Final vote: 219 Yea, 212 Nay
Lets hope for defeat in the Senate. The list of votes is below.
As they say, making legislation is like making sausage. There’s a final product, but you surely don’t want to see the ugly process of it being made.
Today, those of us watching CSPAN, saw the ugliness of the sausage factory.
Here is the link to the vote tally:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll477.xml
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Blimey, I’ve just skimmed this and I can’t find a single comment supporting this measure – unanimity!
I’m British, here we have elections and those who win have political power for a time period. Surely the same happens in the US? Surely the Democrats are in power and they are doing what those in power do – exercising it, putting the mandate into practice. I don’t see why that is the end of the world – it’s democracy.
Of course, this is also all politics – science it’s is not.
Actually, Anthony, the image you display for this thread is very phallic, and not commensurate with the content, if you think a bit about it that way.
Mike D………. Well said Sir. Spot on.
This Cap and Trade bill, I feel, is Anti American….. Republicans and Democrats, despite their differences….. Are Americans.
To vote this bill into existence, is to join with the Globalists….. Socialists by nature and ideology…. and certainly not for Freedom and the American way.
Im not quite sure if pictures are allowed to be posted on these comments section, but i think this pic explains it all: http://members.gamedev.net/edxLabs/image/facepalm.jpg
Protest this July 4th in D.C. if you can!! If you can’t make it to D.C. then protest in front of your representatives office or find a group near you that has one set up for the 4th. They obviously don’t realize that this climate bill DOES NOT WORK! Europe tried it and in Spain, it led to an 18% unemployment rate! Call and email every representative that voted yes on this bill both Dems and Repubs! Do whatever you can to keep them from getting reelected!
Mike D. (23:58:22) : Picking up on your thread. (AGW vs. Democracy) …
In his farewell speech President Eisenhower warned of two threats to US democracy. Neither was external; the US was very strong militarily. Both were internal and he coined a term for each:
· Military-Industrial Complex
· Scientific-Technological Elite
Here is an excerpt from Eisenhower’s farewell speech:
“…Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government (research) contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity…. The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present … and is gravely to be regarded.”
The point: If scientists seeking federal research funds conduct the type of research desired by the federal government … or even produce results dictated by the government … Democracy would be threatened because the “Scientific-Technological Elite” would control information. Consider this excerpt from an interview William Happer, currently a physics professor at Princeton, gave to a Princeton newspaper:
Happer explained that his beliefs about climate change come from his experience at the Department of Energy, at which Happer said he supervised all non-weapons energy research, including climate change research. Managing a budget of more than $3 billion, Happer said he felt compelled to make sure it was being spent properly. “I would have [researchers] come in, and they would brief me on their topics,” Happer explained. “They would show up. Shiny faces, presentation ready to go. I would ask them questions, and they would be just delighted when you asked. That was true of almost every group that came in.”
The exceptions were climate change scientists, he said.
“They would give me a briefing. It was a completely different experience. I remember one speaker who asked why I wanted to know, why I asked that question. So I said, you know I always ask questions at these briefings … I often get a much better view of [things] in the interchange with the speaker,” Happer said. “This guy looked at me and said, ‘What answer would you like?’ I knew I was in trouble then. This was a community even in the early 1990s that was being turned political. [The attitude was] ‘Give me all this money, and I’ll get the answer you like.’ ”
The story (which I have not confirmed from a 2nd source) is Happer (Working in the Clinton Admin) was fired by AL Gore for not moving into the AGW camp.
Some lessons are only learned the old fashioned, hard way – by living with the consequences of bad decisions.
Face it – America needs a good dose of hard times, and this bill is the right medicine.
What logic cannot teach a moron, then there’s only pain and suffering left to convey the lesson.
How will this “result” effect the Copenhagen conference in December. ?
For some time I have been aware of an apparent “unwillingness” to accept America could go the same idiotic way Europe is going. This is usually based on the opinion “I never did buy into that CO2 rubbish”, whether that be true or not, it is immaterial.
The politicians HAVE.
I am very concerned that 2010 will be too late, care of this “result” and what will come out of Copenhagen, at least partially because of, or encouraged by it.
European economic catastrophy is almost now guaranteed,
America is on the same path.
Remembering Obama’s phrase,
“energy prices will neccesarily shy rocket”,
well it is already happening over in Europe.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/engineers-call-for-halt-to-wind-farm-investment-1786706.html
“We” all need to pull together against this scam,
regardless of Left, Right, Centre, or Libertarian (to name just a few).
All that can come much later, when we have “safe” economies again.
This is not an “American” or a “European” problem,
it is a problem for us ALL, together.
I hope we will see the rapid appearance of versions / branches of this political party springing up in other countries around the world.
http://www.climatesceptics.com.au/
I suspect the right time is upon us for such “politics”.
This is like draining the water out of the car radiator before leaving on a long trip, with the U.S. Government going to spend 4 times as much as it did last year, and giving the keys to the store to those that created this mess, those that see the light are buying deeply into the Power Share U.S Dollar Index Bearish Fund ( NYSE:UDN )
But I guess a burning Washington has no relation to the fiddle.
The founding fathers discussed the tyranny of the majority, but they came to the conclusion that no party could unite across the vastness of the US of A.
Parties of political elites forging ahead despite the will of the people are an evil across the Western world.
Democracy now has a new weapon in the internet, News is no longer rationed by the mainstream media and any politician who does not engage with their constituents, in the manner that Anthony does here, is going to find themselves yesterday’s men.
