Workers at one charity shop in Swansea, in south Wales, described how the most vulnerable shoppers were seeking out thick books such as encyclopaedias for a few pence because they were cheaper than coal.
A lot of them buy up large hardback volumes so they can stick them in the fire to last all night.’
A 500g book can sell for as little as 5p, while a 20kg bag of coal costs £5.
Since January 2008, gas bills have risen 40 per cent and electricity prices 20 per cent, although people over 60 are entitled to a winter fuel allowance of between £125 and £400.
Daily Mail, 3 January 2010 Tom McGhie
Household gas and electricity bills are expected to rocket fourfold to nearly £5,000 a year by the end of the decade to meet Government-imposed green targets. And the price heavy industry will have to pay by 2020 is so high that energy-dependent firms could be wiped out, causing thousands of job losses, said an industry spokesman.
A massive rethink on the cost of ‘green energy’ is taking place in Whitehall among senior regulators and industry, leading some to question whether the public will be prepared to pay increasingly high bills for the UK to become greener than most countries.
Officials at regulator Ofgem now privately admit that a report they issued only last year severely underestimates the cost of cutting carbon emissions by building a new energy infrastructure for the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1240201/Watchdog-rethinks-consumer-cost-green-energy.html
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
With all this cold weather, you’d think ManBearPig would go into hibernation……. permanently……… or is he just native to a few dodgy weather stations here in Australia?
Roy (07:33:35)
Not according to my rough numbers. If you can buy 500g (about a pound) of paper for 5 pence, that has a heat value of about 9,000 BTU. Electricity in London costs on the order of 12 pence per kilowatt hour, so five pence gives a heat value of about 1,400 BTU.
So even though a fireplace is only something like 20% to 50% efficient, you are still ahead buying books and burning them even at the low end of the efficiency range. If you have a wood stove you’re better off than a fireplace, of course. And if you are smart about your fireplace (crack the window nearest the fireplace to avoid pulling warm air from the room) you can up the efficiency at no cost.
What, you think just because they are old the pensioners are dumb? I guarantee if there was more energy in electricity you wouldn’t be reading about them burning books …
We are officially “Wacko’s” now on Wiki:
>>>
Wacko alert?
Recently posted off in Wottsup [25]:
I would invite all readers to help improving the climategate article on wikipedia, which has been hijacked by alarmists that have a troop of sleepless zealots that work in conjunction with the aim to keep the page as useless as possible. Please bear in mind the use of reliable sources and read and add your views in the discussion page before changing the main article. We need more people to counter W. Connolley and his troop of alarmists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident
talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident
William M. Connolley (talk) 16:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Probably worth mention at the Climate change probation page. Semi-protection is always an option. Guettarda (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
At the moment, SPAs don’t seem to be a huge problem. If it becomes one, I’m considering some sort of enhanced semi-protection (e.g. 100 edits, registered 3 months ago) I have no idea what the numbers would be at the moment. But right now there doesn’t seem to be a huge problem. Prodego talk 17:27, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
The person who posted that comment to Wottsup is obviously a regular contributor to this Wikipedia topic, so it might not be a good idea to refer to them as a “wacko”. This is a clear case of meat puppetry though, and that should probably be addressed in some manner. — Scjessey (talk) 17:57, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Oh goody, I’ve always wanted to add User:JzG/Uninformed wingnut drivel to an article… — ChrisO (talk) 18:14, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. I’d never seen that template before. Guettarda (talk) 18:32, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
I’ve raised this matter at WP:ANI, in case anyone is interested. — Scjessey (talk) 19:11, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
I’ve tried to AGF and made a comment on William M. Connolley (talk • contribs) talk page, but what happens? I get attacked, ridiculed, and minimalized. My point was don’t use such words describing other people contributing to other web pages like wacko, Wottsup etc. Thanks! Nsaa (talk) 07:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry that you’re offended by a little levity about potential meatpuppets. As for Watts Up With That? (or wottsup? in common English as spoke in the sarf) this post from the Big Yin may inform you a bit more about the issue that was so sneakily hidden away here. Please accept that going on about it is not a way of improving this particular article, and hence is inappropriate for this talk page which is governed by talk page guidelines. Hope that sets things to rest, do feel free to discuss it further on my talk page rather than cluttering up this article talk page. Thanks, dave souza, talk 08:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
>>>
Alas it is obvious the British political class are contemptuous of its responsibilities towards the domestic population. They are far too busy thinking they are saving the world to worry about the effects of their stupid polices and decisions. Not only do they intend to make energy so expensive that most will be unable to afford adequate heating, but they also intend to expand their remit into the provision of food so we can all starve. Perhaps in combination this will finally stir the nation enough for them to finally abandon their ridiculous affection for party allegiance and find those who will run the nation effectively.
