Climategate: Plausibility and the blogosphere in the post-normal age.

I’m honored to offer this guest post by Jerome Ravetz, of Oxford University in the UK. Mr. Ravetz is an environmental consultant and professor of philosophy of science best known for his books challenging the assumptions of scientific objectivity, discussing the science wars and post-normal science. Read more about him at his personal web page here, his Oxford page here, or at his blog the Post-normal Times. Also, my thanks to WUWT regular “tallbloke” for his facilitation. – Anthony

Guest post by Jerome Ravetz

At the end of January 2010 two distinguished scientific institutions shared headlines with Tony Blair over accusations of the dishonest and possibly illegal manipulation of information.  Our ‘Himalayan glaciers melting by 2035’  of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is matched by his ‘dodgy dossier’ of Saddam’s fictitious subversions.  We had the violations of the Freedom of Information Act at the University of East Anglia; he has the extraordinary 70-year gag rule on the David Kelly suicide file. There was ‘the debate is over’ on one side, and ‘WMD beyond doubt’ on the other. The parallels are significant and troubling, for on both sides they involve a betrayal of public trust.

Politics will doubtless survive, for it is not a fiduciary institution; but for science the dangers are real.  Climategate is particularly significant because it cannot be blamed on the well-known malign influences from outside science, be they greedy corporations or an unscrupulous State.  This scandal, and the resulting crisis, was created by people within science who can be presumed to have been acting with the best of intentions.  In the event of a serious discrediting of the global-warming claims, public outrage would therefore be directed at the community of science itself, and (from within that community) at its leaders who were either ignorant or complicit until the scandal was blown open.  If we are to understand Climategate, and move towards a restoration of trust, we should consider the structural features of the situation that fostered and nurtured the damaging practices.  I believe that the ideas of Post-Normal Science (as developed by Silvio Funtowicz and myself) can help our understanding.

There are deep problems of the management of uncertainty in science in the policy domain, that will not be resolved by more elaborate quantification.  In the gap between science and policy, the languages, their conventions and their implications are effectively incommensurable.  It takes determination and skill for a scientist who is committed to social responsibility, to avoid becoming a ‘stealth advocate’ (in the terms of Roger Pielke Jr.).  When the policy domain seems unwilling or unable to recognise plain and urgent truths about a problem, the contradictions between scientific probity and campaigning zeal become acute.  It is a perennial problem for all policy-relevant science, and it seems to have happened on a significant scale in the case of climate science.  The management of uncertainty and quality in such increasingly common situations is now an urgent task for the governance of science.

We can begin to see what went seriously wrong when we examine what the leading practitioners of this ‘evangelical science’ of global warming (thanks to Angela Wilkinson) took to be the plain and urgent truth in their case.  This was not merely that there are signs of exceptional disturbance in the ecosphere due to human influence, nor even that the climate might well be changing more rapidly now than for a very long time.  Rather, they propounded, as a proven fact, Anthropogenic Carbon-based Global Warming.  There is little room for uncertainty in this thesis; it effectively needs hockey-stick behaviour in all indicators of global temperature, so that it is all due to industrialisation.  Its iconic image is the steadily rising graph of CO2 concentrations over the past fifty years at the Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii (with the implicit assumption that CO2  had always previously been at or below that starting level).  Since CO2 has long been known to be a greenhouse gas, with scientific theories quantifying its effects, the scientific case for this dangerous trend could seem to be overwhelmingly simple, direct, and conclusive.

In retrospect, we can ask why this particular, really rather extreme view of the prospect, became the official one.  It seems that several causes conspired.  First, the early opposition to any claim of climate change was only partly scientific; the tactics of the opposing special interests were such as to induce the proponents to adopt a simple, forcefully argued position.  Then, once the position was adopted, its proponents became invested in it, and attached to it, in all sorts of ways, institutional and personal.  And I suspect that a simplified, even simplistic claim, was more comfortable for these scientists than one where complexity and uncertainty were acknowledged.  It is not merely a case of the politicians and public needing a simple, unequivocal message.  As Thomas Kuhn described ‘normal science’, which (as he said) nearly all scientists do all the time, it is puzzle-solving within an unquestioned framework or ‘paradigm’.  Issues of uncertainty and quality are not prominent in ‘normal’ scientific training, and so they are less easily conceived and managed by its practitioners.

Now, as Kuhn saw, this ‘normal’ science has been enormously successful in enabling our unprecedented understanding and control of the world around us.  But his analysis related to the sciences of the laboratory, and by extension the technologies that could reproduce stable and controllable external conditions for their working.  Where the systems under study are complicated, complex or poorly understood, that ‘textbook’ style of investigation becomes less, sometimes much less, effective.  The near-meltdown of the world’s financial system can be blamed partly on naïvely reductionist economics and misapplied simplistic statistics.  The temptation among ‘normal’ scientists is to work as if their material is as simple as in the lab.  If nothing else, that is the path to a steady stream of publications, on which a scientific career now so critically depends.  The most obvious effect of this style is the proliferation of computer simulations, which give the appearance of solved puzzles even when neither data nor theory provide much support for the precision of their numerical outputs.  Under such circumstances, a refined appreciation of uncertainty in results is inhibited, and even awareness of quality of workmanship can be atrophied.

In the course of the development of climate-change science, all sorts of loose ends were left unresolved and sometimes unattended.  Even the most fundamental quantitative parameter of all, the forcing factor relating the increase in mean temperature to a doubling of CO2, lies somewhere between 1 and 3 degrees, and is thus uncertain to within a factor of 3.  The precision (at about 2%) in the statements of the ‘safe limits’ of CO2 concentration, depending on calculations with this factor, is not easily justified.  Also, the predictive power of the global temperature models has been shown to depend more on the ‘story line’ than anything else, the end-of century increase in temperature ranging variously from a modest one degree to a catastrophic six.  And the ‘hockey stick’ picture of the past, so crucial for the strict version of the climate change story, has run into increasingly severe problems.  As an example, it relied totally on a small set of deeply uncertain tree-ring data for the Medieval period, to refute the historical evidence of a warming then; but it needed to discard that sort of data for recent decades, as they showed a sudden cooling from the 1960’s onwards!  In the publication, the recent data from other sources were skilfully blended in so that the change was not obvious; that was the notorious ‘Nature trick’ of the CRU e-mails.

