I don’ t know what sort of world NYT reporters live in, but I am now convinced that some like Paul Krugman have no clue about the real world people live in elsewhere.
‘This Week” with George Stephanopoulos debates ClimateGate – more here
Noel Sheppard over at Newsbusters provides some video and transcript of a debate between Paul Krugman of the NYT and Washington Post columnist George Will.
When I read what Paul Krugman said, I laughed out loud. He’s truly clueless.
Here’s the context:
WILL: Speaking of the marketplace, the biggest industry in the world right now may be fighting climate change. There are billions, trillions of dollars on the table, and when you say, well, they are academics and they are scientists and they talk in funny ways — academics are human beings, and the enormous incentive to get on the bandwagon on global warming, the financial incentive, the market driving this, is huge.
KRUGMAN: There is tremendously more money in being a skeptic than there is in being a supporter.
WILL: Hardly.
KRUGMAN: It’s so much easier, come on. You got the energy industry’s behind it. There are 20 times as many believers as there are skeptics in the scientific community. They get almost equal time in the media.
(CROSSTALK)
WILL: Is there a larger venture capital firm in this country than the Energy Department of this government, which right now is sending out billions and billions of dollars in speculation on green energy?
Noel Sheppard writes:
Skeptics get almost equal time in the media? Yeah, that’s why this appears to be the first time ABC addressed this ClimateGate issue.
As for there being more money in being a skeptic than there is in supporting this myth, the facts say otherwise.
The Science and Public Policy Institute issued a report on the money involved in funding the global warming debate in August concluding, “Over the last two decades, US taxpayers have subsidized the American climate change industry to the tune of $79 billion.”
By contrast, the same study found that the media bogeyman “Exxon Mobil gave a mere $23 million, spread over ten years, to climate sceptics.”
See the video and transcript at Newsbusters
UPDATE: Professor Don Easterbrook left this comment on the ABC news site:
I’ve spent 4 decades studying global climate change and as a scientist I am appalled at Krugman’s cavalier shrugging off the Hadley email scandal as ‘just the way scientists talk among themselves.’ That’s like saying it’s alright for politicians to be corrupt because that’s the way they are. Legitimate scientists do not doctor data, delete data they don’t like, hide data they don’t want seen, hijack the peer review process, personally attack other scientists whose views differ from theirs, send fraudulent data to the IPCC that is used to perpetuate the greatest hoax in the history science, provide false data to further legislation on climate change that will result in huge profits for corrupt lobbyists and politicians, and tell outright lies about scientific data.
Posted by: Don Easterbrook | Nov 29, 2009 1:57:05 PM
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You could even get one of these fancy new website things and let everyone know what you think. Hell one day maybe somebody will post a link to a bunch of incriminating files on your site and then you could really go to town.
He’s counting layman sceptics too you see… all them carbon offsets are expensive… whereas I pay nothing.
The leaker has been dubbed “Deep Climate” over at
American Thinker
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/cru_emails_were_leaked_before.html
I completely agree with smart versus stupid. People become smart in many different ways, some through experience, some through education, and some are just plain born that way. But you can’t fix stupid. And my, haven’t we had our fair share of stupid in office over the past few decades? I unfortunately confess that I voted for Obama. Had I been given a do-over with the same slate of choices my vote would have been:
No. Just. No.
Audit the Fed: Bernanke and the Bankers Are Running Scared
[SNIP. People, please, OH, PLEASE do the international banking conspiracy thread over at internationalbankingconspiracy.com. WUWT is for talkin’ ’bout the weather. I am not famous for being a topic cop, but if I see the words “international” and “banking” within three words of each other one more time I shall run shrieking into the night. ~ Evan]
Krugman is the most strident advocate of Keynesian economics, he is a complete FOOL.
If you wish to see the “emperor with no clothes” compare Keynesian economics with the Austrian School, 90% of economists are Keynesians and if such a large proportion of economic “scientists” and “scholars” could delude themselves into believing and advocating such utter claptrap and nonsense I see no reason why climate “scientists” and “scholars” could not be engaging themselves in their own delusions in regard to climate science and the theory of man made global warming.
Yes climate science is complex but so to are financial markets and economics and if some of the brightest minds in the world can get things so utterly wrong on Wall Street who can say they are not getting it wrong at Hadley and Nasa and in the climate science community.
Hey Krugman, Are all of the scientists below flying around on their private jets and living in mansions on their skeptic mullah? Please!
I see I am not alone in questioning the scientific data. Please see below:
“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” – Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.
“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical…The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” – Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”
Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” – UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.
“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” – Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.
“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” – Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.
“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” – Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.
“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC “are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” – Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico
“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” – U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.
