation truly ‘normal’ – meaning either average or (worse) appropriate? The examples of shoddy science exposed by the Climategate convey a troubling impression. From the record, it appears that in this case, criticism and a sense of probity needed to be injected into the system by the extended peer community from the (mainly) external blogosphere.
The total assurance of the mainstream scientists in their own correctness and in the intellectual and moral defects of their critics, is now in retrospect perceived as arrogance. For their spokespersons to continue to make light of the damage to the scientific case, and to ignore the ethical dimension of Climategate, is to risk public outrage at a perceived unreformed arrogance. If there is a continuing stream of ever more detailed revelations, originating in the blogosphere but now being brought to a broader public, then the credibility of the established scientific authorities will continue to erode. Do we face the prospect of the IPCC reports being totally dismissed as just more dodgy dossiers, and of hitherto trusted scientists being accused of negligence or worse? There will be those who with their own motives will be promoting such a picture. How can it be refuted?
And what about the issue itself? Are we really experiencing Anthropogenic Carbon-based Global Warming? If the public loses faith in that claim, then the situation of science in our society will be altered for the worse. There is very unlikely to be a crucial experience that either confirms or refutes the claim; the post-normal situation is just too complex. The consensus is likely to depend on how much trust can still be put in science. The whole vast edifice of policy commitments for Carbon reduction, with their many policy prescriptions and quite totalitarian moral exhortations, will be at risk of public rejection. What sort of chaos would then result? The consequences for science in our civilisation would be extraordinary.
To the extent that the improved management of uncertainty and ignorance can remedy the situation, some useful tools are at hand. In the Netherlands, scholars and scientists have developed ‘Knowledge Quality Assessment’ methodologies for characterising uncertainty in ways that convey the richness of the phenomenon while still performing well as robust tools of analysis and communication. Elsewhere, scholars are exploring methods for managing disagreement among scientists, so that such post-normal issues do not need to become so disastrously polarised. A distinguished scholar, Sheila Jasanoff, has called for a culture of humility among scientists, itself a radical move towards a vision of a non-violent science. Scientists who have been forced to work on the blogosphere have had the invaluable experience of exclusion and oppression; that could make it easier for them to accept that something is seriously wrong and then to engage in the challenging moral adventures of dealing with uncertainty and ignorance. The new technologies of communications are revolutionising knowledge and power in many areas. The extended peer community of science on the blogosphere will be playing its part in that process. Let dialogue commence!
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My thanks to numerous friends and colleagues for their loyal assistance through all the drafts of this essay. The final review at a seminar at the Institute of Science, Innovation and Society at Oxford University was very valuable, particularly the intervention from ‘the man in the bus queue’.
Stephen, you are a fellow of the Royal Society of Oceanographers. How well do they come out of this so far?
tallbloke (07:08:05) :
Stephen Wilde (06:22:43) :
He nails himself to the mast here:
“The whole vast edifice of policy commitments for Carbon reduction, with their many policy prescriptions and quite totalitarian moral exhortations, will be at risk of public rejection. What sort of chaos would then result?”
i.e. He favours totalitarianism as a remedy for the problems envisaged in his perceived world view. Anything else would lead to chaos.
Are you being thick for a bet or something here Stephen?
Or is your irony meter needing a coin? 😉
—————–
Where exactly does the irony begin and end here?
There is nothing in that penultimate paragraph to suggest there is any attempt at irony or wit of any kind. It is disjointed and incoherent. He invokes AGW itself, only to immediately drop it for a few undefended predictions.
Look at the confusion in the comments; we don’t know what he’s on about, and that’s because he doesn’t, either.
I’m astonished that anyone has described this as well-written. We can’t even agree whether he’s advocating PNS, damning it, describing it or just making it up as he goes along.
Willis calls the piece ‘dangerous nonsense’. I’m not sure about ‘dangerous’ but, at the risk of a little post-normalcy, I’ll go with ‘prolix bafflegab’.
Willis Eschenbach (19:07:57):
You quoted Ravetz: “For example, Ravetz says:
“We can begin to see what went seriously wrong when we examine what the leading practitioners of this ‘evangelical science’ of global warming (thanks to Angela Wilkinson) took to be the plain and urgent truth in their case. This was not merely that there are signs of exceptional disturbance in the ecosphere due to human influence, nor even that the climate might well be changing more rapidly now than for a very long time.”
