From Dr. Benny Peiser and The GWPF:
China Pledges To Peak CO2 Emissions – But Only After ‘Around 2030’
Today, the Presidents of the United States and China announced their respective post-2020 actions on climate change, recognizing that these actions are part of the longer range effort to transition to low-carbon economies, mindful of the global temperature goal of 2℃. The United States intends to achieve an economy-wide target of reducing its emissions by 26%-28% below its 2005 level in 2025 and to make best efforts to reduce its emissions by 28%. China intends to achieve the peaking of CO2 emissions around 2030 and to make best efforts to peak early and intends to increase the share of non-fossil fuels in primary energy consumption to around 20% by 2030. Both sides intend to continue to work to increase ambition over time. —U.S.-China Joint Announcement on Climate Change, 12 November 2014
The joint statement by the United States and China on climate change, issued on Wednesday, is more important for its political and diplomatic symbolism than any practical effect it might have in reducing emissions. The statement reiterates policies China and the United States have been developing on their own and contains no new binding limits on greenhouse emissions. The joint announcement employs language very carefully. Throughout, the operative word is “intend” or “intention”, which makes clear the statement is not meant to create any new obligations. –John Kemp, Reuters, 12 November 2014
By adopting emissions targets on its own terms, China can influence negotiations leading up to the 2015 climate summit and head off pressure for tougher targets. China can point to its self-adopted targets as well as the principle of “common and differentiated responsibilities” to block any attempt to erect carbon tariffs or other border adjustment measures by the United States and the European Union to protect energy-intensive trade-exposed industries. Finally, the 2030 target should be fairly easy to meet. By then, the most manufacturing-intensive phase of China’s development will be complete and hundreds of millions more people will have been lifted into the middle class. Emissions are likely to stabilise by that date even without the joint statement. –John Kemp, Reuters, 12 November 2014
China is considering setting itself a new target to stop increasing overall emissions by 2025, according to Lord Stern of Brentford. He said that consumption of coal in China, which is the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, could reach a peak before 2020, much earlier than previously predicted. –Ben Webster, The Times, 25 September 2013
The man responsible for maintaining India’s power supply says he wants the country’s coal production to double within the next five years. Piyush Goyal, Minister of State for Power, Coal, New and Renewable energy, says India needs to dig twice as much coal as it does today if it is to meet its soaring energy demand. By 2019, it is expected to be consuming two trillion units of electricity annually, with one unit equalling one kilowatt hour. Describing coal as “an essential input for power”, Goyal said: “I see Coal India production doubling in the next five years. It makes about 500 million tonnes hopefully this year. We [will] do a billion tonnes in 2019.” –Alex Kirby, Climate News Network, 7 November 2014
Climate negotiations in the run-up to the global deal in Paris next year may not to be on predictable lines. After trade, the Narendra Modi government is now contemplating a strategic shift during talks, delinking India’s position from China. Although India will continue to insist that the global climate deal should have the principles of the UNFCCC (United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) and Kyoto Protocol that call for only rich nations to cut emissions while demanding money for poor countries to take voluntary action, it may now start questioning the idea of keeping the world’s highest carbon emitter China in the same league as the other developing countries. –Vishwa Mohan, Times of India, 5 November 2014
Crop producers and scientists hold deeply different views on climate change and its possible causes, a study by Purdue and Iowa State universities shows. Associate professor of natural resource social science Linda Prokopy and fellow researchers surveyed 6,795 people in the agricultural sector in 2011-2012 to determine their beliefs about climate change and whether variation in the climate is triggered by human activities, natural causes or an equal combination of both. 66 percent of corn producers surveyed said they believed climate change was occurring, with 8 percent pinpointing human activities as the main cause. —Purdue University, 11 November 2014
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I’m rummaging around looking for a reference, because I’m pretty durned sure I read that this was China’s plan anyway. In other words, China has agreed to do exactly what they were already doing anyway and nothing else.
What a joke.
Obama – the master of after the fact.
Obama – the dimmest bulb in the room.
Hang on a minute.
Didn’t “secret” negotiations start nine months ago?
My concerns would be in the under handed way he kept this from the American people he purports to represent.
If he is so happy to receive the plaudits on the world stage from the global warming fraudsters.
Why keep it secret from the American people who have to now pay the fraudsters?
If he and his band of snake oil sellers in government are so confident about the reasons for jacking up your energy prices andmI’m not just talking about electricity prices.
He should have told Americans what he was about to announce BEFORE your half term elections.
That he didn’t speaks volumes for what ever credibility he may have had.
You have a lame duck president for another two years, swanning around the world crowing like a rooster.
It is to say the least a tad embarrassing for America.
It has been embarrassing for the past 6 years.