Pascvaks (07:22:27) : edit
??44 lbs of coal costs $7.50 – $10??
Time to export some relief to the good ol’ USS United Kingdom! […]Burning books? Books cheaper than coal? Hello! What planet am I on?
And that pretty much sums up the problem with “managed” economies and “command and control”.
Under the old USSR they found pig farmers feeding bread to pigs, since it was subsidised to cheaper than grain…
Coal in the USA runs about $20 to $50 a TON last time I looked. (But in some places is as low as $12 / TON in some years).
So whenever you distort prices artificially, you get bizarre results like burning books or running cars on corn…
When will folks learn that the laws of economics are just as immutable as the laws of physics?
@Roy:
Per the search function in my browser, first use of “fireplace” is in your comment, not the article. The article does say a large book can last all night. That does not happen in an open fireplace, but does in a very efficient wood stove.
My conclusion: They are using wood stoves, not fireplaces, and you have leapt off a cliff of conclusion…
Save The Books, send coal to Newcastle…
A Modest Idea:
UK Retirees need to submit FOIA requests for copies of the email and budget of various government agencies. The resultant boxes of paper ought to make a winters worth of nice fires. 😉
Might I suggest starting with the ministries that run the Met Office and the green police?
Hyper-thermania (08:51:16) : Bags of coal… yes, we did try using pipelines once, but the lumps kept getting stuck.
You laugh, yet… The town of Laughlin Nevada has it’s own little coal fired power plant (being in the middle of nowhere) fed via a coal pipeline. It come in as a slurry in water. Coal pipelines are fairly common… but the diameter is probably a bit too big for a single home.
E.M.Smith (02:08:09) :
“….Under the old USSR they found pig farmers feeding bread to pigs, since it was subsidised to cheaper than grain…
Coal in the USA runs about $20 to $50 a TON last time I looked. (But in some places is as low as $12 / TON in some years).
So whenever you distort prices artificially, you get bizarre results like burning books or running cars on corn…
When will folks learn that the laws of economics are just as immutable as the laws of physics?
@Roy:
Per the search function in my browser, first use of “fireplace” is in your comment, not the article. The article does say a large book can last all night. That does not happen in an open fireplace, but does in a very efficient wood stove.
My conclusion: They are using wood stoves, not fireplaces, and you have leapt off a cliff of conclusion…
Save The Books, send coal to Newcastle…”
I hate to say this but I feed our goats and sheep bread here in the USA because it is cheaper than grain. There is a waiting list at the bread store for “day old” bread. I imagine the Russians were using fresh bread though. (Corn and other grains are produced at below production costs in the USA thanks to tax subsidies according to one PEW report)
I also think the Brits use coal stoves and not the wood stoves we have here in the USA. If I recall correctly, we were warned NOT to burn coal in our new wood stove. I mention this because I think specially built coals stoves would handle slow burning fuel like coal and books more easily. Perhaps our friends in the UK could comment.
If this weather continues for a few more weeks, it will badly damage most (?) UK vineyards. Perhaps so much that we won’t hear more about them in the future from the warmists.
From yesterday’s browsing France’s public debt for 2009 75% of GDP, Germany 78%, Greece 120%.
Because the Fed is trading short term Treasuries for longer term commercial paper and banks are buying equities on margin we now see interests rates starting to climb before the support ends! Treasuries are already underperforming.
China warned after Copenhagen that there is not enough money in the world to support a doubling of US debt, i.e., this year followed by last.
The end is met. Hyperstagflation and Near-eastern conflagration in 2010.
Pensioners to sell carbon credits.
Pensioners not using heating energy they intended to use (if they could afford it) should be able to sell the carbon equivalets as carbon credits under Kyoto protocol, no? Perhaps a pensioner association should present a class action claim.
The first time I visited London, on our honeymoon, was in 1995. My wife and I both being bibliophiles, we of course visited Charing Cross Rd, the famous London bookstore area. We were apalled to find shops selling 200 yr old books *by the yard* at negligible prices for interior decorating purposes.
The Brits have *a lot* of old books. . . tho keep this up for awhile and they won’t. I’m still apalled, particularly knowing how often used bookstores can have some real valuable gems mispriced due to ignorance.
“Gail Combs (02:50:44) :
I also think the Brits use coal stoves and not the wood stoves we have here in the USA. If I recall correctly, we were warned NOT to burn coal in our new wood stove. I mention this because I think specially built coals stoves would handle slow burning fuel like coal and books more easily. Perhaps our friends in the UK could comment.”
Oh dear, you make us Brits sound so backward, so Dickensian.
Speaking for my small circle of aquaintances/friends etc, a lot of people have open fires and mostly burn wood or they have woodburning stoves which are very popular now. I don’t know many people who have coal burning stoves but I am sure there must be plenty. We had solid fuel central heating when we bought this house and, as husband was away a lot, I was the idiot lugging the coal in and emptying the ashes – that was 24 years ago.