You interpreted his meaning thus: “Say what? What “signs of exceptional disturbance” is he talking about? What basis is there for his claim that “the climate might well be changing more rapidly now than for a very long time”? This is nothing but advocacy disguised as science.”
I’m sorry Willis, but this time I think you have completely misunderstood what Ravetz has said. He is not saying that the climate is changing more rapidy. He is saying that what went wrong was that the leading practitioners took this to be “the plain and urgent truth.” That is the key point he is making – it is what they TOOK to be the truth. The next sentence then describes what that “truth” was, namely the rapid climate change.
I agree his wording could be better. He should have put “truth” in quotes, and he would have been better served with the word “mistook” instead of “took”, but academics don’t all make great writers. Ravetz is a terrible writer for causing so much confusion.
He should have said “We can see what went wrong when we examine what these evangelical scientists assumed to be the plain and urgent truth in their case. This assumption was not merely that there are signs of exceptional disturbance in the ecosphere due to human influence . . .”
OK, not a new point, but let’s take a look at the post-normal world. Let’s start with ‘The Post-Normal Times’, the website by advocates of post-normal science of which Ravetz is on the Advisory Board. Here it is:
http://postnormaltimes.net/blog/
And on this site you will find Jerry Ravetz as contributor and Member of the Advisory Board, as well as Silvio Funtowitz, who with Ravetz ‘invented’ post-normal science in 1991:
http://postnormaltimes.net/blog/html/about.html
The short biography of Ravetz states
“With S.O. Funtowicz, he developed…the concept of Post-Normal Science…He is currently a Visiting Fellow at the James Martin Institute for Science & Civilization at the Saïd Business School at Oxford University, England.”
Also interesting are the details of Jeroen van der Sluijs
“Jeroen van der Sluijs…has been working at the Department of Science Technology and Society at Utrecht University on a number of projects related to uncertainties in climate risk assessment…In 1997 he received his Ph.D. for a dissertation entitled “Anchoring Amid Uncertainty; On the Management of Uncertainties in Risk Assessment of Anthropogenic Climate Change”…He coordinates several projects on uncertainty management in science for policy in close collaboration with Dr. Silvio Funtowicz (JRC, Ispra) and dr. Jerry Ravetz (RMC London) and in projects around the themes Integrated Assessment, climate change and stakeholder participation in risk assessment.
OK, so what do these wonderful people over at the Post-Normal Times have as links to other recommended sites. Here is THE COMPLETE LIST with the original headings:
Science & Policy Blogs
* RealClimate
* Effect Measure
* Environmental Economics
* James’ Empty Blog
* jfleck at inkstain
* deSmogBlog
* ScienceBlogs
* The Intersection
* Deltoid
* ClimateScienceWatch
* Ecological Economics
* Stoat
* InSCightsLab
* Land Use Watch
* A Few Things Ill Considered
* Rabett Run
* Direction not Destination
* Resilience Science
* Environmental Journalism Now
* Gristmill
* ClimatePolicy[AMS]
* Al’s Journal
* hybridvigor.net
* WaterWired
* Prometheus
* Only In It For The Gold
* The Crossing
* watercrunch
* Climate Progress
* Dot Earth
* maribo
* The future – a rough guide
Other Science & Policy links
* Post-Autistic Economics Review
* NUSAP net
* Environmental Health News
* NESH – Network for Ecosystem Sustainability & Health
* SciDev.Net
* EcoEquity
* Union of Concerned Scientists
* Stephen H. Schneider, Climatologist
Other recommended blogs
* James Wolcott
* Hullabaloo
* Eschaton
* Talking Points Memo
* Mitra – Natural Innovation
* The Huffington Post
* By Neddie Jingo!
* Crooked Timber
* firedoglake
* NextBillion.net
* Media Matters
* The New Security Beat
* Water Words That Work
* Paradise Chased:
Any red flags go up there, perhaps? Has the penny dropped? If regular readers of WUWT are not appalled at this one-sided list of advocacy groups, AGW alarmists, enemies of scientific scepticism (one in that list has called for Nuremberg trials for climate sceptics), and – frankly, in some cases – outright liars, then I pity you.
Or what about Sylvia Tognetti’s (Editor) post:
http://www.postnormaltimes.net/blog/archives/2005/02/unknown_knowns_1.html
“Data from Antarctic ice cores now demonstrate that changes in climate are beginning to go beyond the range of variability known to have occurred over the past 400,000 years…Which brings us into “terra incognita” or Post-Normal Times.