It seems that in the formal meetings of the “world leaders”, emperor Obama, was separated from the world leaders, by the wives of the world leaders; out in left field literally.
Meanwhile during the meetings, the Chinese military was flying around a flock of their new Radar avoiding jet fighters, designed with Lockheed-Martin secrets, stolen by Chinese tech spies.
Yes I believe China showed the Emperor, just who is boss, with his version of the Japanese exhortation; “That will be quite difficult to achieve.” translates to: “Dream on dummy; no way in hell that is going to happen.”
And the dame who fronts for the EPA is gloating on MSNBC that “this is not a treaty” so doesn’t require Senate ratification, it just an EPA regulatory matter.
That means of course, that the new Congress, can override, via the defund, the EPA, if the lame duck Congress is stupid enough to ok this nonsense.
If you think ebola and ISIS are world problems, you ain’t seen nothing compared to world energy starvation.
Once “renewables” feel the burden of coming out of the subsidy shadows, and have to stand on their own two feet, as will the TESLA Motors of the world, people will wake up and realize that renewable energy sources, are not sustainable, and they never will be.
Actually, Clinton gave it to them for campaign cash.
Gee george, most of us who remember the 70s (even though I was a kid during the “energy crisis”) are completely aware that “renewables” and “sustainables” are never going to work. Seems to me that those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history…. have climate degrees.
philjourdan November 12, 2014 at 11:27 am
Obama – the master of after the fact.
++++++++
Leading from Behind? Agreed.
Or leading with his.
Yes, Mark. You’ve pretty much nailed it. China, which, has an energy plan promises to stick to their plan (if it is convenient to do so). The US which has nothing remotely resembling a plan promises to keep on making promises.
Environmentalists can now, at long last, celebrate seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
They also promised that they ‘intend’ to refrain from laughing at Obama in public too much.
Ok, can’t wait for the Iranian Nuke deal….
S/
Already happened with Russia.
Russia to build Iran atomic reactors at Bushehr
Solar energy enters the global system at a relatively fixed rate. Energy of a certain wavelength excites CO2 molecule electrons which subtract the work function and emit energy in a wave length that agitates (not excites) water vapor molecules (like the microwave) which heats the atmosphere in general which transfers that heat to the surface & oceans which release more CO2 and loopy-de-loop. With more CO2, more energy is absorbed leaving less to leave the system and more to stay behind heating up the atmosphere.
If air were any good at transferring heat to water nobody in Phoenix would have to heat their swimming pools, they’d all rise to 105 F and have to be cooled. The latent heat of evaporation keeps that from happening. The oceans can handle the hiatus heat by increasing their evaporation/cloud formation .001%.
IPCC AR5 admits in TS.6 they have a poor understanding of the magnitude of the CO2 loop forcing especially over land, and high uncertainty about the water vapor/precipitation cycle, and a whole list of other rather critical known & unknown unknowns, like the ice sheets/caps, oceans below 2,000 meters, etc.
Whatever mechanism raised global temperatures during the first half of the twentieth century, the hiatus makes it abundantly clear it wasn’t CO2, not then, not now, not tomorrow.
Coincidence equals cause plus an anti-coal agenda stirred together with egos, money, politics, and voila, the AGW/CCC beast lumbered forth.
I grew up near Phoenix. I can tell you that for 9am swim lessons, the water was very cold.
It’s the sun, stupid. I also preferred afternoon lessons, in Central Ontario.
CO2 change has no significant effect on climate. The two drivers that do explain the ups and downs of climate change since before 1900 with 95% correlation and credible average global temperatures back to 1610 are included in the paper at http://agwunveiled.blogspot.com along with an explanation of why CO2 change has no significant effect.
Is President Obama really that gullible?
Yes. Obviously. If you like your climate, you keep your climate…
And the cost for your climate won’t go up even one thin dime. You can even keep your climatologist, if you wnat.
I thought we are too stupid to know the facts about climate…or was that ACA?
You have to ask?
There have been so many Obama actions which are destructive to the US, that many are now asking: “is this planned and wanton destruction?”
His parents were Communists. His grandparents were Communists. His principle mentor during his youth was a radical Communist. The person that introduced him to Chicago politics was a radical, violent Communist and (former) terrorist. L’Internationale was played at Obama campaign stops.
Here’s the new China/US deal in a nutshell:
Obama: We will continue to dismantle our carbon fuel- based economy.
Xi: We will curb our rate of CO2 emission increase after 2030.
No. His interest is in damaging the US, transferring money to his friends, and gaining power for himself and his fellow travelers.
No, he wanted something, anything to take the public eye off of the recent election results
No, his interests and goals just differ from ours.
here. Xie announced that they’d eventually set this emission peak date back in July. I tell you, these people aren’t negotiating a darned thing, they’re following their script to the letter.