However, I live in a village with a lot of social housing and I see the coal lorry visiting once a week delivering small quantities of coal. Electricity is expensive, as is oil, we have no mains gas, and it is cheaper to burn a bit of coal in an open fire to keep the main room warm. However, I am sure the price paid for small quantities of coal is high compared with one large delivery to see you through the season but if you are on a low wage you can’t afford to buy a large delivery. It’s the same with all products; buy in bulk and it’s cheaper but you can’t do that if you’re a low paid worker (or unemployed) and so you are caught in the poverty trap even more.
(And, no, I don’t read The Guardian. I read the Telegraph but being a conservative doesn’t stop you seeing the injustices and inequities in this world.)
“Britain braced for heaviest snowfall in 50 years”:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/6937854/Britain-braced-for-heaviest-snowfall-in-50-years.html
I know its just weather but it’s nice to see some of the MSM deciding to jump ship:
“SNOW CHAOS: AND THEY STILL CLAIM IT’S GLOBAL WARMING”
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/149966/Snow-chaos-And-they-still-claim-it-s-global-warming
photon without a Higgs (20:47:05) :
oldgifford (07:53:24) :
the 36,700 old people
Do you have the link or the source for this. I really want to know it.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/deaths1109.pdf
Excess winter mortality
highest since 1999/2000
There were an estimated 36,700 excess winter deaths in England
and Wales in 2008/9, an increase of 49 per cent on the previous
year, according to provisional estimates published today by the
Office for National Statistics. This is the highest number since
1999/2000.
The excess winter mortality (EWM) index is calculated so that
comparisons can be made between sexes, age groups and regions,
and is calculated as the number of excess winter deaths divided by
the average non-winter deaths, expressed as a percentage.
The greatest numbers of excess deaths occurred in people aged
over 85. Continuing recent trends, women accounted for the highest
number of excess winter deaths. There are more women aged over
85 than men, which explains the majority of the higher number of
excess winter deaths seen in women.
Why don’t the Met Office just toss a coin? You see they will always want to forecast warming until they stick their heads out the window. If their models forecast some cooling then there must be something wrong with the models. These people are lost in propaganda and can’t see where the climate is headed. :o)
25 September 2008
The Met Office forecast for the coming winter suggests it is, once again, likely to be milder than average. It is also likely that the coming winter will be drier than last year.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2008/pr20080925.html
25 Feb 2009
Coldest winter for a decade – Met Office
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2009/pr20090225.html
—–
30 April 2009
The coming summer is ‘odds on for a barbecue summer‘, according to long-range forecasts
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2009/pr20090430.html
Met Office cools summer forecast
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8173533.stm
—-
Met Office – 5 January 2010
The current cold weather started in mid December and it has been the most prolonged spell of freezing conditions across the UK since December 1981.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2010/pr20100105.html
Oh, and I forgot to insert their mild to normal winter forecast for 2009/2010.
The Gore statue of him as a block of ice with hot air pouring out of his mouth, would not go over so well for these people.
Local businessmen Craig Compeau and Rudy Gavora contracted the piece from award-winning sculptor Steve Dean and say they’ll keep erecting one each winter until Gore accepts an invitation to discuss the global warming issue in Fairbanks.
EU and UK politicians are sold on renewables – its their contribution to saving the world. There has been a continuing investment in wind energy which is supported by enormous subsidies paid through electricity prices. This subvention has to be supported by consumers including pensioners so burning books is one solution.
No one has seen a wind turbine moving for weeks and this is the time of peak demand. Of course the lack of wind is normal at this time of the year something that our political betters do seem to be aware of.
Perhaps a good dose of global warming is just what we need (never mind warmer weather) as well as getting rid of these political numpties.
Looks like the Metro have the bit between the teeth (cartoon on LHS)
BBC presenter Andrew Neil is due to interview the head of the Met Office, according to his blog the interview is today, but I think it will be broadcast on Thursday 7th.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/
If anyone has the ability to record & upload it, then I think the “wider community” might be interested in seeing the vociferous sceptic take on the Cheif Executive of “the best geophysical science institute in the world” !
Andrew Neil is a well known sceptic so I don’t expect John Hirst to be caught off guard, but hopefully he will be made to squirm a bit.
Gail Combs (02:50:44) :
I also think the Brits use coal stoves and not the wood stoves we have here in the USA.
But mostly we burn gas in central heating systems.
The newer stoves that I have seen are usually multi fuel. There are an awful lot of rules, especially in densely populated areas, regarding what you can burn. During weather like this (cold and still) just going back a few decades smog was a big killer.
I understand that it has been experimentally determined that one gets more BTUs per pound out of ‘Earth in the Balance’ and ‘Our Choice: A Plan to Solve the Climate Crisis’ than any other books…..