…Given the impact that presumably elected officials can have on the climate policy, whether votes are even counted is also a source of climate uncertainty. So, at the risk of sounding like a worn out campaign slogan, if Bush and the so-called climate skeptics wish to debate climate uncertainty, BRING IT ON!!!!
…The real kudos go to RealClimate for attempting to present an open and accessible discussion of what is and isn’t understood about the science of global warming, and some much needed context for understanding scientific debates.”
What?! RealClimate – “an open and accessible discussion of what is and isn’t understood about the science of global warming”.
Or, how about this one:
http://www.postnormaltimes.net/blog/archives/2008/12/news_that_no_lo.html
“And, via dotearth, we are reminded of when Miles O’Brien managed to put Sen. Inhofe into context, rather than “balance” a broadly held scientific consensus with denialist rants…Exposing the sham arguments made by climate denialists always made good fodder for blogging, and was a relatively easy target…”
Or http://www.postnormaltimes.net/blog/archives/2007/11/known_unknowabl.html
“Al Gore on the NBC Today show, in response to a question from Meredith Viera, regarding a predictable op-ed by so called climate skeptic John Christy:
‘But, Meredith, part of the challenge the news media has had in covering this story is the old habit of taking the on the one hand, on the other hand approach. There are still people who believe that the Earth is flat, but when you’re reporting on a story like the one you’re covering today, where you have people all around the world, you don’t take — you don’t search out for someone who still believes the Earth is flat and give them equal time.’
To be fair, perhaps Christy should get a kudo for recognizing that there is indeed indeed uncertainty about climate change…Christy goes on to recite the usual fallacies that aren’t even worth responding to, even confusing weather with climate…”
Sorry, guys, but I have to sound the alarm again. Ravetz and his post-normal science are a Trojan horse.
David Ball (01:12:51) :
Tallbloke, do not be disheartened. What has happened in this thread is very important and is not merely criticism, but the best kind of criticism. Constructive.
Thanks David. Compared to what your dad endured this is a breeze, though it does sting a bit all the same. It is tricky to discuss these issues dispassionately, given everything that has happened. Scientists from quantificatory disciplines expect neat summaries of objectively testable statements for hypotheses. In the messy world of the politics of science policy this doesn’t happen. The inputs are ‘irremediably soft’ and this leaves an easy way open to disputationally minded participants who wish to ‘flatten the opposition’.
To my mind it is more advantageous to see what useful concepts are put forward within somebody’s conceptual framework and see how these play out in re-application, rather than go for an easy dismissal on the basis of someones political past, or their recent changes of heart on specific issues.
tallbloke
Royal Meteorological Society actually since I joined as a student member in 1968 then was appointed a Fellow in 1971 or therabouts – what would nowadays be termed an Associate Fellow.
That Society isn’t coming out of this well at all. I think they’ve been post normal for some time 🙂
Tallbloke, thanks for your explication of post-normal science. It strikes me as somewhat analogous to the distinction between revolt and revolution. I greatly appreciated Professor Ravetz’s essay, and think there is much of great value in it.
I would like to add to the thoughts of several others here that there were enormous clues as to the nature of what was going on, chief among them the refusal to share data and analysis methods.
It doesn’t matter what the rationalisations for this refusal may be; the point is that once you make that refusal, you’re no longer doing science.
And if you’re not doing science, you’re not a scientist!
Science is a profession, a body of work with rigorous disciplines adhering to it.
[RANT]It is NOT a title to authority that is conferred upon one for life, and that one can resort to whenever expressing an opinion on any matter whatsoever. Scientists are NOT priests, and they damn well ought to know better than to behave like them![/RANT]
A critical aspect of these disciplines of science being that what you have done to achieve your results must be (to the maximum extent possible) reproducible. Most people understand that there are certain areas of enquiry where the initial conditions are not strictly reproducible. In the case of global climate study, this is always(?) true. Other areas like archaeology suffer from similar problems; an artefact can only be discovered once, thereafter only what the discoverer records of the state it was found in can be used by others. In taking ice samples in the antarctic, certain practical difficulties make duplication very expensive.
And it doesnt matter what your conclusions are, or whether they are ultimately validated or invalidated by others work.
