UPDATE: At first I was concerned about this poll and the language involved. Now from comments I’m seeing a number of people whom aren’t worried and see an opportunity to voice their opinion. I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide if they wish to participate. – Anthony
Wow, just wow. Who would think we’d see this sort of language and lack of sound judgment from a science museum? In the Now playing at a museum near you, the “Day After Tomorrow Map” thread, something interesting was discovered.
Once you click the “count me out” button, you enter a netherworld of governmental lists. The London Science Museum might want to think about redoing this web feature. The images are below, here’s the link.
Okay…now look what happens when you click “COUNT ME OUT”. Yellow highlighter mine.
Not only is this insulting and threatening to the reader, it virtually ensures that all responses logged by the London Science Museum are “COUNT ME IN” if you originally chose to vote otherwise.
Future presentation of results to the government: “The results show overwhelmingly that people agree with us. Hardly anyone chose COUNT ME OUT.
Even with the caveat the list*, how many people would trust it? I wouldn’t. I doubt many people even get to the caveat. The main statement is just too worrisome.
Perhaps the “COUNT ME OUT” respondents get a visit from these chaps? 😉
To be fair, respondents get a similar message if they choose to be counted in.
However, one wonders how many people will respond at all once they see that language.
The Science Museum really ought to pull this feature or redo language in it in my opinion.
h/t to alert WUWT reader coddbotherer
UPDATE: 10/24 @11:30PM
It appears some robovoting hit this poll. Robert Phelan’s letter pretty well sums up my thinking on this issue.
Sirs:
By now you must be aware that your on-line Prove It poll was seriously compromised. I voted “count-me-out” once under my own name, but after the individual who corrupted your poll revealed himself, I tested your polling system with two consecutive “count-me-in” votes, which were both apparently accepted.
Leaving aside my distaste for your support of politicized, Lysenko-style “science”, as both a social scientist and computer systems consultant I respect data and am appalled by the shoddy manner in which your organization collected it. A few suggestions:
1. State clearly the purpose of your poll and exactly which data will be used for that purpose.
2. You stated that you would pass the results to the government:
a. if the results had fairly resulted in a “count-me-out” majority, would those results have been passed on?
b. it would be helpful top explain what you would do with the comments you requested from the “count-me-outs”;
c. since the results were to be passed, presumably, to the UK government, foreigners such as myself should have been excluded from the voting. Checking the IP location of voters should be easy.
3. No one, either inside the UK or outside received the follow up e-mail. The explanation provided about ensuring one vote per person, frankly, makes no sense.
4. Maintaining a confidential list of voter names, e-mail addresses and IP’s to verify non-duplication would be easy. Making the voting a two-step process, where the voter had to respond to a follow-on e-mail would be even more secure.
5. Maintaining a list of non-acceptable names for screening: Joseph Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse-tung and Mickey Mouse all claimed to have voted no, as did Keith Briffa, Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen.
7. Create a display page where interested persons can view the names who have voted. Given the politicized nature of the topic, a unified alphabetical list would be appropriate.
8. Test the security of your poll before putting it on-line. Find a good hacker and pay him only if he succeeds in breaking into your system.
If you people can’t even run an on-line poll, why should anyone consider your opinions on climate? If this poll was so important that you needed two ministers of HMG to introduce it, why didn’t you get it done right?
I intend my suggestions to be helpful; if you find them so then I would be glad to be of further assistance. I am bitterly opposed to the position you have taken on “AGW” but I would not allow that to interfere with my professionalism.
Oh, one last suggestion. Don’t even try to salvage the results of this poll. Wipe them, make the changes I’ve suggested and start again.
Robert E. Phelan
Adjunct Instructor of Sociology
Business Systems and Automation Consultant
A commenter on our site, “lihard” has seemingly confessed to adding a thousand votes via a script. There was a period of about 15 minutes where the count jumped about 1000 votes. It appears “lihard” was at fault as he pre-announced it here in comments. Of course there was little anyone could do about it. I speak for myself and the moderation staff in saying we strongly object and are offended by his ballot stuffing and want to make clear that it is not condoned in any way. Whether or not the poll was put together with apparently no security in place does not justify any kind of dishonest activity.
