Guest essay by Eric Worrall
A while ago WUWT wrote about the inexplicable green fascination with technological monstrosities, such as artificial trees, to replace real trees. And of course we already know about the green love of wind turbines and solar farms, which cover vast acreages of the natural landscape with concrete, plastic and steel.
Now greens appear to have gone one better – toxic artificial trees which emit cyanide.
According to Phys.org;
Globally recognised for his work the emerging field of nanoporous materials, Prof Vinu’s research into carbon nitrides has found that they have just the right properties to support the capture and conversion of CO2 molecules.
“Their interesting properties—a semiconducting framework structure and ordered pores—make them exciting candidates for the capture and conversion of CO2 molecules into methanol which can then be used as a source of green energy with the help of sunlight and water,” Prof Vinu said.
“My goal is to develop this unique approach which has the potential to make a huge contribution to cleaning the environment and addressing one of our most significant environmental problems, the mitigation of atmospheric CO2.
“This fascinating material is not only helping in reducing CO2 levels by developing an efficient, low-cost photo electrochemical semiconductor device, but also offers a clean fuel source from the conversion of absorbed CO2 molecules.
Read more: http://phys.org/news/2015-11-global-nanoporous-materials.html
Why do I think carbon nitride based trees could emit cyanide? The reason is cyanide is carbon nitride, with an additional hydrogen atom attached, chemical formula H-C-N. If you expose a carbon nitride nanoporous matrix to ultraviolet and water, its difficult to imagine how you could not produce a quantity of cyanide, as a byproduct of the photochemical deterioration of your carbon nitride matrix.
Perhaps Professor Vinu has a solution, for stabilising the nitride matrix, and keeping the cyanide emissions to an acceptable level. Personally I have my doubts – as China’s environmentally horrific rare Earth mining operation shows, greens often don’t seem to mind environmental damage, when the pollution which causes that damage is produced as a byproduct of doing something “green”.
So you stick one up your tail pipe and then pump the methanol into your fuel tank. They’ve invented perpetual motion!
I would’ve stopped at just sticking it up their tailpipe.
Putting these up would be a crime against humanity and the life on this planet itself.
Plants respond positively to CO2 up to 1,000 ppm. They begin to exhibit physiological detriments to health from CO2 starvation by at least 200 ppm. There is even a hypothesis that the rise of CO2 during the glacial/interglacial transition is partly responsible for the agricultural revolution and subsequently human society today. That’s why I hope the global warmistas are at least partially right in their hypothesis, that the industrial revolution has cancelled the impending glacial period (though I highly doubt it) which is by far the biggest climatic threat we face as a society.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2010.03441.x/pdf
I’m not so sure about the speculation that they would release CN- at harmful levels, and especially not concerned about this since HCN is already manufactured in large quantities for a large variety of industrial processes. This simplest of organic molecules is found everywhere there is life; we even exhale small amounts with every breath.
An aluminum 6′ unadorned poll is the answer – A Festivest for the rest of us
That would be perfect for the non-offensive secular holiday season!
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/103765/fa-la-la-your-la
Yes, nothing expresses the spirit of the holiday season better than traditional aluminum. Carbon nitrides, indeed.
http://retrorenovation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/BusyBhives-Aluminum-treee.jpg
What kind of dystopia can climate alarmists dream up next?
Please – don’t ask!
The movie “Idiocracy” will provide a hint.
I could use a “double Starbucks”.
so how many trillions of these trees would we have to use….and what does the idiot think that will cost in time and money
What is the complete formula you believe would cause this?
2HCN -> 2CH + H2
If you want the mechanism
2HCN+H20 -> H3O + CN (double bond)
CN + ultraviolet -> CN (triple bond)
You don’t get much simpler.It should happen with fair regularity
I looked at the paper. The synthesis of the stuff is very ambiguous, with at least one synthon left as an undefined acronym — TEOS. As a reviewer, I’d never let that lack of information get by.
Regardless, though, the stuff is not related to cyanide.
It appears to be a 3-dimensional crosslinked polymer with pores. A kind of brittle sponge.