Even worse, for the warming case to have political effect, a mere global average rise in temperature was not compelling enough.  So that people could appreciate the dangers, there needed to be predictions of future climate – or even weather – in the various regions of the world.  Given the gross uncertainties in even the aggregated models, regional forecasts are really beyond the limits of science.  And yet they have been provided, with various degrees of precision.  Those announced by the IPCC have become the most explosive.

As all these anomalies and unsolved puzzles emerged, the neat, compelling picture became troubled and even confused.  In Kuhn’s analysis, this would be the start of a ‘pre-revolutionary’ phase of normal science.  But the political cause had been taken up by powerful advocates, like Al Gore.  We found ourselves in another crusading ‘War’, like those on (non-alcoholic) Drugs and ‘Terror’.  This new War, on Carbon, was equally simplistic, and equally prone to corruption and failure.  Global warming science became the core element of this major worldwide campaign to save the planet.  Any weakening of the scientific case would have amounted to a betrayal of the good cause, as well as a disruption of the growing research effort.  All critics, even those who were full members of the scientific peer community, had to be derided and dismissed.  As we learned from the CRU e-mails, they were not considered to be entitled to the normal courtesies of scientific sharing and debate.  Requests for information were stalled, and as one witty blogger has put it, ‘peer review’ was replaced by ‘pal review’.

Even now, the catalogue of unscientific practices revealed in the mainstream media is very small in comparison to what is available on the blogosphere.  Details of shoddy science and dirty tricks abound.  By the end, the committed inner core were confessing to each other that global temperatures were falling, but it was far too late to change course.  The final stage of corruption, cover-up, had taken hold.  For the core scientists and the leaders of the scientific communities, as well as for nearly all the liberal media, ‘the debate was over’.  Denying Climate Change received the same stigma as denying the Holocaust.  Even the trenchant criticisms of the most egregious errors in the IPCC reports were kept ‘confidential’.  And then came the e-mails.

We can understand the root cause of Climategate as a case of scientists constrained to attempt to do normal science in a post-normal situation. But climate change had never been a really ‘normal’ science, because the policy implications were always present and strong, even overwhelming.  Indeed, if we look at the definition of ‘post-normal science’, we see how well it fits:  facts uncertain,values in dispute, stakes high, and decisions urgent.  In needing to treat Planet Earth like a textbook exercise, the climate scientists were forced to break the rules of scientific etiquette and ethics, and to play scientific power-politics in a way that inevitably became corrupt.  The combination of non-critical ‘normal science’ with anti-critical ‘evangelical science’ was lethal. As in other ‘gate’ scandals, one incident served to pull a thread on a tissue of protective plausibilities and concealments, and eventually led to an unravelling.  What was in the e-mails could be largely explained in terms of embattled scientists fighting off malicious interference; but the materials ready and waiting on the blogosphere provided a background, and that is what converted a very minor scandal to a catastrophe.

Consideration of those protective plausibilities can help to explain how the illusions could persist for so long until their sudden collapse.  The scientists were all reputable, they published in leading peer-reviewed journals, and their case was itself highly plausible and worthy in a general way.  Individual criticisms were, for the public and perhaps even for the broader scientific community, kept isolated and hence muffled and lacking in systematic significance.  And who could have imagined that at its core so much of the science was unsound?  The plausibility of the whole exercise was, as it were, bootstrapped.  I myself was alerted to weaknesses in the case by some caveats in Sir David King’s book The Hot Topic; and I had heard of the hockey-stick affair.  But even I was carried along by the bootstrapped plausibility, until the scandal broke. (I have benefited from the joint project on plausibility in science of colleagues in Oxford and at the Arizona State University).

Part of the historic significance of Climategate is that the scandal was so effectively and quickly exposed.  Within a mere two months of the first reports in the mainstream media, the key East Anglia scientists and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change were discredited.  Even if only a fraction of their scientific claims were eventually refuted, their credibility as trustworthy scientists was lost.  To explain how it all happened so quickly and decisively, we have the confluence of two developments, one social and the other technical.  For the former, there is a lesson of Post-Normal Science, that we call the Extended Peer Community.  In traditional ‘normal’ science, the peer community, performing the functions of quality-assurance and governance, is strictly confined to the researchers who share the paradigm.  In the case of ‘professional consultancy’, the clients and/or sponsors also participate in governance.  We have argued that in the case of Post-Normal Science, the ‘extended peer community’, including all affected by the policy being implemented, must be fully involved.  Its particular contribution will depend on the nature of the core scientific problem, and also on the phase of investigation.  Detailed technical work is a task for experts, but quality-control on even that work can be done by those with much broader expertise.  And on issues like the definition of the problem itself, the selection of personnel, and crucially the ownership of the results, the extended peer community has full rights of participation.  This principle is effectively acknowledged in many jurisdictions, and for many policy-related problems.  The theory of Post-Normal Science goes beyond the official consensus in recognising ‘extended facts’, that might be local knowledge and values, as well as unoffficially obtained information.