However, since that burst (if indeed he, lihard, did one) the vote count has steadily risen, I believe those to be valid. If the Science Museum has any logs, they should be able to filter those ~1000 in question out. I hope they do.
I don’t condone ballot stuffing in any form. Unfortunately it can happen when polls like this one don’t appear to have the most basic simplistic security. The interesting thing here is that if anybody wanting to stuff the poll, no matter what side of the argument they are on, could easily have done so. No special skills are needed to boost the counter…just keep clicking the submit button. Any kid can do it.
Perhaps the Science Museum didn’t think of security for cyberspace like they do for their exhibits. The internet is a harsh place and prone to such things. The lack of due diligence for security is as troubling as the language they used which originally caught my attention.
The polls we do here at WUWT don’t suffer from these problems, as they have anti-ballot stuffing security built in courtesy of WordPress. I hope that the Science Museum will upgrade their poll security if they choose to continue with it. Also for the record, you’ll find me logged once in poll, shortly after posting this story on 11/23 approximately 9:30-10AM PST, with my full name and email address given. If anyone from the Science Museum (or the UK government) wishes to contact me, they can use that email address. – Anthony
They are coming to burn your anti-AGW books.
Count me out and count me in have the same language. They are passing along the results to the government. You see that allot in the US.
There’s about to be an economic civil war IMO.
Moveon.org is advocating for boycotting FOX and other nonconformists for Obama and this may expand to a tit for tat boycott surge.
So you can be counted in anonymously but to be counted out you must identify yourself. Smacks of intimidation.
Unless, of course, someone were to visit that site with a phone book from the UK and simply start entering names at random. But that wouldn’t be nice.
They can count me out. Me, my kids and all my relatives and progeny will never visit them until we have a complete turnaround and regime change back to the days of sensability. Want to report something to “government”? Report them that their days are numbered and the gangsters we have in charge will be on the run for life.
Now that I think about it, maybe it isn’t so bad. They only want a name and an email address. That is not enough to identify a person with as many people could share a first/last name. And the “name” could be something like “crosspatch”.
I was London science museum last year, it was fascinating to see the progress of technology starting with atmospheric steam engines to space rockets. Then i got to the end and it was some rubbish displays on climate change, it felt like a step backwards.
Note the results on the page 333 in 234 out, hardly a landslide in favour.
They can have my address. I am counted out. I’ll even burn a tree in sacrifice if they want.
“…(As a) lover of freedom, when the (Nazi) revolution came, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but no, the universities were immediately silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks…” –Albert Einstein
I voted count me out, and submitted my comments:
“There is nothing at all unusual about climate today, nor is there any convincing evidence that C02 itself, let alone man’s measly contribution of 3% to it can, or ever has driven climate. It is primarily changes in the sun and oceans which drive climate.
Any sort of climate agreement at Copenhagen is not only completely unnecessary, but could have disastrous effects on economies worldwide.”
What are they gonna do? I double-dog dare them.
This looks like one of those polls that could go horribly wrong 😉
“The Science Museum has examined the evidence. We’re convinced climate change is caused by humans and requires urgent action.”
What more proof could you possibly need?
Fortunately we have some good news too:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/chinaindia_accord_to_scuttle_u.html
Better yet, try the link at the bottom for making your own message
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/proveit/send.aspx
Invite your friends and family to be part of PROVE IT! First, choose a point that you think will motivate them:Choose a point that you think will motivate your friends and family.
“Climate change has already started and we’re causing it. ”
“Whatever the plan, it must be economically viable.”
“Copenhagen must protect people who are most vulnerable to climate change.”
“If greenhouse gas emissions keep rising, we will experience severe consequences.”
“The UK wants the world to share its strong stance on climate change.”
“Countries must share the global responsibility for tackling climate change.”
How about none of the above?
Guys, this is really silly. Of course they are not making a note of everyone who dissents from AGW with a view to putting them on lists. To do what with them?
