This is quite something. Darn those Canucks. As we saw with his defense of eco-vandals in England, I wonder if Dr. James Hansen will rush to The Hague to testify for this one? And if by some furthest stretch of the imagination, this lawsuit is successful, what then? Will Pachauri use the spoils to whittle down the number of lifetimes if will take to erase his own carbon footprint? I wonder if Danny Bloom is related to omnipresent blog commenter, and Sierra Club representative, Steve Bloom? BTW Steve, we are still waiting, over a year now for your answer.
NOTE: The article below is reposted in entirety from the blog Northward Ho(t) The opinions are those of the author of that blog, Mitchel Anderson, not of myself nor of any WUWT contributor. – Anthony
Ballsy.
That is perhaps best word to describe a class action lawsuit filed this week in the International Criminal Court in The Hague in Holland against national governments refusing to act on reducing carbon emissions.
The suit was filed by climate activist Danny Bloom who is asking for “US$1 billion dollars in damages on behalf of future generations of human beings on Earth – if there are any”
No Joke
The lawsuit is specifically seeking damages from “all world leaders for intent to commit manslaughter against future generations of human beings by allowing murderous amounts of fossil fuels to be harvested, burned and sent into the atmosphere as CO2, causing possible apocalyptic harm to the Earth’s ecosystem and the very future of the human species.
The point of the suit of course is not to wring money out of carbon emitters, but to embarrass the legions of laggard governments in advance of upcoming international climate negotiations next month in Poland. According to Bloom, the legal action “is about trying to protect future generations of mankind, humankind, and a positive judgment in this case will help prod more people to take the issues of climate change and global warming more seriously. We fully intend to make all world leaders of today responsible for their actions in the present day and age.”
This case is a legal long shot no doubt, but Bloom’s team said “”it’s up to the court to decide whether this case has any merit. We fully expect the court to agree to at least hear the case and make a responsible and measured decision later.”
It would also be the first case of its kind to seek to act on behalf of future generations for the irresponsibility of their ancestors. The need to put world leaders on the hot seat is very real. International climate talks like the one happening next month in Poland have happening for over a decade yet global emissions just keep climbing. A recent report showed that in spite of international commitments, carbon emissions of 40 industrialized countries rose by 2.3 percent between 2000 and 2006.
That said, those countries that signed Kyoto saw their overall emissions fall by 17% below 1990. The disgraceful outlier among those nations is Canada, whose emissions ballooned by over 20% in spite of having ratifying Kyoto. Canada’s Prime Minister Harper has called Kyoto a “mistake” and he seems openly contemptuous of such international efforts to reduce greenhouse gases. Mr. Harper is of course not alone in the responsibility for Canada’ terrible climate change record. The Canadian public recently handed him another mandate in a general election.
Back to Mr. Bloom. His lawsuit seems directly targeted towards such irresponsible nations like Canada that have refused to take this issue seriously. If he wins, Bloom is planning to donate the $1 billion in damages to the Nobel winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).
Godspeed Mr. Bloom.
Danny Bloom, old, old proverb: Empty pitchers make the most noise.
I love it when people whip out “their” facts and figures, daring all comers to challenge them! 🙂 I just try to focus on the basic science, and it tells me I need to be skeptical. All that means is you need to do a much better job of proving your case. “Denial” and “denier” is something that brings an emotional context into the discussion – subtract it and you’ll find you have a more receptive crowd, but won’t change the fact that a lot of us are skeptics.
Statistics, of which I am a student, can be made to mean anything the manipulator…uh….statistician wants to make of them. You have to have the raw data – follow a guy like Steve McIntyre and his community discussions (something completely lacking with Mann, et al and GISS) and you’ll understand why so many are not willing to accept the party line on CO2 as the driver of AGW (if AGW actually existed as stated).
oops- was meant for another topic – My sincerest apologies Anthony..bows and scrapes humbly……
Mike, what Danny isn’t telling you is that he doesn’t want humanity to flourish. He wants the de-industrialization of the world, and to prevent third world development. They’ve told us this over and over again, I guess they didn’t expect us to believe them.
Danny Bloom (01:17:29) “NOT about money”
I actually did roll on the floor laughing my arse off.
kim (04:05:05) : “how does Bloom expect it to stand up in court?”
He doesn’t, it’s just a bit of self indulgent theatre.