It’s similar in many ways to reticulated vitreous carbon (RVC) — foamed glassy carbon, where “glassy” means amorphous. RVC has been around for a long time, and has lots of interesting high-tech uses.
The difference seems to be that the “carbon nitride” is a similar brittle foam with a high nitrogen content, whereas glassy carbon is, well, almost pure carbon (I happen to know it has detectable traces of sulfur, too).
Honestly, the whole business looks to be touting a pretty ordinary development. PR science at its most banal.
Pat Frank-
“an undefined acronym — TEOS”
I think TEOS stands for Tetra Ethyl Ortho Silicate. It has been used as a surfactant for liquid crystal display molecular alignment on the ITO coated glass plates that form the display sandwich.
Maybe. It should have been explicitly identified, as you say.
But if you burn methanol doesn’t it emit the deadly toxic gas CO2? The very thing you’re trying to eliminate? how is this a “green” fuel?
It will also produce water vapor, a much more potent greenhouse gas.
They will have to compete with the fusion power-just-around-the-corner, cellulosic ethanol just around the corner, and solar highways just around the corner money grubbers.
Sounds more to me like skyscraper solar farms. Same principle – only vertical.
Where will the electricity come from to run these ‘trees’?
Since these are “trees”, I take it they run on solar.
Do the greens understand that if CO2 is reduced to below 150 ppm that all plant life on the planet dies and in turn all animal life dies (including people). When we were at 280 ppm CO2 ( prior to the industrial revolution) we were very close to a total extension point. Talk about a tipping point!
I think 280 was a rounded number…there were measurements much lower than that
but 280 has a marked effect on plant growth….or lack of
WOW! Even closer than I thought!
Joseph, I thought that was the whole object of the “green” exercise.
Probably is true.
The one benefit I could see that these structures could be deployed in desert locations where trees could not survive.
As far as the cyanide, I’m not sure how susceptible the carbon-nitrogen bond is to free radicals or UV attack. Also, water generating free radicals is likely to create reactive oxygen species like superoxide anions and hydrogen peroxide. In an oxidizing environment, cyanide is converted to cyanate – it’s a common approach to cleanup of cyanide spills.
There’s actually permaculture techniques that can create lush gardens in desert areas with minimal added water, and even a few that get the moisture from the air and can cause greening. So even on that front, these fail.
But then this guy gets no grant money. Bummer.
After digesting a couple of books on fruit trees, I planted a 48-tree fruit orchard this last spring consisting of apricots, apples, cherries, nectarines, pears, peaches, and pluots–all specific to our Zone 5a.
And this isn’t any ordinary orchard–I’ve designed it to include an elevated trellis mounted on finished black locust posts (one next to each tree) that will support the lateral branches in six evenly-spaced directions on four levels while the whole thing will be covered with a 12-ft high fruit cage (my neighbors have unprotected fruit trees that feed the wildlife and nothing else!)
I’ve even installed 3 paths, each 140 ft. long positioned between the five rows of trees and consisting of crushed-gravel-supported patio pavers to handle the voluminous fruit production starting year after next. (The orchard sits in a flood-irrigated pasture so there’s a dike between two of the rows of trees in case you’re wondering why not four paths.)
From this experience I assert there’s no substitute for the real thing. Besides, this is nature’s way and a much better way of handling the “mitigation of CO2”.
Nature’s way converts CO2 to oxygen and wood with fruit as a wonderful byproduct. What’s being proposed by these Artificial Trees is an embarrassment–first, they deny the benefits of CO2 (which adds an estimated $1.5 Trillion in worldwide foodstuff production annually) and seem to think they’re smarter than Mother Nature in the process. Their hubris is palpable!
I’ll be installing half a dozen park benches on which visitors may rest and contemplate the beauties of nature in my orchard. A cornucopia of delicious fruit will enhance the experience. I can’t imagine how horrible it would be to sit among an orchard of artificial plastic and metal “trees”, especially if cyanide is the only “fruit”.
Since my production of CO2 is enhancing the productivity of your orchard, I would appreciate a price cut when I order my first shipment from you.
You can come visit my orchard during late summer/early fall anytime starting 2017, which is when it should be producing far more than I can use. Zoning prevents me from having U-Pick customers and I’m too busy with my full-time job to pick all but my own consumption, but if you want to stop by and pick free fruit, ask Anthony for my email address and we’ll plan for the future.