There is in fact quite a lot of very legitimate debate in the UK about climate. It seems to be generally agreed in official circles that AGW exists and is a threat and that carbon emissions should be limited. But after that, in terms of priorities and implementation, there’s a lot of fairly reasonable discussion. Ordinary people are probably a bit more skeptical – the British public is fairly bloody minded about some things, and don’t greatly care for being told what to do or think.
Even in official circles you have real debates. For instance, does the probability (in the official view) of rising sea levels mean we should give up on sea defences, they being futile? Or does the probability of climate disturbances mean that food security is going to be a major problem, so we should reinforce coastal defences so as to preserve farmland? Conservative Party policy seems to be inclining to the latter. There are vigorous debates going on about windmills, about tidal barrages, about the tradeoffs with wildnerness protection and power generation. People express themselves fairly freely on these matters.
You see that policy and evidence and prediction and their fit with a given view of climate is actually a very complicated set of issues, and there will be debate in the UK on lots of aspects of this for some time.
However, it is true that the default position in the UK is to worry about Global Warming, to see it as a problem, and to see it as the UK’s duty to participate in international programs designed to alleviate damage from it. That is true. But I think you’d be hard put to find anyone seriously worried about what the Government will think of him if he expresses skepticism about AGW.
You’re misrepresenting the science museum. If you click ‘count me in’ they ask for the same information. This article is being disingenuous if it does not make this clear.
REPLY: No they are responsible for the situation. If a visitor clicks “COUNT ME OUT” first. Then leaves is disgust, the vote becomes lopsided. They’ll never see the other option and how it is presented.
They need to redo this language to be less threatening, IMHO. But I did add the screencap from the COUNT ME IN response to be fair. -A
I see no evidence there. The Science Museum gives the same old unsubstantiated propaganda. The Science Museum used to be a good place to visit, which I did regularly when I was a student just round the corner (and it was free). It can’t be trusted anymore.
count me out
but it doesn’t seem that sinister to me
perhaps i’m naive
Well, I have clicked on ‘count me out’. After that you get invited to
“Let us know what you think
The Science Museum is planning an exciting programme of new climate change exhibits and events, including a major new gallery launching in June 2010.
Tell us what you think about climate change, Copenhagen or PROVE IT!. Your comments will help inform what we do next. ”
So I wrote them a little essay about climate change hysteria, exaggeration, lack of warming, failure of computer models etc.
I wonder if I will get a visit from the Thought Police.
I counted myself out last night without noticing the possible “menace” in their message.
Still, given the Governments track record of incompetence, the thought police will be beating down the wrong door as I type.
“Climate change has already started and we’re causing it. ”
Agree. Climate Change Hysteria has started a stampede and panic, and is out to silence the opposition. They are already starting thier intimidating operations here, across the pond from the UK.
However, today, the MSM refused to go along with the Administration’s plan to isolate FOX News from the White House interviews.
If FOX can’t come, nobody will.
My Advice: Forget submitting names and addresses to the phony poll.
Throw a Tea Party instead ( or a Magna Carta Party), out in the open, where the public can see what happens. Do not fall for phony polls that seek to target individuals with midnight visits.
So lets see how many spam email addresses we can type in there in the shortest amount of time and have counted out. 🙂
Well I’ve ‘counted myself out’ and am pleased that the government is going to see my negative response to this plainly wrong science.
I would recommend everyone who is sceptical about AGW does the same. You can also leave a comment if you feel it will do any good. It would be great if the sceptics outnumbered the rest in this pole 🙂
I tried to count myself out. Gave them a false name “Whatta Lyingsackofsh**e” and a valid throwaway email. I was supposed to get a “confirmation email” that never arrived, but just got taken back to the screen where I can “Prove it!” and “Count myself in!” along with all the links to the “proof”.
So what actually is happening with those who count out? I wonder.
Steve S. wrote:
“Moveon.org is advocating for boycotting FOX and other nonconformists for Obama and this may expand to a tit for tat boycott surge.”
Not sure a boycott by the Moveon crowd would be noticed at FOX. They are not exactly FOX’s core audience. CNN looks conservative to them.
Call me overly optimistic, but based upon what I am hearing where I live in the heartland, I think that the regular everyday folks on Main Street U.S.A. (aka voters) are slowly waking up to the reality of what’s going on.