Jim Hansen calls Cap and Trade the "Temple of Doom"

Hansens's 1988 testimony - the birth of the cap and trade temple
Law of unintended consequences? Hansens's 1988 congressional testimony - the moment of birth of the CO2 worry, which later morphed into the cap and trade Gorian temple (i.e. Jim, you started it)

Note: this letter from Dr. Jim Hansen of NASA GISS is reprinted below unedited, exactly in email as it was received by me, including the title below. You can reference a PDF version on his Columbia U page here I’ll have to agree with Dr. Hansen though, Cap and Trade is about the closest thing to the “Temple of Doom” our economy would face. No word yet from Harrison Ford if he’ll play Jim in the movie. What is most interesting is who he didn’t mention in the last paragraph.- Anthony


Worshipping the Temple of Doom

My response to the letter from Dr. Martin Parkinson, Secretary of the Australian Department of Climate Change, is available, along with this note, on my web site.

Thanks to the many people who provided comments on my draft response, including Steve Hatfield-Dodds, a senior official within the Australian Department of Climate Change.  I appreciate the willingness of the Australian government to engage in this discussion.  I believe that you will find the final letter to be significantly improved over the draft version.

Several people admonished me for informal language, which detracts from credibility, and attempts at humor with an insulting tone (e.g., alligator shoes).  They are right, of course – these should not be in the letter.  So I reserve opinions with an edge to my covering e-mail note.

My frustration arises from the huge gap between words of governments, worldwide, and their actions or planned actions.  It is easy to speak of a planet in peril.  It is quite another to level with the public about what is needed, even if the actions are in everybody’s long-term interest.

Instead governments are retreating to feckless “cap-and-trade”, a minor tweak to business-as-usual.  Oil companies are so relieved to realize that they do not need to learn to be energy companies that they are decreasing their already trivial investments in renewable energy.  They are using the money to buy greenwash advertisements.  Perhaps if politicians and businesses paint each other green, it will not seem so bad when our forests burn.

Cap-and-trade is the temple of doom.  It would lock in disasters for our children and grandchildren.  Why do people continue to worship a disastrous approach?  Its fecklessness was proven by the Kyoto Protocol.  It took a decade to implement the treaty, as countries extracted concessions that weakened even mild goals.  Most countries that claim to have met their obligations actually increased their emissions.  Others found that even modest reductions of emissions were inconvenient, and thus they simply ignored their goals.

Why is this cap-and-trade temple of doom worshipped?  The 648 page cap-and-trade monstrosity that is being foisted on the U.S. Congress provides the answer.  Not a single Congressperson has read it.  They don’t need to – they just need to add more paragraphs to support their own special interests.  By the way, the Congress people do not write most of those paragraphs – they are “suggested” by people in alligator shoes.

The only defense of this monstrous absurdity that I have heard is “well, you are right, it’s no good, but the train has left the station”.  If the train has left, it had better be derailed soon or the planet, and all of us, will be in deep do-do.  People with the gumption to parse the 648-pages come out with estimates of a price impact on petrol between 12 and 20 cents per gallon.  It has to be kept small and ineffectual, because they want to claim that it does not affect energy prices!

It seems they would not dream of being honest and admitting that an increased price for fossil fuels is essential to drive us to the world beyond fossil fuels.  Of course, there are a huge number of industries and people who do not want us to move to the world beyond fossil fuels – these are the biggest fans of cap-and-trade.  Next are those who want the process mystified, so they can make millions trading, speculating, and gaming the system at public expense.

The science has become clear: burning all fossil fuels would put Earth on a disastrous course, leaving our children and grandchildren with a deteriorating situation out of their control.  The geophysical implication is that most of the remaining coal and unconventional fossil fuels (tar shale, etc.) must be left in the ground or the emissions captured and put back in the ground.  A corollary is that it makes no sense to go after every last drop of oil in the most remote and pristine places – we would have to fight to get the CO2 back out of the air or somehow “geoengineer” our way out of its effects.

A more sensible approach is to begin a rapid transition to a clean energy future, beyond fossil fuels – for the sake of our children and grandchildren, already likely to be saddled with our economic debts, and to preserve the other species on the planet.  Such a path would also eliminate mercury emissions, most air pollution, acid rain and ozone alerts, likely reversing trends toward increasing asthma and birth defects.  Such an energy future would also halt the drain on our treasure and lives resulting from dependence on foreign energy sources.