That’s what this whole orchard effort is about.
Apple, peach, and cherry pits contain cyanide.
That’s true–and you can add apricot to your list. Seeds of those fruit varieties should not be consumed by humans.
But cyanide makes for a great fertilizer. From my years as a mining engineer I noticed that reclaimed heap leaching piles to which dilute cyanide solution was applied to extract gold and silver supported copious amounts of plant life. Cyanide is only a problem when, in solution, it’s no longer held within the protective alkalinity range or you breath the gas directly.
You may find, as I have, that hungry little critters are very adept at getting to ripe fruit. If you can get in there, those little guys can too.
Just sayin’.
Well reducing population would also reduce pollution in time.
I swear they are out to kill us. It might be a “slow kill” but it is still a kill. So many good ideas go undone for lack of funding while these type seem to proliferate like weeds.
Arnold could put this in one of his hypothetical garages!
That’s not where I was thinking he should put it.
The stuff you can spend gov’t tax money on to dream (study) about has no limit, but the tax payer’s ability to pay tax has a severe limit. And what is the USA federal debt right now?
John
$18 trillion. More than doubling in the last 7 years.
Like many things in life, just because one can do a thing, doesn’t mean one should.
joelo
Plus so very many!
Auto
If we get rid of enough CO2 we can elimnate all of those nasty O2 producing green plants that are the basis of food and life on this planet. Another proof that there is no cure for stupid. Just remember that half the people you know are below average.
Yet more “Alarmist think they know better than Nature” and don’t think everything through before spouting nonsense. Have to love their “fire, aim, ready” approach to the “catastrophe” they are pleading for us to believe. The whole alarmist approach implies we are more powerful than nature, that we are capable of destroying the Earth and all life on it (in this case, because of CO2). More like they are just trying to stroke their egos. No, CO2 is necessary for Life. Plants/Trees thrive in CO2 environments, with their byproduct (O2), and then we have the rise of animals that use Cellular Respiration. Hey, alarmist, cyanide, if you didn’t know, inhibits cellular respiration (last step if I recall). Lastly, are they wanting to destroy actual trees to be replaced by these artificial trees? Insane if that’s their thinking.
So. More Enviroprofiteer cunning. Anything to make a buck.
I think that I shall never see
a carbon-sequestration implement as beautiful as a tree.
Demo old soul
Plus lots, too, for you.
Auto
Wow. Really all one can say. Planting fake “trees” to save us from that demonic CO2.
To quote an old friend…:They’re loony-tunes, Bill!”
I’ve always liked Leonard Cohen’s take:
We are dazzled by the beauty of our weapons
Substitute the lunatic invention of your choice for “weapons”.
I am in agreement here. If CO2 cannot be economically extracted from flue gas where it is at a concentration of 25% and conveniently in one place for easy transport, then it will never be viable to extract it from the air at 400ppm. Get CCS sorted first, then worry about taking it from the air.
These novel microporous materials may still be very useful – possibly even by application in flue gas.
So you’re against letting additional CO2 be used to grow food, produce wood, and cause a beneficial greening of the planet?
Have you been so brainwashed by the CO2-control crowd you don’t see how you’ve become a useful tool for their carbon control (and hence population control) scheme?
Why?
My point is that artificial trees are a daft way to try to deal with CO2 reduction even if you wanted to do it. That seemed to be the subject of the post, so I was trying to stay on topic and not widen it out too much to more general issues. Do you think I have a point? IF you wanted to take out CO2, flue gas would be the best place to start.
I remember reading an article about a fish farm that was buying the warm water from the cooling tower of a power plant and using it to make life more comfortable for the fish it was growing.
I would think similar arrangements could be made with the owners of greenhouses for the flue gasses.
In several parts of the world the cooling water from power plants is piped to provide central heating for the local houses. When I lived in Sweden my apartment was nicely heated by the power station.
If he happens to be successful, the financial incentive to make methane for free might end up pushing atmospheric CO2 down to undesirable levels. Be careful what you wish for.
I make free methane every day…