During a Wednesday morning interview with statewide radio talk show host Aaron Flint on “Voices of Montana,” Dr. Steve Running said any climate change solution needs to involve all nations.
“We have to have all the major nations in agreement on future progress,” said Running.
Running is a co-author of the Nobel Prize winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and founder of the Climate Change Studies program at the University of Montana.
He added, “If the US passed a cap and trade and other countries did not, it wouldn’t work. It would ruin the US economy and it wouldn’t save the climate either. So this is a global issue, the global climate statistics are global in nature, global carbon emissions are global in nature, and we really have to have an international consensus of what to do. That is going to stretch our international diplomacy to its limit, there’s no doubt about that.”
Nonetheless, Running called on the United States to show leadership on the issue of addressing climate change, saying other countries will follow suit.
“Voices of Montana” is a Northern News Network talk show that airs statewide on more than a dozen radio stations each weekday morning.
CLICK TO LISTEN: Dr. Running on Cap and Trade legislation
It is often stated by politicians that “if we lead, the other will follow”. This has been stated by both the Australian Government and the US who are both pushing Cap & Trace/ETS/CPRS or some other acronym for curtailing development.
There are many things done first by governments that other countries do not copy. By what authority can our governments claim that being an early adopter in the AGW case will lead to other following in their footsteps?
I fear that Australia and the US may look back after this debacle has calmed down and only see their own footsteps and no others.
“”” Smokey (11:35:55) :
It should be kept in mind that the U.S. Senate’s 95 – 0 vote against Kyoto was based on the objection that the rules would not apply equally to every country.
If the Senate were to vote for a treaty or any other agreement that gives other countries a free pass to pollute, while hobbling the ultra-clean U.S., then the Senate would be representing the citizens of those other countries over the citizens of the U.S.
They should hear from us: click.
Ask them: who do they represent? “””
To follow up on your point Smokey; if the US Senate voted 95 to zip to not endorse Al Gore’s signing of the Kyoto treaty; would incoming President George Bush be wise to press for US agreement to abide by Kyoto, given such total political opposition to that position, or did the President do the right thing by taking that not so subtle hint from the US Senate; and by inference from the US people to stay away from such an idiotic proposal.
Enquiring minds want to know; has Obama come out in favor of ratifying Kyoto yet ?
“”” jlc (11:00:42) :
George E. Smith (09:39:41) :
Of course he’s a “nice guy”.
They all are.
Thst doesn’t mean that they are not naive, misled, ignorant, stupid, confused, bewildered, etc. “””
Well jlc, the context in which I ran into Professor Running was in relation to a highly publicised paper issued by a couple of groups of rocket scientists; one at Stanford University, and the eother At the Lawrence Livermore National Lavatory; home of Energy Secretary Steven Nobel Prize Chu.
These two eminent groups issued a story that said that arboreal forests were a global warming cause, because they displace what would otherwise be snow fields; that raise the albedo of the earth; whereas arboreal forests look rather black to incoming solar energy (by design of the pine tree morphology). Ergo arboral forest are bad. This story made newspaper front page headlines, sometime in the last 48 months.
Well in the first place, there is a reason for all the snow falling in those regions. It has some relationship to the fact that there is very little solar energy falling there anyway, so what albedo contribution there is from that snow is highly debatable. In any case snow that is more than about 24 hours old just isn’t as reflective as you would think; not much better than grass.
Then there is the additional fact that the solar energy that is efficiently captured by those conical forests that look just like an anechoic chamber; generally is combined with CO2, to both remove said CO2, and replace it with a substance commonly referred to in the trade as “wood”. This prevents it being turned into waste “heat”
This silliness on the part of these two august research establishments was called to task (publicly) by that very Professor Running in his guise as a Professor of Forestry or some such at the U of Montana.
As a result (besides getting my attention), Running caused these two dummy factories to have to recall their silliness.
And yes he is still a nice guy; and yes, he is somewhat astray himself; but probably salvageable.
The peer pressure in Academia must be hard to resist, as it seems that too many emigres from those institutions immediately get religion and recant once they escape from that tyrany of the publish or perish envirinment.
