From the Australian
Ice shelves stable over six years
ANTARCTIC ice shelves are showing no sign of climate change, six years of unique research have shown.
Previously on WUWT we discussed the media’s fascination with “melt” when it comes to ice shelves cracking off. Then there’s also this picture that keeps getting recycled. Now there’s the “ice listeners” that hear no change. (see my note at the end)
http://www.ogleearth.com/wissm.jpg
Here’s the article in the Australian
Scientists from Western Australia’s Curtin University of Technology are using acoustic sensors developed to support the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty to listen for the sound of icebergs breaking away from the giant ice sheets of the south pole.
“More than six years of observation has not revealed any significant climatic trends,” CUT associate professor Alexander Gavrilov said yesterday.
Professor Gavrilov and PhD student Binghui Li are investigating whether it is possible to detect and monitor significant changes in the disintegration rate of the Antarctic ice shelf by monitoring the noise of ice breaking.
The pair are using two acoustic stations, one 150km off Cape Leeuwin, the southwest tip of WA, and another off the gigantic US military base on Diego Garcia in the Chagos Archipelago, in the Indian Ocean.
“They are part of a network of underwater acoustic receivers, or hydrophones,” Dr Gavrilov told The Australian yesterday.
The stations have been used to locate nuclear explosions detonated by India.
More than 100 signals from Antarctica are detected weekly by the Cape Leeuwin station. They are then transmitted to Geoscience Australia in Canberra.
“Six years of results is not long in the scheme of things, so we will keep watching,” Dr Gavrilov said.
The pair will present their research at a conference in Europe later this month.
NOTE: While the science on this is questionable at this point, one should note that if the results went the other way, our valiant media would no doubt trumpet the news worldwide. No doubt we’d see catchy headlines like “Ice whisperers hear climate change in the Antarctic” – Anthony
“”” oms (17:19:34) :
David L. Hagen (13:43:04) :
WUTW readers may enjoy exploring the related issue of “Acoustic Thermometry of Ocean Climate”
How is sound used to measure temperature in the ocean?
…
With such superbly low uncertainty and long term accuracy, why not extend this research?
David, thanks for the interesting links.
With respect to jeez’ post, both long-range acoustic tomography and propagation of sound through the stratified ocean are still active areas of research. 😉 “””
When I revisited my alma mater (U of Auckland) Physics Dept in 2004; the current Dean of the Dept sat down with me and related the areas of research they were currently working on and accoustic tomography was one such area. I thought it was a pretty damn clever way to get at a value that could be otherwise difficult to get a handle on.
Because most of the land is in the northern hemisphere, AGW theory predicts that most of the warming will be in the Arctic.
Antarctica’s situation is only regional. This is partly due to the ozone hole, which acts on the stratosphere, to increase the circumpolar winds.
These warm the Antarctic Peninsula, while preventing warmer winds from reaching East Antarctica. Also, East Antarctica is at high elevation.
And, Antarctica is a continent surrounded by water. While the Arctic is an
Ocean surrounded by land.
Antarctica is certainly not as important to AGW theory as, say, its sea ice is to skeptic argumentation.
Pat
not sure if you didn’t miss the point. For the wind to come in from the south here it would have to come “up” from Antarctica at some stage. Your path was the direct, northerly approach over the Pacific.
One thing is for sure, I bet none of the GCM’s have that one factored in!
(sark off).
Francis (19:45:31) :
Because most of the land is in the northern hemisphere, AGW theory predicts that most of the warming will be in the Arctic.
Antarctica’s situation is only regional. This is partly due to the ozone hole, which acts on the stratosphere, to increase the circumpolar winds.
These warm the Antarctic Peninsula, while preventing warmer winds from reaching East Antarctica. Also, East Antarctica is at high elevation.
And, Antarctica is a continent surrounded by water. While the Arctic is an
Ocean surrounded by land.
Antarctica is certainly not as important to AGW theory as, say, its sea ice is to skeptic argumentation.
Francis (19:45:31) : – I would beg to differ.
[1] The Wilkin’s ice shelf is in the news approximately every SH Autumn when large chunks break off and is used to whip up alarmist sentiment.
[2] Recent work by Steig et al to “demonstrate” warming has been trumpeted as confirmation of the Climate models.
[3] The melting of the Antarctic Ice Sheets are a major component of the “Catastrophy” aspect of Man Made Global Warming that is currently expected to inundate the worlds seaboards.
Not sure you can expect a meaningful or significant trend from 6 years of data, but that’s never stopped you before.
That’s about all it took to end the Younger Dryas . . .
Lubos Motl in global climate change debate tomorrow :
http://motls.blogspot.com/2009/06/climate-in-bratislava.html
Is it possible to use this wonderful equipment to listen to the crumbling of the warmist arguments?
Seems they must need a chiropractor down there to perform some adjustments on the glacier.
I just CAN’T believe this blog missed the boat on that one Burger King sign! I thought for sure it’d be up for a whole week here, with the headline “B.K. knows Global Warming is B.S.” I consider it a lost opportunity.
Flanagan (10:30:11). You say that they do not prove that it’s not melting, but satellite data, and other data, shows that the Antarctica ice over all is expanding. NOAA and all scientists I know admits this.