What is it that does not compute here?  Why does the public choose to subsidize fossil fuels, rather than taxing fossil fuels to make them cover their costs to society?  I don’t think that the public actually voted on that one.  It probably has something to do with all the alligator shoes in Washington.  Those 2400 energy lobbyists in Washington are not well paid for nothing.  You have three guesses as to who eventually pays the salary of these lobbyists, and the first two guesses don’t count.

I get a lot of e-mails telling me to stick to climate, that I don’t know anything about economics.  I know this: the fundamental requirement for transition to the post fossil fuel era is a substantial and rising price on carbon emissions.  And businesses and consumers must understand that it will continue to rise in the future.

Of course, a rising carbon price alone is not sufficient for a successful rapid transition to the post fossil fuel era.  There also must be efficiency standards on buildings, vehicles, appliances, electronics and lighting.  Barriers to efficiency, such as utilities making more money when we use more energy, must be removed.

But the essential underlying requirement is a substantial rising carbon price.  Building standards, especially operations, for example, are practically unenforceable without a strong cost driver.  The carbon price must be sufficient to affect lifestyle choices.

648 pages are not needed to define a carbon fee.  It is a single number that would be ratcheted upward over time.  It would cover all three fossil fuels at their source: the mine or port of entry.  Consumers do not directly pay any tax, but the fee’s effect permeates everything from the price of fuel to the price of food (especially if it is imported from halfway around the world).

As a point of reference a fee equivalent to $1/gallon of gasoline ($115/ton CO2) would yield $670B in the United States (based on energy use data for 2007).  That would provide a dividend of $3000/year to legal adult residents in the United States ($9000/year to a family with two or more children).

A person reducing his carbon footprint more than average would gain economically, if the fee is returned 100 percent to the public on a per capita basis.  With the present distributions of income and energy use, it is estimated that about 60 percent of the people would get a dividend exceeding their tax.  So why would they not just spend their dividend on expensive fuel?  Nobody wants to pay more taxes.  They prefer to have the money for other things.  As the price of fossil fuels continues to increase, people would conserve energy, choose more energy efficient vehicles, and choose non-fossil (untaxed) energies and products.

Hey, does anybody know a great communicator, who might level with the public, explain what is needed to break our addiction to fossil fuels, to gain energy independence, to assure a future for young people?  Who would explain what is really needed, rather than hide behind future “goals” and a gimmick “cap”?  Naw.  Roosevelt and Churchill are dead.  So is Kennedy.

Jim

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Mike Bryant
May 6, 2009 7:56 pm

Jim Bouldin (19:42:03) :
ME…“You might try this online primer…It doesn’t take long to read…”
YOU…”Any idea why that might be Mike?”
ME…”Uhhhh, because it’s a primer?”

Ian Holton
May 6, 2009 8:09 pm

Say that again Mr Hansen!…I found it all rather hard to understand and follow…and the text seemed not to make much sense at times, by seemingly contradicting itself!

May 6, 2009 8:10 pm

Jim Bouldin,
Why are you so angry? Do you believe that your rage will convince people who have honest questions? Do you carry that rage with you wherever you go? Will you ever be able to carry on a calm discussion of the questions that many have? You must at some point gather yourself and find out why you act out against others. Thanks for commenting.
Mike Bryant
You’re more than welcome Mike, my pleasure. Let me know when you find some honest questions on this site and I’ll see what I can do.

May 6, 2009 8:16 pm

Since you’re out on an anti-hate patrol Mike, I thought you ought to see this one. You must have just overlooked it.
“As to Hansen and credibility. If James Hansen wore a clown suit, spoke througha kazoo, and danced on a table, he would have no less credibility. But he would be more entertaining. For Hansen to lose credibility, he would first have to have some. Hansen is a cynical liar, who seeks to deprive people of their civil liberties, who has abused his office, over stayed his time on the public stage, has manipulated his peers, misled the public, and is responsible for a multi-billion fraud called AGW. None of his arrogant, chatty, deceptive letters can change this”