George E. Smith (14:49:09) :
You forgot that there’s also an hygrometer at each & every point, so the total energy is also known. In fact, only Gaia knows the exact chemical composition of the atmosphere & every part of the ocean & land mass..
DaveE.
from the picture of Mr. Renning I can see his already dressed for the lifestyle of 1855 when the horse was the our primary means of transport.
I am quite sure he did not read this article:
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3541/Skeptical-UN-IPCC-Scientist-The-use-of-fossil-fuels-has-done-more-to-benefit-human-kind-than-anything-else-since-the-invention-of-agriculture
To “save the climate,” professor Running?
It must be something in the water.
Pedantic, I know, but one has to try one’s best…
“bell weather” should read “bell wether” which is a castrated ram, usually older than the rest of the flock, which knows its way around its “patch” and knows the routine. It thus is used to lead the flock and is identified to the shepherd by the bell around its neck. Experiments over the last 100 years or so seem to indicate that the older ewes make better bell wethers, but the shepherds are still considering the results.
Whilst on the subject of animals, has anyone come across any scientific studies of their recent migratory behaviour? My own observations lead me to believe that the swallows and swifts have left England noticeably early and the hedgehogs in my garden have taken up residence in the hog-homes I have constructed and placed around my garden much earlier than hitherto in the last five years.
George E. Smith (14:49:09) :
But Gaia is much more thorough than that crude method. She has a thermometer in each and every single molecule in the whole planet; and she reads them so fast it would make your head spin.
—
Of course, statistical thermodynamics says that “temperature” is not really defined for individual molecules, but rather is a property associated with large collections of atoms and molecules vibrating and (in the case of fluids) colliding with each other. But your point is well taken nonetheless…
I’ve read Running’s article at another Site. He’s “still” thinks AGW is “real” and only that “all” the countries need to be involved to combat AGW. My thought is this, CO2 is “not” the problem. It’s more complex than that, even if ALL the countries were involved! Wow, the United States has to “sacrifice” it’s economy to get other Countries involved to do something that will not make any difference! Our “Dollar” is already devalued to the point of “no return”.
B-b-but, TH, don’t ya know we’ve ALWAYS said Colorado ski seasons and the two square feet outside YOUR window would be the exceptions in a steadily heating world…. !!!! People go skiing in Colorado, we’ve always known that. 😉
Six words to expose the crises:
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/10/six-words-to-expose-the-crisis/
Stephen Brown
“Whilst on the subject of animals, has anyone come across any scientific studies of their recent migratory behaviour?”
Not very scientific, but niether are some of the “science” reports on CAGW I have read lately. I go to Scipps (SIO) nearly every day. I always spend one hour on a bench about 80′ above the ocean. Two weeks ago (about 6 to 7 weeks early) I statrted seeing the gray whales migrating south. I was seeing about 25 an hour.
On the migration of animals bit…
Here in Kabul, Afghanistan the swallows departed about 7 weeks earlier than last year.
And many of the Kuchis (nomadic herders) who wintered in Kabul last year, headed south about three days before our first snowfall in the mountains to the west of town (16 September). Methinks nomadic herders are more in tune with Gaia than geeks sitting in front of computers.
Last year the first snowfall visible from the city occurred on 31 October and the peaks had been snow free from the end of May. This year the last snow didn’t melt until 27 August, so we only had about 20 days without snow on the peaks vs about 150 days last year. Now the snow has worked its way down to the 3000m line…about 2.5 months earlier. It’s going to be a frigging cold winter here this year.
“Nonetheless, Running called on the United States to show leadership on the issue of addressing climate change, saying other countries will follow suit.”
I mean really. How can he possibly know this? He’s chanelling the Chinese dictatorship?
Wishful thinking. Which means it is unscientific.
The Warmers are in disarray. The only reason it’s not commonly understood that they are in disarray is because the press is also in disarray and is becoming increasingly embarrassed at the history of its own coverage on this issue. No one knows what to believe.
