Final vote: 219 Yea, 212 Nay
Lets hope for defeat in the Senate. The list of votes is below.
As they say, making legislation is like making sausage. There’s a final product, but you surely don’t want to see the ugly process of it being made.
Today, those of us watching CSPAN, saw the ugliness of the sausage factory.
Here is the link to the vote tally:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll477.xml
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It’s nice to claim they are all the same but unfortunately we ARE a two party system and the extreme left is ruining this country and no matter how you slice it it is the Democrats. Think, why is it that the Republicans get all the negative press? Why are the Republicans the party that needs to change?. Lets see the media says it everyday, nothing the Republicans do is enough. OH I hear it already Bush did it, it wasn’t Chris Dodd or Barney Frank or Al Gore, Bush did it. Let me ask you something, which party made sense last night in the so called debate. Our liberties under the democrats is eroding fast and so are our wallets.
Yes but it won’t get through the senate, just as Kyoto rubbish, and the other Waxman malarkey, didn’t get through. There isn’t the will or the majority to even give the House Bill a timetable, let alone a vote. Sen Boxer knows the game is lost. So why has the House wasted so much time and taxpayers cash on this futile farce.
See Sen Inhofe speak at the Washington Climate Conference on June 2nd 2009……….. http://tinyurl.com/inhofe-nipcc
See Sen. Inhofe’s 9 minute speech on the Senate floor, where he “marks the card” for the other Senators, of the results of such a Bill becoming Law. Lest they forget why they refused other similar legislation previously.
“Pierre Gosselin (01:58:28) : Some lessons are only learned the old fashioned, hard way – by living with the consequences of bad decisions.”
You make it sound like America will be free of this some day after it learns it’s lesson. You are thinking politicians in the future will undo this? America is still being pulled down by some things Jimmy Carter did 30 years ago. Those still have not been undone and I don’t have any reason to think they will be at any point in the future.
So you think America will be freed of WaxmanMarkey some day? Tell me how.
“Benjamin (08:16:42) : This is a peice of legislation not unlike the bank bail out vote last year. Many (citizens) were against it,”
I had read back then that calls to politicians were 9 to 1 against the bank bail out.
I heard a politician on the radio yesterday. He said his office and all the other politicians offices he heard about were getting calls that were 20 to 1 against Waxman-Markey. They still passed it.
– if the bill doesn’t pass, then the Climate Ayatollahs will have missed their chance to inpose their faith. There will be no second chance as evidence mounts against AGW.
If Obama doesn’t get this passed now it will not be passed due to the disentegrating economy. What fool would build industry in the USA with this hanging over their head? Whether or not this passes the Senate the economic damage has already been done.
Despite what the talking heads say the economy continues to worsen. There are no green shoots, and any that might have been, have just got a good shot of Roundup.
The question now is not if the economy will suffer another downturn but when and the greater question is will we retain our freedom?.
I heard a politician on the radio yesterday. He said his office and all the other politicians offices he heard about were getting calls that were 20 to 1 against Waxman-Markey. They still passed it
And What does that tell you?? The extreme left cares more about their agenda than the well being and vitality of this country. They are all over the news, you can’t turn around without Obama telling us we have to change EVERYTHING this country has and stands for, come on, wake up!
“Guffaw (08:32:12) : Yes but it won’t get through the senate,”
I’m not a betting man. But boy if I was I’d sure like to make some money off of you.
Guffaw (08:32:12) :
Yes but it won’t get through the senate
Assume that it will.
Plan for such.
Act accordingly.
The time for complacency is over.
Hoping for peace didn’t stop Herr Hitler!
Round 1 to the AGW crowd (barely), but I think the tide is continuing to turn. The reader response to the recent NYT editoral “The House and Global Warming” is a good indicator I think. In the top 25 comments based on reader’s recommendations, I would categorize 22 as being critical of the NYT position, while 2 are favorable and 1 is neutral.
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2009/06/26/opinion/26fri1.html?sort=recommended
Before our elected law makers vote on bills, should the constituents not have a say in it? I have not looked for, and know nothing about the bill that was passed.