Always, there is some form of raw data, the methods of analysis, the records of the provenance of the evidence, the chain(s) of logic that lead from all these to the conclusions. All of these were in existence at CRU, but none of them were made available to anyone perceived to be skeptical.
That is NOT science.
They were NOT scientists.
Michael Crighton made perhaps the most pertinent observation in this respect when he said that as soon as you hear a “scientist” refer to the consensus on any issue, you know that you’ve left the world of science and begun to discuss politics.
The problem at CRU was that it was (is?) staffed with politicians. Sure, politicians with some scientific credentials, but in what they were actually DOING they were being politicians.
Like others, I get the distinct impression that they were employed from the ooutset to BE politicians, but that it irrelevant to the central issue: what they were BEING was politicians, not scientists. What they were doing was politics, not science.
We knew this immediately they first refused to share. We did not need “climategate” to demonstrate it, and it would still be true even if climategate had revealed that they had been beyond reproach in their (other) methods. i.e. as above, this is not about the veractiy of their conclusions; it’s about the disciplines of their profession.
tallbloke (00:47:13)
My apologies for getting your name wrong, talldude. I find it hard to keep track of the pseudonyms that people hide behind … if you have the courage of your convictions, you should have the courage to sign your real name to them. I promise I’ll remember it if you have the nerve to reveal it …
Nonsense. There is nothing within the tenets of normal science that calls for keeping conflicting ideas “in-house”. Nor is anything verified via “peer review”. Peer review is a trivial exercise which has only been part of “normal science” for a few decades. It means nothing. The real issue of science is falsification, not peer review.
When a pamphlet was published entitled 100 Authors Against Einstein, Einstein retorted “If I were wrong, one would be enough.” You will note that he did not specify “one person in-house would be enough”. You will also note he didn’t say “but my theory passed peer review”. This is not a part of science. It is a part of the bullshit that passes for science, particularly climate science. You and Professor Ravetz seem to think that a new kind of science is called for. I say that all we need is the historical openness and transparency that once characterized science, not a new kind of science based on some mystical measure Ravetz calls “quality” that you have neglected to define despite my request that you do so.
The “institution”? What “institution”? There was no “institution” in Climategate, just a bunch of boys playing at science and terrified that someone would “find fault” with their bogus results. For you to present their actions as an indictment of normal science is a sick joke.
Yes, normally there is a “narrative of the grounding of a field of study”. But climate science has nothing of the sort. There is no “theory of climate”. There’s just a bunch of people pushing a political objective and twisting normal science into unrecognizability in the process.
Look, tallman, normal science has worked with institutions for centuries. Normal science has worked with politicians for centuries. Normal science has worked within uncertainty since it has existed. What makes you think it is suddenly inadequate for the task?
Yes, the scientific/governmental complex is a problem, as Eisenhower pointed out, but that’s not a problem with normal science. It is a problem with funding, which is a very different beast.
Normal science places no bar on ‘outsiders’ presenting opinions. I fear you are confuse normal science with climate science. And normal science has always involved local and personal experience. We call it the “smell test” … and I fear that “post normal science” doesn’t pass the smell test of my personal experience. And for centuries, there were only amateur scientists, there was no “peer community”, no “institution”. Science doesn’t require that, it’s a modern invention.
I’m glad he saw the error of his ways. But since all of his valuable insights about “quality” and the process of knowledge and his intellectual wealth led him to a position where he “backed the wrong horse and went down the wrong path” … that should impress us how?
If his brilliant vision of post normal science were worth more than a bucket of warm spit, he wouldn’t have gone down the wrong path. He would have seen, as many of us have seen from the beginning, that science was being perverted and that the tenets of normal science were not being followed. Ravetz’s last-minute conversion reeks. You seem impressed that he had his experience on the road to Damascus before Climategate. I’m not, that was way too late to impress me.
Me, I’m sickened that someone who didn’t see what was happening for the last decade has had a sudden conversion and now sees fit to lecture us on what science really is. If he knew anything about science, he would have been disgusted for years, like many of us were, at the garbage that has been coming out of climate science for a long time. But he didn’t. And since by your own admission his wondrous insights into “post normal science” led him down the wrong path, why should we pay any attention to him and his insights???