AntonioSosa
May 6, 2009 8:17 pm

We don’t need ANY more taxes! Taxes are already killing our companies and destroying our future! Cap and Trade “would be the equivalent of an atomic bomb directed at the U.S. economy, all without any scientific justification,” says famed climatologist Dr. S. Fred Singer. It would significantly increase taxes and the cost of energy, forcing many companies to close, thus increasing unemployment, poverty and dependence.
More and more scientists and thinking people all over the world are realizing that man-made global warming is a hoax that threatens our future and the future of our children. More than 700 international scientists dissent over man-made global warming claims. They are now more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers. http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/3562/218/
Additionally, more than 30,000 American scientists have signed onto a petition that states, “There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” http://www.petitionproject.org
“Progressive” (communist) politicians like Obama seem determined to force us to swallow the man-made global warming scam. We need to defend ourselves from the United Nations and these politicians, who threaten our future and the future of our children. Based on a lie, they have already wasted billions and plan to increase taxes and increase the cost of energy, which will limit development, destroy our economy and enslave us.
If not stopped, the global warming scam will enrich the scammers (Gore and Obama’s Wall Street friends), increase the power of the United Nations and communists like Obama, and multiply poverty and servitude for the rest of us.

Just The Facts
May 6, 2009 8:24 pm

bill (15:34:03) :
“I am reasonably convinced of AGW, but all I require is some well researched proof that it is not happening and I will be swayed. But all any anti AGWs say is for me to prove my point of view – not at all helpful.”
Bill, the issue here is that there is no “proof” on either side, nor will there be in the near term. We have a brief snapshot of reliable data on a 4.5 billion year-old extremely complex continually evolving planet. You can chose to believe one side or the other, but this is simply a leap of faith.
From a data evaluation point of view, in addition to the troposphere data that Gilbert (18:01:35) cites, I think that global sea ice extent is helpful to keep track of. Global sea ice extent offers a reasonable indicator/proxy of earth’s surface temperature trend. Currently Antarctic Sea Ice Extent is significantly above average and Arctic Sea Ice Extent is about average:
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_timeseries.png
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png
So even though humans have rapidly increased their CO2 output over the last 30 years, global sea ice extent has increaced. It is impossible to draw conclusions from this, but it definitely provides reason to question whether human generated CO2 is really causing Earth’s temperature to rise alarmingly, or at all for that matter.

Noelene
May 6, 2009 8:31 pm

Jim Boulden
Your mind is made up,and there’s no changing it.Mine is too,and there’s no changing it.I had a boy of 12 say to me”we’re all gonna burn”.I explained to him that even the worst case scenario put forward by science does not say that,and I wondered at a world that fosters such fear in a 12 year old.When the media were touting that 150 people had died in Mexico,and then had to change it to less than 20,I pointed out to him that you could never believe what was written these days.I hope he learns to ask questions,it was the story on biofuels and food shortages that started me asking questions,and it led me to a different way of thinking, I saw hypocrisy everywhere I looked.

Robert Bateman
May 6, 2009 8:37 pm

Wasn’t Hansen the guy who last Feb or March called for the US to shut all it’s coal plants down?
With scary scenarios like that, it’s no wonder the pols are eager to pass a Tax & Spill agenda. They got jittery lobbyists climbing all over them.
1.) Stop yelling Fire on a crowded planet
2.) Where’s the ocean level pics?

Mike Bryant
May 6, 2009 8:44 pm

“Jim Bouldin (20:16:50) :
Since you’re out on an anti-hate patrol Mike, I thought you ought to see this one. You must have just overlooked it.”
I’m not on an anti-hate patrol, Jim. I could make a long list of things that I really hate. But maybe I’ll just give you one in the PS. I really wonder why academics, phds and scientists seem to find it necessary to speak to me and others here as if we are your naughty children. We are grownups who deserve respect, even as you do. You are not my better because you went to college longer than I did. You are a man, a man who is fallible even as we all are. When you can come down from your heavenly perch and reason like men should reason, you will be more respected. Now, you seem more like a child, a screeching spoiled child, who believes he is better than others because he holds a phd. Maybe you should try to act like a real man, an adult, someone who cares to make himself believed, not despised.
Thanks for listening,
Mike Bryant
PS I really don’t like people that talk down to me.