The task of creating and involving the extended peer community (generally known as ‘participation’) has been recognised as difficult, with its own contradictions and pitfalls.  It has grown haphazardly, with isolated successes and failures.  Hitherto, critics of scientific matters have been relegated to a sort of samizdat world, exchanging private letters or writing books that can easily be ignored (as not being peer-reviewed) by the ruling establishment.  This has generally been the fate of even the most distinguished and responsible climate-change critics, up to now.  A well-known expert in uncertainty management, Jeroen van der Sluijs, explicitly condemned the ‘overselling of certainty’ and predicted the impending destruction of trust; but he received no more attention than did Nikolas Taleb in warning of the ‘fat tails’ in the probability distributions of securities that led to the Credit Crunch. A prominent climate scientist, Mike Hulme, provided a profound analysis in Why We Disagree About Climate Change, in terms of complexity and uncertainty.  But since legitimate disagreement was deemed nonexistent, he too was ignored.

To have a political effect, the ‘extended peers’ of science have traditionally needed to operate largely by means of activist pressure-groups using the media to create public alarm. In this case, since the global warmers had captured the moral high ground, criticism has remained scattered and ineffective, except on the blogosphere.  The position of Green activists is especially difficult, even tragic; they have been ‘extended peers’ who were co-opted into the ruling paradigm, which in retrospect can be seen as a decoy or diversion from the real, complex issues of sustainability, as shown by Mike Hulme.  Now they must do some very serious re-thinking about their position and their role.

The importance of the new media of communications in mass politics, as in the various ‘rainbow revolutions’ is well attested.  To understand how the power-politics of science have changed in the case of Climategate, we can take a story from the book Here Comes Everybody by Clay Shirkey.  There were two incidents in the Boston U.S.A. diocese of the Roman Catholic Church, involving the shuffling of paeodophile priests around parishes.  The first time, there was a criminal prosecution, with full exposure in the press, and then nothing happened.  The second time, the outraged parents got on their cell phones and organised; and eventually Cardinal Archbishop Bernard Francis Law (who had started as a courageous cleric in the ‘60’s) had to leave for Rome in disgrace.  The Climategate affair shows the  importance of the new IT for science, as an empowerment of the extended peer community.

The well-known principle, ‘knowledge is power’ has its obverse, ‘ignorance is impotence’.  And ignorance is maintained, or eventually overcome, by a variety of socio-technical means.  With the invention of cheap printing on paper, the Bible could be widely read, and heretics became Reformers. The social activity of science as we know it expanded and grew through the age of printing.  But knowledge was never entirely free, and the power-politics of scientific legitimacy remained quite stable for centuries.  The practice of science has generally been restricted to a social elite and its occasional recruits, as it requires a prior academic education and a sufficiency of leisure and of material resources.  With the new information technology, all that is changing rapidly.  As we see from the ‘open source’ movement, many people play an active role in enjoyable technological development in the spare time that their job allows or even encourages.  Moreover, all over IT there are blogs that exercise quality control on the industry’s productions.  In this new knowledge industry, the workers can be as competent as the technicians and bosses.  The new technologies of information enable the diffusion of scientific competence and the sharing of unofficial information, and hence give power to peer communities that are extended far beyond the Ph.D.s in the relevant subject-specialty.  The most trenchant and effective critics of the ‘hockey stick’ statistics were a University-employed economist and a computer expert.

Like any other technology, IT is many-faceted.  It is easily misused and abused, and much of the content of the blogosphere is trivial or worse.  The right-wing political agendas of some climate sceptics, their bloggers and their backers, are quite well known.  But to use their background or motivation as an excuse for ignoring their arguments, is a betrayal of science.  The  blogosphere interacts with other media of communication, in the public and scientific domains.  Some parts are quite mainstream, others not.  The Climategate blogosphere is as varied in quality as any other.  Some leading scholars, like Roger Pielke, Jr. have had personal blogs for a long time.  Some blogs are carefully monitored, have a large readership and are sampled by the mainstream media (such as the one on which this is posted, Wattsupwiththat.com).  Others are less rigorous; but the same variation in quality can be found in the nominally peer-reviewed scientific literature.  Keeping up with the blogosphere requires different skills from keeping up with traditional literature; it is most useful to find a summarising blog that fits one’s special interests, as well as a loyal correspondent, as (in my case) Roger ‘tallbloke’ Tattersall.

Some mainstream publications are now saying nice things about the blogosphere.  Had such sentiments been expressed a while ago, the critical voices might have had a public hearing and the Climategate scandal might have been exposed before it became entrenched so disastrously.  And now the critical blogosphere does not need to be patronised.  Like any extension of political power, whether it be the right to believe, to protest, to vote, to form trades unions, or to be educated, it can lead to instabilities and abuses.  But now the extended peer community has a technological base, and the power-politics of science will be different.  I cannot predict how it will work out, but we can be confident that corruptions built on bootstrapped plausibility will be less likely in the future.

There is an important philosophical dimension to Climategate, a question of the relation of personal scientific ethics to objective scientific facts.  The problem is created by the traditional image of science (as transmitted in scientific education) as ‘value-free’.  The personal commitments to integrity, that are necessary for the maintenance of scientific quality, receive no mention in the dominant philosophy of science. Kuhn’s disenchanted picture of science was so troubling to the idealists (as Popper) because in his ‘normal’ science criticism had hardly any role.  For Kuhn, even the Mertonian principles of ethical behaviour were effectively dismissed as irrelevant.  Was this situation truly ‘normal’ – meaning either average or (worse) appropriate?  The examples of shoddy science exposed by the Climategate convey a troubling impression.  From the record, it appears that in this case, criticism and a sense of probity needed to be injected into the system by the extended peer community from the (mainly) external blogosphere.

The total assurance of the mainstream scientists in their own correctness and in the intellectual and moral defects of their critics, is now in retrospect perceived as arrogance.  For their spokespersons to continue to make light of the damage to the scientific case, and to ignore the ethical dimension of Climategate, is to risk public outrage at a perceived unreformed arrogance. If there is a continuing stream of ever more detailed revelations, originating in the blogosphere but now being brought to a broader public, then the credibility of the established scientific authorities will continue to erode.  Do we face the prospect of the IPCC reports being totally dismissed as just more dodgy dossiers, and of hitherto trusted scientists being accused of negligence or worse?  There will be those who with their own motives will be promoting such a picture.  How can it be refuted?