I’m pretty new to the interweb, what is a troll?
@Danny,
Why not pledge to give the $1B to alleviating world poverty in the poorest nations?
Why give it too the IPCC who are already well funded?
Or is saving lives in the here and now a problem?
Let’s leave the name-calling to other blogs, please. If you met Danny Bloom face-to-face, you’d probably like him. Heck, Michael Crichton said he liked Al Gore. This is supposed to be about science, not one long argumentem ad hominem showplace.
“The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.” -John Stuart Mill, quoted in AWordADay
Danny Bloom (18:07:19) :
“Timo, this is NOT a publicity STUNT…….it is a WAKE UP CALL……. there is no OUR SIDE or THEIR SIDE….we are all in this together……”
Danny, you are not disputing or questioning my other statements. Based upon my knowledge about legal disputes, I like to challenge you to answer following questions:
1. Who do you represent? Only yourself, a group, a State or humanity (now and in the future);
2. When did you file the lawsuit?
3. What is your evidence?
4. Who will be your witnesses?
5. Please disclose the actual lawsuit at a website of your choice which is available for the public.
Awaiting your reply.
Jeff — “They” is a big word. I rail against Luddites and anti-social, anti-human types every day at my blog, but I also know that a few are the prime manipulators and the vast majority are manipulatees. Better to light a candle than to condemn the poor sots trapped in the dark.
Danny — According to estimates by paleoclimatologists, temps during the Climatic Optimum of 9,000 years ago were 5 degrees C warmer than today. Those were good times, not bad. And temps during 99% of the last 250 million years were warmer than that, by as much as 15-20 degrees C. The planet was lush and life flourished. In contrast, during the heights of previous glaciations it was cooler by 5 degrees C and vast ice sheets covered much of N. America and Eurasia. Those were tough, cruel times for plants and animals alike. Warmer is better. Count on it.
Luke (19:58:27) :
@Brian Johnson…
Exactly where does that .27% number come from?
how does the 0.27% of the man made contribution to the total have any measurable effect whatsoever?
From the quote below and I misquoted the 0.27 – should have been 0.28%
Dr. James Koermer, a meteorology professor at Plymouth State University (NH)
“Koermer said that water vapor is responsible for 95 percent of the green house gas effect in a given year while another 4.72 percent is caused by a mix of other greenhouse gases, including methane, nitrous oxide and carbon dioxide, which are naturally produced.
Humans are only responsible for .28 percent of all greenhouse gases produced during a year, he said.”
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081120/GJNEWS02/711203981/-1/CITNEWS08
“”Danny Bloom (20:25:56) :
>>>Deletions<<<
“” MIKE,
Really? Warmer is better? One or two degrees, yes, maybe, sure. I see your point. I am open-minded about this, old sock that I am, going on 60 and not too many years left on Earthville, but really, warmer is better? I accept what you say, and I understand it, a few degrees, but what if it goes to 6 degrees warmer, centigrade? Will that be cool? “”
Mr Bloom perhaps I should use Danny since you and others are.
On any average northern midsummer day on earth, there can be places in the Antarctic Winter midnight that are as cold as -90 C (-130 F) and at the same time there are places in the northern tropical deserts (Africa and middle East) with temperatures of about +60 C (140F) and there is someplace on earth with every possible temperature in that entire 150 deg C range, and there are people living in all of those places right now. Now strictly the highest officially reported weather station temperature was about +136 F (North Africa) and the lowest official Vostock station temperature was about -128F, but anecdotal evidence of somewhat lower.
Now what was it you were saying about suppose it got six degrees warmer ?
Most of the human population would totally thrive if it got six degrees warmer; and a whole lot fewer people would starve for lack of food.
By the way; If I promise you sole personal control over the global thermostat, so you can set it anywhere you please; just what temperature would you set it to and what would be your rationale for choosing that temperature; well other than for the good of mankind and the planet; which anyone would do. ?
Ahhh, the sweet oxygen of publicity.
Can someone tell me why we are feeding this guys ego? Im sure you’ve all come in contact with the type here on the internet. He is the guy who eggs on the argument out of some perverse pleasure. Then he can go to his other blogs and say .. see see theyre all nuts:) We are above that.
To Patrick Henry , above , posting at (19:40:24) :
HI Patrick,
Nice to finally meet in cyberspace. I often see your good and perceptive comments on Dot Earth, and always wondered who you were. Now we meet again. Yes, thanks for correction, the polar cities are for the year 2500, so lots of time to plan or even to reject them. Future generations will decide.