But since you don’t seem to admit this at all can you mention any data which shows Antarctica’s ice over all shrinks?
I guess my questino to you is — as you put it — to “loosing [my] time (an money)”, but now it’s done… What’s your answer?
A picture is worth a thousand words, for those smart enough to read:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518374,00.html
That story is timestamped 30 April 2009… is that within the past six years?
And, can we really trust the environmental leftist nuts at FOX?!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518374,00.html
“Ian Cooper (21:31:57) :
Pat
not sure if you didn’t miss the point. For the wind to come in from the south here it would have to come “up” from Antarctica at some stage. Your path was the direct, northerly approach over the Pacific.
One thing is for sure, I bet none of the GCM’s have that one factored in!
(sark off).”
Refer to post…
“Pat (18:20:08) :
As Murray Walker used to say “What am I saying?”.
Open mouth, change foot, d’oh! 15 years living downunder, I still get confused about certain things.”
Francis (19:45:31) :
…
Antarctica is certainly not as important to AGW theory as, say, its sea ice is to skeptic argumentation.
As a follow up to Graeme Rodaughan’s response, you need to go to RC and tell them they’ve been mistaken in looking at Antarctic conditions. Be sure to come back and let us know how that works out for you.
nelsonleith. Here’s a description of in media re-used pictures of the Wilkins Ice Shelf catastrophe (sic!):
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/17/the-antarctic-wilkins-ice-shelf-collapse-media-recycles-photos-and-storylines-from-previous-years/
West Antarctica will not start to collapse in at least 100 years, and the collapse will takes thousands of years, according to the best science available — a quite new study in journal Nature:
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/study-west-antarctic-melt-a-slow-affair
(Lots of mainstream media which presented this study did that wrong, and told the public the opposite of what the study actually says.)
The massive coastal glaciers girdling Antarctica are shrinking fast, but the situation may be different in some other parts of Antarctica.
The glaciers of the Garhwal Himalaya are retreating fast, but the situation has not changed in the Siachin glaciers during the last century. Models are models, the ground-truth may spreak differently.
I am reminded of models predicting that the Maldives will disappear soon under the rising sea-levels due to glaobal warming. Morner has shown it is the otherway round.
Are the alarmist listening!
Ron de Haan, 01:57:01
America really has a colossal problem this has been sanctioned by the Obama admin, Jimmie Carter come back! all is forgiven ! the only thing left is ask the Iranians for help in communication and crowd control.
“”” I put those little grains of salt in to keep Charles the Moderator happy; we sometimes annoy him accidently so he needs some cheering up.
Besides you know what white knuckle fliers say; “The further I get from the firma, the more the terra ! ”
George
Reply: Terrable. ~ charles the (moderne spelling always use lower case) moderator “””
Well I chose to anoint you with the title of “Moderator” as distinct from an inanimate object like the moderator in a nuclear reactor; and being properly British (as well as fully American) we always use caps for titles of nobility.
And for the Terabytes; the cap “T” is by international agreement, as the diminutive “t” ; while not a current in use prefix, would be something very small such as “tichybyte”.
George
“Ice whisperers hear climate change in the Antarctic” – Anthony
I can see the book title now: “Silent Ice Scream”
When it is hotter than normal it is AGW.
When it is colder than normal it is weather.
People GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!
The first woman to explore the Antarctic has passed away: click
Graeme Rodaughan (21:49:32) & John W. (06:49:47):
I was referring to AGW’s central ‘THEORY’, because that is the obvious first target of skeptic criticism.
As suggested, I looked at two RC articles on Antarctica.
The good news is that they back-up my no-warming-for-East-Antarctica
statement.
The bad news is that there is no mention of my land area argument.
polar amplification: “…the amplified rate of surface warming at the poles compared to the rest of the globe in (a) climate model’s response to increasing (greenhouse gas) levels.”
“Newer climate models generally also have very modest or no polar amplification over the Southern Ocean and Antarctica in hindcasts of the last century. The presence of a deep and circulating ocean component is key becaue the ocean heat uptake increases most in the Southern Ocean as the climate warms.”
“…models have (also) been used to attribute a considerable fraction of the warming on the Antarctic Peninsula and the lack of warming elsewhere on Antarctica to a decreasing trend in stratospheric ozone levels in the past few decades.” 2 Jan 06
“…we often hear people remarking that parts of Antarctica are getting colder and indeed the ice pack in the Southern Ocean around Antarctica has actually been getting bigger. Doesn’t this contradict the calculations that greenhouse gases are warming the globe? Not at all, because a cold Antarctica is just what calculations predict…and have predicted for the past quarter century.”
“…computer models…continue to show that Antarctica cannot be expected to warm up very significantly until long after the rest of the world’s climate is radically changed.” 12 Feb 08
They ought to listen to Greenland too, since the warmers claim that glacial calving has increased.
Today in Parliament, the Environment minister Hilary Benn outlined apocalyptic climate change for UK between now and 2008. Global warming will result in temperatures up to 41° C , and the desertification of much of the country! And high increases in sea level!
Roger Knights (23:55:03) :
This also sounds (no pun intended) like a good idea, but a nice, isolated place (Antarctica), away from shipping channels and other noises, is probably not a bad place to start.