And what about the issue itself?  Are we really experiencing Anthropogenic Carbon-based Global Warming?  If the public loses faith in that claim, then the situation of science in our society will be altered for the worse. There is very unlikely to be a crucial experience that either confirms or refutes the claim; the post-normal situation is just too complex. The consensus is likely to depend on how much trust can still be put in science.  The whole vast edifice of policy commitments for Carbon reduction, with their many policy prescriptions and quite totalitarian moral exhortations, will be at risk of public rejection.  What sort of chaos would then result?  The consequences for science in our civilisation would be extraordinary.

To the extent that the improved management of uncertainty and ignorance can remedy the situation, some useful tools are at hand.  In the Netherlands, scholars and scientists have developed ‘Knowledge Quality Assessment’ methodologies for characterising uncertainty in ways that convey the richness of the phenomenon while still performing well as robust tools of analysis and communication.  Elsewhere, scholars are exploring methods for managing disagreement among scientists, so that such post-normal issues do not need to become so disastrously polarised.  A distinguished scholar, Sheila Jasanoff, has called for a culture of humility among scientists, itself a radical move towards a vision of a non-violent science.  Scientists who have been forced to work on the blogosphere have had the invaluable experience of exclusion and oppression; that could make it easier for them to accept that something is seriously wrong and then to engage in the challenging moral adventures of dealing with uncertainty and ignorance.  The new technologies of communications are revolutionising knowledge and power in many areas.  The extended peer community of science on the blogosphere will be playing its part in that process.  Let dialogue commence!

——————-

My thanks to numerous friends and colleagues for their loyal assistance through all the drafts of this essay.  The final review at a seminar at the Institute of Science, Innovation and Society at Oxford University was very valuable, particularly the intervention from ‘the man in the bus queue’.

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Allan M
February 10, 2010 4:29 pm

Willis Eschenbach (23:53:22)
Spot on my friend (and your later comments). This item makes me think of a dessicated, bloodless weasel, probably what could be expected from a modern British philosopher. I suspect that the ‘poison in the pot’ to which ScientistForTruth (04:06:16) refers may be Warfarin.
Post normal science is:
1. not science
2. an attempt to highjack science’s success for failed political ends

Viktor
February 10, 2010 4:36 pm

This idea of “extended peer review” has been called by other names in the past. It’s nothing new. ‘Peer-2-Peer review’ is how I have seen it most often referred to in other places.
While Ravetz’s post points to p2pr as a good thing going forward, on which I wholeheartedly agree, we mustn’t gloss over the fatal flaw in Ravetz’s analysis. As Willis rightly points out, it is the practice of ‘PNS’ itself that has caused this terrible, terrible mess. It is the practice of ‘PNS’ itself which has helped to drive policy that is unsupported by the data.

February 10, 2010 5:34 pm

John Whitman (15:55:55), John, you wrote, “I think that you are maintaining that there is a kind of ultimate reality that man cannot know and therefore man & his science cannot address it. And likewise, I think you are maintaining that what science does study is some kind of lower reality, a practical reality that is useful but not the “real”
You’re right; those are very philosophical issues. 🙂 But I wasn’t maintaining anything about higher or lower realities. Science as such doesn’t care about any assumed reality. Humans may care about such things. Scientists may also care about such things when in their thinking is not focused on science.
Science itself does not include such things, however. To illustrate, there is no theory of science that begins with, ‘Assume the universe,’ ‘Assume reality,’ or ‘Assume an observable lower reality reflecting a higher reality.’ Galileo did no such thing for his science, nor Newton, Lavoisier, Priestly, Darwin, Einstein or Dirac, among so many others.
Physical theories begin as efforts to explain observables. There is no philosophical content to theory. No reality is assumed. No essences are described, and no nature is invoked. Observables arrive unbidden into our senses or our instruments, and we attempt to derive theories that explain them in some internally coherent fashion. The theories must be deductively falsifiable, and they must be internally consistent; ideally back to fundamental physical theory.
As soon as science was grounded on observables, it ceased any connection to philosophy.
It’s certainly true that people, especially in the past, tried to project their personal philosophies into science; by imposing theological heliocentrism on Astrophysics for example, or by asserting a theological ladder of being as the basis for Biology. But these efforts have inevitably failed, because no philosophical system axiomatically inheres perfect and complete knowledge.
Since Darwin, we clearly no longer need philosophy to explain our place, nor our capacities. Appeals to human nature to rationalize our ability to understand are not necessary.
So far, for example, the only discontinuities in physical reality involve quanta, however even quanta do not imply physical discontinuity because all of physical reality is likely to be explained by a single quantum theory.
So, there is no need to fear or to invoke philosophical multiplicities of realities excluding humans from an ability to understand their position in existence. There is no evidence for upper or lower levels of reality. Everything observable has so far been explicable in terms of physical theory. It’s true that Relativity and quantum mechanics are in some conflict. But no one doubts that a more inclusive theory will have each as a limiting case.
Good luck in Taiwan. I expect you’re eating well. 🙂 And we are separated by a significant time differential. Best wishes.