So now he is “deprogramming” himself … but I note that you fail to mention what his “mistaken convictions” were. I also note that you fail to see that those “mistaken convictions” were obviously perfectly congruent with his “post normal science”, or he would have noticed the error long ago … I admire his brass balls in coming here to lecture us on what he just realized, but that doesn’t mean that he is right.
And I put it to you that you have it backwards. What I did was normal science. Since neither you nor Professor Ravetz seems to understand it, here’s the primer. Normal science works like this:
1. Someone comes up with a new idea. They publish their idea, along with all of the data, methods, logical exposition, math, and computer codes that support their idea.
2. Other people try to poke holes and find fault with the person’s idea, data, methods, and anything else that supports that idea.
3. If someone can find a fault in the data, methods, or the rest, the idea is discarded. If not, it is provisionally accepted (until such time in the future when someone does find fault with the idea).
Now, that is how “normal science” works. There is nothing in there about how only certain people are qualified to find errors in someone’s work. As Einstein said, any one person can prove him wrong. He didn’t say any scientist from inside the “institution”. He said anyone. The closed system, the old boy network that you seem to think is “normal science”, is a modern perversion of the normal scientific method.
Nor are there any restrictions on how someone might prove my cherished ideas are wrong. They are free to use leaked emails or investigative journalism, whatever. It only takes one person to prove me wrong, regardless of where they get their information. But that doesn’t make investigative journalism a part of science. It’s just another place to get information that might be used in a scientific fashion.
I don’t give a damn if a bloke is “doing his best”, tallguy, that’s more of you and Ravetz’s “quality” nonsense. I care if his ideas are right or wrong, not whether he’s really a wonderful guy whose intentions are pure as Ivory Soap. I’m sure that Phil Jones was doing his best … so what? Should I go easy on Phil and not blast him because he was doing his best? Ridiculous.
Man up and get yourself some standards, tallperson. Science is a blood sport, not some New Age feel-good exercise. Phil Jones is a danger to science, and so is Ravetz with his nonsense about “quality”, whether or not they are doing their best. I’m not going to tickle their tummy and blow in their ear and tell them that everything is all right because they really really tried. I’m going to blast them as best I can, they are a danger to science whether or not they are doing their best. I try to be a post modern man, but in fact I’m just a reformed cowboy, and the reformation only went so deep. Phil Jones and his ilk are down but not out, and I’ll continue to kick them with my size 9 cowboy boots until they are out for the count.
I asked for an explanation of the difference between normal and post normal science. You gave me a great description of the perverted belief system of the Climategate conspirators, which you seem to think is “normal science”. It is as far from normal science as can be. And the only thing you have said about post normal science is that it should involve more people … since this has always been a part of normal science, you’ll forgive me if I don’t see this as significant.
Finally, I asked a number of very pointed questions above, at Willis Eschenbach (00:18:29). I’m still interested in your answers about what the hell Ravetz’s famed “quality” is, and what units it is measured in … qualitons? Qualimetres? The world wonders … the questions are above, if you care to answer them.
Willis Eschenbach (03:37:28) :
My apologies for getting your name wrong, talldude. I find it hard to keep track of the pseudonyms that people hide behind … if you have the courage of your convictions, you should have the courage to sign your real name to them. I promise I’ll remember it if you have the nerve to reveal it …
My real name is written in Jerry Ravetz’ article along with my screen name. This clearly shows you haven’t read his piece carefully at all.
Willis,
You said:
“There is no “theory of climate”.
Well I’ve recently created one.
It might be right, it might be wrong, it might be incomplete but it describes the progression of energy transfer from sun to sea to air to space in a coherent fashion and accounts for a lot of real world observations.
Effectively the troposphere and the climate phenomena within are in a state of constant flux as they seek to maintain equilibrium between variable rates of energy flow from oceans to air and variable rates of energy transfer from air to space.
That equilibrium is maintained by a constant shifting of the latitudinal positions of all the air circulation systems which alters the speed of the hydrological cycle to always oppose forcings emanating from the stratosphere above and the oceans below the troposphere.
Your rather neat thermostat hypothesis fits the larger picture perfectly.
Now that AGW seems to be a dead duck perhaps we can see some real ‘normal’ science.
Willis Eschenbach (03:37:28) :
“Now, that is how “normal science” works. There is nothing in there about how only certain people are qualified to find errors in someone’s work. As Einstein said, any one person can prove him wrong. He didn’t say any scientist from inside the “institution”. He said anyone. The closed system, the old boy network that you seem to think is “normal science”, is a modern perversion of the normal scientific method.”
