The Delayer in Chief? – Obama backs Copenhagen postponement

Obama makes 2010 the Kyoto Elections:
http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTA4NjhiMDY4NDk0ZDE3ZTNkNGM1ODgxMWM1OTlkYWM=

Doug:
I don’t agree that the green economy is a Ponzi scheme, at least not necessarily. We are still running most of our cars on 130-year old technology. What is the efficiency of the typical gasoline engine? 20%? 25%? I don’t buy global warming, but I do see that there is a lot of opportunity in for instance transforming the way we move around.
Many of our daily practices in industry and infrastructure also are wasteful. There will be a retooling and creation of new technologies. Those technologies are important for continued growth and progress. We can do things better than we do today, and we all know we will. Private industry plays a part, and so does government. Ask any scientist. Ask anyone working on fusion. If we want to keep living well we have to become the leaders in these technologies. Innovate is what this country does after all. To do so will require a national effort: industry, education, publicly funded research, the whole deal.
Tom in Texas:
OK, you asked. When people start calling Barack Obama a communist. That is wrong on the facts. I assume that to come from a rabidly conservative point of view. I accept that every Administration, also the previous one, tries hard to do what is best for the country, even if I disagree violently with the policies. You have to give them that much, and then you can object.
Thomas:
I get called a flat earther and an oil industry crony with regularity on Huffpo, where I also comment now and then. I am actually pretty shocked at the vehemence you meet when you take an honest stand as best you can. I can’t speak for them. You’re a big boy, you tell’em. And don’t tell me what to do, by the way, that’s just annoying. Apart from that the Bush Administration presided over the greatest expansion of the Federal Government in modern history, so take it up with them.
Brian Flynn:
It doesn’t sound like much, but hysteria dies down in the end, especially when people of reason keep their reason, and keep repeating the truth until it is heard. As a matter of fact, this isn’t even the worst we have seen in recent memory. Eugenics was far scarier stuff, and led to mass graves. Lobotomy destroyed the lives of large numbers of people. Tinkers (or travelers) were sterilized in Norway until the late 70s as a covert policy, part of the eugenics movement. This AGW rubbish shall pass. I think some here already see the signs of that, although it will take a concerted effort by serious-minded scientists to make it so. After that people can try to learn what is actually going on in the climate system. It is a very important field with many benefits for the entire world population.
I don’t think anyone knows at this point how much AGW is really out there, but I think we know enough to say that it can’t be much. What we can be quite sure about is that the model-based predictions are baseless, and that is the big shiny object that is being dangled in front of people right now.

Glenn,
Do you seriously not understand what I mean when I say the “wrong” side?
As a good liberal Democrat (pro choice, pro universal health care, tax the rich, etc.) I am supposed to buy into AGW alarmism. I tell anyone willing to listen that they are wrong. I believe the environmental movement and political institutions are damaging their credibility to an alarming degree; credibility that is needed to engage people in actual environmental issues, the most important of which I believe to be ocean fisheries management. This is one area where we need transnational solutions. We know the resource is in serious trouble, but who wants to think about fish when they can think about polar bears? People in developing countries do, it’s over 50% of their protein supply.

E.M. Smith:
The comment on the Bush Administration was a response to people blaming Obama for the alarmism. They are not helping that’s for sure, I’m not saying they are. I was implying that it is in the interest of everyone who wants to bring people back to reality to keep the politics out of it, because you can’t win when you are shouting across a divide. I read a piece today in a Norwegian newspaper, and it was the same sensationalist and completely unfounded predictions of floods, droughts, crop failures and sea level rise you’ve seen a hundred times. I pointed that out with as many facts as I can, and was pretty pleased to see that most other comments were also critical.
Gandhi once said that “there is very little you can do, but it is very important that you do it.” I agree with that, so I take the trouble of speaking up over and over again. It’s all I can do, but I do it.

E.M.Smith (22:14:23) :
I usually try to access where a person is coming from. I saw quickly a couple of weeks a ago that Tor Hansson is concerned with far left politics.

This is amazing, its turning into Tamino, complete with ad hominem attacks and the conflation of views about climate science with all kinds of views which have no logical relationship to it, mixed in with large spoonfuls of paranoia. Here is a classic example of that sort of stuff:
“Tell your buddies to debate the science and piss off with the moon landing/holocaust denial associations with catastrophic AGW skepticism”
His buddies? [snip] is this stuff? And we have:
“Tor Hansson is concerned with far left politics.”
Apparently because he is what we used to call a Kennedy Democrat? That is not mainstream??
Wake up. Reasonable and well intentioned people may vote either Democrat or Republican. Reasonable and well intentioned people may take either side of the debate about the bailouts. The objection to the bailouts is not, in informed circles, that it is somehow socialistic, it is that it is ineffective except as a vast transfer of wealth from the relatively less well off to the already hugely rich. Folks, wake up again, that is not socialism! The counter argument is that the less well off would have suffered more had there not been bailouts.
Whichever view you take on these things, you may be skeptical about global warming, or convinced of it. One is a judgment on policy and what is likely to be effective for the country, the other is a conclusion on a scientific hypothesis.
What I feared would happen is happening. The blog is becoming totally dominated by obsessives who seem to have little interest in climate, but who really really like airing their obsessions in a sort of echo chamber.
The next poster will say in reply, if you don’t like it don’t read it, you commie fellowtraveller. No, if you are not interested in climate, but just interested in ranting, stop posting. I do not want to lose what used to be a decent and informative climate blog to the self indulgent ravings of a bunch of tinfoil hats! We’ve lost RC on the other side of the debate like this for the same reason.
Go read denialdepot, that is where you are all taking this. Its profoundly ugly, but worse, it has nothing to do with climate science and everything to do with airing ones social dysfunction. And yes, we will stop reading. Is that what you want?