February 10, 2010 6:14 pm

As Willis rightly points out, it is the practice of ‘PNS’ itself that has caused this terrible, terrible mess.
No amount of practice will help a man deal with PMS. There are no mitigation strategies. There are however, feedback loops, all negative. and they amplify each other.
Oh… p N s. My mistake. Never mind. ouch. ouch. ouch. wife reading over shoulder…hitting hitting hitting….

harold
February 10, 2010 6:18 pm

Here is an interesting blogpost with a comparison between the political philosophies of Leo Strauss (Neo Con) and Jerome Ravetz (PNS), based on the assumption that PNS is an ideology and NOT an observation.
http://i-squared.blogspot.com/2009/12/green-snake-in-grass.html

johnnythelowery
February 10, 2010 6:38 pm

….A ways back, I kind of felt that the AGW movement, at least at the top echelons of power, was actually a front for Peak Oil.

johnnythelowery
February 10, 2010 6:44 pm

..that is, policy initiatives that would not reveal peak oil, which has/had/will force massive changes which could culminte in hoarding, social strife and unrest and the like. And then today Branson is all over the shop to day about a 5 year metric of some sort. Sort of AGW being an effeminate approach to the more sinister, and permanent Peak Oil. Which, thanks to Gore and his fleet of GulF Streams and Chryslers, is alot nearer.

Brian
February 10, 2010 7:03 pm

Warning.
Ravetz a altruistic Shepard or a wolf in sheep clothing.
See writup and 27 comments at
http://buythetruth.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/climate-change-and-the-death-of-science/
Normal science is all there is. PNS is not science it is “science politics” or rhetoric. Ravetz’ talk of recovering the IPCC and the AGW model is unacceptable. Ravetz and Hulme have been predicting this for some time now and are in place to try and save the IPCC and its hoax. Furthermore, Ravetz’ talk of modifying science and increasing the public trust is malarkey. The very fact that the public is skeptical is exactly what will always keep science humble. No amount of bureaucratic controls will make us comfortable or complacent. Ravetz’ and Hulme are trying to preserve scientists in the clergy position. As a scientist myself I think a little bit of public skepticism is a good thing.
also check, http://mikehulme.org/
And http://www.tyndall.ac.uk/
Read some of the white papers by Ravetz and Hulme. Decide for yourself.
Thx,

Editor
February 10, 2010 7:07 pm

tallbloke (15:51:39) : edit

Willis Eschenbach (15:39:02) :

Well, I sure don’t get it. When Ravetz says that “… the puzzle-solving approach of ‘normal science’ is obsolete,” how on earth are you twisting that to a claim that PNS is “a process which happens (or should happen) after a ‘normal’ scientific enquiry into a problem has already taken place.”????

Maybe you missed the answer I gave to this earlier?
tallbloke (05:17:17) :
Willis Eschenbach (02:58:56) :

To me, saying that the “approach of ‘normal science’ is obsolete” is arguing strongly “against science being done properly in the first place”. What am I missing here?

The context of the argument I think. As I read him, it is the approach of ‘normal science’ as applied to policy formation which is obsolete and must giove way to more democratic forms with wider terms of reference.
So, rather than some boffin telling us that ‘this is how it is’ and the government getting away with handing down the policy from on high without further debate, Ravetz is saying, “hang on, we need views from other people here, including those of investigative journalists and people bearing leaked documents. (He wrote that before the CRU leak by the way). This militates for us not against.

I fear that, despite your attempts to twist his words into some reasonable meaning, I still don’t get it. This, of course, may be my own fault.
Perhaps, tallbloke, you could make a clear and simple distinction between normal and post-normal science, supported by quotes from Ravetz. Because what I read of his, and what you say he means, seem totally different to me.
For example, Ravetz says:

We can begin to see what went seriously wrong when we examine what the leading practitioners of this ‘evangelical science’ of global warming (thanks to Angela Wilkinson) took to be the plain and urgent truth in their case. This was not merely that there are signs of exceptional disturbance in the ecosphere due to human influence, nor even that the climate might well be changing more rapidly now than for a very long time.

Say what? What “signs of exceptional disturbance” is he talking about? What basis is there for his claim that “the climate might well be changing more rapidly now than for a very long time”? This is nothing but advocacy disguised as science, and Ravetz accepts it as his starting without a single probing thought.
I see no signs of “exceptional disturbance”, which is exceptionally disturbing. Where is Ravetz’s exceptional evidence for such an “exceptional disturbance”?
If you start from fanciful unsupported position like that, I’m sure you can prove anything. However, at the end of the day, it doesn’t actually work. It’s like the old joke about how many legs a cow has, if you consider a tail to be a leg.*
But that is exactly the problem with post normal science. Ravetz has swallowed the AGW lie whole, because he can’t be bothered with the “obsolete” normal scientific ideas like evidence and falsifiability. Instead, he accepts the lie, and then looks elsewhere for the reasons that the ship has gone off course.
But the reason the ship is off course is precisely the lie that Ravetz has already accepted, the idea that the current situation is “exceptional”.
So tallbloke, perhaps you could explain to me, in some very clear way, what you think is “normal science”, and exactly how it differs from “post normal science”. Because as far as I can see, PNS is not science, it is politics.
Yes, Ravetz says that we need more people involved in the scientific process, which is good. But what is not good is that he seems to be talking about some other scientific process than the one that has served us so well for so many years. To me, Ravetz appears to follow the White Queen school of science, viz:

‘I ca’n’t believe that!’ said Alice.
‘Can’t you?’ the Queen said in a pitying tone. ‘Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.’
Alice laughed. ‘There’s no use trying,’ she said ‘one ca’n’t believe impossible things.’
‘I daresay you haven’t had much practice,’ said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.’