I wonder if the concerns about it are real or if this is another political, “party of NO” sensationalist outcry.
Sadly, I was dead wrong: It passed.
A sausage? More like a Meerkat. I am incoherent with rage.
Just Want Results… (08:42:24) : I had read back then that calls to politicians were 9 to 1 against the bank bail out. I heard a politician on the radio yesterday. He said his office and all the other politicians offices he heard about were getting calls that were 20 to 1 against Waxman-Markey. They still passed it.”
My state reps (called, faxed, and wrote all of them) PROMISED me they weren’t going to vote in favor of the bailouts. Man… Thing is, they give us so much to TRY and keep up with! It’s practically a full-time job trying to herd our government in the right direction. And that is precisely how it SHOULDN’T be, but anyway…
As I said in my first post, about govt securities… Well, this isn’t an economics blog but I will say that this has everything… and I mean EVERYTHING… to do propping up the illusion that the US isn’t flat broke. They all know that they’re not scientists and doctors to be deciding stuff like this (environment, health….). They also know that the Friedman and Keynesian economics that is the back-bone of “capitalism” is just one big sham.
Let me ask you… how is that a govt can issue endless debt (bonds) to the banks, then later, after the credit bubble pops, have the FOMC come in and BUY BACK those debts with newly created money? This “bails out” the banks AND the government, who is now debt free. That is what pops the credit bubble, paying off the debt fraudulently. In turn, those slaughtered in the bubble bust… us… we’re left like sitting ducks.
It not only violates our Constitution, it violates all sense of morality and common sense!
Now, about this cap and trade… Well, like they’re saying, China will “follow us” down the road, but that is clever spin. What they mean is that China will keep buying US govt debt. But the manufacturing jobs that come their way will be… well, collateral of a sorts. But they really want out gold. They’d MUCH rather have that, but if it takes more time for that, they’ll happily take more jobs until then and the economic clout that comes with being number 1 industrialized nation. We won’t be bossing them around, thats for sure. Fact is we don’t even own the gold in the vaults of the central bank, fort Knox etc. Its open to debate/speculation as to who does.
We’re in all likelihood beyond flat broke. Like I said, this will be interesting. Even if they do pass it, it will only reveal that fact. But what else are bluffers to do?
Just Want Results… Did you see the Inhofe Videos ?
He is the man who knows ….
Guffaw (09:44:08) :
I know who Inhofe is. How will he stop Waxman-Markey??
He is the man who knows ….
What does he know? That global warming is a power and money grab? Ok. So do I. So do millions of other people.
That means Waxman-Markey will not pass in Senate?
I’m not a betting man. But boy I could make a lot of money off of you too if I was.
Benjamin (09:41:46) : We’re in all likelihood beyond flat broke.
Nah, they have printing presses.
Guffaw (09:44:08) : Did you see the Inhofe Videos ?
Sure, I’ve seen Inhofe on video. I’ve seen Monckton. I’ve seen Lindzen. I’ve seen Spencer. I’ve seen Christy. I’ve seen Svensmark. I’ve seen Klaus. I’ve seen Plimer. I’ve seen more than probably everyone here, maybe even Anthony.
I’ve seen them. Waxman-Markey still passed.
Have you seen this?
For those who think it barely passed by 1 vote think again.
Watch this video (comes after a short ad)
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=14187569&ch=4226716&src=news
Now we can get on with moving forward! Odd how some folks cling to the 19th century — fraught with fear. There are no BOOGYMEN! We have brain power in America and finally we are going to be able to use it and address living in the 21st century. Hooray for change because it is opportunity in disguise!
Gee Benjamin and it only took Obama 4 months to nearly bankrupt us. Wait until he rams health care on us.
Lawyer mommie; Unfortunately the people who voted on this bill last night didn’t have time to read it either. Are we being represented or not?.
In Oregon, the congressional districts that include major population areas often dictate what the rest of us do. So I hate it when some congressman says I am not a constituent of his. There are 5 districts in Oregon. The vote was 3 to 2 to pass it. One republican and one democrat voted against it. Both have at one time, been my representative. The other three were in districts I did not vote in. Yet it may be that I must bow to their bidding.