Here’s another one, from June of this year.
Gonna go way out on a limb here and guess that ‘sometime after 2030’ is when they’re expecting China’s population to tank as a result of 20th century birth limits.
LeeHarvey,
I’m also betting that China is thinking that by 2030 the West might finally have come to its senses over CAGW and China won’t have to do anything. I wish I shared their optimism.
Bingo, Lee Harvey. Google China population projections and it peaks around 2028. They’re promising to increase the carbon intensity of each Chinese person forever.
That’s an interesting idea. I have no idea if this is accurate, but a google search on the age distribution of the Chinese population gave me this, looks like the bulge is in the 40-49 year old age group. They should live 75 or 76years on average according to wikipedia, so they’ve got 25-30 years to go, naw, looks like we’ll miss 2030.
You must remember the key word, “AFTER!” By that any timeline fits.
Looking at the policy side of this for a second, is this agreement intended to be a treaty? If so, it would have to be approved by the US Senate. I doubt that’s the plan, in which case it’s nothing more than a statement of “good intentions”.
I posted this on the “Gone Fishing” thread but I’ll repeat it here for relevance:
This is a win-win all round.
~China gets to show good public spirit that will be paid back in some way – good for them.
~President Obama gets to show to this fanbase that he can still stand up for the causes they voted for – good for him in his coming retirement,
~The US Senate gets to vote this down – good for the USA.
~The EU gets its opportunities to diplomatically back away, reduced – Good for China and the USA, relatively
You’re assuming that this won’t get rammed through the lame duck senate. They have until January. What a perfect way for the lame duck senators to give the electorate a big fat middle finger.
My Tucson pool heats up due to direct sunlight absorption. By March and into April, the daytime air temps are reaching in the mid-80F range, but the pool stays stuck in the 60’s simply because the air heats up much faster than the water in the sunlight, but the days are not yet long enough to drive a strong warming until May.
The air temp only has, at best, a very minor heat input effect. Along with relative humidity and wind, air temperature is just one of the set of variables that drives some pool heat loss by evaporative cooling and removal of water from my pool. But my pool cools by radiative heat loss at night, as I do not use a cover. Only cloudy nights, I note that the pool temp drop is less than it is on clear nights, just like the air temp, again due to surface radiative cooling in Tucson dry desert air. On cloudy days, the temp rise is much lower than on a completely cloudless day. The diurnal ratio between night and daylight determine the temperature regime in which the diurnal temp changes move, along with clouds. The pool pump keep the layers (10 feet deep-end) well mixed during the day, but it is off at night, which prevents layer mixing and reduces heat loss at night.
The problem of course is we humans assume that the air temp is primarily driving the pool water temp since we cannot uncouple the seasonal air temps from the length of days since that is also tied to the season. That is the false impression.
Harold….treaty ratification requires a super majority to pass. Harry doesn’t have enough D votes.
Probably the best thing that could happen to the Republicans is the run off for Mary Landrieu. That will hold Reid in check for a month, and by then, it will probably be too late.
“Best Effort” – that says it all.
GOP unimpressed:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-12/boehner-mcconnell-blast-obamas-faux-us-china-climate-deal
The only reason America needs to be seen to do a deal is because Russia has struck two major gas deals recently.
Russia and China won’t stop at that.
In fact there’s no reason at all for America to be seen doing anything.
Obama is just his usual mentally ill self. (I came to the conclusion that the ruling caste of the West is neither stupid nor evil but rather clinically insane.)
Reminiscent of government stated budget cuts. They always mean reducing future increases.
A side note that is kinda OT……
Did anyone notice the Anthropogenic Commet Change that just happned?
Just sayin, what could possibly go wrong with potentially altering a commets eliptical orbit by landing on it?
http://rosetta.jpl.nasa.gov
This deal is meant to be a counterpoint in arguments on capitol hill that “China isn’t doing anything, so why should we?” That’s its main purpose. It will carry some weight among fence-sitters.
I can’t see how. The issue is very polarizing, so I doubt there are any significant numbers of fence-sitters. And once it’s clear that China has a free pass until 2030 with no limits whatever, I don’t see anyone being very impressed with this “deal”.
Until AFTER 2030. Say, 2130?
IAC, I see CO2 as an unmitigated boon. Go, Go, Gadget! Given scrubbing, burn as much coal as possible. Just like India.
Just following what the Chinese say and do in the press has lead me to the conclusion that they are masters at gaming the system and taking the Western climate hawks for a ride. Remember the scandal on fluorocarbons? The Chinese would build fluorocarbon plants and then shut them down to get the carbon credits from the European CDM markets. They made much more money that way than they would from the sale of the chemicals. The European eventually shut that down, but not before the Chinese walked away with a lot of cool cash.