“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.
“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri’s asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it’s hard to remain quiet.” – Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society’s Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.
“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.
“I am convinced that the current alarm over carbon dioxide is mistaken…Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science.” – Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, who has published over 200 scientific papers, and is a fellow of the American Physical Society, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the National Academy of Sciences.
“Nature’s regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr. Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.
“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?” – Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.
“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” – Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.
“The quantity of CO2 we produce is insignificant in terms of the natural circulation between air, water and soil… I am doing a detailed assessment of the UN IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science.” – South Afican Nuclear Physicist and Chemical Engineer Dr. Philip Lloyd, a UN IPCC co-coordinating lead author who has authored over 150 refereed publications.
“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” – Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.
“All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.” – Geophysicist Dr. Phil Chapman, an astronautical engineer and former NASA astronaut, served as staff physicist at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” – Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.
“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” – Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.
“The [global warming] scaremongering has its justification in the fact that it is something that generates funds.” – Award-winning Paleontologist Dr. Eduardo Tonni, of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata
“Whatever the weather, it’s not being caused by global warming. If anything, the climate may be starting into a cooling period.” Atmospheric scientist Dr. Art V. Douglas, former Chair of the Atmospheric Sciences Department at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska, and is the author of numerous papers for peer-reviewed publications.
“But there is no falsifiable scientific basis whatever to assert this warming is caused by human-produced greenhouse gasses because current physical theory is too grossly inadequate to establish any cause at all.” – Chemist Dr. Patrick Frank, who has authored more than 50 peer-reviewed articles.
“The ‘global warming scare’ is being used as a political tool to increase government control over American lives, incomes and decision making. It has no place in the Society’s activities.” – Award-Winning NASA Astronaut/Geologist and Moonwalker Jack Schmitt who flew on the Apollo 17 mission and formerly of the Norwegian Geological Survey and for the U.S. Geological Survey.
“Earth has cooled since 1998 in defiance of the predictions by the UN-IPCC….The global temperature for 2007 was the coldest in a decade and the coldest of the millennium…which is why ‘global warming’ is now called ‘climate change.’” – Climatologist Dr. Richard Keen of the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences at the University of Colorado.
“I have yet to see credible proof of carbon dioxide driving climate change, yet alone man-made CO2 driving it. The atmospheric hot-spot is missing and the ice core data refute this. When will we collectively awake from this deceptive delusion?” – Dr. G LeBlanc Smith, a retired Principal Research Scientist with Australia’s CSIRO.
Pamela Gray: “I unfortunately confess that I voted for Obama.”
That’s OK Pamela….I’ll take your joie de vivre any day…I don’t care who you voted for.
And I unfortunately, before that…I confess…I voted for Bush….both times. 🙁
Hey what can I say….the weighing of the lesser of two evils….however fallible that litmus test may be….
Now that we got our confessions out of the way and out of the closet (LOL)…it is time for us to focus on the real enemy to us all.
We know who and what they are.
WE should be running the world, not them.
They are dumb…and the journalists (like Krugman) are pathetically worse.
DUHHHHH.
No wonder the world is falling apart.
It is time to reverse the specific homo sapien anomaly where stupid people are rewarded, as long as they are in power.
NO. It should not be that way.
Survival of the fittest…as it has done with every other organism of note on this planet…must take hold….and I (and many of you as well) would WELCOME that day!!
No more stupid people calling the shots.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
Thanks Evan,
ROTFLMAO over your snip comment.
Jut thought I could sneak one by you, but I know there are plenty of other forums for that subject so the snip is OK with me. Thanks for the laugh.
[‘salright ~ E]
“Bat2b, That BS about the global depression of the ’30s leading to WWII is a crock. “ Robert of Canada
Another major reason for WWII was the unjust peace forced on the Germans after the stalemate was broken by the US entering the War on the side of England and France. The US involvement was financed by the Fed. Without that involvement, the most likely outcome would have been an honorable peace.
Central banks are often the mechanism for financing wars via an “inflation tax”.
The Fed is thus responsible for TWO major causes of WWII. I would not rule out other causes either.
Michelle gets the novel-within-a-blog award. Good stuff though
From the ABC site :
Global warming may or may not be happening but as we now know, all that’s certain about global warming, is that it is definitely man-made.
Made up by the huge UN sponsored climatic research industry, to justify its own existence.
Shameful.
Fred from Canuckistan . . . (15:20:46) :
Take out the ‘probably’ from your postand you have got it spot on.
Some think Krugman is clueless. I think he’s a well paid lobyist for Hack & Trade. Smart people may come accross as being clueless but it’s usually intentional.