In our Republic system of government we have both majority rule and the protection of minority/individual rights. We have both federal rule overriding some state rights and we have states rights crafting their own laws that others must obey as they transit through the state. Therefor the notion that our elected officials are responsible only to their own constituents is in reality, nonsense. Some elected body in a state I don’t live in, gets to dictate to me whether or not I can carry a gun through their state. Which means that New York can tell me, an Oregonian, what to do. I am a constituent of the elected officials from that state, whether they like it or not, and whether I like it or not.
This then leads me to face my responsibility to work as hard towards the removal of elected officials not from my district or state as I would work here at home. And this in addition to my responsibility towards my fellow man to protect his or her right to a dignified and productive life that could easily be taken away should this bill become law and even more jobs get shifted overseas.
So it is us against the government. Not Republicans against Democrats. There is no red blue divide anymore. There is just us. The workers and business owners, large and small, against an ever increasing encroaching and money hungry government supported by and in bed with pork barrel kickbacks buying the votes of weak politicians, wall street influences, and the smell of money dangled from the “willing to break or bend any rule” greedy hands of banks, regardless of party affiliations.
I am responsible to do my part to work against the entire list of yes votes. Why? I am their constituent and they have sold me as a slave to something I breath in and out anyway. And I voted the Democratic ticket.
I wanted Giuliani. You were going that way?
Very much so. He was my first choice.
Not only did I agree with him on almost every issue, but he had the necessary leadership ability. A “Classic” liberal (and, gosh, how that definition has changed).
I had to settle for what we actually got. More of an “against” vote than a “for” vote.
Just Want Results… (10:15:14) : “Nah, they have printing presses.”
That’s right, they do. But you have to understand something. The ONLY reason currencies (any kind) are accepted is because they can be used to buy gold (and/or, for now, gold futures and leases). If the US delays a possible gold default, then they will buy time for paper money (and the govt securities they are backed with). If they don’t delay, currencies won’t be worth the paper it’s written on, no matter how many they print up. So the printing press is meaningless. Can’t print gold, and future contracts and leases are no better than currencies.
They know that as well as any of us do. So CaT will pass because our govt is desperate to avoid that end-game. Either that, or socialized health care will pass. Maybe both. Last year, going against the will of their constituents prevented a gold default from getting worse. I see no reason why they would do different this time around. So far, I;m proven right.
I do not want to be doom-and-gloom myself but there comes a time when the elephant in the room has to be acknowledged. HOW can ANYONE (besides the many poor, scared near half to death kiddies and less able-minded adults) be so stupid to beleive the AGW crap? I gotta confess… I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Most of what I read here at the WUWT site is greek to me ( fascinating greek though 🙂 )
But even I see this for what it is. They aren’t naive to the dissent of the scientific community. These people deal in information and people all over the world. It’s their job to know. They’ve heard both sides. They in all likelihood DO realize that the dissenters are closer to reality if not right on target. But come on… when it comes down to the wealth and power of goverment and an inconvenient dissent… which do you figure will win, given that they aren’t listening to us? I HOPE it will be science and liberty. But I’m not betting on it.
I would therefore recommend, in contacting your reps, to add that you refuse to prop up the government securities market any longer. Not with your health and not with your future, nor that of your kids’ futures and grandkids futures.
Pamela Gray,
“In our Republic[an] system of government we have both majority rule and the protection of minority/individual rights.”
Well, that actually was the case for over 200 years, right up until the last federal election. Now, the rights of the minority are routinely disrespected and ignored, with sneering comments like, “We won.”
There is open hostility expressed almost daily against the minority party [and I’m no Republican] by the Speaker of the House, by the Senate majority leader, and by the president. Even ten years ago, if I had suggested that the majority party’s proposed bill would be withheld from the minority party two hours from the vote — and then one copy was grudgingly provided, to be shared by all 435 Representatives , you would have looked at me like I was a crazy person. And I would have felt crazy for suggesting it.