As for Alaska — and Fairbanks — you wrote: “You really should spend a winter in Fairbanks before deciding to set up a climate retreat there. I’m guessing that you wouldn’t like it.”
Patrick, I lived in Alaska for 12 years. Juneau 10 years, Nome 2 years. Spent time in Fairbanks and Fort Yukon. Shishmaref and Diomede Island, flew out there in a ski plane to visit local community college, I was the PR rep at the time. Loved Alaska. Fairbanks winters! Yes, they are cold. Like 50 below on some days. Nome was not that cold, but the sea ice froze for about 2 miles out and I often walked out on the sea ice, solid as a rock, even went ice fishing on weekends there. Nome was great: 14 bars and 14 churches. I learned alot there!
Keep in touch PH!
Danny
Timo van Druten, above, (22:56:29), asked me:
“Based upon my knowledge about legal disputes, I like to challenge you to answer following questions:”
Okay, sir, challenge accepted. — Danny
1. Who do you represent? Only yourself, a group, a State or humanity (now and in the future);
ANSWER: TIM, I just represent myself, an invidual, no conection at all whatsoever to any group, any nonprofit, any university or research institute, any state or governemnt. Just a one-man band trying to raise the alerm. Good question. Really, I am not connected with anyone. I live on a small island in the Western Pacific and have been out of the USA for 17 years, in Asia. I don’t even know what a blue state or a red state is.
2. When did you file the lawsuit?
IT IS STILL IN PROCESS . see below
3. What is your evidence?
Oh, Evidence? Good question. Best question yet. I will let Dr Lovelock and Dr Hansen answer that. Personally, I have not noticed the temps going up at all yet, or the sea levels rising yet. On my island, coastline is the same as ever. But the experts will deliver the goods. Stay tuned.
4. Who will be your witnesses?
SEE ABOVE. You can be called too, if you wish, to argue against the case. All voices are welcome, pro and con.
5. Please disclose the actual lawsuit at a website of your choice which is available for the public.
HERE is prelim language:
http://northwardho.blogspot.com/2008/11/class-action-lawsuit-against-world.html
and HERE is ICC letter to me:
Dear Mr. Bloom,
Thank you for the communication that you sent to the International
Criminal Court (ICC). Attached you’ll find a file on your
claim to the ICC.
With kind regards, etc.
LETTER:
Dear MR Bloom,
On behalf of the ICC Prosecutor, I thank you for your query on how to submit information to the Office of the Prosecutor. The Office welcomes the submission of information on crimes that may fall within the jurisdiction of the Court.
Communications may be addressed to the Office of the Prosecutor, Information & Evidence Unit, Post Office Box 19519, 2500 CM The Hague, The Netherlands, or sent by email to otp.informationdesk@icc-cpi.int , or sent by facsimile to +31 70 515 8555.
Communications should be written in one of the working languages of the Court, i.e. English or French, or if that is not possible, then in one of the other official languages, i.e. Arabic, Chinese, Russian or Spanish. It is preferable for communications to contain as much detailed information as possible.
Please be aware that the submission of information does not automatically trigger an investigation. In accordance with the Rome Statute, the Office of the Prosecutor must analyse all information submitted in order to determine whether the rigorous criteria of the Statute are satisfied. As you may know, the International Criminal Court has a carefully defined jurisdiction and mandate. We are pleased to provide supplementary information below summarizing the main aspects of the Court’s jurisdiction.
Once a decision is taken whether or not there is a reasonable basis to proceed with an investigation, the Office will promptly inform the senders of relevant communications, along with reasons for the decision. The Office will protect the confidentiality of all information submitted.
We are grateful for your interest in the Court. If you would like to learn more about the work of the Court, I invite you to visit our website at http://www.icc-cpi.int.
Best regards,
Information & Evidence Assistant
Office of the Prosecutor
International Criminal Court
From Mike Dubrasich (18:02:58) :
I have no problem with guerrilla theater, either.
end quote.
Well, most folks find it a royal pain in the … and think it just makes whoever is doing it look like a spoiled brat. Joe and Jane average need to go to work every day doing things like installing tires and pouring coffee. They really don’t like this kind of stunt. Go ahead, annoy the masses. All it says is that you can waste valuable time and resources on a juvenile rant behaviour. So? Any 9 year old can do that.