Quite so. Normal scientists, who should be humble and not bigoted pigheads like Mann, Jones et al, would accept refutation from any source. But their selfish egos and arrogance got in the way of normal science. We accept information from all sources in everyday life – if a pedestrian tells me that my front wheel is flat, he might have noticed something important or it might be a prank. So, what do I do, ignore it because he’s not a tyre expert and drive on?
Science has always been corrupted and hindered by ideas of ‘authority’ and ‘experts’. As I said in another comment, because of Aristotle’s ‘authority’, science was hindered for 2000 years. Aristotle’s physics had cranky laws of motion – he taught that objects in motion at a constant speed were being pushed along from behind. Then Jean Buridan, a priest in the fourteenth century noticed that when he did the long jump he experienced the force of the air on his chest, not on his back. That observation was the beginning of the end for Aristotle’s physics. Buridan wrote
“…after leaving the arm of the thrower, the projectile would be moved by an impetus given to it by the thrower and would continue to be moved as long as the impetus remained stronger than the resistance, and would be of infinite duration were it not diminished and corrupted by a contrary force resisting it or by something inclining it to a contrary motion”
thus anticipating Newton, inertia, momentum etc. Who cares where the refutation of a theory comes from – an honest ‘normal’ scientist will accept it from any source, not fight like a rat in a sack to have his pet theory exposed and tested.
Re: Willis Eschenbach (Feb 11 03:37),
For what it is worth, I think “quality” is used as a measure of defining the elite in this process, used to be called the “ruling class” but in the old soviet union it was the 10% which was qualified ( same root as quality) to enter the party.
By focusing on the context ( process) rather than the content( data/experiments/facts), a ruling class rules. A ruling class over/manipulating science.
ScientistForTruth (04:28:35) :
Science has always been corrupted and hindered by ideas of ‘authority’ and ‘experts’. As I said in another comment, because of Aristotle’s ‘authority’, science was hindered for 2000 years.
Preciseley, and Aristotle is still not a dead dog. He lives on in the minds of tidy systemetizers everywhere. Read Paul Feyerabend’s excellent polemic: ‘Against Method’. As he says, in combatting the status quo, “anything goes”, and that includes investigative journalism, leaked documents, etc etc.
anna v (04:37:37) :
Re: Willis Eschenbach (Feb 11 03:37),
For what it is worth, I think “quality” is used as a measure of defining the elite in this process, used to be called the “ruling class” but in the old soviet union it was the 10% which was qualified ( same root as quality) to enter the party.
By focusing on the context ( process) rather than the content( data/experiments/facts), a ruling class rules. A ruling class over/manipulating science.
“Citizens, we shall say to them in our tale, you are brothers, yet God has framed you differently. Some of you have the power of command, and in the composition of these he has mingled gold, wherefore also they have the greatest honour; others he has made of silver, to be auxilliaries; others again who are to be husbandmen and craftsmen he has composed of brass and iron; and the species will generally be preserved in the children…
An Oracle says that when a man of brass or iron guards the state, it will be destroyed. Such is the tale; is there any possibility of making our citizens believe in it?”
-Plato-
It is when the textbook analogy fails, that science in the policy context must become post-normal. When facts are uncertain, values in dispute, stakes high, and decisions urgent the traditional guiding principle of research science, the goal of achievement of truth or at least of factual knowledge, must be substantially modified. In post-normal conditions, such products may be a luxury, indeed an irrelevance. Here, the guiding principle is a more robust one, that of quality.
I seem to recall an old saying:
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
tallbloke (00:47:13) :
Equally observable is the way they wilfully mischaracterise the import of ideas they take a dislike too, and highlight only failures rather than take a balanced view.
No. PNS is politics. The rest is sophistry.
Enoch Powell once observed that all political careers end in failure. He might have said the same of philosophers.
Wow. I have to admit that I didn’t see all the ramifications of this article on first reading. I still see much of value in it, but having read through many more of the comments these words keep going round in my head:
“You used to call me paranoid,
Pressure!
But even you cannot avoid,
Pressure!
You turned the tap dance into your crusade,
Now here you are with your faith,
And your Peter Pan advice,
You have no scars on your face,
And you cannot handle –
PRESSURE!”