Why? Because the science is unsettled and will continue to be unsettled for a long time.
Yep that is very true the minute the environmental police go after me I will be homeless as well and have no roof under my head. I am sick of the fake environmental movements thinking they are helping planet earth when in reality they are helping the elite.
Not sure what you mean by untrustworthy. The Chinese want the same standard of living as you have. They will do whatever they need to do in order to obtain it. You can hardly call them “untrustworthy” because they choose not to follow the West into la la land.
” (…) but not at all inclined to go along with our proposals.
The proposals are delusional. Why would anyone, not part of the delusion, go along. If the West wants to run around naked in the snow with a flower in it’s collective ass I’m sure the Chinese [rest of the world] will worry about our sanity and try to usher us inside but they will not join us.
Well, you’ll be glad to know that the UK public don’t buy this scaremongering.
There’s a poll going on at the Science Museum in London asking the public whether they believe global warming is a problem or not and apparently they don’t think it is. Botanist David Bellamy went in on Wednesday to cast his own vote and got the running state of the poll at that point.
So it seems that, just like Christianity, the number of non-believers who may end up going to church to pay their tithes might be quite high….
The question which remains is: why will they be going to the church in the first place?
We need to first understand the root of the cap & trade scheme…
This isn’t about the environment, it’s about money.
————–
“No Longer Free Goods
The foundation for today’s pollution futures market was laid by policymakers who believed that by extending property rights to environmental goods and making them sellable, new markets would be created.
Instrumental in realizing the potential of pollution futures is Richard Sandor, currently the Chairman and CEO of the Chicago Climate Exchange.
“Air and water are simply no longer the ‘free goods’ that economists once assumed,” Sandor said in a 1992 interview with the Wall Street Journal. “They must be redefined as property rights so they can be efficiently allocated.”
At a 2005 Milken Institute Conference, Sandor said, “The right to use water or air is more valuable than food, and we can use the price system to allocate that right.”
http://www.ejmagazine.com/2006a/futures.html
It is crazy to think that if the US shows leadership, other countries will follow suit. I seem to remember a time not too long ago when the US was being attacked for unilateral action . . . but now it’s ok? It’s not ok and other countries will not follow suit. They have been waiting for a chance to get a leg up on the US, why squander it? Write your legislators and tell them you do not support this disastrous cap and trade legislation at http://tiny.cc/XFyUz.
“”” Frank K. (17:24:57) :
George E. Smith (14:49:09) :
But Gaia is much more thorough than that crude method. She has a thermometer in each and every single molecule in the whole planet; and she reads them so fast it would make your head spin.
–
Of course, statistical thermodynamics says that “temperature” is not really defined for individual molecules, but rather is a property associated with large collections of atoms and molecules vibrating and (in the case of fluids) colliding with each other. But your point is well taken nonetheless… “””
Well Frank, I don’t think the problem is with a definition of temperature; that is quite clear. But in practice, because of the chaotic nature of the intermolecular collisions, which redistribute energy among the molecules, in practice you do have a distribution of energies, and although we can study the statistics of those distributions; we cannot so easily determine the energy of any single molecule; and of couse even if we could, it would immediately change, and according to Heisenberg; even in the attempt to measure it, we would change it.
But of course Gaia does know what each one of those is, and she can correctly calculate the statistically significant summation of all of the components.
But yes it keeps her busy and maybe she is overworked; which is why we try less arudous ways to get close to her real time processing.
Yeah, this figures. I am actually in the climate change studies program, and have had the “honor” of having Dr. Running as my teacher for the introductory class, in the science portion (during which time, you guessed it, the other side was given NO time to voice their opinion). All it has been for the last semester is inane liberal spitting, constantly spinning everything in their favor. You want another great Runningism, as I call them? He said, basically, all people need to make is 20 thousand dollars a year to be happy. That is what he said. You can’t buy a home on that salary. I have to ask, how much does he make a year, cause he seems pretty happy trecking all over the world in those evil carbon-emitting airplanes to compalin to his equally insane collegues about how climate is going to destroy us all!