B. H. Obama has too many ties to socialism, extremism and alarmism than I wish to count.
If anyone wishes to think that he is a moderate, then our definitions of it must be deeply askew.
Our current administration and the lobbyists that support it, want to wrest control away from the fossil fuel industries and put that control in the hands of environmentalists.
In order to pay for Obama Care, control of the CO2 market is tantamount. Destroying the housing market helped set up this whole charade. Banks fell from the fallout. Obama is our savior through socialized medicine and and the envirofreaks reap the rewards through Cap-n-Tax. They greatly helped his campaign through manipulating MSM . They deserve the spoils of war.
It is that simple.
Everything was in play.
Except the truth.
If Man’s contribution to rising CO2 isn’t shown to cause climate change and the world isn’t goin to burn up from its causes, this whole orchestration falls down faster that a one-legged man in a wind storm.
The message is getting out.
The growing number of people, skeptical of AGW, are making themselves heard. They also have truth and science to back them up.
I’d like to have more support from fossil fuel companies, but envirofreaks would consider the movement tainted. I’d like to see more support from MSM, but envirofreaks fund them.
To thwart socialism and stop the envirofreaks from destroying our economy, we must elect officials into office that oppose Obama and his minions.
It is the only way out of this nightmare.

http://www.angelnexus.com/o/web/17620

If it is as simple as some here suggest – i.e. science, political allegiance, & environmental views must be strictly confounded (in the name of hyperpartisanship, presumably) – then I draw 3 conclusions:
1) Democracy is failing.
2) Science is failing.
3) Environmentalism is failing.
…but note my use of the word “if”.
No need for alarmism – it just leads to instability.
This discussion on politics has been an interesting aside. Thanks to all who have contributed.

Tor Hansson Stated:
“OK, you asked. When people start calling Barack Obama a communist. That is wrong on the facts. I assume that to come from a rabidly conservative point of view. I accept that every Administration, also the previous one, tries hard to do what is best for the country, even if I disagree violently with the policies. You have to give them that much, and then you can object.”
WRONG Politics is about Money period.
Tor, politicians are NOT necessarily interested in the welfare of their people. This goes not just for the USA but for the EU, Canada & Australia too. Take a look at the history of the Federal Reserve or other Central Banking schemes. Central Banking, with its fiat money is designed to do three things. First, allow the government to tax citizens without their knowledge and consent (inflation); second, move wealth (not money) from the citizens into the pockets of the bankers; third allow Bankers to create boom and bust cycles they can use in consolidating power and wealth.
Read:
A PRIMER ON MONEY: Congressional COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND CURRENCY (130 pgs well written)
http://famguardian.org/Subjects/MoneyBanking/Money/patman-primer-on-money.pdf
A Talk by G. Edward Griffin: Author of The Creature from Jekyll Island (37 screens well written – easy read) http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
SECRETS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE (190 pgs gives a lot of history including the depression, Written by Eustace Mullins member of the staff of the Library of Congress)
It is interesting that Henry A. Waxman., Author of Cap and Trade is also author of a “Food Safety Bill” What is the Committee on Energy and Commerce doing authoring a food bill???
Food is the subject that convinced me US politicians are not concerned with the welfare of US citizens. Food safety legislation was changed for the benefit of the large corporations in 1995 (WTO) and in 1996 (international HACCP regs). Since then the USDA, the media, and Congress (two Congressional investigations) have covered up the real cause of food related deaths and illness in the USA.
Bill Marler products liability attorney wrote an article One E. coli O157:H7 Outbreak I Think I could have Prevented. This is a story that was censored by the owner of a big New York Magazine according to a wittness interviewed by a reporter from the Magazine. http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/07/articles/lawyer-oped/one-e-coli-o157h7-outbreak-i-think-i-could-have-prevented/
This testimony by Mr. Stan Painter, Chairman, National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals was ignored by Congress: (“There seems to be too much reliance on an honor system for the industry to police itself. While the USDA investigation is still on going at Hallmark/Westland, a couple of facts have emerged that point to a system that can be gamed by those who want to break the law. It [HACCP] shifted the responsibility for food safety over to the companies.” )
http://domesticpolicy.oversight.house.gov/documents/20080418113258.pdf
Legislators overlook serious flaw in USDA’s HACCP food-safety … http://www.mfu.org/node/276
HISTORY:
History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job (well documented) http://www.google.com/search?q=history+haccp+and+food&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
The WTO and the Politics of GMO (basic history of the World Trade Organization’s Agreement on Ag) http://www.publiceyeonscience.ch/images/the_wto_and_the_politics_of_gmo.doc
The most frightening thing to me is the guy who wrote the WTO Agreement on Ag. Dan Amstutz, VP of Cargill, also wrote the 1996 Farm bill that got rid of Stock piling surplus grain. This means we are one bad harvest, Gleissberg minimum??, away from Famine.
The following quotes show the level of greed and concern for other humans by those influencing and in many cases WRITING our Food laws in the USA:
“In summary, we have record low grain inventories globally as we move into a new crop year. We have demand growing strongly. Which means that going forward even small crop failures are going to drive grain prices to record levels. As an investor, we continue to find these long term trends…very attractive.” Food shortfalls predicted: 2008 http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dancy/2008/0104.html
“Recently there have been increased calls for the development of a U.S. or international grain reserve to provide priority access to food supplies for Humanitarian needs. The National Grain and Feed Association (NGFA) and the North American Export Grain Association (NAEGA) strongly advise against this concept..Stock reserves have a documented depressing effect on prices… and resulted in less aggressive market bidding for the grains.” July 22, 2008 letter to President Bush http://www.naega.org/images/pdf/grain_reserves_for_food_aid.pdf
As I said greed is driving Politics and we all must be aware of this fact.