I try to keep out of the po-mo swamp (It’s hard to tap dance there). My continuing disappointment wih the newly “enlightened” or embarrassed, or whatever they are, is as I described previously: it wouldn’t matter if the emails had revealed a warming trend in the data. The people hiding their work were not scientists and that fact was revealed long ago in the act of hiding, and only secondarily in the revelations of the actual data.
anna v (04:37:37) :
Re: Willis Eschenbach (Feb 11 03:37),
For what it is worth, I think “quality” is used as a measure of defining the elite in this process, used to be called the “ruling class” but in the old soviet union it was the 10% which was qualified ( same root as quality) to enter the party.
Yes. The ruling class in Britain have often referred to themselves as “persons of quality.”
Ouch! I’m still reading. Willis Eschenbach quoted this earlier, from Ravetz:
“It could well be argued that quality has always been the effective principle in practical research science, but it was largely ignored by the dominant philosophy and ideology of science. For post-normal science, quality becomes crucial, and quality refers to process at least as much as to product. It is increasingly realised in policy circles that in complex environment issues, lacking neat solutions and requiring support from all stakeholders, the quality of the decision-making process is absolutely critical for the achievement of an effective product in the decision. This new understanding applies to the scientific aspect of decision-making as much as to any other.”
This is truly horrifiying. This IS politics, pure and simple. It is the antithesis of science. It reminds me starkly of a contract bid I was part of, where the customer was the central government. My business partner and I lost the business, even though the Project Manager told us to our face that we had the best offer by far. We were just too small. She actually said to us, verbatim: “If you guys mess it up we all get the blame for going with two unknowns. If we go with XXXX (large international consultancy) then no matter what happens we can say we did the right thing. It’s not our fault it didn’t work!”
This is risk management, bureaucracy style. Results are not important. It doesn’t matter to people who think this way, that the policy “advice” they’ve been giving would destroy our way of life and condemn billions to starvation and squalor. No, what matters is that they can say afterwards: “But look at our pristine decision-making PROCESS!”
Tell me that’s not what he’s saying? Somebody? Please?
Shame they dont have the same respect for the scientific process (i.e. method), huh?
Harm analogous to the danger of PNS that some have foreseen can be seen occurring in current events. An instance is the relativizing of truth in the theorizing of leftist tribes such as feminists. Just because the facts have demonstrated otherwise, that need not falsify their “truth” based on their experience of the situation, feelings and emotions. No one else has the right to say what their “truth” is. Their feelings are their truth.
What is significant is that the courts, in divorce, child custody and support cases,eg, have accepted arguments like these. Truth is not a reflection of the facts but how I feel about things. The result is a favoured group is rewarded at the expense of others based on a nonsense theory and in exchange for political support.
PNS has the same potential for political suborning of science as the relativizing of truth has had in law, and for the same purpose.
Stephen Wilde (04:01:58)
Stephen,
Is this the best place to look?
http://climaterealists.com/attachments/database/The%20Missing%20Climate%20Link.pdf
Wow, wento to bed and got up to a thread that went all emotional. Some auick points#
1. don’t confuse the author’s personal opinions of agw and his political leanings with his description of what is happening to the collective decision making process. They are two different things.
2. What he describes as “post normal” isn’t new. Sure he’s grabbing the spot light (its called being opportunistic) but what he describes is NOT new. In fact one of his examples is how the printing press lead to wide spread literacy and the Reformation where the power over the people was stripped from the priesthood because they could no longer lie about what the data (“the book”) said. they could read the data and analyse themselves, the parallel with the internet is uncanny.
3. What he describes applies to ANY decision process. How did VHS obliterate Beta, a much stronger technology? Better marketing trumped facts. How did VMS get displaced by the much weaker operating system Unix? There were hundreds of times as many people who new Unix as VMS, and they pushed for what they knew. How did Windows displace Unix? There were thousands of times as many people who knew Windows as did knew Unix and they pushed for that they knew even though it was an even weaker technology than Unix or VMS. Ever sit in a corporate board room and watch executives trying to promote their point of view? They omit facts, they cite studies they know have been disproven, and they advance decisions that they know are not the best for the corporation, but are best for their personal power within the corporation.