Following the Party line rather than the constituents’ wishes is a perversion of democracy.
Pierre Gosselin (01:58:28) :
Some lessons are only learned the old fashioned, hard way – by living with the consequences of bad decisions.
Face it – America needs a good dose of hard times, and this bill is the right medicine.
What logic cannot teach a moron, then there’s only pain and suffering left to convey the lesson.
Thanks , Pierre , for finding the right greek root for my proverb. moron comes from the root moros, that was in the ancient greek quote:
The exact translation then is:
“Whom God wants to destroy, he turns into a moron.”
“The price of going green” as seen in the UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8122122.stm
“There are warnings that the government’s green targets are about to push energy bills even higher.
The charity National Energy Action estimates that prices could rise by 10% over the next 12 months, pushing another half a million people into fuel poverty.”
Your future is expensive.
“What logic cannot teach a moron.”
A logic that kills him / her, their children,
before the lesson is learned.
Or a logic that harms others that have no say in
what the “moron” has learned, or been taught.
This logic will kill many the world over, mainly the poor,
(food prices last year for instance.)
the lesson is too harsh.
I listened to Obama’s speech. What a beautiful crock of propoganda. He said we cant be prisoners of the past. He said that by embracing the clean energy America will lead the world. There is an irony that seems to have escaped even his critics. If fossil fuel is energy of the past what is wind power? Wind power is the energy source of not just the past, but the distant past. My question for Mr Obama: how can a nation that adopts the energy of the middle ages be a leader in anything? Hello, Mr Obama?
I think I’ll just go hug my guns now.
Yesterday I listened to some late-nite debate among various older intellectuals (not one among them a specialist in Sciences, though) about climatic change. One of them was especially noxious, saying that it is necessary to cut off the consumption and possibilities for general population, because it is only in a state of need and general shortage when the humans are the most creative. So anything that will increase “Knappheit” (shortage) is welcomed. I was speechless…
If 4 of the 8 republicans had voted no……
Wouldn’t have mattered. The Dems had more votes they were just playing this so as few as possible conservative Dems needed to vote yes.
Dick Morris explains.
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=14187569&ch=4226716&src=news
“Curiousgeorge (04:43:24) :
I think I’ll just go hug my guns now.”
lucky you, so many people have had that “right” abolished, esp in Australia and New Zealand, and of course, the UK. But I reiterate, most people in western societies have access to easy food (I mean, American society has been known to “break down” because the local chook fried shop, had no chook!!!), “sport”, soap’s, “reality TV”, and all the other BS that is screened on TV, they are totally (Like Thatcher during the Falklands war) unaware of the “policies” implemented by “elected representitives”.
A frog in cold water is easy to boil and “we” are being boiled.
“anna v (00:35:41) :
Actually, Anthony, the image you display for this thread is very phallic, and not commensurate with the content, if you think a bit about it that way.”
I agree, Waxman IS a (snip)head.
Mike
Here’s an idea for the senate. I called my Maryland senator’s office and left a message to the following effect:
“Before you vote on this legislation, please satisfy me that you understand the science of this debate at, at the least, the most basic level. When you look at Al Gore’s graph of the long term correlation between CO2 and Global temperatures, which variable is leading the other by 500-800 years? Please respond with a letter to my address with the answer.”
I did not tell my Senator how to vote, which would in this case have been fruitless. I do have some hope that by framing such a basic question, which I am willing to bet he and his staff do not know the answer to, I may at least shock them into taking another look at the evidence before throwing away a party-line vote.
Such a strategy might be effective with other Senators. It has the advantage of moving the debate beyond the (usually fruitless, given the extent to which the lower brain centers have taken over the thinking of many AGW advocates) usual “yes-no” and instead insists that decision makers actually learn something about the science of the issue. At least in some cases, I am confident that once we get them started on this path, they will join the apostates and cease supporting dubious policy based on stupid science.
Best Wishes to all,
psi
and M. White’s allusion to the BBC report of a 10% increase in power bills over the next 12 months (slipped out whilst our Hoi Poloi outvie each other in mawkish sentiment and psuedo grief at the death of Michael Jackson) will not be the end of it in the UK where we are promised a fourfold realtime increase in energy bills inside the next twenty years.
Polititians on both sides of the pond are now, almost all, professional full time charlatans.
We are now possibly at the apex of global warming collective hysteria. Whether the bill ultimately makes it through the Senate or not, we have reached a tipping point:
— if the bill makes it into law, a huge cap-and-trade market will be created. At some point, this market will crash, as it must inevitably do, since this market will rest on faith and not on science. When the faith goes, the trapdoor will open;
— if the bill doesn’t pass, then the Climate Ayatollahs will have missed their chance to inpose their faith. There will be no second chance as evidence mounts against AGW.
Richard deSousa (19:21:25) : Never overestimate the intelligence of the members of the House of Representatives.” I would add: nor forget they are weasels.
A quick funny… on the not voting list is the name “Flake”. Well I guess so! : )
I wish it had never passed the House because I think the Senate will pass it. This is a peice of legislation not unlike the bank bail out vote last year. Many (citizens) were against it, had made that known, were overwhelmingly against it, yet both house and senate passed it. You know, “in the best interest of the nation” and all that garbage.
However, I would like to point out that our president is under the delusion that govt securitized debt instruments will prop up this kind of spending. He’s been assured by his economic advisors that they will. They won’t. In the past (wild) spending worked because debt to GDP wasn’t in the negative. That is no longer the case, ladies and gents. This should be really interesting, to put it mildly!