Kum Dollison
May 6, 2009 8:45 pm

Okay, let’s say we use, in the U.S., 80 TWhrs/day (total energy – transportation, electricity, etc.) 80 Billion Kwhrs/day. The U.S. (non-Alaska) is about 8 million sq. km. What’s that, 8 trillion sq meters?
Can you get 4 kwhrs/day per sq meter of solar cells? Let’s say you can. Now, you need 20 billion sq m. 2.5% of land mass. Average county is about 1,000 sq mi. So, an area 5 mi X 5 mi per county would do it. There’s not many counties that couldn’t give up an are 5 mi squared to supply ALL of their energy needs.
Need a lot of storage, of course. Are we going to do that. Of course not. Could we? I guess.
Cost: First Solar says they have achieved $1.00 Watt. Add a buck for profit, shipping, installation, etc. About 3 years GDP.
Seems entirely reasonable for “Peak” electricity in the southern states, though.

Robert Kral
May 6, 2009 8:52 pm

Boy, this thread is amazing. Hu’s post is laughable, to put it kindly, but others have dealt with it in detail. Just a few questions for the group.
1) A “revenue-neutral tax”? Are you out of your minds? Please show me an example of a previous revenue-neutral tax.
2) If the government is going to collect the tax and then immediately return all of the money to the populace, what is the point of the tax? Whose behavior is it intended to affect? What is the intended effect of the tax- to make certain forms of energy more expensive, right? Please list all products and services that will not go up in price when energy prices go up.
3) Who pays the cost of calculating, collecting, and redistributing the tax (including the cost of figuring out who gets what in the redistribution phase)? Doesn’t that cost alone prevent the whole scheme from being “revenue neutral”?
4) Isn’t the fact that James Hansen is pushing a concept that wouldn’t last 30 minutes in a freshman economics seminar conclusive proof that he does not deserve to be taken seriously on any subject?

May 6, 2009 9:03 pm

Dr. Hansen discovers political reality in the United States (and elsewhere around the world).

May 6, 2009 9:16 pm

Hansen is like a person who is profoundly convinced that there is a guy in the sky who made everything, and who offers a salvation package deal. The person is terrified of giving up that belief because it would reveal that decades of his life had been dedicated to a delusion.
So he tinkers with the fantasy, perhaps selecting physical resurrection to judgement and Kingdom, in preference to instant passing in spirit form to Heaven.
Hansen needs to give up the entire sad athropogenic-climate-variation lie produced by prejudiced computer-modelling. Devoting sincere effort to fighting over details of doctrine inside the host of the deluded, is sadder than sad.

James Allison
May 6, 2009 9:25 pm

Jim Bouldin (18:47:24) :
““Throughout our history the adoption of new technology has always overcome an existing perceived crisis.”
You mean like genocide, war, racism, cancer, HIV, the black death, the global extinction spasm, nuclear waste storage, nuclear weapons proliferation, DDT poisoning, nutrient-induced anoxia, substance abuse, animal abuse, desertification, and tropical deforestation, for starters? Oh but wait, yeah, we solved the too much horse manure in London problem with the car, good point.”
Interesting mix of perceived crises Jim – animal abuse? – anyway I got it wrong – feeding the horses was the issue. Have you ever been in a car Jim?
Hey stick around this site for a while, there are alot of very open minded people contributing and at times WUWT can also make for highly entertaining reading.
Thanks
James

Editor
May 6, 2009 9:32 pm

Noelene (20:31:57) : “Jim Boulden – Your mind is made up,and there’s no changing it.Mine is too,and there’s no changing it.
I believed in AGW at first, but changed my mind after reading the IPCC Report and starting to check the evidence. Although I consider it extremely unlikely, if new evidence showed AGW to be correct I would have to change again.
bill (15:34:03) : “I am reasonably convinced of AGW, but all I require is some well researched proof that it is not happening and I will be swayed. But all any anti AGWs say is for me to prove my point of view – not at all helpful.
Gilbert (18:01:35) gave you the proof you need : “The most telling factor for me is the lack of warming in the upper troposphere over the tropics. Greenhouse theory predicts that the upper troposphere should warm at 2 to 2.5 times the rate at the surface. Over fifty years of balloon data and 30+ years of satellite readings show no such warming. Thus, no warming due to the greenhouse effect or CO2.
For me this is conclusive. Everything else is much ado about nothing.