Please, do lots more of this kind of thing, since it will increasing alienate the typical person. Do enough of it and you can drain so many resources from things like the international tribunal (and damage its reputation so much) that it will fade into history as a bad dream / joke never to be worried about again.
From Danny Bloom (20:25:56) :
MIKE,
Really? Warmer is better
end quote
Yes Danny, Much better. That is why historic warm periods are called ‘optimum’ while the (naturally caused cyclical) cold periods that follow them are called ‘pessimum’. Optimums invariably have relative good times, health, food, plenty and peace. Pessimums invariably have bad times, disease, famine, scarcity and war over what is available. Civilizations fall and ignorance advances. The Dark Ages were a Pessimum…
Just for fun, look up the Roman Optimum and Roman Pessimum (the wiki is ok). Look up the history of the Little Ice Age (French Revolution, famine, Irish leaving Ireland, Scandanavians headed to the U.S. etc. It isn’t pretty. Think about the present modern optimum with more food and more people living better lives than ever before.
The flowering of Egypt happened in an earlier Optimum warm period, and it fell largely in later pessimum.
Warm is good. Very good.
Robert Wood (15:10:11) : above, said:
“This law suit was attempted originally in Canada, and was laughed out of courst, as it were. Now “Danny Bloom” is going itnernational. Who is financing him?”
Ha! Robert, if you saw my finances, you would not even ask the question. Nobody is financing me, just me. I own no stocks, have no retirement fund, have no 401K or whatever that is, have no pension coming, no trust fund, just my small savings from a life of interesting travels, and travails….
Jeff Alberst, above post,
“Mike, what Danny isn’t telling you is that he doesn’t want humanity to flourish. He wants the de-industrialization of the world, and to prevent third world development. They’ve told us this over and over again, I guess they didn’t expect us to believe them.”
Jeff, come on, get real. I want humankind to flourish, where did I ever say that I didn’t. If you knew me, if you took time to know me, as Mike has just done by email, you would know that i care deeply about the future of humanity and want the best of the future. yes yes yes. I am not a doomsayer or a end of the worlder or a survivalist, and I am not a member of any green group. i am one person doing my own thing. WHO is this thEY you talk about above. THEY? I am not THEY. I am just me. Please.
You say I “want the de-industrialization of the world, and to prevent third world development. ” Jeff, come on, please. I never said that. I love life, I love the world, I have had a very good and rewarding life, I want the future to last for a long long time. And I have travlled to the Third World and want only the best for those people, too. Don’t box me in, sir.
Everybody SIT DOWN. jorgekafkazar is gonna show us how not to silence expression of opinion by telling people to not express their opinion of Danny.
I’m thinking of suing the world for killing, no MURDERING my inner child.
I DEMAND TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!
From savo (22:16:05) : I’m pretty new to the interweb, what is a troll?
Someone who deliberately is fishing for an argument by posting provocatively.
See:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
Graeme Rodaughan (22:36:44) : above asked”
“Danny,
Why not pledge to give the $1B to alleviating world poverty in the poorest nations? Why give it too the IPCC who are already well funded?”
Or is saving lives ….in the here and now…. a problem?”
No, it is paramount to save lives in the here and now. I agree. And okay, I will pledge to damages if ever agreed upon, to the poorest nations. Better idea. I agree.
— danny
Danny:
Really? Warmer is better? One or two degrees, yes, maybe, sure. I see your point. I am open-minded about this, old sock that I am, going on 60 and not too many years left on Earthville, but really, warmer is better? I accept what you say, and I understand it, a few degrees, but what if it goes to 6 degrees warmer, centigrade? Will that be cool?
See, Danny, alarmism is basically all you people have, based on nothing but pseudo-science. Sure, we warmed up last century, about a whopping 1C, and a good thing we did, coming out of a very cool period known as the Little Ice Age. Thank the sun for that! As things warmed, C02 increased, which is what C02 always does, due to outgassing. Warming reached a peak in 1998, and has been cooling since then, despite increasing C02. It appears very likely we are in for another cooling, similar to the LIA.
For an excellent primer on the science, though, check this out: Editorial: The Great Global Warming Hoax
The more you learn, the more you will realize the whole AGW scare is just a bogeyman. Grow up.