Chinas move is smart politics. Delay any decision until the problem is no longer relevant.
In 2030 the world will be a colder place and this warming hysteria will be forgotten. Nobody will ever blame China for not keeping their word.
Mmmmmm. China could always ramp up co2 emissions in 2029 and 2030 by artificially setting ablaze fields of coal for example, thus giving it plenty of room to continue where it really left off. 😉
So really we’ve hung about for 18 years to discover that the temp record on average has moved less than a knats scrote. That’s despite the dreaded minor gas increasing. It’s a matter of observation rather than p*ss poor pieces of software guessing at multi scenarios.
The worst scenario is too cold and these MF’s have not even considered that as evidenced by the decreasing spare margin for power generation in UK for one.
My guess using brainware is that in 15 yrs from now the temperature record will likely still be similar to now, with a caveat that it cold so easily get too cold on the way. God help us!
Well, at least Philae “landed softly” as opposed to creating a big expensive hole in the nucleus of 67P/c-g.
Heck of an achievement for ESA – just getting there, have most things working (the rocket on the lander fizzled out. It was supposed to hold the lander to the surface while the harpoons and ice screws did their work. Apparently wasn’t needed.
The temp in Pueblo CO is 13 F today….burrrrrrr!
Mike
Temperature in Tucson right now, 79F and sunny. Just Lovely. Going to wash the car in the driveway in a few minutes. Then go for a run.
I had severe schadenfreude in that the Boys at NCAR-Boulder are enjoying some more Global Warming. Currently Boulder, Colorado is -16C and light snow, with 15cm of snow forecast by tomorrow, with a low of -25C… and it’s not even mid-November yet!!! The Boys of NCAR are likely rooting for Global Warming for more than just their reputation, but for their heating bills as well.
Until we see a few hundred nuclear plants under construction – dirt being moved – it is too soon to talk about “peak” CO2 emissions.
~~~~~
I do not have the authority to say what the USA will do in 2030. Of course, neither does the soon to be ex-POTUS. I can say that my “carbon footprint” will be quite small, getting smaller, and soon enough sequestered.
Bottom line : Don’t buy US coal. The result will be US coal stocks to fall (also short selling) and the people who actually know what the climate will be, will buying the coal stocks back at rock bottom prices. So, if some people think it is going to get cold, who do you think they will be selling coal to? The person who is willing to pay top dollar or Yuan.
Obama ‘negotiating’ with China is like a chihuahua defending you aganst a pack of wolves. It’s cute and all, but man does it make you laugh… Also a nice small tasty snack to the Chinese…
Note that the Chinese cut a large Gas deal with Russia. So, continue growing and using coal Like Crazy for 15 years as the pipelines are all built and filled, then cut over to Russian gas and call it ‘for the environment’… all while convincing the POTUS to kill our coal power as rapidly as he can and hobble the competition.
China offered a face saving agreement for Obama and nothing more. They played him for the fool once again. The context states that China will base reduction efforts on 2030 emissions….which means it’s not only business as usual for them but now they are incented to increase CO2 output to increase their baseline. That is if they ever even intend to reduce anything but particulates and other smog inducing emissions and I doubt they are. Just like the last climate agreement with China the press put lipstick on it and touted a win.
China didn’t play Oblowme for a fool – he volunteered.
Amazing agreement to reduce CO2 emissions, where China basically agrees to keep increasing them for another 16 years! LOL
No limit on the rate of increase to this “peak”. A pretty open ended deal. They could build 5000 coal fired plants that they don’t even need by 2030, run them for a year and then mothball them after the base emissions are established. We are only fledglings in the socialist propaganda game compared to China.
Fossil fuels and nuclear are the only way to build cheap and reliable base load capacity. Obama and Kerry just agreed to unilaterally disarm the US economy.
The Chinese agreed not to stop us.
We can only hope the GOP Congress prevents such a catastrophe.
An agreement with targets in the future, long after the two principals are long removed from public office. Perfect. Obama gets to keep his disgruntled billionaire donors pleased without any action.
The Chinese leader may still be in power at that time. If he is, well, they have ways to rewrite history.
Laughable. Our lame-duck chump-in-chief thinks China is sincere while they snicker behind his back and hack our commercial, government and military computer networks…
Obola didn’t get taken, we did. He is snickering behind our backs. Our utility bills will “necessarily skyrocket”, not his as we will support him and his spawn forever.
Here’s how the negotiations actually went:
Obama: How about you cut emissions and stop cyberstealing U.S. military tech?
Xi: How about we keep expanding our coal use and demo the stealth jet tech we stole from you.
Obama: OK, how about you cut emissions?
Xi: How about we keep doing exactly what we want to, but don’t bother to correct you when you tell the press you got a deal on Climate?
Obama: I’ll take it!
Historic deal my butt.