It really is the case that the tropical troposphere is absolutely central to the whole AGW case – the tropical troposphere IS the absolute central engine of global warming. The IPCC Report shows it very clearly in chapter 9, figure 9.1 which is reproduced here:
file:///D:/Documents/Mike/Website/TheScientificCaseAgainstAGW9_files/image002.jpg
The IPCC works through a whole raft of scientific papers and model calculations, applying a set of fundamental assumptions about the effect of atmospheric CO2 and the physical mechanisms involved. They show unequivocally that the AGW warming will occur primarily in the LT over the tropical region and will outweigh everything else. If that does not actually happen, then their fundamental assumptions and/or their calculations are incorrect. No ifs, no buts, their work simply cannot be correct. If their fundamental assumptions and/or their calculations are incorrect, then the entire hypothesis collapses, because every facet of the hypothesis, and every single prediction that flows from it, including the dangerous man-made global warming, is based on that very set of fundamental assumptions and calculations.
Yet the temperature records for the surface and the troposphere show very clearly the exact opposite :
file:///D:/Documents/Mike/Website/TheScientificCaseAgainstAGW9_files/image004.jpg
This is as absolute a proof as anyone could require, that the IPCC’s fundamental assumptions and calculations are plain wrong, and that therefore their AGW hypothesis collapses.
I spell out the whole argument here
file:///D:/Documents/Mike/Website/TheScientificCaseAgainstAGW9.htm
see “3. The Tropical Troposphere”.
There are some other arguments in the same document should you need them.

Editor
May 6, 2009 9:45 pm

Forget my last post, what a stuff-up – the images still don’t appear! Try this Word doc :-
http://members.westnet.com.au/jonas1/TheScientificCaseAgainstAGW9.doc
If that doesn’t work, I give up!

Mike Bryant
May 6, 2009 9:48 pm

Mike Jonas,
Only the third link works…
Mike

Iip
May 6, 2009 9:51 pm

“………….the huge gap between words of governments, worldwide, and their actions or planned actions…”
Most of them like to talk more and more.less action

Editor
May 6, 2009 10:04 pm

Jim Bouldin (16:40:46) :

“I get a lot of e-mails telling me to stick to climate, that I don’t know anything about economics.”
Really? And what exactly makes you think you know anything about climate either?

No one here really knows enough about climate. No one else does either.
It seems to me the best thing to do is to not get too wed to models, pet theories, etc, but focus on observation, look for things that don’t add up, check claims where possible. Basic scientific method.
The vitriol expressed on all sides is no more conducive to good science than was the vitriol over other challenges to accepted science, e.g. things resolved (e.g. continental drift), and other things yet to be resolved, (e.g. the effect of cosmic rays on climate). I look at the current climate debate and see a Golden Age of research, knowledge, and understanding. This is a wonderfully dynamic period in a field that normally moves at a “glacial” pace.
Fortunately, science does have a way of finding the truth and letting it out, I wish there were a more direct way to that goal, but perhaps there isn’t.
I’m not a professional scientist, but my siblings are and I’m happy to talk to scientists anywhere. When I was writing my essay on Science, Method, Climatology, and Forgetting the Basics I contacted a few to review it and to verify my description of scientific method was on track. My description lacks a section on creating, maintaining, and managing vitriol and ill-will. Perhaps that’s a flaw – if larval scientists spent more time on tolerating different points of view or learning to argue against them without putting the proponents on the defensive, that might lead to an environment where people could focus on celebrating what will be a unique period in the history of climatology.

May 6, 2009 10:33 pm

fascinating, this site is excellent for social anthropologists, what happened to the climate science tho?

Noelene
May 6, 2009 10:45 pm

Plenty of climate science on here if you want to look for it sukiho.

masonmart
May 6, 2009 11:25 pm

sukiho, here is your opportunity to enlighten us.

masonmart
May 6, 2009 11:44 pm

Mr Bouldin
I’m an ex-believer now sceptic. could you please demonstrate why the AGW theory is correct and the good data on here is incorrect in terms of past climate history, what is going on now and what seems like an embarrasingly comple debunking of the AGW concept. I don’t accept model prediction.
Seriously, convince me with fact and I will openly accept the faith

James P
May 7, 2009 12:55 am

No one here really knows enough about climate. No one else does either.
Well put. A friend of mine keeps the following on his wall, from a comment sheet handed in after a course he went on:
“It taught me how little I know, but also that others do not necessarily know more.”