Ravetz doesn’t seem to see that it is the believing of impossible things that is the problem. He believes them before breakfast, and as a result he thinks the problem is how those impossible beliefs played out in the political arena. As I said before, the problem is not how the Hockeystick was morphed into a pseudoscientific club with which to beat AGW opponents. The problem is that the Hockeystick was a fraud and a fake.
And it was not noticed precisely because people bought into PNS, they didn’t think that it was important to follow the procedures of normal science. They, like Ravetz, believe impossible things because the ideas appealed to them. They, like Ravetz, scorn “obsolete” scientific norms like evidence and replicability and transparency.
In other words, as far as I can see, “post-normal science” is not the solution. It is the problem.
But like I said, perhaps I don’t really grasp the nuances, perhaps I lack the deep Yoda-like understanding of the Force that allows a genius like Ravetz to sense that there are “signs of exceptional disturbance in the ecosphere” without providing the slightest scrap of evidence for the existence of said disturbances … tallbloke, I await your explanation, as these waters seem to be too deep for me.
w.
* How many legs does a cow have, if you consider a tail to be a leg? Four … because except in Post Normal Science, considering a tail a leg doesn’t make it one …

memory vault
February 10, 2010 7:26 pm

I am stunned this article is even on WUWT and even more stunned at the responses to it by many people.
“Post-normal science” – this man’s raison d’etre – is “consensus science”, eg as in “the science is settled – the consensus of opinion is AGW is real”.
Isn’t that the mantra of the AGW cultists on the other side of the debate? Isn’t that how we got into this mess in the first place?
I read the article, started reading some of the (mostly supportive) comments, then went and spent an hour trawling through the website “Post-Normal Times” and its associated blogs.
Talk about an AGW-cultist’s paradise. There you will find everything AGW from “AGW is real” and the “need” for carbon taxes, to “deniers should be jailed – or worse”, and everything in between.
I stopped counting the word “deniers” after finding it 25 times in less than ten minutes. I found, without really looking, three bitter ad hominem attacks on the WUWT website and Watts himself.
A word search of this article shows the following: the word “fraud” does not appear at all, and the words “corrupt” and “corruption” only appear in total three times; twice referring to the “inevitable” corruption that “eventually” occurred (because “post-normal science” wasn’t applied), and once explaining how, with the adoption of “post-normal science”, (cleverly disguised as a compliment to the bloggers and researchers like WUWT) is less likely to happen in the future.
Get a grip folks: this article is nothing more than one of the elite of the enemy’s intelligentsia, somewhere far-left of Stalin for the last 20 years, suddenly realising the wind has changed, and deciding to go sit on the fence for a while to see which way the funding goes.
That and a “they only meant well” apologetic explanation for the fraud, lies and corruption over the past twenty years perpetrated by “scientists” cut from the same cloth as Ravetz himself. Plus an unashamed plug for “consensus science” itself.
Well I have news for the good doctor: there is something of a revolution starting, and as in all revolutions, the peasants aren’t going to be appeased until heads have rolled – lots of them.
The entire credibility of science – ALL science, not just the “climate” variety, will continue to evaporate until and unless the likes of Hansen, Mann, Jones, Houghton, Pachauri and the rest are behind bars, preferably in the company of a lot of ex-politicians.
I am somewhat dismayed that the erstwhile highly-intelligent people behind WUWT would be “honoured” to post this article.
And equally dismayed that such a large chunk of their equally intelligent readers could be so taken in by such a transparent attempt by an old leopard to appear to be changing his spots.

anna v
February 10, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: memory vault (Feb 10 19:26),
I am somewhat dismayed that the erstwhile highly-intelligent people behind WUWT would be “honoured” to post this article.
I take honored as in ” honored guests and members”, as one bows to the adversary in Japanese martial arts :). ( I use a post normal politeness language 🙂 )
And equally dismayed that such a large chunk of their equally intelligent readers could be so taken in by such a transparent attempt by an old leopard to appear to be changing his spots.
Never underestimate the power of blarney, in the sense of skillful flattery. After being called denials for so long it feels good that a leopard considers the other POV. On the first reading, I was taken for a ride until I hit the last paragraphs.

GaryPearse
February 10, 2010 8:28 pm

Anthony, this is a good essay. Itwould have been excellent if it had been more concise and if he had done a better job of sharpening hi thesis. Had he done so Willis Eschenbach and a few others would have understood his main point that the old peer review procees (old boy/girl network) is essentially dead because the blogosphere won’t let its abuses continue in the future. This fact incidently will also inffuse more honesty (and fear) into the minds of otherwis ‘pal’ reviewers.
Normal anything has generally ceased to exist. We have a crisis of morality in all spheres (CEOs of banks, businesses; religious leaders engaging in formerly unthinkable behaviors and breaches of trust; Nobel Prizes handed out for political chicanery, means unabashedly justified by the ends, degrsdation of language, civility and other dumbing down aspects ….). Tell me how science could have escaped this plague? It didn’t. And that’s why we have bogus climate science. WUandSTcoffee!
One other thing missed by everyboby Is our prof didn’t have to wait until the investigations of UEA and Penn St U were completed before boldly calling a spade a spade. This is laudable in itself. Bravo Anthony and our phil of science.

Geoff Sherrington
February 10, 2010 8:42 pm

Willis Eschenbach (19:07:57) :
Yep, I’m on your side.
Post normal science is a confusion with the normal advance of normal science. It does not even deserve as different name – unless it’s simply “progress”.
The bigger worry is activism and its publicity, distorting normal science. Some of it gets quite hateful.
Predictably, we try to examine concepts in terms of our experience. Imagine trying to go about the rather difficult science of finding a new ore deposit, if some of the time you are sitting down debating if you are being normal or post normal, or activist or not, or left wing or right wing, or dogma-driven or not.
It’s laughable.

February 10, 2010 8:44 pm

Quote: memory vault (19:26:20) :
“I am stunned this article is even on WUWT and even more stunned at the responses to it by many people.”
I agree with most of what you say, except that I am delighted to see Professor Jerome Ravetz of Oxford University expose himself on WUWT.
With kind regards,
Oliver K. Manuel

Editor
February 10, 2010 8:58 pm

Geoff Sherrington (20:42:46)

Willis Eschenbach (19:07:57) :
Yep, I’m on your side.
Post normal science is a confusion with the normal advance of normal science. It does not even deserve as different name – unless it’s simply “progress”.