After winning a close election, most folks would think that the Democrat Party would be magnanimous in victory. It is a spotlight on their universal lack of character that they are being hostile and vindictive.
What causes their all-consuming hatred? And why will not one single elected Democrat speak up publicly, and point out this misplaced arrogance? Because the people who control the party’s purse strings, its media contacts, and its special interest vote buying groups like ACORN make it clear that within the Democrat Party, loyalty to The One is much more important than any loyalty to their constituents.
When Rep. DeFazio commented in a meeting that his constituents had strong reservations about the cost of the stimulus bill, and that he might vote against it, Obama pointedly told him he’d better not, adding: “Don’t think we’re not keeping score, brother.”
The American taxpayer is looked upon by the 2009 majority party as nothing more than sheep to be shorn. Pockets to be picked. They want more of your earnings. Much more. Yesterday’s vote was a big step in that direction.
In the upcoming Senate vote on cap ‘n’ trade, people should be aware that the 17th Amendment changed the dynamics of our Republic. Prior to the passage of the 17th, senators were elected by their state’s Legislature. This was intended to keep the federal government from becoming too powerful; the Constitution’s authors knew exactly what they were doing.
So now, rather than having to answer to their state’s representatives, senators must answer to their Party above all — the Party gives or withholds massive financial support based on the quid-pro-quo of the senator’s toeing the Party line. Both Parties do it; it’s a natural result of the change from a Republic-style election to direct democracy following ratification of the 17th A. Senators still must campaign for election. But when the state Legislature elected them, the state’s priority was #1. Now, winning the Democrat primary in a state like California is tantamount to getting elected. The actual election is simply a formality.
Today, it’s only what the Party’s central committee and the president wants that matters. The state’s citizens get a say in the matter once every six years per senator. But they get sidetracked by peripheral national issues like environmentalism, rather than by the central issue of what is best for the state’s citizens, whom the state’s senators purport to represent.
West Virginia is a prime example. If it were up to the Democrats, every mine worker in the state would be tossed out of his job, with a few crocodile tears and some phony hand-wringing. In Obama’s case they wouldn’t even get that. If I were a coal miner, I’d be very worried right now.
The constituents of the senate are now the Party and its hoard of special interests. The unaffiliated citizens come dead last. Some Representatives received 10 – 1 calls and emails against yesterday’s bill, yet they voted against their constituents, and for the wishes of the national Party. In the case of the Senate, no senator who voted against the wishes of the state’s representatives would keep their job for long. Now, senators are beholden to their Party over their state’s citizens. For several decades some states have paid substantially more in taxes, per capita, than other states. When was the last time any senator publicly protested that state of affairs? They don’t because their allegiance is to the Party, not to their state.
Dr Reese,
Somehow I’m skeptical of your doctorhood [chiropractor, maybe?], because you’re off on a “hooray for change” tangent. Try thinking for a change.
See, “change” has nothing to do with the issue. If you think it does you’re on the wrong site. The question is: does CO2 cause measurable global warming? And: how much of that putative AGW is caused by human emissions? Believing is not an answer. You need real world evidence. And you need to think, rather than hope.
So, how much warming is caused by CO2? My answer is: Almost none. The amount of AGW is so small that it is unmeasurable. GCM’s are nothing but speculative opinions run through a computer; give me the programmer’s chair, and I will produce any results you want. Models are opinions, nothing more. They have their uses. But they are certainly not empirical evidence. Most importantly, they can not predict.
Any supposed warming caused by human activity is completely unproven [I know that as a true believer in hopey change you have a hard time with that concept]. If AGW even exists, it is such a minor issue that it can be completely disregarded. Furthermore, CO2 is an entirely beneficial trace gas. It is no more harmful than H2O. But then again, understanding that takes thinking.
Prove me wrong… if you can. [You must use empirical, real world evidence, not computer models. Good luck.] But don’t tell me this bill is anything good, simply because it’s something that President Hopey Change wanted passed. It is a really huge tax increase, no more and no less — made necessary because of the proposed multi-$trillion expansion of government, promoted by its greedy and conniving special interests.