This is how the BBC trains its people to dismiss climate change “deniers” – they send people on propaganda courses run by a fanatical greenie PR outfit (with offices in NY and London) called Futerra: http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/2009/11/smoking-gun-part2.html#comments
and this is the propaganda manual: http://www.futerra.co.uk/downloads/NewRules:NewGame.pdf
The UK media are doing their hardest to ignore this and hope that it will go away. So claiming equal media coverage, from a UK perspective, is just not true.
– : Commonwealth leaders back climate change fund : –
Commonwealth leaders have backed a multi-billion-dollar plan to help developing nations to deal with climate change and cut greenhouse gases.
The fund, proposed by UK and French leaders at the Commonwealth summit on Friday, would start next year and build to $10bn annually by 2012.
Many Commonwealth members are island states threatened by rising sea levels.
Leaders also called for the strongest possible outcome at next month’s climate change summit in Copenhagen.
They unanimously agreed to seek a legally binding international agreement, but accepted that “a full legally binding outcome” might have to wait to 2010.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8384523.stm
>>And You STILL have Global warming adverts,
>>courtesy of Google and Al gore on this website
And yesterday, on BBC World, we had the European Space Agency (ESA) advertising AGW during prime-time. As an advert, not a news item. Tell, me Mr Watts, how much ESA funding does WUWT get??
.
I thought I’d heard it all, but this one is beyond belief.
– : Climate ‘is a major cause’ of conflict in Africa : –
Climate has been a major driver of armed conflict in Africa, research shows – and future warming is likely to increase the number of deaths from war.
US researchers found that across the continent, conflict was about 50% more likely in unusually warm years.
More
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8375949.stm
“..economies of scale in international trade”
I wonder if he imagined the scenario of the “too big too fail” companies asking for a taxpayer bailout.
Krugman recently said…”As I see it, the economics profession went astray because economists, as a group, mistook beauty, clad in impressive-looking mathematics, for truth.” He’d do well to learn from his own words. There is “correct” and there is “politically correct”. The first comes from looking at the facts and the second relies only on self-righteous hypocrisy.
The bottom line is, if the data was massaged to create the storyline then the hypothesis falls apart and all the rest is just money-grubbing politics.
>>Stop…..please STOP turning into a left/right thing.
>>It ain’t.
>>Its about truth.
You might think that something like climate would be non-political partisan, but it isn’t. It is rapidly becoming a left/right issue, and future elections may well intensify that divide.
Why?
My guess, is that more liberals are urban professionals and civil servants, with no connection to the real world. While more conservatives live in the countryside or have real businesses to run (large or small).
Thus more liberals are dreamers and idealists, who would love to take us back to some rose-tinted pre-industrial utopia. Whereas more conservatives have enough experience of the real world to realise that the Medieval period was dominated by famine, plague, ill-health, miserable living conditions, back-breaking manual labour, and short life-spans.
That’s my guess.
P.S.
UK Conservatives run rural England, while Labour rules the inner cities. The UK Labour Party is now a liberal party of champagne socialists, rather than a party of the working classes.
.
Another “inside job”.
From my own tests, I conclude that there is no doubt that Google has been manipulating the results from searches for “Global Warming” and other related search strings. The changes in results, sometimes in minutes, has happened so fast, and to so many search strings, that it can only be explained by someone or maybe a group of insiders at Google supporting the AGW agenda.
Not enough green for the green cause?! What about Exelon, Duke Energy, BP Amoco, Shell, Conoco Philips (to name a few)?! Then you have the non-energy sector companies… General Electric, Dow Chemical, GM, Ford, Caterpillar, John Deere, Alcoa, SC Johnson, Levi Straus, Pepsico, Apple…
That’s not even a complete list, and is just off the top of my head. Needless to say, those aren’t small, unknown names. Some have been greenifying well before the guv’ment began the great hand-out orgy, but all have been doing so for the last decade, in one form or another, both quietly and vocally alike. The past three years especially, though, not a day has gone by where I haven’t had to put up with the empty and meaningless boasting of one company or other “going (for all that “free”) green”!
Of course, it WOULD be some pip-squeak from the NYT that is conveniently unaware of the massive amount of capital that has been thrown into this forced regression of civilization…
Off-topic, I know, but I couldn’t help a smile at today’s Guardian page.
Near the top was this link
* EU accused of putting climate talks at risk
This was followed lower down by
* UK to face more rain and freezing cold
Now where’s all that global warming I was promised?
L . Gardy LaRoche (20:55:50) :
The leaker has been dubbed “Deep Climate” over at
American Thinker
I doubt that will please the warmist who goes by the same name on CA and other sites.
Lol.
Anyway, where are the warmists? They seem to be very quiet around here lately.