Me, I’m confused about what “post normal science” actually is. I’m waiting for tallboy (or the Professor) to give us a good, clean, usable, two or three sentence definition of PNS that distinguishes it from normal science.
Because so far, all I have is enough waffle and erudite confabulation to fill a large room, but nothing that would enable me to say “This is PNS and this is not …”

Editor
February 10, 2010 8:59 pm

GaryPearse (20:28:29) : edit

Anthony, this is a good essay. Itwould have been excellent if it had been more concise and if he had done a better job of sharpening hi[s] thesis.

Gary, what is his thesis? That’s what I find hard to get a handle on.

J.Peden
February 10, 2010 9:47 pm

Well, right off we have:
Climategate is particularly significant because it cannot be blamed on the well-known malign influences from outside science, be they greedy corporations or an unscrupulous State.
Oh really? But not to worry, as per usual it’s probably all the fault of the evil Corporations, after all. Or else who are the “special interests” Ravetz is talking about here:
First, the early opposition to any claim of climate change was only partly scientific; the tactics of the opposing special interests were such as to induce the proponents to adopt a simple, forcefully argued position.
Right, Climate Science was forced to go all “tribal”, as usual, instead of doing real Science, whlich it never did, still hasn’t done, and is exactly why we are even here talking about it. Which we shouldn’t have had to do in the first place and which has nothing to do with assaults from opposing “tribes”, or with arguments about who is the meaner tribe or the bigger victim.
There really isn’t anything complicated about it all, except for the problem of undoing the evil web weaved by “malign influences”, currently being exposed and defined.
And it distresses me a little to hear even “Philosophers” talk this way. But apparently it’s all the rage to have everything be Post Normal, as opposed to seeing it for what it really is, grossly Regressive and an affront to Humanity.

J.Peden
February 10, 2010 9:50 pm

oops, my third paragraph above is Ravetz again.

J.Peden
February 10, 2010 11:30 pm

“memory vault (19:26:20)”
I agree with your analysis, except in that the publication of Ravetz’s argument, such as it is, here is fine with me. It’s strange that our self-annointed betters make so little sense, while so dedicatedly trying to destroy all meaning. Or maybe it’s not so strange!
I know, let’s take a vote. Whatever a “vote” is, which I guess we’ll have to vote on, too, and so on.

Editor
February 11, 2010 12:18 am

Man, the more I read about “Post Normal Science”, the more disgusted I get. Here’s Ravetz raving … Try reading it, and see if your brain falls out like mine did. I quote:

It is when the textbook analogy fails, that science in the policy context must become post-normal. When facts are uncertain, values in dispute, stakes high, and decisions urgent the traditional guiding principle of research science, the goal of achievement of truth or at least of factual knowledge, must be substantially modified. In post-normal conditions, such products may be a luxury, indeed an irrelevance. Here, the guiding principle is a more robust one, that of quality.
It could well be argued that quality has always been the effective principle in practical research science, but it was largely ignored by the dominant philosophy and ideology of science. For post-normal science, quality becomes crucial, and quality refers to process at least as much as to product. It is increasingly realised in policy circles that in complex environment issues, lacking neat solutions and requiring support from all stakeholders, the quality of the decision-making process is absolutely critical for the achievement of an effective product in the decision. This new understanding applies to the scientific aspect of decision-making as much as to any other.

Say what? A few of the questions that this brings up, in no particular order:
What is the meaning of “quality” in that context?
How is “quality” to be measured?
Who defines what is “quality” and what is not?
How on earth can the “achievement of truth” be “an irrelevance”?
Why is “quality” better than “falsifiability”? In other words, is a high-quality falsehood better than a low-quality fact?
How can we tell if we have a “quality” decision or not?
How is “quality” more “robust” than scientific investigation?
How can we determine when the “textbook analogy” has failed?
What is the “textbook analogy” when it is at home, anyhow? Ravetz says “Contrary to the impression conveyed by textbooks, most problems in practice have more than one plausible answer; and many have no answer at all.” Hello? I’d say he’s been reading the wrong textbooks if he believes that.
Why do environmental (or any other) decisions require “support from all stakeholders”? I recall very, very few decisions in any field that fit that straitjacket.
How do we know that “quality has always been the effective principle in practical research science”?
What makes Ravetz think that “quality” (whatever that might be) has been “ignored by the dominant philosophy and ideology of science.”?
And most importantly, we have used plain old “normal” science for several hundreds of years. We have used it with or without his freakin’ “textbook analogy”. We have used it for situations with huge uncertainties. The scientific method is tried and tested. So the big question is …
Why should we now throw the tested and successful scientific method over in the name of some vague, undefined, unmeasurable mumbo-jumbo called “quality”?
tallbloke, you’ve got to help me here with some very clear answers to those questions, because as far as I am concerned, this is psychobabble, and very dangerous psychobabble at that. Anything could be justified in the name of “quality”, and for me, that means it is an extremely “low-quality” concept …
Ravetz has done a very clever and very sneaky thing in his essay. He has pretended that the problem is that we have not been using his magical “post normal science”, simply because many people have been excluded from the discussion. He uses this as a hook to con people into thinking that we need post normal science.
But the problem is the reverse of that. As Melanie Phillips points out, the problem is that Jones and his co-conspirators have been using post normal science … oooh, very tricksy bad Professor, what has he got in his pocketsss, precious? Anyone who can fool people into believing that scientific truth is an irrelevance, as Ravetz claims above, is a very dangerous man. The truth may be ugly, it may be damaging, it may be confusing, but it is never, ever irrelevant.
That’s how we got into this situation, by people believing that the truth is irrelevant, by people claiming what counts is the “process” and the “quality”. Believing in “quality” is not science of any kind, post-normal or not. It is blind, asinine medieval faith at its worst. Quality as a scientific measure? Get real.

tallbloke
February 11, 2010 12:47 am

Willis Eschenbach (20:58:21) :
Me, I’m confused about what “post normal science” actually is. I’m waiting for tallboy (or the Professor) to give us a good, clean, usable, two or three sentence definition of PNS that distinguishes it from normal science.