This stuff isn’t new, its as old as history. sometimes the facts win and sometimes they don’t. The printing press and literacy destroyed the power of the priesthood. The blogosphere destroys the power of the science/priests because even with the data kept secret (for I am a priest/scientist and only I can read the data and pontificate on what it says) the blogosphere can get data on its own and make it available to anyone and publish the analysis. all that’s changed is that the stakes have gobe up because we’re playing for global carbon credits, not a slice of the VCR market.
The climascarists won the first few rounds on points. They got clipped on the chin in the last round and had to take a standing 8 count. They’re not down, they’re not out, and they are still ahead on points. The fight isn’t over, it will NEVER be over, but if you want to get ahead, you need to recognize the rules of the game and use them to your advantage instead of being critical of those trying to explain them.
Tom Kennedy (05:43:20) :
“Just because the facts have demonstrated otherwise, that need not falsify their “truth” based on their experience of the situation, feelings and emotions. No one else has the right to say what their “truth” is. Their feelings are their truth…Truth is not a reflection of the facts but how I feel about things. The result is a favoured group is rewarded at the expense of others based on a nonsense theory and in exchange for political support.”
Welcome to postmodernism. There was a perfectly understandable term for ‘normal’ science, and that was ‘modern science’. Ravetz could have chosen to call his theory ‘postmodern science’, but that would have given the game away. As I said on my post
http://buythetruth.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/climate-change-and-the-death-of-science/
“Once there was modern science, which was hard work; now we have postmodern science, where the quest for real, absolute truth is outdated, and ’science’ is a wax nose that can be twisted in any direction to underpin the latest lying narrative in the pursuit of power. Except they didn’t call it ‘postmodern’ science because then we might smell a rat. They called it PNS (post-normal science) and hoped we wouldn’t notice. It was thus named and explicated by Silvio O. Funtowicz and philosopher Jerome R. Ravetz, who in 1991 wrote the paper A New Scientific Methodology for Global Environmental Issues, followed in 1992 by The good, the true and the postmodern, and in 1993 by Science for the post-normal age, where they promoted the idea that
‘…a new type of science – ‘post-normal’ – is emerging…in contrast to traditional problem-solving strategies, including core science, applied science, and professional consultancy…Post-normal science can provide a path to the democratization of science, and also a response to the current tendencies to post-modernity.’
The ‘response’ wasn’t to be a reaction against postmodernism, but an embracing of it, and going beyond it. And it has sinister ramifications.”
Anthony: Thank you thank you thank you for bringing this PNS here for our debate and digestion. I’d never heard of it-I represent ‘Town’ on here. It’s real and here and absolutely frightening when applied to a global phenomenon like this AGW nonsense but from what i’m reading it’s been here in mild forms for a while. I think it hinges on the idea that common people are too stupid to handle
uncertainty. That given choices of scenarios based on the then known science which if it’s EXTREME scenarios where in fact to be true, requring action ennacting vast politcal changes, that the public wouldn’t understand their choices and could stifle the process of change. Ergo, the need to take the process and the science off piste. Hence, the denial of F.O.I.’s @CRU. And WHEN THE SCIENCE DOESN’T LINE UP….Well, we’ll take that OFF PISTE as well. PNS represents not the end of science ‘as we know it’, but the end of Science. If cash/power/fame are corrupting, wait till PNS tries to accomodate Koranic revelations. This PNS is more interesting and evil than I thought. Though I heard the idea that WUWT is a PNS entity in a sense. Science, in the PNS theory, is intrinsically shaped by power. The Truth, however, is free to wonder around where ever it wants, even hang out at WUWT!!! Again, thank you Anthony for bringing it here.
KTWO (11:26:48) :
It is almost a threat when he tells us that:
“The whole vast edifice of policy commitments for Carbon reduction, with their many policy prescriptions and quite totalitarian moral exhortations, will be at risk of public rejection. What sort of chaos would then result? The consequences for science in our civilisation would be extraordinary”
Man might turn away from science over this? Sure, Jerome!
Exactly. And elsewhere in the alarmist blogosphere the threats are becoming overt:
“If someone were going to mutilate you, something in the range of chopping off two fingers up to removing an eye, both legs and one arm, wouldn’t you want to know about it? or would you reject the report as being too vague to be useful?
Fossil-fueled transportation contributes significantly to global warming. Reports on some of the consequences are germane and useful.” rs, GCC 2/7/2010
From hellfire and damnation to mutilation… that’s progress!
Philip (05:45:50)
Yes, thank you.
However one has to link to the article not the pdf as here:
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4433