It’s observable that people who disagree with you often seem to get your name wrong. Equally observable is the way they wilfully mischaracterise the import of ideas they take a dislike too, and highlight only failures rather than take a balanced view.
However, I’ll attempt to fullfil your request.
Normal science proceeds by forming an institutionally driven narrative of the grounding of a field of study, within which trained practitioners produce papers which advance that corpus of knowledge by addition and extension, verified and approved by the upper echelons of that specialism via peer review. Where there is conflict of competing ideas within a speciality, it is kept in-house, Halton Arp is denied telescope time, Fred Singer and Roger Pielke are sidelined, and the faux consensus move forward, and no-one outside the discipline is any the wiser for a while.
When the products of science are called for in support of a policy decision, the institution uses it’s power to stifle internal dissent, and a unified picture is presented. This is necessitated by the requirement of policy makers for clear lines of evidence, and since they represent the funding body, the scientific institutions make sure they get it.
The tenets of Post Normal Science demand that ‘outsiders’ get the opportunity to have input to the policy forming process. Jerry Ravetz writes:
“This new peer community can also deploy ‘extended facts’, including local and personal experience, as well as investigative journalism and leaked sources. So Post-Normal Science is inevitably political, and involves a new extension of legitimacy and power”.
Now, because of his allegiances, personal prediliction etc Jerry Ravetz personally backed the wrong horse and went down the wrong path, but this doesn’t mean that we should reject the more useful of the insights he has had on the process of knowledge use and policy formation. And as you note, he didn’t wait for the outcome of investigations to force him to realize his errors. He has willingly embarked on a personal deprogramming exercise of his own accord. In salvaging his intellectual wealth from the mess of his mistaken convictions, he has seen that the principles of PNS actually describe what the sceptical blogosphere has been up to and what it is demanding quite well. Good work brought forward by unconventional non ‘normal-science’ means, utilising leaked documents and investigative journalism to clear a path for it’s elevation to equal status with entrenched dogma.
You, Willis, are a practising scientist, and you brought a paper forward here last year, to conduct ‘open peer review’. I put it to you that this was a ‘post normal science’ thing to do par exellence. You had seen that the ‘normal science’ channels were blocked, and that a more radical approach was needed. Welcome to the radical’s bench.
Live and let live, don’t kick a guy when he is down, and never blast a bloke who is doing his best.

February 11, 2010 1:01 am

Tallbloke said:
“He has willingly embarked on a personal deprogramming exercise of his own accord”.
I found this a revealing insight. You ‘deprogramme’ people who are in cults of one sort or another-usually religious ones. It takes considerable courage to do this yourself against the prevailing wisdom in youir own comunity. So the good Professor ought to be congratulated for starting out on his own personal journey.
Those with more knowledge on the subject than me might care to comment as to how you deprogramme members of a cult. Does it have to be done individually or can you reach out to larger groups within the cult?
Tonyb

David Ball
February 11, 2010 1:12 am

Tallbloke, do not be disheartened. What has happened in this thread is very important and is not merely criticism, but the best kind of criticism. Constructive. Reading over all the posts, I detect no malicious intent from anyone. Purely the input of many perspectives. The response from Mr. Ravetz will be interesting, I’m sure. I for one, am grateful to all posters as it has helped inform my own perspectives. Thanks to all and to you, Tallbloke. It takes courage to place ones thoughts under the WUWT? microscope for analysis. The posts here are why I read and enjoy WUWT?.

Philip
February 11, 2010 1:36 am

Willis:
I agree with you that it is important to reassert traditional scientific values. To be clear, I also disagree with emission reductions and all the rest of it. Nonetheless, I think there is a point to be answered in how physics deals with complex systems.
Without making any judgements on it, PNS seems to me to be an attempt at a more holistic approach in which incomplete scientific evidence is used in conjunction with human values in order to reach solutions to complex problems that have direct consequences for people. It seems to me to be suggesting that for this kind of problem, the reductionist approach of physics is not appropriate. I think it is true that complex systems often cannot be successfully dealt with by reductionism, and yet some sort of answer is still needed in order to understand how to respond at a human level.
Nonetheless, the climate system IS a physical system and so should be amenable to a reductionist approach. The objective of such an approach would then be to understand and describe the different physical mechanisms involved, and to make falsifiable statements that can be put to the test (as I think you are correctly pointing out). But stepping back a little, I’m not so sure that the physics is that relevant to the policy question. I think that the IPCC unwisely takes a reductionist approach, when what is really important for policy is how we should respond to climate changes, which after all seem likely to happen whatever the cause, and are potentially dangerous.

February 11, 2010 1:49 am

tallbloke,
I don’t see anything in your summary that requires a distinction between normal and post normal science.
All that went wrong was that normal science was not properly applied. You don’t need to invent a new form of science to deal with that. Just do the normal science correctly.
You only need to introduce a concept of post normal science if you want to introduce an additional factor which normal science cannot deal with at all. Ravetz proposes that social and political considerations be grafted onto the normal scientific process and that is what he calls post normal science.
So what he is looking to achieve is to hijack the integrity of the scientific process and use it to give undeserved credibility to social and political decision making.
That is deeply wrong and so dangerous that it threatens our civilisation because our success over the past 500 years has been based on the separation of science and politics.
Lots of regimes have tried to merge the two. His intentions are not new or unique. Every time science and politics has been merged it has been disastrous.
I’m not impressed when Ravetz seeks to distance himself from the climategate farrago.
I would be impressed if he were to admit that his desire to merge science and politics was wholly misguided and was the primary cause of climategate and many similar corruptions of science that are going on around us all the time unnoticed.
I’m happy to welcome a sinner who repenteth but on the basis of this article he does not repent at all, he just wants to draw the blogosphere into the process of post normal science the better to advance the corrupting process.
Sorry if you find that an unpalatable view of your friend’s position.

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